Bottlecaps 2.1 UPDATE REQUIRED - HARDFORK JULY 4 2014 to 200% Annual PoS

[eBit]

So the "goal" is to run off all the miners for this coin?

Is this going to be the way it is going forward?

No the network doesnt have the stake to keep this going. Everyone was advised to stop POS minting and the pools were as well. The pools hold a lot of coins as well as cryptsy. When they all fired up their wallets again it was just a perfect storm really. It will calm down very soon I believe

It is true this is technically normal operation for the code parameters. But the min/max stake age and many other factors prevent blocks from being made this fast under normal operation.

It really does show why these parameters need to be changed in the long run and I will be doing so over the next few months. We should see the network start to relax tonight if im correct with my understanding

Seeing 83% orphans right now at Multipool and 90% at Coinmine. In the meantime, is the network still generating ~60 POW blocks/min or are we getting much less?

Any chance that the person maintaining this block explorer can restore it?
http://bot.webboise.com:2760/chain/Bottlecaps?count=20

[1714060847]

1714060847

[1714060847]

1714060847

[1714060847]

1714060847

[eBit]

Is coinchoose on the right chain?  They're showing almost 4x the profitability of my calculations at the moment.

I wouldn't rely on coinchoose. Their profitability has always been slightly overstated on this coin in my opinion.

What percentage of orphans are your calculations showing?

[flound1129]

Is coinchoose on the right chain?  They're showing almost 4x the profitability of my calculations at the moment.

I wouldn't rely on coinchoose. Their profitability has always been slightly overstated on this coin in my opinion.

What percentage of orphans are your calculations showing?

Yeah I realized the discrepancy was due to the orphan rate.

[Lauda]

Is coinchoose on the right chain?  They're showing almost 4x the profitability of my calculations at the moment.

They are taking into account the orphan rates right now.

[rav3n_pl]

Looks like POS mining is fixed: all my POW blocks are orphaned by POS ones...
Switching machine to another currency.

[paulsltc123]

Yeah in the last 36 hours the orphans rate has been EXTREMELY high...was on Coinmine for a while and they are getting mostly orphans yesterday and still today and trying some solo and also orphaning many as well..what is up with this all of a sudden you think?

[Lordofhell]

Ok, i`m trying to mine solo again. I found three blocks and three transactions have but in wallet i see only 10 coins. Why?

[ISAWHIM]

Solo-mining, I am only getting about 36% orphans, average, over the past 24 hours.

Remember, the POS allowance is based off the total generated coins, so with all the days of non-POS, there are a lot of holes to be filled. It should not take more than a few days to normalize.

If you want to help alleviate the issue, simply mine another coin, but keep this wallet open and unlocked, so you create all the POS you were denied. I don't mind the orphans, that just makes the price I have to ask for, higher.

Like I said, don't settle for less than 0.0005 BTC/CAP... And stay firm on your order. Buying the few short-sales listed for easy coins. (Easier than mining... If you mine another coin, and trade that for BTC to buy CAP... There are plenty of overvalued coins you can mine for a quick turn-around to coins of actual value. Leave them with the debt of holding an overpriced coin, while you consume the undervalued coins.)

Don't mine just to mine, mine so you have something to trade with, to get what you actually want.

[ISAWHIM]

Ok, i`m trying to mine solo again. I found three blocks and three transactions have but in wallet i see only 10 coins. Why?

Two were orphaned... Eg, you didn't find them before another block was found, and the other block was accepted by more people first, over your block.

Eg, you found one at 12:00:15 and the other block by another miner was found at 12:00:10... and it had 6 confirms before yours got 5... You were just too far away to be "updated", as the block navigated the rooms. When that one got 6 confirms, your wallet removed your invalid coins from the "pending" status, and didn't deposit them into your wallet. Thus, you lost that lotto-drawing.

