NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Daedelus]

What this guy recently learned is wrong; Nxt is not Turing-complete.  Nxt AT is planned to be Turing-complete, but it is a layer on top of Nxt.

Nxt AT?

Automated Transactions I *think*. CIYAM is developing them as it will allow dividends to be paid, he has an interest bearing bond in mind that will be popular IIRC.

Edit: darn it Joe, too quick!

[msin]

People, how it is possible to trade in AE not with NXT?

This is a discussion about semantics.

At the HEART, you CAN'T.  But:

- Litecoin can trade on AE via Nxt
- Bitcoin can trade on AE via Nxt
- therefore a service can calculate the cost of Litecoin in Bitcoin and trade them against one another. Nxt is invisible.

Think more like a chess player

Of course someone could build something on top of Nxt/AE and people would shout "OMG you can buy unicorn assets with gobbleschmoggles". But that would involve another entity on top of Nxt AE. Please don't confuse people with a semantic discussion

Let's get this straight for everyone: Trading assets on AE runs only with NXT.

edit: moon.

Exactly, regardless of how much is built on top of Nxt (which I hope a lot) Nxt will still be the gold standard, backing everything.  

[joefox]

Re-posting my Public Service Announcement:
(... because I haven't posted it in almost 500 pages of posts here...)

If you are new to Nxt and don't want to read through 2420 pages of posts, come to the wiki, parts of which are now available in nineteen languages:
- Learn about Nxt
- Get started
- get basic questions answered in the FAQ and common problems pages
- Learn how to set up a public node on a VPS
- read up on the Nxt high-level API, which you can use to build apps, games, clients, utilities, and more
- find additional resources for programmers, including suggested methods for integrating Nxt with your sites, API documentation, software change logs, a PHP library, and more.
- check out the current draft version of the Nxt whitepaper, which is being built and refined by top community contributors (it's still rough, but there's lots of great content already)

There are also great forums with lots of info and support for beginners. Many of the best Nxt wiki articles are based on information originally contributed here:
- The nxtcrypto.org forum
- The nextcoin.org forum

... and don't forget our other Nxt sites (and these are just the English ones):
- Summaries of this thread
- http://www.nxtclients.org
- http://www.nxtcrypto.org
- http://mynxt.org
- http://nxtarea.com/

Wiki contributors help to pull information from these threads every day to keep the wiki up to date. You can help too!! contribute, or translate.

[msin]

Yes, but the problem there is conflict of interest as it is owned by a business.
Other exchanges can not post there freely as they would be posting on a competitors forum.

We're working on a solution already
Give it a few days  

I am glad to hear that. Back in the day, I started posting on there, until they censored the thread about trading on Peercover. But the only alternative -- at nxtcrypto.org has an admin that disappeared months ago.

I will start a thread on nextcoin.org and if the new forums come online, will try to move discussion there.

I like using Damelon's summary thread site, it points to several smaller specific Nxt threads.  http://www.nxtcoins.nl/bitcointalk-threads/

[Damelon]

Re-posting my Public Service Announcement:
(... because I haven't posted it in almost 500 pages of posts here...)

If you are new to Nxt and don't want to read through 2420 pages of posts, come to the wiki, parts of which are now available in nineteen languages:
- Learn about Nxt
- Get started
- get basic questions answered in the FAQ and common problems pages
- Learn how to set up a public node on a VPS
- read up on the Nxt high-level API, which you can use to build apps, games, clients, utilities, and more
- find additional resources for programmers, including suggested methods for integrating Nxt with your sites, API documentation, software change logs, a PHP library, and more.
- check out the current draft version of the Nxt whitepaper, which is being built and refined by top community contributors (it's still rough, but there's lots of great content already)

There are also great forums with lots of info and support for beginners. Many of the best Nxt wiki articles are based on information originally contributed here:
- The nxtcrypto.org forum
- The nextcoin.org forum

... and don't forget our Nxt sites (and these are just the English ones):
- http://www.nxtcrypto.org
- http://mynxt.org
- http://nxtarea.com/

Wiki contributors help to pull information from these threads every day to keep the wiki up to date. You can help too!! contribute, or translate.

I've missed these!
Welcome back!

[L5Society]

Is there a difference between CCT and Atomic CCT?

Sorry, I'm too dumb to answer confidently.

[IveBeenBit]

I started a discussion for those interested in keeping up with the asset exchange here: https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4479.0.html

Come on over and join the discussion if this interests you!

Hopefully we can get Wesley to follow and participate in the thread.

[Sebastien256]

I started a discussion for those interested in keeping up with the asset exchange here: https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4479.0.html

Come on over and join the discussion if this interests you!

