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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756461 times)
vitvert
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March 07, 2014, 10:41:28 AM
 #41461

Hi!
My test account: 2973390967879414192
for testing Asset Exchange... Thank.

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CIYAM
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March 07, 2014, 10:42:44 AM
 #41462

Bottom line: We could have one big pool who is responsible for many many smaller pools?

Probably not such a great idea when we consider the importance of decentralisation - what I would like to see is just a bunch of small independent pools (each with say a max. forging power of 1% or maybe 0.1% of all NXT).

This is why I would like to see some sort of "forging power limit" imposed.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bitcoinpaul
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March 07, 2014, 10:44:17 AM
 #41463

What's with the idea of group of forgers with penalization, CIYAM. Could we model this? I'm no dev, so I can't.

edit: Or did we already do that?
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March 07, 2014, 10:54:10 AM
 #41464

Nxt :: Asset Exchange Testing
Let´s get things organized!

I´ve created a project for Nxt AE on TestPad.

https://nxt.ontestpad.com

Anyone willing to test AE please join the site so I can add you to the project.

What is TestPad for and why to join?

We can

- write test cases
- run tests step-by-step
- track tests step-by-step
- track bugs
- track bugfixing progress


Please PM me your username after registration.

Edit: TestPad is charging $9/month for every new user. I will pay for the subscription from my own pocket, so please, only join if you are serious about testing.


Still looking for some candidates WHO ARE ABLE TO WRITE TESTCASES!

AE (0.8.7) looks pretty good and stable. I made following pretty "complicated" test that involves multiple characteristics of the AE order matching algorithm in one test case. If such test cases succeed, we can be pretty sure that all the simple functions involved work as intended.

The test case was the following:
3 Accounts involved, account A and B are sellers of "Peanuts", account C is a buyer of "Peanuts", they sell and buy different amounts for different prices.

Possessions before trade:
Account A: 1000 NXT, 2000 Peanuts
Account B: 500 NXT, 5000 Peanuts
Account C: 2000 NXT, 1000 Peanuts

Offers:
A makes a sell offer: 300 Peanuts, Price: 2 NXT, Fee: 1 NXT
B makes a sell offer: 200 Peanuts, Price: 1 NXT, Fee: 1 NXT
C makes a buy offer, 350 Peanuts, for 3 NXT each, Fee: 3 NXT

The AE Order matching algorithm assumes (correctly) that a buyer wants to buy as cheap as possible. So, C buys 200 Peanuts from B for 1 NXT each (200 NXT total), and 150 Peanuts from A for 2 NXT each (total 300 NXT).

Final possessions after trades:
Account A: 1000 NXT + 300 NXT - 1 NXT (fee) = 1299 NXT,
   2000 Peanuts - 150 Peanuts = 1850 Peanuts
Account B: 500 NXT + 200 NXT - 1 NXT (Fee) = 699 NXT,
   5000 Peanuts - 200 Peanuts = 4800 Peanuts
Account C: 2000 NXT - (200*1 NXT) - (150*2 NXT) - 3 NXT (Fee) = 1497 NXT
   1000 Peanuts + 200 Peanuts + 150 Peanuts = 1350 Peanuts

And finally, there is still a sell offer active from account A about 150 Peanuts for 2 NXT each.

Additionall, the total amount of Peanuts before and after the trades must be the same:
before: 2000 + 5000 + 1000 = 8000 Peanuts
after: 1850 + 4800 + 1350 = 8000 Peanuts

Also the amount of NXT must be the same, minus the fees:
before: 1000 + 500 + 2000 = 3500 NXT
after: 1299 + 699 + 1497 = 3495 NXT (5 NXT are "lost" as fees)

This testcase succeeded!
We should do some additional similar testcases



Great idea.

We need to have performance tests and boundary tests, too.

Could you write a script for that? I would like to see how AE performs in extreme conditions. Especially, when the underlying NXT infrastructure make transition to the next block.
We also need to really test the referencedTransaction
Its one of those optional things that really complicate the possible states things can be in and would be a prime place for race conditions and other edge effects

Please Yes! This has been giving me quite some headache - CfB advised me to ignore it for the time being!

