NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[windjc]

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

[eightspaces]

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Why waste ur time guys?

[CIYAM]

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

[CIYAM]

Why waste ur time guys?

Indeed it can get a little tedious in this topic.

[windjc]

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

Right. But you assume that the cost to make a transaction would always be 1 Nxt. Unless this is an ultimatum that cannot ever change, then I am not sure why this matters.

Also, I am not sure why Nxt would be best served to be a platform for micro transactions. Seems very limiting.

[2Kool4Skewl]

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

This is the reason why NXT's tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.

[windjc]

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

Good - let it "sink in" and hopefully a few others will too.

If you have powers to predict markets so well you could make a lot of money on Wall St. Crypto-currency is kind of a new thing by the way and everything about it is unprecedented. The halls of history are lined with the skins of those who thought they could predict the market and I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to say you can predict with certainty what Nxt will be worth.  Market forces are unpredictable, based on emotions, crowd mentality and many other factors including economic, financial and political. If math and market caps could predict everything about markets there's be no Stock market.  

NXt just like XRP is the only trust-less currency that exists in the system, therefore there is a potential for value, depending on the value of the entire ecosystem. All other assets issued are worth only what you can trust the issuer for.

I think I'm starting to see the deep distaste that some in the Nxt development community have for speculators: ie: NXt investors. I find it very concerning and I'm hoping others might pipe in here.

I think the issue is more that both investors and developers when they argue, both have good points.

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.

[CIYAM]

Right. But you assume that the cost to make a transaction would always be 1 Nxt. Unless this is an ultimatum that cannot ever change, then I am not sure why this matters.

At the moment it does - and soon it will likely change to being 0.1 (from memory that was what was most popular) - so as I said some smart math guy could probably come up with some sort of formula that involves the "available supply" of Nxt and the number of transactions and predict the likely value of it (not me though as I am not so good with math).

Micro transactions are really not something that any blockchain is going to handle perfectly although with Nxt the idea of being able to regularly *shrink* the blockchain will certainly make it a better option than say Bitcoin.

[windjc]

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

This is part of the reason why the NXT tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.

Agreed. This idea that Nxt cannot be a currency AND a platform is so very odd to me. Bitcoin is both. Albiet a different platform.

[CIYAM]

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.

In no way am I trying to "be condescending" - just pointing out that NXT is not like LTC or other Bitcoin clones (so investors should be aware of this and what being a "platform" implies).

If people have invested in NXT thinking it is just like LTC then they have "not done their due diligence".

[windjc]

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Why waste ur time guys?

Your condescension only reflects on you. If you dismiss my points out of hand, you are too narrow minded to be a leader in the Nxt movement. Not that you can't serve other purposes.

[windjc]

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.

In no way am I trying to "be condescending" - just pointing out that NXT is not like LTC or other Bitcoin clones (so investors should be aware of this and what being a "platform" implies).

But, again, you seem to dismiss Nxt as a currency (and it should be pointed out that those "clones" are not good currency options).  Makes no sense. It can exist as both, despite the original developers initial intentions, if we even know what those were/are.

[2Kool4Skewl]

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

This is part of the reason why the NXT tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.

Agreed. This idea that Nxt cannot be a currency AND a platform is so very odd to me. Bitcoin is both. Albiet a different platform.

I don't think Ian dismissed the fact that NXT is both a currency and a platform.  You can't have one without the other.

[BrianNowhere]

If you have powers to predict markets so well you could make a lot of money on Wall St.

I don't have such powers although I did make quite a bit of money from a few well chosen stocks (such as Sun Microsystems back in the early 90's).

I am "no hippie" but I do *get* what Nxt actually *is*. It is *not* another "pump and dump copy coin" but instead a *platform*.

Right from the start Nxt was presented without the word "coin" and this among other things was *deliberate*.

You could unzip your pants and stick your wang in the Nasdaq in the 90's and make money. I don't think Mr. Buffet or Soros has to worry about being dethroned anytime soon.

Well I'm glad we've had this discussion and I understand more now what I've suspected for a while now about both Nxt and Ripple, which is that both believe they can exist in a vacuum somehow unencumbered by market forces.

At least Ripple has made their system scalable. If the price of XRp went up the fees would still be infinitesimal.  You seem to not be worried at all about contingency in case you are wrong,  which is something I would think any good programmer should always be thinking about and why I say it's very concerning to me.

You seem to be sending a strong SELL message. Not sure if you care, but that's what I'm getting. I can just wait for the new assets to come out, no reason to stick around, is pretty much what you are saying.

[CIYAM]

But, again, you seem to dismiss Nxt as a currency.  Makes no sense. It can exist as both, despite the original developers initial intentions, if we even know what those were/are.

And *again* you are "putting words in my mouth" (I wish you wouldn't do that as I am not doing that to you).

Firstly Nxt =/= NXT they are two different things.

Nxt is the platform and NXT is the "fuel" that it runs on - these are just the plain facts that I am stating.

So NXT *is* a crypto-currency but *it is not equivalent to LTC and other Bitcoin clones*. You can only compare "apples to apples".

[windjc]

If you have powers to predict markets so well you could make a lot of money on Wall St.

I don't have such powers although I did make quite a bit of money from a few well chosen stocks (such as Sun Microsystems back in the early 90's).

I am "no hippie" but I do *get* what Nxt actually *is*. It is *not* another "pump and dump copy coin" but instead a *platform*.

Right from the start Nxt was presented without the word "coin" and this among other things was *deliberate*.

You could unzip your pants and stick your wang in the Nasdaq in the 90's and make money. I don't think Mr. Buffet or Soros has to worry about being dethroned anytime soon.

Well I'm glad we've had this discussion and I understand more now what I've suspected for a while now about both Nxt and Ripple, which is that both believe they can exist in a vacuum somehow unencumbered by market forces.

At least Ripple has made their system scalable. If the price of XRp went up the fees would still be infinitesimal.  You seem to not be worried at all about contingency in case you are wrong,  which is something I would think any good programmer should always be thinking about and why I say it's very concerning to me.

You seem to be sending a strong SELL message. Not sure if you care, but that's what I'm getting. I can just wait for the new assets to come out, no reason to stick around, is pretty much what you are saying.

I don't think Ian even realizes the message he is actually sending.  But you should spend more time looking at what everyone else in the community is working on before forming an opinion on the state of things.

[CIYAM]

You seem to be sending a strong SELL message. Not sure if you care, but that's what I'm getting. I can just wait for the new assets to come out, no reason to stick around, is pretty much what you are saying.

That I guess is how you have decided to interpret my posts.

Buy or sell is up to you and others - it's a free market!

(personally "I am holding")

[windjc]

But, again, you seem to dismiss Nxt as a currency.  Makes no sense. It can exist as both, despite the original developers initial intentions, if we even know what those were/are.

And *again* you are "putting words in my mouth" (I wish you wouldn't do that as I am not doing that to you).

Firstly Nxt =/= NXT they are two different things.

Nxt is the platform and NXT is the "fuel" that it runs on - these are just the plain facts that I am stating.

So NXT *is* a crypto-currency but *it is not equivalent to LTC and other Bitcoin clones*. You can only compare "apples to apples".

Actually as a currency Nxt can and should be compared to other alts. Absolutely. POS vs. POW.

Green apples to red apples.

As an exchange it should be compared to MC, Emunie, and others.

[2Kool4Skewl]

(personally "I am hodling")

FIFY

[CIYAM]

Actually as a currency Nxt can and should be compared to other alts. Absolutely. POS vs. POW.

It is a poor comparison - if you want to compare NXT to something then I think XRP is a much closer one.