Remember, your miner talks to your own wallet faster than it talks to the network. After your miner finds a valid block, it passes it to the wallet, which then checks to see if it is actually valid, then it attempts to pass it to the network... then it has to be checked by 6 other wallets on the network, before any other block is sent from anyone else... That all takes time.

That is why I use a 64 workload size... I submit found blocks faster. Because I am not waiting 4x longer for a 256 workload to "finish", before I can submit it to my wallet for confirmation. Plus, workload 64 makes my miners run faster, on average. (I have low RAM. Like only 2GB total.)

[John Eden]

Caps now accepted on http://www.igotspots.com/cap.html Buy gold and silver with your caps!

[paulsltc123]

Do we know why the two main pools mining CAPs at 40-50Mh/s are getting over 75% orphans? It was never like this before. You could mine 10mh for a day and barely get at couple hundred coins at this rate. Why is this happening now? Efficiency before was like 95%+ and now has bottomed out since the update. Tell me this wasnt supposed to happen, right?

Mullick or Isawhim, wanna take a stab at explaining this for everyone?

[mullick]

Do we know why the two main pools mining CAPs at 40-50Mh/s are getting over 75% orphans? It was never like this before. You could mine 10mh for a day and barely get at couple hundred coins at this rate. Why is this happening now? Efficiency before was like 95%+ and now has bottomed out since the update. Tell me this wasnt supposed to happen, right?

Mullick or Isawhim, wanna take a stab at explaining this for everyone?

Well I havent had time to sit down and look at it tonight but my belief is this.

Users were urged to turn stake off in their wallets with the reservebalance= setting for a period of about 2 weeks. Also cryptsy wallets were not open for 2 weeks. Since the cryptsy wallets receive a lot of transactions as do the pools that were down ect they were gaining large amounts of stake the entire time,  2+weeks worth. When the stake system was fixed and the wallets reopened and started minting the network exploded with stake. POS blocks are being generated so quickly they are orphaning them selves and POW blocks. The Pos difficulty isnt rising because this is "Normal" for the parameters originally set in the code.

The good news is this amount of stake simply cannot last it will soon run out once everyone stops competing for the POS blocks and we will see long stretches without stake again. Other parameters prevent stake from building up like this under average conditions so It will go down. I will be patching these issues and changing around stake setting over the next few weeks / months. But this shouldnt last long and I expect it to calm down very soon.

Also I will hopefully working with the original developer soon to get the checkpointing system up

[paulsltc123]

Do we know why the two main pools mining CAPs at 40-50Mh/s are getting over 75% orphans? It was never like this before. You could mine 10mh for a day and barely get at couple hundred coins at this rate. Why is this happening now? Efficiency before was like 95%+ and now has bottomed out since the update. Tell me this wasnt supposed to happen, right?

Mullick or Isawhim, wanna take a stab at explaining this for everyone?

Well I havent had time to sit down and look at it tonight but my belief is this.

Users were urged to turn stake off in their wallets with the reservebalance= setting for a period of about 2 weeks. Also cryptsy wallets were not open for 2 weeks. Since the cryptsy wallets receive a lot of transactions as do the pools that were down ect they were gaining large amounts of stake the entire time,  2+weeks worth. When the stake system was fixed and the wallets reopened and started minting the network exploded with stake. POS blocks are being generated so quickly they are orphaning them selves and POW blocks. The Pos difficulty isnt rising because this is "Normal" for the parameters originally set in the code.

The good news is this amount of stake simply cannot last it will soon run out once everyone stops competing for the POS blocks and we will see long stretches without stake again. Other parameters prevent stake from building up like this under average conditions so It will go down. I will be patching these issues and changing around stake setting over the next few weeks / months. But this shouldnt last long and I expect it to calm down very soon.

