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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2761621 times)
opticalcarrier
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March 18, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
 #45601

Does anyone else have their 0.8.x client, when forging, run off on its own fork and generate every single block?  This happens to me multiple times per day.  At first my client would just stop receiving new blocks; I thought it was caused by forging behind TOR, but I stopped using TOR and now every so often I just go off on a fork all by myself.  0.7.7 works fine though.

I rebooted, same thing.  Im using ubuntu.

Any ideas?  I enabled debugging but the log file doesnt really show anything.  What other diags/debugs can I enable?
zorke
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March 18, 2014, 04:20:59 PM
 #45602

CIYAM, What do you see the value of NXT being longterm? I partially agree with you, but only to a certain extent, I think the value of NXT can be a few USD max in the next 2-4 years, I'm sorry guys but 500USD isn't going to happen, unless supply is cut off.

Salsacz, I watched your video! Great work! We think a lot alike, I really appreciate the work you're doing. I'll send a tip your way when I get to a safe computer.

MyNxt.info works great, who created it? I will be passing it along to friends and family so they don't complain in a year when they "missed out" because it was too difficult to create an account.

At this moment in time the most important project for NXT's success is automated multisig gateways for the AE. Is there currently a group working on this? I can help out if you guys need a cross-language dev. If I can buy LTC or BTC with NXT I would never use BTER/Cryptsy/BTC-E again. There is a massive market here.

No outsiders care about it all anymore, development has halted, frustrated discussions without any results, prices are going to the bottom and everyone except the initial IPO holders have lost a large amount of their invested money --- is it as good as dead?

No, pull yourself together man.
I am the only one coding the core of the multisig gateway, but antanst who created NXT tipbot and http://testnet.nextblocks.info/ is helping with the web side, including google authenticator verification of withdrawals

I am a simple C programmer, so it would be great to have somebody who can refactor it into a different language. I am currently doing a total refactor now that I got the proof of concept working. Based on antanst's feedback (he didnt like the single gateway reliance for 1 second on deposit into sweep acct), I am in the process of abstracting and generalizing acct creation so it will be possible to manage a separate multisig acct for each user's deposits. As they trade assets, their deposit acct balance wont correlate to their holdings, so the deposit accts add up to being a single virtual acct for the entire gateway.

I plan on balancing the multigateway deposits so that over time, it will be evenly spread out across the accounts to provide minimal incentives for hackers to try to crack multiple hardened server locations at the same time. Fragmented multisig!

If there was an independent implementation of the multisig gateway, then when all three servers come to consensus as to a withdrawal, any bug in my code wont be replicated on all the servers, so while it might take a while to totally synchronize the algorithms, it will provide yet another redundancy.

As far as NXT price goes, It is hard to imagine that NXT wont reach $1 USD at some point in the future, however NXT is under attack as evidenced by the large amount of recent trolling, some a lot more convincing than emule. Expect volatility ahead as the anti-NXT guys that have accumulated a large amount from previous spikes and dumps still have reserves. NXT represents a big threat to the establishment, bitcoin and fiat, and it does not take much to double the price or halve the price. A volatile price shakes confidence. Look at what the fiat guys did to bitcoin!

As far as active developers on major crypto goes the following is my ranking:
1) Bitcoin - not sure, but assuming there are quite a few
2) NXT - I know of at least a dozen devs, probably a lot are working in stealth mode
3) Ripple - 10 devs/tech guys https://www.ripplelabs.com/team/
4) etherium - Huh
5) counterparty - 3 devs
6) mastercoin - 3? devs not as good as counterparty but they have thousands of BTC)
7) DRK - 1 dev + 1
8  Anoncoin - 1 dev maybe 2?
9) emunie - 1 dev

There are other coins with a couple of devs, but most altcoins dont even have a single fulltime developer! I apologize to things like colored coins and others that I am sure exist, but I only use coinmarketcap to get candidates (other than ETH and emunie)
<rant>
Those of you that are not programmers, I ask a favor. Please stop complaining. It really doesnt help morale at all and it is counterproductive. If you want to help, test. If you cant test, then just lurk instead of bitching. You do want to help dont you?
</rant>
Now if you are invested in NXT to quickly double your investment, please join emule. The scope of NXT is quite a bit larger than a 3 week project. If you do not understand this, I suggest sell. If you like centralized organization, there is mastercoin and emunie for you. They are very centralized. You could always invest in XRP, but then again there is that 55 billion they have promised to giveaway, but that still leaves another 45 billion that could hit the market at any time. People complain about a few accts with 50 million NXT??? What is a few people having 5% each compared to a single organization controlling 93% of inventory???

