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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2760182 times)
bitcoinpaul
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March 08, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
 #41861

Random thought: If we cannot guarantee network spread for security reasons with Nxt now, how can we have security with many more blockchains?
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March 08, 2014, 11:45:44 AM
 #41862

1) Are these parallel chains fully customizable? What I mean by is that can the parallel chain creator specify fees (even set them to zero) or block timer? Can these chains be changed in such a way that Aliases can expire and/or AM's not expire? I assume this should be possible as long as people are willing to deal with the changes and secure the parallel chain.
2) How can currencies be traded across chains? Will all chains use NXT as the "base" currency?

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.
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March 08, 2014, 11:46:58 AM
 #41863

Not quite yet. Parallel chains can pretend to have reached 1440 blocks and further bloat the master chain.

What restrictions do we impose on the slave chains, that can be verified without looking at the slave chain itself?

Every slave chain can be checkpointed only once a day if it has 1440 block/day rate.
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March 08, 2014, 11:52:12 AM
 #41864

I didn't understand what buyer/seller verified means.
What I mean is that when you are leaving feedback via AM, you will be required to enter a Tx id, where the sender (buyer's) account must match your account # and the receiving account must match the account where you are sending the feedback AM (the sellers account).  If those match up, the feedback is sent via AM.

I'm wondering if escrow/reputation is the best model for the SR type use case, and if there could be an alternative model.
Would the names of products and quantities sold be publicly available on the blockchain? Somehow I think this will draw unwanted attention.
Nothing would show up on the blockchain except the amounts of Nxt and the public feedback, all other messages would be encrypted.

How would disputes be resolved?  Outsiders can't know if the seller has sent the product. Either the seller or buyer can try to scam.
With Escrow AT, you would send your Nxt to seller via AT, at which point the Nxt is committed and you have two choices, release the funds to the seller or release the funds to the genesis block or charity (whereas neither party would benefit).  You wouldn't have the choice to get them back and the seller wouldn't have incentive to scam you since the funds would go elsewhere if you don't get your product.

Seller can sell to himself and give good feedback.
Yes, but they would have to go through the trouble of sending Nxt, leaving feedback, and it would all be traceable, and there would be no purpose with Escrow AT.



So this is a burn escrow, which doesn't need outsiders to resolve disputes. And it doesn't use the asset exchange, because sales are not public.

I didn't understand how the buyer finds the sellers and the products to be sold.


That is what we need to work on, a decentralized market.  Personally I would prefer a torrent style file that downloads a marketplace to your client where it would be viewable.  The marketplace could be hosted on several seeding/forging machines.

My vision for a decentralized anonymous marketplace has the following features, in order of importance.

1. Security
2. Anonymity
(3. Fraud-prevention)

The market would be hosted nowhere, each seller would host his own market on his own computer. No centralized weak point. Outsiders don't know what is being sold. Even the buyers don't have a clear picture of all available products and amounts being sold. Each seller would only know his own sales.

Security would come from the p2p nature of the Nxt network, encryption of all messages, and optionally the users could use Tor. Coins can be mixed by the users using the existing mixers for Bitcoin or Nxt, not directly by the anonymous market software.

Fraud-prevention can be done with non-technical means such as forum discussions and word-of-mouth reputation.





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March 08, 2014, 11:55:13 AM
 #41865

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.

Just to check there was no misunderstanding:

1. By "software" you mean the NXT software, or the parallel chain software? I did not mean the creator can change the parameters at any time. But rather, the creator can specify the block rate when he initially creates the parallel chain. Or did you mean that the parallel chain block rate must be equal to the master chain's block rate?

2. Assuming the creator using a different currency (say NXT^2), how can this currency be traded with NXT? Can it be done via a decentralized exchange?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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March 08, 2014, 11:56:18 AM
 #41866

Coinpayments is closing down: https://www.coinpayments.net

What was this site for?
Processing bitcoin payments. USA's FinCen says they have authority over bitcoin and any company that touches it is a money transmitter. Now bitcoin is as troublesome as fiat in America. Isnt America nice

So, now you need at least $5 million to operation in USA, before you can even start. maybe you can choose a few states to lower the compliance cost, but every state has their own rules, add the federal stuff on top and the war on bitcoin escalates.

James

Do you have a source for this? I'd like to read up.

http://www.fincen.gov/

Read especially:

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/testimony/html/20140220.html

FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well.   If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.

I am only partially joking.
will I get internet access from jail?

that and three hots and a cot plus more sex than you ever wanted.



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March 08, 2014, 12:08:11 PM
 #41867

buybitcoinscanada: I can do a wiki and Joefox too Smiley Lets wait few hours and then I will transform it in a better form. But this page will probably die, because Nxt is not a coin and even a currency. It is a platform. In the past there was no chance to stay there because we had zero external sources...

Can we try to put TF on the wiki first? It looks more academic. Then we put Nxt and use TF as its reference.
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March 08, 2014, 12:09:19 PM
 #41868

Not quite yet. Parallel chains can pretend to have reached 1440 blocks and further bloat the master chain.

What restrictions do we impose on the slave chains, that can be verified without looking at the slave chain itself?

Every slave chain can be checkpointed only once a day if it has 1440 block/day rate.

So, the checkpoints get included only if the slavechain can prove that it has advanced 1440 blocks further from the last checkpoint on the masterchain.

How can such a prove look like? (I am thinking of the case of a Chinese coin behind the firewall)
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March 08, 2014, 12:13:59 PM
 #41869

1) Are these parallel chains fully customizable? What I mean by is that can the parallel chain creator specify fees (even set them to zero) or block timer? Can these chains be changed in such a way that Aliases can expire and/or AM's not expire? I assume this should be possible as long as people are willing to deal with the changes and secure the parallel chain.
2) How can currencies be traded across chains? Will all chains use NXT as the "base" currency?

