[BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS)

[alexius89]

Is there any spreadsheet updated by Users or any charts which shows the estimated next difficulty?

When will be the rise of the next difficulty stage? (date)

[eltopo]

Is there any spreadsheet updated by Users or any charts which shows the estimated next difficulty?

When will be the rise of the next difficulty stage? (date)

Have a look here: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/

The date of the next diff change depends on network hashrate, at the moment it changes every 12-14 days.

[Deprived]

Sold   941
Swapped   0
Total   941
Price   0.049418
Total   46.502338
Less Fee   46.40933332
Man Fee   1.39228

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1054.565051
14362 LTC-ATF.B1    143.62000000
Coinlenders CD    200.45554343
Just-Dice Balance    101.41844995
TOTAL ASSETS    1,500.05904443
   
Outstanding MINING   31472
Outstanding SELLING   31472
Outstanding PURCHASE   372
Effective Units   31844
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   21,335,329
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00011786
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00589288
100 days (Forced Close)    0.01178577
365 days (Buyback)    0.04301806
405 days (IPO)    0.04773236
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.04714308
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.04832165
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,496.30598416
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.04698863
Days Dividend Post Div   398.69
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,496.30598416
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.04698863
PURCHASE selling price    0.04933806
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.04604886

[Deprived]

Sold 500 of our LTC-ATF.B1 on the market.  After converting to BTC DMS received 6.32415 BTC.  I'm not trading for DMS but I'm not going to turn down free money for it.  It would take nearly a year to make that profit back in 0.6% per week dividends - so we'll let someone else do the waiting and take the profit now.

[vandinn]

You are absolutely right, thank you for doing that.

[Deprived]

Here's a little bit of math that some of you may find of interest.  Let's look at what happened if anyone bought PURCHASE at the start and just held it.

They'd have bought initially when price was 0.065258
Allowing for 0.2% transaction fee that would have cost them 0.065388516

In total they'd now have received  0.01787841 in dividends (the total of all SELLING and MINING dividends to date).

PURCHASE is currently selling at 0.049338
They could put their PURCHASE back up for sale at 0.049337 and reasonably expect to sell it (strangely there's been a few hundred PURCHASE sold - all of them into bids at a lot less than just below my Ask price).

Less transaction fees that would get them 0.049238326
If we add to that the dividends to date we get a total of 0.067116736

If we subtract the initial purchase price we get a profit of 0.001858736
Which is 2.848% in the 22 days the fund has been running - or over 0.9% per week.

The return from doing that is likely to fall (as new sales of PURCHASE represent an ever decreasing percentage of current outstanding ones) but it does go to show that there's quite a few ways people could have made a profit from DMS.

[carnitastaco]

Here's a little bit of math that some of you may find of interest.  Let's look at what happened if anyone bought PURCHASE at the start and just held it.

They'd have bought initially when price was 0.065258
Allowing for 0.2% transaction fee that would have cost them 0.065388516

In total they'd now have received  0.01787841 in dividends (the total of all SELLING and MINING dividends to date).

PURCHASE is currently selling at 0.049338
They could put their PURCHASE back up for sale at 0.049337 and reasonably expect to sell it (strangely there's been a few hundred PURCHASE sold - all of them into bids at a lot less than just below my Ask price).

Less transaction fees that would get them 0.049238326
If we add to that the dividends to date we get a total of 0.067116736

If we subtract the initial purchase price we get a profit of 0.001858736
Which is 2.848% in the 22 days the fund has been running - or over 0.9% per week.

The return from doing that is likely to fall (as new sales of PURCHASE represent an ever decreasing percentage of current outstanding ones) but it does go to show that there's quite a few ways people could have made a profit from DMS.

whats the math on if they bought and held asicminer the same day?   jk jk

[Keven]

I am Chinese, DMS.SELLING is very difficult to understand how it works (language issue). How calculated 0.00378802(dividen)? Would you Lists the equation?

Does this help?

If it doesn't, there are at least two different posts previously in this thread where it is explained in an easy way, you could try going back and searching for them...

0.05104895（Ａｓｓｅｔ/ｕｎｉｔ）－0.043105400（ｗｉｔｈ ｎｅｗ ＭＩＮＩＮＧ ｄｉｖ）=0.00794095（ＳＥＬＬＩＮＧ ｄｉｖ），If right, that promote me .
I read the previous thread now.And I did it allmost everyday.
Thank you for the adviced 

[Deprived]

Sold   623
Swapped   0
Total   623
Price   0.049338
Total   30.737574
Less Fee   30.67609885
Man Fee   0.920282966

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1086.891966
13862 LTC-ATF.B1    138.62000000
Coinlenders CD    200.58256134
Just-Dice Balance    101.29424563
TOTAL ASSETS    1,527.38877305
   
Outstanding MINING   32066
Outstanding SELLING   32066
Outstanding PURCHASE   401
Effective Units   32467
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   21,335,329
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00011786
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00589288
100 days (Forced Close)    0.01178577
365 days (Buyback)    0.04301806
405 days (IPO)    0.04773236
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.04714308
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.04832165
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,523.56228744
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.04692649
Days Dividend Post Div   398.16
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,523.56228744
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.04692649
PURCHASE selling price    0.04927281
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.04598796

[Deprived]

Sold 500 more LTC-ATF.B1 at about 10-15% over face value (about as low as I'll sell ours).  Just-Dice has made good profit as well.  Those two together (plus slight gain from a few sales of PURCHASE) almost covered today's MINING dividend.