NXT price will not go in a straight line. People will buy the rumor and sell the news, like what happened with mastercoin. It is no surprise that the price goes down when they release. The reason is that it was preannounced, everybody knew it was going to come out. So everybody who is into that sort of thing already purchased it before the release, who was left to buy it? Nobody. That is why the price went down. Day trading 101.

NXT is a currency. Yes of course it is. Everybody can see their NXT balance. There is a price in the markets. You can send NXT to people. Anybody that says NXT is not a currency is being silly.

NXT is a platform. Yes of course it is. I built nodecoin not out of thin air, but on top of NXT. It took a day of coding. This shows the power of NXT, I am just a simple C programmer. Imagine what somebody with real skills could do!

NXT is a decentralized asset exchange. Yes of course it is. We can all see it on testnet.

NXT is a <fill in the blank>. Yes of course it is. NXT enables things. NXT is like the internet. Does anybody say that email IS the internet or that the internet IS email? Is the internet http? Is http the internet? Is bittorrent the internet? Is the internet bittorent? Is ...

I hope you get the idea. There are literally a thousand things that can be built on top of NXT. One of the reasons why I starting coding again is that I wanted to create a developers kit to make it easy for other simple C programmers to create stuff. I was a little rusty at first and all this crypto decentralized stuff was new so I had a steep learning curve, but I am getting in to gear so if I can stop getting distracted by all this nonsense in this thread I could be pretty productive.

However, when there is a serious threat to NXT, I need to respond and the level of insidious undermining of confidence in NXT that is going on has gotten to a point where I have to take time out of programming.

If NXT is dead, then everything other than bitcoin is dead. BCNext is gone, but was he ever really here? Actually I dont think he was ever on this thread. In any case, jean-luc is our BCNext now. He is here to stay and if you havent noticed, he keeps cranking out release after release. His code is so nice and clean, I am even tempted to learn Java! If jean-luc was the only developer, NXT would still survive. However, we have so many more contributors. True many left for other projects, but that only makes sense if you are after the big score. Going from nothing to a few millions. Sure, nice if you can get it, but what happens when the price of the new fantastic NXT clone comes out and ** gasp ** nobody becomes a millionaire? The people that jumped ship wont stick around long as they have proven that they are quick to abandon.

Anyway, we all know that the initial distribution wasnt great. However, it is much, much better than ripple. NXT isnt perfect, it is what it is. If you dont like it, please sell and leave us in peace. For whatever its worth, it is my opinion that NXT is better than any of the alternatives and my multisig gateways and other add on services will not be available for any NXT clones, regardless of who makes them. Without real world gateways, NXT is confined to crypto land. With real world gateways, NXT can expand into the real world. The multigateway to other cryptos is just a start.

Anyway, please bookmark this or whatever and use it for anti-FUD. I am tired of repeating myself. gotta get to work

James

P.S. back to the NXT is like the internet analogy. Assuming you agree with me on that, please estimate how much owning some percentage of the actual internet would be worth. Owning NXT would be like that. Long term real estate thinking is what you need to have. NXT is raw land now, bulldozers, construction workers, big mess. If you dont like messy things, sell NXT Smiley

James you have my vote for the best post of this entire thread! Cheesy
This should be put up on the front page so everybody can see it and no one forgets it.
Thanks for everything you are doing for NXT!
ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 04:22:57 PM
 #45603


It should not only tied to the size of  the blockchain but also to the computational effort a node must perform to include this transaction.