Also I will hopefully working with the original developer soon to get the checkpointing system up

Thanks for the quick reply and info. Makes sense. Just hope you're right that this will catch up and level off (very) soon. Right now blocks also being found 2-4 times a minute which is crazy fast and high even though difficulty is properly adjusting and there aren't any wild swings in network hashrates. Pretty stable actually. I'm willing to bet though that there are many who haven't even noticed yet that they're barely getting 20-40% of coin payout estimates right now due to the crazy high orphan rates...but I'm sure you're right and this will self correct very soon.
Glad to be back on exchange and at decent rate too..and I bet it will rise nicely as well...

[paulsltc123]

There hasn't been another fork due to this has there? I'm seeing some strange numbers from the pools and peers...varying difficulties too as well as block numbers that aren't adding up at the moment....hope I'm wrong...

[mullick]

Seems to be just the turbulance described above. Just a longer string of it. I noticed it as well after I read that but everything is on the same page now again

EDIT: it keeps working back to POS blocks 3 or 4 POW blocks will be generated before a POS block enters the network with a block # lower and orphans those due to superior trustscore. POS just isnt designed to work this fast


Much better than the previous logs....

Code:

REORGANIZE
REORGANIZE: Disconnect 8 blocks; 0f029e71f0f90d0ab8e9..00000000883f0ff0a52e
REORGANIZE: Connect 1 blocks; 0f029e71f0f90d0ab8e9..4aae74886be84dda2a2b
CTxMemPool::accept() : accepted 5d348b8e71 (poolsz 1)
REORGANIZE: done
SetBestChain: new best=4aae74886be84dda2a2b  height=99330  trust=38004552046  date=09/01/13 08:07:41

[Jazkal]

With POS being the only blocks being granted, are transactions being included in the blockchain? Or does it require POW blocks to include transactions?

[John Eden]

Yes PoS moves the network as well. Give it a whirl blocks moving along fine.

[Jazkal]

Yes PoS moves the network as well. Give it a whirl blocks moving along fine.

Bottlecaps is a MAJOR BROKEN coin right now. Thankfully we aren't seeing forks, but there are ZERO mined blocks being found. You should tell all miners to stop mining, as they are wasting the power used, because they will not be paid for the work done, and they aren't helping in securing the network. With v1.5, you now have a coin that is 100% being powered by PoS, no need for miners anymore.

[Balthazar]

Too many panic from nothing. Nothing is "broken" here, everything works as it should work with such incredible settings.

[murraypaul]

Too many panic from nothing. Nothing is "broken" here, everything works as it should work with such incredible settings.

Stats from multipool:

99,803   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:40 PM
99,801   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:39 PM
99,797   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:38 PM
99,796   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:34 PM
99,795   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 3:31 PM
99,793   Orphan   Burksdb   Sep 01 3:30 PM
99,792   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:29 PM
99,789   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:25 PM
99,779   30   jopeto   Sep 01 3:17 PM
99,778   Orphan   barom   Sep 01 3:16 PM
99,774   35   barom   Sep 01 3:12 PM
99,768   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 3:08 PM
99,767   Orphan   drvdrv   Sep 01 3:04 PM
99,766   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 2:53 PM
99,756   Orphan   pidu   Sep 01 2:46 PM
99,751   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:45 PM
99,746   Orphan   TomSelleck89   Sep 01 2:44 PM
99,744   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:44 PM
99,743   Orphan   Burksdb   Sep 01 2:37 PM
99,739   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:32 PM
99,738   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 2:28 PM
99,737   Orphan   omalakas   Sep 01 2:28 PM
99,727   82   jopeto   Sep 01 2:20 PM
99,714   95   TomSelleck89   Sep 01 2:11 PM
99,712   97   Tb75   Sep 01 2:10 PM
99,702   107   Tb75   Sep 01 2:03 PM
99,696   113   jopeto   Sep 01 1:59 PM
99,690   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 1:54 PM
99,689   Orphan   zojcep   Sep 01 1:54 PM
99,686   Orphan   jopeto   Sep 01 1:51 PM

This is working as expected?
Why would any miners point hashrate at this coin if it is just being wasted?