Sold   437
Swapped   0
Total   437
Price    0.049273
Total   21.532301
Less Fee   21.4892364
Man Fee   0.644677092

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1109.555951
13362 LTC-ATF.B1    133.62000000
Coinlenders CD    200.71804498
Just-Dice Balance    103.75225179
TOTAL ASSETS    1,547.64624747
   
Outstanding MINING   32473
Outstanding SELLING   32473
Outstanding PURCHASE   431
Effective Units   32904
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   21,335,329
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00011786
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00589288
100 days (Forced Close)    0.01178577
365 days (Buyback)    0.04301806
405 days (IPO)    0.04773236
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.04714308
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.04832165
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,543.76825805
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.04691734
Days Dividend Post Div   398.08
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,543.76825805
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.04691734
PURCHASE selling price    0.04926321
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.04597900

[baloo_kiev]

Hi!

How long does it typically take to convert PURCHASE?

[Deprived]

Hi!

How long does it typically take to convert PURCHASE?

Depends whether I'm awake or asleep.  I check regularly for transfers in and do transfers out soon as I notice.  You sent whilst I was asleep - so had a longer wait.

[Mabsark]

Hi!

How long does it typically take to convert PURCHASE?

Depends whether I'm awake or asleep.  I check regularly for transfers in and do transfers out soon as I notice.  You sent whilst I was asleep - so had a longer wait.

So when do you usually sleep? What time zone are you in? Also, have you looked into automating the process?

[Deprived]

Hi!

How long does it typically take to convert PURCHASE?

Depends whether I'm awake or asleep.  I check regularly for transfers in and do transfers out soon as I notice.  You sent whilst I was asleep - so had a longer wait.

So when do you usually sleep? What time zone are you in? Also, have you looked into automating the process?

I'm in the UK, so currently GMT+1.

I've considered automating it but there's not really enough volume to justify it at present.  I'm currently mainly working on my website which should be up in about a week (it's already functional just needs content added and some tidying up).  Once that's done I'll be focussing back on interacting with the sites (to pull data for my website, to do some basic trading/price maintenance for me and also to automate transfers - as there's other things I have planned which could also use similar automation).

[Deprived]

Sold   959
Swapped   0
Total   959
Price   0.049263
Total   47.243217
Less Fee   47.14873057
Man Fee   1.414461917

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1154.302956
13100 LTC-ATF.B1    131.00000000
Coinlenders CD    200.84834856
Just-Dice Balance    103.93539478
TOTAL ASSETS    1,590.08669961
   
Outstanding MINING   33501
Outstanding SELLING   33501
Outstanding PURCHASE   362
Effective Units   33863
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   21,335,329
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00011786
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00589288
100 days (Forced Close)    0.01178577
365 days (Buyback)    0.04301806
405 days (IPO)    0.04773236
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.04714308
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.04832165
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,586.09568467
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.04683861
Days Dividend Post Div   397.42
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,586.09568467
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.04683861
PURCHASE selling price    0.04918054
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.04590183

[Mabsark]

I'm still surprised how big the demand for Mining is. Selling gives at least double the dividend (for expected difficulty change), so its price should be at least double that of mining...  

Why get paid from one of them when you can get paid from both? I think you'll find that selling will shoot up in price as dividend day approaches and people switch from holding MINING to holding SELLING.

[Deprived]

Sold   635
Swapped   0
Total   635
Price   0.049181
Total   31.229935
Less Fee   31.16747513
Man Fee   0.935024254

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1180.544338
13100 LTC-ATF.B1    131.00000000
Coinlenders CD    200.97626972
Just-Dice Balance    104.18817092
TOTAL ASSETS    1,616.70877890
   
Outstanding MINING   33860
Outstanding SELLING   33860
Outstanding PURCHASE   638
Effective Units   34498
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   21,335,329
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00011786
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00589288
100 days (Forced Close)    0.01178577
365 days (Buyback)    0.04301806
405 days (IPO)    0.04773236
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.04714308
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.04832165
   
NAV Post MINING Div    1,612.64292433
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.04674598
Days Dividend Post Div   396.63
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    1,612.64292433
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.04674598
PURCHASE selling price    0.04908328
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.04581106

[odolvlobo]

I'm still surprised how big the demand for Mining is. Selling gives at least double the dividend (for expected difficulty change), so its price should be at least double that of mining... 

I think you don't quite understand how this works. It doesn't make sense to compare the dividends. While the value of MINING is based on its dividend payments, the value of SELLING is not.

[coco23]

I'm still surprised how big the demand for Mining is. Selling gives at least double the dividend (for expected difficulty change), so its price should be at least double that of mining... 

I think you don't quite understand how this works. It doesn't make sense to compare the dividends. While the value of MINING is based on its dividend payments, the value of SELLING is not.

Depends on the point of view. Eventually, 100% of the asset will be given back as a dividend. So if Selling keeps on giving back more than double the amount than Mining it should be priced accordingly. Let me know if I got sth wring with this thinking.

[odolvlobo]

I'm still surprised how big the demand for Mining is. Selling gives at least double the dividend (for expected difficulty change), so its price should be at least double that of mining...  

I think you don't quite understand how this works. It doesn't make sense to compare the dividends. While the value of MINING is based on its dividend payments, the value of SELLING is not.

Depends on the point of view. Eventually, 100% of the asset will be given back as a dividend. So if Selling keeps on giving back more than double the amount than Mining it should be priced accordingly. Let me know if I got sth wring with this thinking.

I don't agree with the valuation based on dividends because the value of SELLING would be the same even if it paid no dividends. But I do agree that SELLING is worth more than its price.

And perhaps the only way to sway people looking only at MINING dividends is to compare those dividends to SELLING dividends.