EXACT

"Keep incentivized network"

interesting... what do you mean by computational effort?  It seems I am missing an aspect of something here.

must be distributed the cost of maintaining stimulated the "green, secure and decentralized network"

for example

Nxt% Fee per current transactions
Alias ​​Fee services (For example per bytes)
Nxt% Fee per AE transactions

and so on ....

How The network is worth to maintain?

How many minimum nodes are needed?
How much electricity does it cost?
How many minimum transactions contemplated

Well explained. Smiley
opticalcarrier
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March 18, 2014, 04:24:37 PM
 #45604


I don't want to base a decision to use a platform on some arbitrary decision that may or may not happen in the future. I have no faith in the decentralized developers to make this decision correctly in the future. I want to know now what would happen in the future before I decide to waste any more time believing in this product's potential.

Then you must also have to believe that the Devs are immune to/don't understand the effects of market forces.

Do you honestly think the fee won't change if it costs $620,000 to issue an asset (to use your example)?



Well the stance some of us are trying to make is to move to .1 as lowest fee and scale up from there based on a multiplier of how much bigger in bytes a transaction is compared to byte size of a NXT transfer.  Then in the future we just have to change 1 figure to scale everything.

But everyone  HAS to admit that .1 is high, at least for long term.  Consider BTC now and how extremely low fees are.  This is because BTC is still in mining phase now; consider what BTC will look like is 2140 when no more coins are generated and miners are then paid only in fees.  Hell, consider what will happen to mining soon when block subsidy is halved again - drastic ROI change.  Does anyone know when this happens again?

Anyway, yes .1 for now, and a sliding scale based on byte size is what we are suggesting.  With a vision for the long term of what those numbers should be lowered to.  The thought is that the lower the transaction fee, the higher the utility.
opticalcarrier
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March 18, 2014, 04:27:24 PM
 #45605


It should not only tied to the size of  the blockchain but also to the computational effort a node must perform to include this transaction.

EXACT

"Keep incentivized network"

interesting... what do you mean by computational effort?  It seems I am missing an aspect of something here.

must be distributed the cost of maintaining stimulated the "green, secure and decentralized network"

for example

Nxt% Fee per current transactions
Alias ​​Fee services (For example per bytes)
Nxt% Fee per AE transactions

and so on ....

How The network is worth to maintain?

How many minimum nodes are needed?
How much electricity does it cost?
How many minimum transactions contemplated

Well explained. Smiley

I dont understand a bit how these correlate to any defined computational effort.  How are some transactions more computationally intense than others?  Also, consider that AM are periodically purged, so perhaps their fee structure should be a little different somehow?  (smaller, larger, not sure)

FTR, I am 100% against charging fees based on amount of NXT being transferred.
Eadeqa
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March 18, 2014, 04:29:25 PM
 #45606

But everyone  HAS to admit that .1 is high, at least for long term.  Consider BTC now and how extremely low fees are.  This is because BTC is still in mining phase now; consider what BTC will look like is 2140 when no more coins are generated and miners are then paid only in fees.  Hell, consider what will happen to mining soon when block subsidy is halved again - drastic ROI change.  Does anyone know when this happens again?

BTC is POW coin and will still require computation/electricity once the mining phase is over.  It costs me absolutely nothing to run Nxt software on my computer, as my system is already running regardless if I run nxt node or not, and my bandwidth is unlimited.
 

Nomi, Shan, Adnan, Noshi, Nxt, Adn Khn
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https://github.com/Lafihh/encryptiontest
msin
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March 18, 2014, 04:31:30 PM
 #45607


I don't want to base a decision to use a platform on some arbitrary decision that may or may not happen in the future. I have no faith in the decentralized developers to make this decision correctly in the future. I want to know now what would happen in the future before I decide to waste any more time believing in this product's potential.

Then you must also have to believe that the Devs are immune to/don't understand the effects of market forces.

Do you honestly think the fee won't change if it costs $620,000 to issue an asset (to use your example)?


