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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2755395 times)
windjc
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March 18, 2014, 05:57:27 AM
 #45461

Ok. Then explain the incentive to be a POS stakeholder if you can't earn fees and your Nxt is basically worthless? And please answer something besides "you can sell a product as an asset."

There *will always be fees* even if they have to be reduced quite a lot down the track.

How will POS fee rewards compare to say a "bank account" - not sure although already a large % of people get 0% return from their bank accounts so there is still at least some attraction to "having stake" and leasing out your "forging rights".

Always - to earn money you would be best to work and/or invest wisely.

Consider perhaps "buying Asset shares" if you see a promising listing.


I'm sorry. I just don't think you live in reality. While you test the AE, the majority of the community is working to develop Nxt as a currency so that it has real value growth AND can exist as both a currency and a platform. And that majority isnt going to change because most of them want to promote their current investment, not a future investment of someone else with an asset to sell.

Now, your model may evolve over time and there might be a day where it could work that way. But that would only be through evolution.

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.
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March 18, 2014, 05:59:25 AM
 #45462

NXt just like XRP is the only trust-less currency that exists in the system, therefore there is a potential for value, depending on the value of the entire ecosystem. All other assets issued are worth only what you can trust the issuer for.

I agree.  NXT derives some of its value because it is the trustless intermediate currency in the NXT ecosystem.















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CIYAM
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March 18, 2014, 05:59:57 AM
 #45463

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.

It wasn't *my idea* to create a "2nd Gen" crypto "platform" but that is what we have (so pretending it is just like LTC is not going to work).

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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martismartis
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March 18, 2014, 06:00:15 AM
 #45464

I think @salsacz was thinking about having the NXT core itself his mobile phone.
I wanted to know if this video will be truthful: http://youtu.be/cP4KFH6Iz0g?t=37s (Nxt cryptocurrency: green energy (green coin mining) )

Yep, I know. Smiley

It requires NXT core on the mobile phone. Otherwise, you would not forge ON your mobile phone. Wink

Theoretically it is possible to forge on smartphone, but it's complicated for now. I can forge on my Android TV stick, but need to root it and install ubuntu on it. For now my TV stick works as public node. I tried to do the same thing with my Xperia Arc, but with no luck, NRS kills the ubuntu on it. I don't know it is memory or processor related. It's quit old smartphone, but I didn't try on newer ones.
windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:00:55 AM
 #45465

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.


You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".
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March 18, 2014, 06:02:02 AM
 #45466

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.


You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Why waste ur time guys?
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March 18, 2014, 06:03:25 AM
 #45467

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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CIYAM
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March 18, 2014, 06:04:48 AM
 #45468

Why waste ur time guys?

Indeed it can get a little tedious in this topic.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:09:49 AM
 #45469

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.


Right. But you assume that the cost to make a transaction would always be 1 Nxt. Unless this is an ultimatum that cannot ever change, then I am not sure why this matters.

Also, I am not sure why Nxt would be best served to be a platform for micro transactions. Seems very limiting.

2Kool4Skewl
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March 18, 2014, 06:12:23 AM
 #45470

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.


This is the reason why NXT's tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.















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windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:12:31 AM
 #45471

The value of NXT *can never be very high* as it is basically just *fuel* to run the engine. There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who just "don't get this" (perhaps because "greed" is blinding them to reality).

I'm just going to let this reverberate here for a while. I don't even know what to say to this...yet

Good - let it "sink in" and hopefully a few others will too.


If you have powers to predict markets so well you could make a lot of money on Wall St. Crypto-currency is kind of a new thing by the way and everything about it is unprecedented. The halls of history are lined with the skins of those who thought they could predict the market and I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to say you can predict with certainty what Nxt will be worth.  Market forces are unpredictable, based on emotions, crowd mentality and many other factors including economic, financial and political. If math and market caps could predict everything about markets there's be no Stock market.  

NXt just like XRP is the only trust-less currency that exists in the system, therefore there is a potential for value, depending on the value of the entire ecosystem. All other assets issued are worth only what you can trust the issuer for.

I think I'm starting to see the deep distaste that some in the Nxt development community have for speculators: ie: NXt investors. I find it very concerning and I'm hoping others might pipe in here.








I think the issue is more that both investors and developers when they argue, both have good points.

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.
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March 18, 2014, 06:13:30 AM
 #45472

Right. But you assume that the cost to make a transaction would always be 1 Nxt. Unless this is an ultimatum that cannot ever change, then I am not sure why this matters.

At the moment it does - and soon it will likely change to being 0.1 (from memory that was what was most popular) - so as I said some smart math guy could probably come up with some sort of formula that involves the "available supply" of Nxt and the number of transactions and predict the likely value of it (not me though as I am not so good with math).

