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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761351 times)
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:08:11 AM
 #41841

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).


someone can clarify me that is exactly ultra hight TPS and why is this in conflict with decentralization?


Nodes need to be really powerful.
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The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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March 08, 2014, 11:09:35 AM
 #41842

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.
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March 08, 2014, 11:10:07 AM
 #41843

How important is ultra hight TPS? What are your opinions?

In my humble opinion it is very important as Ethereum is likely to be better at everything else that Nxt will do.

What they can't do is TF (without a re-design) so it is the thing that makes Nxt different (and appealing).


What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?
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March 08, 2014, 11:10:58 AM
 #41844

Nodes need to be really powerful.

Think of "radio" and "video" - on a shitty internet connection (or with terribly slow hardware) you can probably listen to "radio" without a problem but you can't watch "video" (especially not HD stuff).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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March 08, 2014, 11:12:15 AM
 #41845

What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?

I don't think they thought of the "result" when they designed the internet back in the 60's - but am pretty sure they *did care a lot* about the architecture.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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March 08, 2014, 11:13:28 AM
 #41846

What is great about TF? Doesn't the result count - who cares about the architecture?

I don't think they thought of the "result" when they designed the internet back in the 60's - but am pretty sure they *did care a lot* about the architecture.


Good point.

edit: Since you understand Nxt and TF now a lot better, could you state some bullet points about TF and why it is great?
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March 08, 2014, 11:18:07 AM
 #41847

Wikipedia should not be used to promote yourself. I hope the article gets deleted soon.

Nxt should be promoted in mainstream media. It needs to become notable. Once that is done, it will show up in Wikipedia -- without you doing anything.

I hate when Wikipedia is abused for self promotion

Sorry?
Have u ever looked at the article I wrote? >>> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nxt

I invested more then seven hours to write, translate and compare the different cryptocurrency-articles in the german wikipedia to strike the right note.
This was not just a copy of an early article! As you can see it is already reviewed and with some little changes now allowed to stay.
It is absolutely crazy that there was in this stadium no article! 

Do you really think somebody who is not interested in cryptocurrencies will write articles about it in wikipedia? No. People with interests have to start it and others will review them and so on... there is nothing wrong about starting articles of your own interests. This is integral in the logical wiki-structure.
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:21:17 AM
 #41848

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.
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March 08, 2014, 11:24:48 AM
 #41849

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Ok
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March 08, 2014, 11:25:22 AM
 #41850

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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March 08, 2014, 11:31:16 AM
 #41851

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


So the upcoming forgers (with TF in place) will be able to build many cheap parallel chains, because they know when to register?
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March 08, 2014, 11:38:15 AM
 #41852

RFC: Parallel Chains concept

Only TL;DR version, coz noone would read a full one.

Master Chain

Contains only checkpoints of all slave chains. Checkpointing is done once a day and only when 1440 blocks r built on top of the corresponding slave chain. Master chain is never pruned. Growth rate is [32 bytes * numberOfSlaveChain] per day.

Slave Chains

Contains only 1 type of transactions. Different currencies can be implemented as different chains. Forgers can choose what chains to secure. The market balances TPS rate.

Migration plan

Create slave chains that implement all transactions types existing in Nxt. Add a new type for checkpointing. Reject attempts to include non-checkpointing transactions into the master chain.

Side-effects

The Chinese could use a separate currency inside their borders for very high TPS rates. Only checkpointing transactions have to bypass Great Firewall of China. Speculators provide currency exchange service - the business they love to do. NXTs become "tokens", users buy them for fiat to spend for fees, it's similar to prepaid coupons/tickets for provided services.

Awesome!

Quick questions:

1) Are these parallel chains fully customizable? What I mean by is that can the parallel chain creator specify fees (even set them to zero) or block timer? Can these chains be changed in such a way that Aliases can expire and/or AM's not expire? I assume this should be possible as long as people are willing to deal with the changes and secure the parallel chain.
2) How can currencies be traded across chains? Will all chains use NXT as the "base" currency?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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March 08, 2014, 11:41:26 AM
 #41853

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


So the upcoming forgers (with TF in place) will be able to build many cheap parallel chains, because they know when to register?

Now that I think about it, parallel chains is a very nice way to achieve the 1000 TPS goal. It is highly unlikely that everyone needs to use all the parallel chains at once, so by providing many, many chains, people would only have to secure the ones they are interested in. NXT as a whole could have 1000 TPS, but a regular user would probably only need to secure at most 100 TPS on the chains he/she is interested in.

NXT: 13095091276527367030
ChuckOne
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March 08, 2014, 11:41:31 AM
 #41854

How do we prevent bloating the master chain?

New chains need to be registered at the master chain for a fee.

Seems like you answered your own question. Smiley


Not quite yet. Parallel chains can pretend to have reached 1440 blocks and further bloat the master chain.