Personally I value BrianNowhere's opinion.  Although I would like to see him offer some more solutions rather than state how Ripple is better in this way or that.  On a side note, I personally know several of the Ripple Lab developers here in the silicon valley.  I don't trust Ripple, they are a for profit company backed by VC's, they have a stockpile of reserve Ripple to use whenever they want.  They can issue new Ripple whenever they want.  They can be shut down by the US government at any moment and all be arrested.  They could be acquired by Google tomorrow.  They have close to zero street credibility.  They didn't release their source code until they were all but dead and completely discredited. There are no Ripple enthusiasts (other than BrianNowhere  Wink  Emunie has so many issues and the UK government can arrest Dan tomorrow and the project is dead, totally closed source, and price controlled.  I like Nxt for all the reasons they are not Ripple or Emunie.  At this point I wouldn't care if Nxt goes to $1Mil marketcap, it's about focusing on usability and projects like DAC, NxtCash, Nodecoin, AT, Parallel Blockchain, CCT get me excited.  That is my opinion.
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March 18, 2014, 04:36:54 PM
Last edit: March 18, 2014, 05:03:17 PM by punkrock
 #45608

>>> Official sales thread and more pictures<<<

Price per item: 800 NXT / 0.05 BTC
Available items: 20

Worldwide shipping from Germany.


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March 18, 2014, 04:38:09 PM
 #45609

msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.
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March 18, 2014, 04:38:13 PM
 #45610

But everyone  HAS to admit that .1 is high, at least for long term.  Consider BTC now and how extremely low fees are.  This is because BTC is still in mining phase now; consider what BTC will look like is 2140 when no more coins are generated and miners are then paid only in fees.  Hell, consider what will happen to mining soon when block subsidy is halved again - drastic ROI change.  Does anyone know when this happens again?

BTC is POW coin and will still require computation/electricity once the mining phase is over.  It costs me absolutely nothing to run Nxt software on my computer, as my system is already running regardless if I run nxt node or not, and my bandwidth is unlimited.
 

It's funny the other day I was on my dedicated Nxt node forging computer (I often forget it's even on), it's a Gigabyte Brix that sits in the corner of my desk.  I decided to sync my Bitcoin wallet on the same machine.  When I opened bitcoin-qt I thought my Brix was going to explode.  CPU 100%, Fan running full blast, everything completely slow.  I quickly shutdown bitcoin-qt and let the machine relax running Nxt.  I then sent out some Nxt donations which went out instantly and sat back and drank a beer, wondering why BTC is so popular.
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March 18, 2014, 04:40:19 PM
 #45611

msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Only idiots care about market cap. It's a meaningless number.
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March 18, 2014, 04:42:13 PM
 #45612

community input needed:

Unique names for assets? For example : BLABLA (only issued once)

Or non unique names for assets?

For example: BLABLA 12423434 and BLABLA 343434334  (you only choose BLABLA, the rest is the asset id - automatically generated)

(Perhaps, I'm not sure, the number can be shortened..)

If you have another idea, please specify.

I like what James proposed, no need to change Nxt core. When account creates first asset, client can create poll for the account and attach poolId end of every asset description that is created by that account. And client can get feedbacks from pollId to measure trust for that accountID and present it to user on AE window.
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March 18, 2014, 04:43:06 PM
 #45613

It's funny the other day I was on my dedicated Nxt node forging computer (I often forget it's even on), it's a Gigabyte Brix that sits in the corner of my desk.  I decided to sync my Bitcoin wallet on the same machine.  When I opened bitcoin-qt I thought my Brix was going to explode.  CPU 100%, Fan running full blast, everything completely slow.  I quickly shutdown bitcoin-qt and let the machine relax running Nxt.  I then sent out some Nxt donations which went out instantly and sat back and drank a beer, wondering why BTC is so popular.
Aaahh.. bedtime-stories  Cheesy
ChuckOne
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March 18, 2014, 04:43:15 PM
 #45614

I dont understand a bit how these correlate to any defined computational effort.  How are some transactions more computationally intense than others?  Also, consider that AM are periodically purged, so perhaps their fee structure should be a little different somehow?  (smaller, larger, not sure)

It is just effort to be done by a node. That effort is related to how efficient the implementation is. Each machine instruction of that node requires electricity. So, storing the blockchain, broadcasting the blockchain, creating new blocks etc. etc. everything of it requires electricity. Nothing is for free.