What's the deal??

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March 07, 2014, 11:02:50 AM
 #41465

Nxt was removed ?
http://coinmarketcap.com/

 
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bitcoinpaul
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March 07, 2014, 11:04:50 AM
 #41466

NXT disappeared from http://coinmarketcap.com/  Huh Does anyone know what has happened? 

http://coinmarketcap.com/2.html

Just another api error with one of the exchanges, I assume.
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March 07, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
 #41467

What's with the idea of group of forgers with penalization, CIYAM. Could we model this? I'm no dev, so I can't.

edit: Or did we already do that?

We are still trying to work out what exactly is required for TF to work properly.

The purpose of penalisation is try and prevent some sort of advantage happening by "gaming" the system, however, I am far from convinced that 1) it will work and 2) that we even need it.

One reason is that TF is supposed to not favour one single "best forger" for one block but instead that there should always be x equivalent "best forgers" for any given block. So if you are wanting to "skip your turn" you don't need to "pretend your asleep" but perhaps you just send out your block *after* the others that are equally qualified to forge already have.

This situation becomes quite tricky when you think about network topology and is going to result in some nodes "penalising you" and some nodes "not" depending upon whether or not they think you broadcast your block "on time" (i.e. a race condition) and I am concerned it could result in more people "ending up on a fork" than not "penalising" at all (because if you are a large stake holder then you are likely to be forging more than once per day).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bitcoinpaul
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March 07, 2014, 11:05:52 AM
 #41468

sort of i guess?Huh lol
people lease to pool, for each (sub)node the pool runs the more power they have.. would be cool if you could create an asset that shows you own that node and each node "asset" is equivalent to a particular amount of coins.. and hallmarked ones worth a bit more. so you get the extra power for running a node but with out using extra nxt to do it???

if a pool has 10m nxt to forge with.. he creates 1000 nodes. each of those nodes have an "asset" which the forger "buys" by sending 1000Nxt to each node. the pool now owns the "asset" for each node so you end up with 1000 nodes with 1000nxt and one acc with 1000 "assets".. and the "assets" are worth more for forging then coins.. so their is an incentive for pools to run multiple nodes. if my idea is just stupid just shoot me down and say so lol

In the light of decentralization, this doesn't help, I guess.
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March 07, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
 #41469

Nxt is still there - if you put in this url its individual graph comes up http://coinmarketcap.com/nxt_30.html

While I was looking at coin market - this was aurora coin...
If you were a buyer on that pointy bit - that is gonna hurt...


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v39453
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March 07, 2014, 11:15:17 AM
 #41470

Has somebody thought about the Decentralized App Store written by BCNext:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=317607.0 ?

Or could we have decentralized buying and selling of files (with any content)?

How about this:

1. Seller generates a random key and encrypts the file to be sold.
2. Seller stores the file somewhere on the net, and announces what he is selling (either on the blockchain or outside the blockchain).
3. Buyer sends NXT to seller.
4. Seller sends a message to the buyer with a download link and the key generated in step one.
5. Buyer downloads the file and decrypts it.


Would somebody like to work on this for a bounty?
l8orre
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March 07, 2014, 11:15:21 AM
 #41471

It appears that the 'not enough funds' bug on the AE is still there ?!?!




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March 07, 2014, 11:18:50 AM
 #41472

One reason is that TF is supposed to not favour one single "best forger" for one block but instead that there should always be x equivalent "best forgers" for any given block. So if you are wanting to "skip your turn" you don't need to "pretend your asleep" but perhaps you just send out your block *after* the others that are equally qualified to forge already have.

This situation becomes quite tricky when you think about network topology and is going to result in some nodes "penalising you" and some nodes "not" depending upon whether or not they think you broadcast your block "on time" (i.e. a race condition) and I am concerned it could result in more people "ending up on a fork" than not "penalising" at all (because if you are a large stake holder then you are likely to be forging more than once per day).

The idea was to penalize if ur block wasn't included. Not if u didn't send it.
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March 07, 2014, 11:22:14 AM
 #41473

The idea was to penalize if ur block wasn't included. Not if u didn't send it.