Micro transactions are really not something that any blockchain is going to handle perfectly although with Nxt the idea of being able to regularly *shrink* the blockchain will certainly make it a better option than say Bitcoin.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:13:43 AM
 #45473

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.


This is part of the reason why the NXT tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.

Agreed. This idea that Nxt cannot be a currency AND a platform is so very odd to me. Bitcoin is both. Albiet a different platform.
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March 18, 2014, 06:15:21 AM
 #45474

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.

In no way am I trying to "be condescending" - just pointing out that NXT is not like LTC or other Bitcoin clones (so investors should be aware of this and what being a "platform" implies).

If people have invested in NXT thinking it is just like LTC then they have "not done their due diligence".

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:15:44 AM
 #45475

Going around telling people to accept the fact that Nxt won't be worth much just because you have a vision for it that you desire, is disingenious and and really is just counter productive.

I am doing no such thing - I am simply pointing out that the "market will decide" what the value of NXT will be and what the "parameters" are.


You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Why waste ur time guys?


Your condescension only reflects on you. If you dismiss my points out of hand, you are too narrow minded to be a leader in the Nxt movement. Not that you can't serve other purposes.
windjc
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March 18, 2014, 06:16:55 AM
 #45476

But as I do not think investors should run around complaining about or celebrating prices, I also don't think developers should condescendingly dismiss investors concerns.

Investors are the marketers, the mouth pieces for innovation. Bitcoin, had there been no promise of value, no speculators, would not exists as it does today if at all.

In no way am I trying to "be condescending" - just pointing out that NXT is not like LTC or other Bitcoin clones (so investors should be aware of this and what being a "platform" implies).


But, again, you seem to dismiss Nxt as a currency (and it should be pointed out that those "clones" are not good currency options).  Makes no sense. It can exist as both, despite the original developers initial intentions, if we even know what those were/are.
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March 18, 2014, 06:18:02 AM
 #45477

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.


This is part of the reason why the NXT tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.

Agreed. This idea that Nxt cannot be a currency AND a platform is so very odd to me. Bitcoin is both. Albiet a different platform.

I don't think Ian dismissed the fact that NXT is both a currency and a platform.  You can't have one without the other.















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March 18, 2014, 06:18:09 AM
 #45478

If you have powers to predict markets so well you could make a lot of money on Wall St.

I don't have such powers although I did make quite a bit of money from a few well chosen stocks (such as Sun Microsystems back in the early 90's).

I am "no hippie" but I do *get* what Nxt actually *is*. It is *not* another "pump and dump copy coin" but instead a *platform*.

Right from the start Nxt was presented without the word "coin" and this among other things was *deliberate*.



You could unzip your pants and stick your wang in the Nasdaq in the 90's and make money. I don't think Mr. Buffet or Soros has to worry about being dethroned anytime soon.

Well I'm glad we've had this discussion and I understand more now what I've suspected for a while now about both Nxt and Ripple, which is that both believe they can exist in a vacuum somehow unencumbered by market forces.

At least Ripple has made their system scalable. If the price of XRp went up the fees would still be infinitesimal.  You seem to not be worried at all about contingency in case you are wrong,  which is something I would think any good programmer should always be thinking about and why I say it's very concerning to me.

You seem to be sending a strong SELL message. Not sure if you care, but that's what I'm getting. I can just wait for the new assets to come out, no reason to stick around, is pretty much what you are saying.

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March 18, 2014, 06:20:04 AM
 #45479

But, again, you seem to dismiss Nxt as a currency.  Makes no sense. It can exist as both, despite the original developers initial intentions, if we even know what those were/are.

And *again* you are "putting words in my mouth" (I wish you wouldn't do that as I am not doing that to you).

Firstly Nxt =/= NXT they are two different things.

Nxt is the platform and NXT is the "fuel" that it runs on - these are just the plain facts that I am stating.

So NXT *is* a crypto-currency but *it is not equivalent to LTC and other Bitcoin clones*. You can only compare "apples to apples".

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

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March 18, 2014, 06:20:24 AM
 #45480

You said "The value of NXT *can never be very high".

Yes - but what is *very* - hardly a "specific" number right?

Logically if 1 NXT is 1 USD right now then no-one would use the Nxt platform as it would cost you 1 USD to send 1 USD.


This is the reason why NXT's tx fee should be reduced.  Low tx fees encourages NXT to be used as a platform and will help support its price.
+1. I'm an active forger and supporter of 0.01 fee at the moment

Selling Qora for 5 satoshi each.
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