Hopefully we can get Wesley to follow and participate in the thread.

there is also this thread that concern AE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=460343.0

Important threads can be also be found there: http://www.nxtcoins.nl/bitcointalk-threads/

[msin]

Is there a difference between CCT and Atomic CCT?

Sorry, I'm too dumb to answer confidently.

When we refer to CCT for Nxt, we are always referring to Atomic CCT

CCT:
Simply if we decide to trade Bitcoin for Litecoin and I send you BTC and you send me LTC.  You can chose not to send me LTC after you receive BTC, so I get scammed.

Atomic CCT (utilizes and alt chain):
1. Bob create and sign the transaction as usual and compute its txid. He sends txid and the transaction body with input scripts/signature blanked to Alice.
2. Alice computes hash of the blanked body, call it blankhash, and constructs transaction with special bitcointxid (blankhash,txid) opcode. Broadcasts the transaction to altchain.
3. Bob waits for altchain tx to confirm and verify its outputs are as previously agreed - at that point he sends the "uncensored" Bitcoin tx to Alice who'll broadcast it. Alice is therefore credited the bitcoin funds, which in turn validate altchain transaction at the same time (this is the atomic point).
4. Note that bob releases his tx only if he is sufficiently confident the altchain will not reorg its transactions, thus possibly double spend. This might imply that *many* confirmations in altchain should come first, however during that time each of them might decide to cancel the trade with no further consequences.

[Daedelus]

Is there a difference between CCT and Atomic CCT?

Sorry, I'm too dumb to answer confidently.

When we refer to CCT for Nxt, we are always referring to Atomic CCT

CCT:
Simply if we decide to trade Bitcoin for Litecoin and I send you BTC and you send me LTC.  You can chose not to send me LTC after you receive BTC, so I get scammed.

Atomic CCT:
1. Bob create and sign the transaction as usual and compute its txid. He sends txid and the transaction body with input scripts/signature blanked to Alice.
2. Alice computes hash of the blanked body, call it blankhash, and constructs transaction with special bitcointxid (blankhash,txid) opcode. Broadcasts the transaction to altchain.
3. Bob waits for altchain tx to confirm and verify its outputs are as previously agreed - at that point he sends the "uncensored" Bitcoin tx to Alice who'll broadcast it. Alice is therefore credited the bitcoin funds, which in turn validate altchain transaction at the same time (this is the atomic point).
4. Note that bob releases his tx only if he is sufficiently confident the altchain will not reorg its transactions, thus possibly double spend. This might imply that *many* confirmations in altchain should come first, however during that time each of them might decide to cancel the trade with no further consequences.

For CCT above, this can be done on a trading thread. I was under the impression that CCT was a bridge between otherwise incompatible blockchains.i.e a nxt transaction is sent > *magic happens* > transaction appears on bitcoin chain? So all chains could eventually 'talk' to each other. Sounds like this is actually atomic CCT.

Atomic CCT are basically trustless escrows?

Edit: I was being rushed to complete this post. I will reply again once I've had time to compose my thoughts better.

[S3MKi]

When we will see nexern client?

[salsacz]

Some news from Ethereum marketing

http://youtu.be/wMBtKMZYdN8 Ethereum: Your turn

[verymuchso]

What is the logic behind allowing multiple assets with the same name?
How are client developers supposed to deal with this?

[apenzl]

---and some news from Nxter.org.

NXT Newsletter #6

http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-6/

I'm still missing some pages, but had to release. What's not in this newsletter will be in next week's. Only got 24 hours and all that. 

Enjoy.

/apenzl

[msin]

Is there a difference between CCT and Atomic CCT?

Sorry, I'm too dumb to answer confidently.

When we refer to CCT for Nxt, we are always referring to Atomic CCT

CCT:
Simply if we decide to trade Bitcoin for Litecoin and I send you BTC and you send me LTC.  You can chose not to send me LTC after you receive BTC, so I get scammed.

Atomic CCT:
1. Bob create and sign the transaction as usual and compute its txid. He sends txid and the transaction body with input scripts/signature blanked to Alice.
2. Alice computes hash of the blanked body, call it blankhash, and constructs transaction with special bitcointxid (blankhash,txid) opcode. Broadcasts the transaction to altchain.
3. Bob waits for altchain tx to confirm and verify its outputs are as previously agreed - at that point he sends the "uncensored" Bitcoin tx to Alice who'll broadcast it. Alice is therefore credited the bitcoin funds, which in turn validate altchain transaction at the same time (this is the atomic point).
4. Note that bob releases his tx only if he is sufficiently confident the altchain will not reorg its transactions, thus possibly double spend. This might imply that *many* confirmations in altchain should come first, however during that time each of them might decide to cancel the trade with no further consequences.