Wasn't included by who?

That is my point.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
bitcoinpaul
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March 07, 2014, 11:22:43 AM
 #41474

The idea was to penalize if ur block wasn't included. Not if u didn't send it.

Wasn't included by who?

That is my point.


Exactly. I wonder, too Huh
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March 07, 2014, 11:24:17 AM
 #41475

Check this out, BTC point of sale device:

http://imgur.com/a/pVsEJ

From http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/179038-my-conversation-mark-karpeles-mtgox-7.html#post2167080
bitcoinpaul
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March 07, 2014, 11:25:01 AM
 #41476

fallen behind vertcoin! please vote to get nxt on btc38!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=501963.0;topicseen

They already research NXT right now. I don't know if this poll would change anything...
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March 07, 2014, 11:53:31 AM
 #41477

Testing AE. Using NxtWallet. Have question as simple Joe:

Did I miss somethere, but how to know at which price I bought asset? I don't see anything in transactions and my assets.

Could somebody point me if it is?
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March 07, 2014, 11:56:55 AM
 #41478

One reason is that TF is supposed to not favour one single "best forger" for one block but instead that there should always be x equivalent "best forgers" for any given block. So if you are wanting to "skip your turn" you don't need to "pretend your asleep" but perhaps you just send out your block *after* the others that are equally qualified to forge already have.

This situation becomes quite tricky when you think about network topology and is going to result in some nodes "penalising you" and some nodes "not" depending upon whether or not they think you broadcast your block "on time" (i.e. a race condition) and I am concerned it could result in more people "ending up on a fork" than not "penalising" at all (because if you are a large stake holder then you are likely to be forging more than once per day).

The idea was to penalize if ur block wasn't included. Not if u didn't send it.

Both - this is build on an earlier idea...
I know this is not exactly right but its how I want to try to get this idea across..

Forging is like a lottery.
Every node gets a ticket with a number of winning lines
There is a lottery every minute
A node can enter its ticket once every 24hrs - if it uses it and it doesn't win it can't play again for 24h

Ideas which centralise NXT, result in NXT being concentrated in nodes etc are bad for the network potentially.

We need an idea that keeps more nodes on the network, doesn't drive a centralisation of structure and gives people more chances of winning even if they have to divide those winnings, and does not magnify the impact of the TF Penalty.

Forging Co-Operatives
I keep my node online, forging with my NXT.
I agree to join the "NXT Cat lovers" CO-Operative (name created when first person registered it)
By joining I have agreed to share any winnings from the lines on my ticket with all others in the Co-Op and vice versa
The potential to win is equal to the total NXT in the cooperative forging.
The returns are divided proportionally to the NXT in the Co-Operative.
Nodes still enter their tickets but only the tickets entered by the nodes in the Co-Op get deducted from the Co-op ability for forge.
There are no 'Owners' or Fees for 'Owners' as people are using their own Nodes.

I would make joining a co-op like moving NXT so 1440 blocks to become an effective member
No benefits until you do become and effective member
Co-Op can't kick you out i.e. if your node/account gets a penalty.
If you are offline and not forging you don't get a share
if you are offline for 1440 blocks you get removed from the Co-Op

How you enforce the fee share from the forged block I don't know how to do but if you like this I was hoping you might Smiley

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italovers
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March 07, 2014, 11:59:18 AM
 #41479

STOP vote, they have listed some other shitcoins.
They have decide to list RIC / Riecoin, BIL / BillionCoin, YBC . All these coins(be listed) are shit.
 The bullshit Poll just waste our time!
Angry

F,U, C,K
btc38
italovers
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March 07, 2014, 12:00:40 PM
 #41480

fallen behind vertcoin! please vote to get nxt on btc38!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=501963.0;topicseen

They already research NXT right now. I don't know if this poll would change anything...

STOP vote, they have listed some other shitcoins.
They have decide to list RIC / Riecoin, BIL / BillionCoin, YBC . All these coins(be listed) are shit.
 The bullshit Poll just waste our time!
Angry
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