That is the node provider needs to be reimbursed adequately by the amount of effort he has put in to build up and maintaining his node.

One could consider the fees and the expenditures of a node provider as an implicit market. That is: expensive nodes require higher fees. People want lower fees, so only the nodes that can afford these low fees will process the incoming transactions. As node providers want to people to send their transactions to their nodes, they will workaround until they can provide such cheap nodes. On the other hand, if no node provides such low fees, people's transactions will not be distributed or included in a block, so people are willing to raise the fees.

Supply and demand will drive the fee negotiation in the long term.

FTR, I am 100% against charging fees based on amount of NXT being transferred.

Agreed.
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March 18, 2014, 04:43:42 PM
 #45615

msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Yes, my point was that I'm holding onto my Nxt until I can spend it on something I want (a house, a boat, an island).  I have never sold 1 Nxt, only bought.  I never will sell Nxt, I will only buy things with Nxt.  If you want the price to increase, focus on developing DAC, NxtCash, AT, Parallel Blockchains, CCT.  We can't market what we don't have.  Build new features and they will come.   I can email Marc Andreessen and tell him to buy Nxt but he won't buy Nxt because he thinks the market price will go up, he will buy Nxt because he thinks 10Mil people will be using it.  
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March 18, 2014, 04:43:55 PM
 #45616

Thanks for the personal insult El3k0n.

Nxt Funds have NXT. If NXT is worth 1/32 of what it is worth today, then Nxt Funds have 1/32 of the actual dollars or Euros or gold or whatever to pay real devs, server costs, etc.



msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Only idiots care about market cap. It's a meaningless number.
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March 18, 2014, 04:46:03 PM
 #45617

msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Only idiots care about market cap. It's a meaningless number.

It attracts new speculators/buyers who buy things that they think is growing.

Nomi, Shan, Adnan, Noshi, Nxt, Adn Khn
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March 18, 2014, 04:46:44 PM
 #45618

But everyone  HAS to admit that .1 is high, at least for long term.  Consider BTC now and how extremely low fees are.  This is because BTC is still in mining phase now; consider what BTC will look like is 2140 when no more coins are generated and miners are then paid only in fees.  Hell, consider what will happen to mining soon when block subsidy is halved again - drastic ROI change.  Does anyone know when this happens again?

BTC is POW coin and will still require computation/electricity once the mining phase is over.  It costs me absolutely nothing to run Nxt software on my computer, as my system is already running regardless if I run nxt node or not, and my bandwidth is unlimited.
 

ok, good, we're getting somewhere...

So are you saying that as subsidy declines, we should expect BTC's fee per transaction to rise?  Its obvious that right now, NXT fees are fairly high when compared to BTC's fees.  .1 fee right now equates to around $0.003/transaction, a good start.  But if we want to beat BTC, we'll have to do better.
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March 18, 2014, 04:50:11 PM
 #45619

Thanks for the personal insult El3k0n.

Nxt Funds have NXT. If NXT is worth 1/32 of what it is worth today, then Nxt Funds have 1/32 of the actual dollars or Euros or gold or whatever to pay real devs, server costs, etc.



msin, I agree with you on every point you made except the part where you said you wouldn't mind if the Nxt market cap went to $1 mil.

Nxt whales have already taken $18 million of market cap out of Nxt from 50 million to 32 million today. Nxt needs new investors and needs the market cap to grow NOW. Nxt needs that market cap (price of NXT) to grow in order to attract new investors.

NXT Whales. Stop Dumping and give Nxt time to release AE. Thanks. You've taken your profit. Now invest in the future of Nxt.

Only idiots care about market cap. It's a meaningless number.

Sorry, I didn't want to say you're an idiot. I meant that only idiots care about market cap when making an investment. No serious trader/investor would base his decision on the market cap, because it doesn't mean anything.
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March 18, 2014, 04:50:14 PM
 #45620

It attracts new speculators/buyers who buy things that they think is growing.

I think it will also improve NXT's attractiveness and publicity. That is basically a good thing.
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