NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[marcus03]

I think from your list of possible features "anonymous transactions" would be the killer feature.

Not just the possibility to use some kind of mixing service, but actually changing pseudo anonymity to real anonymity. It is beyond me to say if this is possible, but if it is and gets implemented, NXT will explode (not (just) the price, but adoption, resources and everything else).

+1

And thanks for replying.

Zerocoin is better than plain mixing, making progress

+10

Keep us posted!

[jl777]

Although the Nxt Asset Exchange will be a useful addition I think that we are missing something that could be much more useful (and perhaps a "killer" addition) and that is "atomic cross-chain crypto-currency transfers" (some of you would recall I've already mentioned it).

As far as I can tell no-one has actually built such a system and also so far I can't even tell if such a transfer using TierNolan's approach (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading) has ever actually been tested (if anyone has a link that shows such a transaction having taken place then I'd be very interested to see it).

IMO this would really be a "game changer" as it could allow people to trade crypto's directly without an exchange and without risk (beyond having to wait for the "refund" problem that is necessary for TierNolan's solution in case the trade doesn't get finalised).

It wouldn't work fast enough to do "day trading" but for those not in a huge rush the promise of 100% secure transactions with only minimal blockchain fees would be pretty appealing.

What do you guys think?

Of course I agree, 100000 NXT bounty attached so solution
I also think another related solution is using AE for all the trading and then we just need decentralized gateways. In some ways that will be more efficient. People can trade crypto to any other crypto using AE and all the deposits (much easier) and withdrawals (much harder) are decentralized, trustless and automated

[Come-from-Beyond]

It will lose a lot of prestige value if you are not included. Will you forbid jean-luc from even just listing BCNext on the first line and Come-from-Beyond on the second line? We dont have to have any other text

I can't prove that BCNext is against any mention of his name in "credits" coz genesis account passphrase is cracked, just believe me. I'm against including my name into the "credits" too.

[jl777]

Why we need crypto-currency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717

thats bullshit.. your money so you can withdraw what ever you want! id have a shit attack if my bank said i couldnt withdraw my own money in person in the bank.. id understand a few hundred thou or a million but not just a couple thou... there all goin buyin bitcoin from zipzap lol

Yeah, it's scary.  If a well capitalised bank like HSBC is not letting customers withdrawal 7,000, then the finance world is in a really bad state!

That's not a conspiracy theorist article either--- it's BBC!

ya every thing is made out to be fine and dandy an by the time the majority of people find out theres a serious problem, its too late. if i was that guy i would withdraw every penny from his bank accounts even if it ment going into the bank everyday for a week! shits guna hit the fan sometime this year.. i just hope everyone sees it coming and gets out (not guna happen)

edit: BOO YAA in yo face! check mate apple! your move! http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/07/millennius-stops-all-sales-iphones-protest-apple-removal-blockchain-info-ios-app/

cash is slowly becoming illegal, govts want all transactions for everything in a handy database file on all of us
They have made it so USA citizens cant open bank accounts overseas anymore using strong arm tactics to enforce their REGULATIONS onto other countries. The violation of sovereign rights by america is a sign of the desperate means it will go to in order to bury under the rug its inability to pay for the interest on debt. This summer is estimated critical point, though if they sold the Grand Canyon to Disney, maybe they can delay it for a bit. Regardless new regulations will hit this summer that will effectively prevent taking USD out of america. Hence the war on bitcoin via regulations will continue to get worse and worse

[jl777]

doesnt this mean its illegal to sell anything on craigslist? i mean would it be different if someone sold their bicoins on craigslist instead of localbitcoins? are bitcoins legally speaking any different from any other good that you might buy on craigslist?

It's the dollar amount.  They ran up against anti-money laundering laws.

The feds have an amount ($10,000) and states and local jurisdictions may have their own laws on the subject too.

It's a mine-field for those of us in the US.

so then people buying cars for > 10,000 on craigslist are breaking the law?

I don't believe so since a car is a physical good.  It has to do with money-for-money transmission/exchange.