For CCT above, this can be done on a trading thread. I was under the impression that CCT was a bridge between otherwise incompatible blockchains.i.e a nxt transaction is sent > *magic happens* > transaction appears on bitcoin chain? So all chains could eventually 'talk' to each other. Sounds like this is actually atomic CCT.

Atomic CCT are basically trustless escrows?

Yes, CCT just means you are trading two different coins.  That's it.  Your impression is of Atomic CCT, where the "magic happens" and it would basically utilize AT and Parallel Block Chain to work, from my understanding.  

[apenzl]

Re-posting my Public Service Announcement:
(... because I haven't posted it in almost 500 pages of posts here...)

... and don't forget our other Nxt sites (and these are just the English ones):
- Summaries of this thread
- http://www.nxtclients.org
- http://www.nxtcrypto.org
- http://mynxt.org
- http://nxtarea.com/

Hmprf….

I should spend more time promoting myself instead of Nxt…. 

[allwelder]

http://hashrate.org just paid out it's third payout.  (http://hashrate.org/payouts.html)
Five miners took home over 100 NxT, two miners took home over 200 NxT and one took home over 400 NxT
Start mining for NxT today!

just curious.
How to mine Nxt with specialized rig?

[jl777]

Could be a deadcat bounce. Still a lot of selling power.

Once the exchange goes live a lot of new people will show interest in NXT. There are some people worried about paper losses too much IMO. It's only a loss if you sell for less than you bought. I'm sitting on paper losses too, but I'm not going to sell until at least 1 NXT=1USD. The deadcat bounce is Auroacoin IMO

I agree. It's amazing how jittery many in this young community seem to be about price. The alt coin world is so spoiled with the idea of instantaneous profits. Not many think long term and amazingly even long term is defined most of the time as <12 months.

Thats because of all the "every type of altcoin going" pump and dump mentality. People are starting to realise nxt has never been a pump and dump coin. Now all you see is pumping and dumping of the alt clones to transfer to nxt. If anything Nxt has given a purpose for the alt clones and thats is pumping them to dump for nxt. alts are a way for people to obtain nxt without putting up fiat. imo any ways. i personally mine alts to swap for ghs at cex or buy nxt with em and thats it. nxt is my gold stash lol

And now we have 2 pools www.hashrate.org and www.nxtp00l.org i dont even have to handle to alts lol

who runs the p00l site? why do most addresses end with 3 zeros? might this be a bug and he pays out to invalid addresses?

I'm not sure, but I noticed it too.

This is my address under 'Online Users':7606968008269260975. This is correct.
Under 'Payouts' it looks like this:         7606968008269261000.

The last 4 digits are wrong. Not sure why this would be intentional, but maybe I'm an idiot.

it looks like a precision error rounding the last four digits into a single one 0975 -> 1

[jl777]

[Math Lesson]

I want to explain some things that are very clear to me, but it seems that almost everybody else has come to the opposite conclusion. So, either my math is wrong, or nobody else has done the math.

The question is do we want everything in AE to be traded via NXT.

joefox is only partially correct that if the market wants this we cant stop a layer that hides the AssetA <-> NXT <-> AssetB transaction. If the market really wants this, there will be AssetA <-> AssetB direct trading. I already know how to do this.

Before you start slamming out a reply, please bear with me. I have a clarifying example.

Q1. Do you want USD assets to exist within NXT AE?

If you answered no, they you can skip reading the rest of this post and start flaming away. If you think having USD assets in AE might actually benefit NXT, here is

Q2. How much USD assets do you want deposited into NXT AE?
a) $100,000 USD
b) $1 million USD
c) $1 billion USD

If you answered a) or b), stop reading and start flaming away. If you answered c)

Q3. If all AE trades are denominated in NXT, then how do you propose actually dealing with $1 billion USD deposit.

If you can post a coherent answer to Q3 other than "NXT will be worth $10 billion and it will easily absorb $1 billion" then I might change my mind. I am not an economist, just a simple C programmer. When I write a program to deal with $1 billion of assets, but only have $30 to $50 million of NXT total and much, much, much less in active circulation, my conclusion is that if we limit AE trading to being just NXT, we will be lucky to have $1 million USD of assets deposited.

Q4. Are you still 100% sure that you want to restrict all AE trading to be in NXT?

James

[allwelder]

http://hashrate.org just paid out it's third payout.  (http://hashrate.org/payouts.html)
Five miners took home over 100 NxT, two miners took home over 200 NxT and one took home over 400 NxT
Start mining for NxT today!

I got 151 yesterday, and 147 this morning. keep it up!

haha,good luck