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.

1) Imagine a chain generator. Wink That would take away the nasty work of creating a coin for you by setting some parameters.
2) I consider NXT to be coin as well. BCNext, Etherium creator etc. can call tell their tokens not to be coins for whatever purpose. But in the end, these tokens are be traded like coins. If it behaves like a coin, it is a coin. (ducktyping)
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March 08, 2014, 12:14:55 PM
 #41870

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

and watch when that 85% is running to the exit (which they eventualy will do soon), omg that door will be much to small! Cheesy

Weren't you supposed to sell your 100 million NXT a couple weeks ago?

busy with that.

you retards do not seem to understand it take alot of work and time to sell 100M specialy when noone is interested to buy. market is so thin i would kill nxt over and over and scare every one away (that would make me the bagholder)

it will take months to sell all unless i dump 50 to 60 times but than price will go to zero every time

I think you should get out of your mom's basement a bit - maybe find out what a pair of boobs feels like. Smiley



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salsacz
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March 08, 2014, 12:27:56 PM
 #41871

Texas Bitcoin Conference NXT Marketing Brochure
http://nxt.sx/images/resources/NXT-Brochure-4.pdf

And thank you again, generous donor, in funding 5000 copies of this to be printed at Austin, TX for my pickup there on Tuesday.

NxtMinnow, I will be sending you what I don't use in Austin for you to hand out in San Francisco.  Mail 'em on to the next Conference when you're done with them.

Now we have 4500 brochures with these outdated texts  Wink

Quote
NXT goes full open source April 4, 2014

Quote
Speaking of exchanges: Cryptsy is coming!

Quote
ongoing events: full open source code April 4;
listing of NXT on Cryptsy

Nxt tips: NXT-R67P-6BZ2-XWAK-8RHZR | Nxt forum | Nxt Academy | Donate for Nxt at the Universities // BTCD: RVMLrnxYYy7uy8YZo9FcGfXbk1ZMnNifdg
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March 08, 2014, 12:32:08 PM
 #41872

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.

Just to check there was no misunderstanding:

1. By "software" you mean the NXT software, or the parallel chain software? I did not mean the creator can change the parameters at any time. But rather, the creator can specify the block rate when he initially creates the parallel chain. Or did you mean that the parallel chain block rate must be equal to the master chain's block rate?

2. Assuming the creator using a different currency (say NXT^2), how can this currency be traded with NXT? Can it be done via a decentralized exchange?

1. Yes, Nxt software. Block rate shouldn't be changed. No real profit, only disadvantages.
2. Atomic cross-chain trades.
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March 08, 2014, 12:33:37 PM
 #41873

How can such a prove look like? (I am thinking of the case of a Chinese coin behind the firewall)

No need to prove. If other nodes disagree with this checkpoint they will just reject such a block in Master chain.
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March 08, 2014, 12:35:08 PM
 #41874

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.

Will those changes affect the high-level NRS api?

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March 08, 2014, 12:36:29 PM
 #41875

TestNXT to 2299216276842660095 please, if there are any left.

+100000000 to btc2nxt for giving us newcomers some useful and structured things to try on the AE. Though, I will still have to create and transfer 50 "honks" to the owner of "boobs"... no apologies.

Less of the sniping at each other please, I thought Emule was gaining some traction a few pages back. If you are feeling down and dejected, simply take a break. We will still be here when you get back Wink

For everyone else, let's get on it people!
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March 08, 2014, 12:37:44 PM
 #41876

Will those changes affect the high-level NRS api?

I think yes.
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March 08, 2014, 12:39:03 PM
 #41877

What is an ETA for Wesleys one click installer client? This is an absolute priority.

The client is there and working perfect, tested it over and over.

I think it will be integrated by J-L in the first new version that comes out.

Yes but is it a one click installer for new people?

If we have that than we need to push it and market it to the newcomers.

Wesleyh has a windows app, just unzip and run.

You can even install it on USB stick and run it from there.

Link please?


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5543952#msg5543952

Well than we need to market this and to make this our primary client for the newcomers. We need to upload link to this client everywhere and make it least confusing for all of the newcomers. Can this be put up at the first page as our main client?

We need to get rid of this "don't go there this is just for geeks" behavior with all the newcomers and non-tech people.
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March 08, 2014, 12:39:19 PM
 #41878

I forgot to tell that Master chain must be visible to everyone and be forged by everyone. It's a point of synchronization.
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March 08, 2014, 12:41:15 PM
 #41879

TestNXT to 2299216276842660095 please, if there are any left.

+100000000 to btc2nxt for giving us crypto noobs some useful and structured things to try on the AE. Though, I will still have to create and transfer 50 "honks" to the owner of "boobs"... no apologies.

Less of the sniping at each other please, I thought Emule was gaining some traction a few pages back. If you are feeling down and dejected, simply take a break. We will still be here when you get back Wink

For everyone else, let's get on it people!

Re-phrased. I'm a crypto/software noob not a newcomer, I've read every word from page 680ish? (EpicThomas fallout and the rise of RickyJames). The roller coaster continues...
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March 08, 2014, 12:44:26 PM
 #41880

Will those changes affect the high-level NRS api?

I think yes.

Ok. I'm sure you know that sweeping changes to the API are detrimental to the development of services on top of NXT.

I'm not saying this is the wrong way to go, in fact I don't even believe I should have a saying on this. IMHO the developers should not even consult the "community" and just proceed with developing the features they deem necessary and important. This project lacks leadership at it stands.

We would appreciate, however, an announcement beforehand when/if the API breaks.

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