OWOW bitcoin is considered money in the us now?

No, but accepting $10,000 is under money laundering laws.

FC! See you can make useful posts. I am proud of you!!

I do believe if you buy (or sell) a car for $10001 one or both ** could ** be prosecuted to the full extent of law. Such a nice friendly country america is. Come to america, spend you vacation here. Just dont spend too much money!

[jl777]

rofl. i completely missed that thread where i was mentioned like a dozen times

U should monetize ur reputation. If u were a fiat gateway operator for Asset Exchange, u would help the community a lot. I would accept dollars issued by u without any doubt. Think of such a business plz...

Anybody that runs a fiat gateway in USA will be regulated until they stop it. We need somebody who is outside of US jurisdiction and willing to never enter USA, preferably from a country without extradition treaty. I doubt they will go so far as to extradite someone over running a fiat gateway, but you never know...

[jl777]

It will lose a lot of prestige value if you are not included. Will you forbid jean-luc from even just listing BCNext on the first line and Come-from-Beyond on the second line? We dont have to have any other text

I can't prove that BCNext is against any mention of his name in "credits" coz genesis account passphrase is cracked, just believe me. I'm against including my name into the "credits" too.

OK, I believe you. I guess no point for this API call then

[msin]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

[autumnyellow152]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-01/27/bitcloud
http://maidsafe.net/

Any new ideas here? Decentralized internet and cloud services based on the (Nxt) platform, coupled  with a currency and a Proof of Work (or Service) system, that gives the users an initiative to provide space and resources?

[Come-from-Beyond]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-01/27/bitcloud
http://maidsafe.net/

Any new ideas here? Decentralized internet and cloud services based on the (Nxt) platform, coupled  with a currency and a Proof of Work (or Service) system, that gives the users an initiative to provide space and resources?

Looks similar to Nxt Service Providers.

[EvilDave]

doesnt this mean its illegal to sell anything on craigslist? i mean would it be different if someone sold their bicoins on craigslist instead of localbitcoins? are bitcoins legally speaking any different from any other good that you might buy on craigslist?

It's the dollar amount.  They ran up against anti-money laundering laws.

The feds have an amount ($10,000) and states and local jurisdictions may have their own laws on the subject too.

It's a mine-field for those of us in the US.

so then people buying cars for > 10,000 on craigslist are breaking the law?

I don't believe so since a car is a physical good.  It has to do with money-for-money transmission/exchange.

OWOW bitcoin is considered money in the us now?

No, but accepting $10,000 is under money laundering laws.

FC! See you can make useful posts. I am proud of you!!

I do believe if you buy (or sell) a car for $10001 one or both ** could ** be prosecuted to the full extent of law. Such a nice friendly country america is. Come to america, spend you vacation here. Just dont spend too much money!

That is insane.
What is happening to Charlie Shrem is also crazy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435059.0

If that happened in Russia, u can bet your sweet ass that the US gov would immediately call it a politically motivated and malicious arrest.

[jl777]

Here is my idea for avoiding blockchain bloat while doing 1000TPS. I am surprised nobody mentioned this, so it is either because it is a really bad idea for some reason, or too obvious nobody bothered??

From my understanding, it will be possible to have regular snapshots of the entire state of the NXT blockchain so that you wont need to parse all the blocks from genesis.

Secondly, very little of this "entire state of NXT" data has a life beyond 1440 blocks.

So, my proposal is to generate a daily snapshot, peer reviewed by nodes, checksummed, fingerprinted, signatured, whatever we need to make sure it is a valid unmolested snapshot. We actually dont even need these snapshots, but while we are doing this, might as well avoid having to download the entire blockchain. Bandwidth savings alone makes it worthwhile.

OK, so one way or another, let us assume the node is current. Now the problem is keeping up with 1000TPS (lets make the overall network adaptive so we can handle bursts of 1000TPS, sustained 250 TPS) and that requires bandwidth, though with binary data, 250 TPS should be around what 100TPS will be now. So 100kbps would be enough to handle bursts of 1000TPS and sustained 250TPS

But where does all that data go?