What restrictions do we impose on the slave chains, that can be verified without looking at the slave chain itself?
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March 08, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
 #41855

Random thought: If we cannot guarantee network spread for security reasons with Nxt now, how can we have security with many more blockchains?
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March 08, 2014, 11:45:44 AM
 #41856

1) Are these parallel chains fully customizable? What I mean by is that can the parallel chain creator specify fees (even set them to zero) or block timer? Can these chains be changed in such a way that Aliases can expire and/or AM's not expire? I assume this should be possible as long as people are willing to deal with the changes and secure the parallel chain.
2) How can currencies be traded across chains? Will all chains use NXT as the "base" currency?

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.
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March 08, 2014, 11:46:58 AM
 #41857

Not quite yet. Parallel chains can pretend to have reached 1440 blocks and further bloat the master chain.

What restrictions do we impose on the slave chains, that can be verified without looking at the slave chain itself?

Every slave chain can be checkpointed only once a day if it has 1440 block/day rate.
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March 08, 2014, 11:52:12 AM
 #41858

I didn't understand what buyer/seller verified means.
What I mean is that when you are leaving feedback via AM, you will be required to enter a Tx id, where the sender (buyer's) account must match your account # and the receiving account must match the account where you are sending the feedback AM (the sellers account).  If those match up, the feedback is sent via AM.

I'm wondering if escrow/reputation is the best model for the SR type use case, and if there could be an alternative model.
Would the names of products and quantities sold be publicly available on the blockchain? Somehow I think this will draw unwanted attention.
Nothing would show up on the blockchain except the amounts of Nxt and the public feedback, all other messages would be encrypted.

How would disputes be resolved?  Outsiders can't know if the seller has sent the product. Either the seller or buyer can try to scam.
With Escrow AT, you would send your Nxt to seller via AT, at which point the Nxt is committed and you have two choices, release the funds to the seller or release the funds to the genesis block or charity (whereas neither party would benefit).  You wouldn't have the choice to get them back and the seller wouldn't have incentive to scam you since the funds would go elsewhere if you don't get your product.

Seller can sell to himself and give good feedback.
Yes, but they would have to go through the trouble of sending Nxt, leaving feedback, and it would all be traceable, and there would be no purpose with Escrow AT.



So this is a burn escrow, which doesn't need outsiders to resolve disputes. And it doesn't use the asset exchange, because sales are not public.

I didn't understand how the buyer finds the sellers and the products to be sold.


That is what we need to work on, a decentralized market.  Personally I would prefer a torrent style file that downloads a marketplace to your client where it would be viewable.  The marketplace could be hosted on several seeding/forging machines.

My vision for a decentralized anonymous marketplace has the following features, in order of importance.

1. Security
2. Anonymity
(3. Fraud-prevention)

The market would be hosted nowhere, each seller would host his own market on his own computer. No centralized weak point. Outsiders don't know what is being sold. Even the buyers don't have a clear picture of all available products and amounts being sold. Each seller would only know his own sales.

Security would come from the p2p nature of the Nxt network, encryption of all messages, and optionally the users could use Tor. Coins can be mixed by the users using the existing mixers for Bitcoin or Nxt, not directly by the anonymous market software.

Fraud-prevention can be done with non-technical means such as forum discussions and word-of-mouth reputation.





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March 08, 2014, 11:55:13 AM
 #41859

1. No, parameters must be hardcoded in software.
2. NXT can be used as currency.

Just to check there was no misunderstanding:

1. By "software" you mean the NXT software, or the parallel chain software? I did not mean the creator can change the parameters at any time. But rather, the creator can specify the block rate when he initially creates the parallel chain. Or did you mean that the parallel chain block rate must be equal to the master chain's block rate?

2. Assuming the creator using a different currency (say NXT^2), how can this currency be traded with NXT? Can it be done via a decentralized exchange?

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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March 08, 2014, 11:56:18 AM
 #41860

Coinpayments is closing down: https://www.coinpayments.net

What was this site for?
Processing bitcoin payments. USA's FinCen says they have authority over bitcoin and any company that touches it is a money transmitter. Now bitcoin is as troublesome as fiat in America. Isnt America nice

So, now you need at least $5 million to operation in USA, before you can even start. maybe you can choose a few states to lower the compliance cost, but every state has their own rules, add the federal stuff on top and the war on bitcoin escalates.

James

Do you have a source for this? I'd like to read up.

http://www.fincen.gov/

Read especially:

http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/testimony/html/20140220.html

FinCEN getting involved in cryptocurrency is a huge blow to Bitcoin in the US and NXT as well.   If NXT implements NXTcash as a truly anonymous transfer service, we can expect FinCen to arrest James as a terrorist.

I am only partially joking.
will I get internet access from jail?

that and three hots and a cot plus more sex than you ever wanted.

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