Actually, I say just throw it away! Why can't we use a FIFO that stores the most recent 1441 blocks for all the blockchains (when we go parallel). Since we synced the the full blockchain with the last days checkpoint, then as long as we are properly updating the "entire state of NXT network" at any given block, we are able to forge a valid block.

Unless I totally missed some reason why we need to locally store more than the last 1441 blocks, this should work. We can then specify that any NXT VM (Turing scripts) will need to be designed to use only data from prior 1440 blocks. This I do not see as a big limitation as if it is really important the client issuing script can just get data it needs and put it into AM. So, the NXTcore would need to implement the FIFO, preferably based on a web.xml parameter. That would allow people who run NXT VM generating clients to have access to exactly the window of time they need.

I hope this puts useful forging back on the table for raspis. 100kbps to fully support 1000TPS (peak output) NXT network

James

[jl777]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

[msin]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

We need to get someone on it asap.  Maybe we should have a bounty list somewhere, we need to post link to all open bounties easily.  The mixing solution will get at least 2Mil Nxt, that should be attractive to someone.

[Fern]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-01/27/bitcloud
http://maidsafe.net/

Any new ideas here? Decentralized internet and cloud services based on the (Nxt) platform, coupled  with a currency and a Proof of Work (or Service) system, that gives the users an initiative to provide space and resources?

I live up the road from Kim Dot Com and he's very approachable. Perhaps he could play a role.

[pinarello]

we have already the marketing doc by salsacz.

then there is the fund under administration of Rickyjames and Jl777

I will try to start a thread for other projects and bountys.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453935.new#new

[salsacz]

I don't understand how people still get excited over a new alt-coin that does not offer anything new. Apparently most people think "new" means simply switching the block time and hashing algo, and all of a sudden you have "innovation". Out of hundreds of cryptocurrencies, there are only a handful that actually offer anything new, and maxcoin is not one of them.

Although, I suppose if I had a huge collection of GPUs, I'd be excited to make $k's of cash every time a new coin came out so I could mine and dump immediately... a sobering reminder that most miners don't care if they are securing the network, only that they are lining their pockets.

Which does bring me to my point - we need to market to a slightly different demographic. Marketing to those already invest in PoW coins is an inefficient use of resources, because if they can't mine it, they are not interested. Of course there are always exceptions, but if the accusations of "nxt is pre-mined!" are any indicator, most of the complaints are in-fact from miners. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to convert those invested in bitcoin and clones (we should, and we already are with LTB), but they should not be our main focus.

We need to be attracting people who are actually interested in innovation and smart investments. This means our focus is not on the majority of the cryptocurrency crowd, but on tech and business oriented people (Forbes, IEEE, universities, etc). We just have to present NXT in a manner that is easy to understand and why it completely blows all other coins out of the water. Right now is not quite the right time, but when nexern releases his client (along with the AE), we should have a very simple to install client as well as be able to show off the power of decentralized exchanges. We should not market to raise the price of NXT, but market to recruit talent and smart investors that will contribute (and not just ride the wave) to the NXT ecosystem. The price will rise as a side effect of the cumulative contribution. NXT is the only cryptocurrency platform that allows an exponentially growing ecosystem due to BCNext's decentralized vision - the rest of the coins are limited to what their developers can put out - NXT is unlimited.

Cryptocurrency crowd + tech / money people + ?

Who is / should be our target audience? Please comment and discuss.

Just want to catch on the discussion we had this afternoon about features and target audience for nxt.

1. (Possible) Features:
- TF for instant transactions
- TF + punishment against 50% attacks (correct?)
- no bloated blockchain
- energy friendly crypto
- mobile friendly crypto
- easy to add new features
- many many TPS
- parallel blockchains
- blockchain shrinking
- decentralized exchange
- colored coins
- decentralized voting/opiniongrabber
- decentralized AM (data storage, link storage (eg torrents), encrypted messaging, ...)
- dividend payouts (all fees per block) for everyone instead of mining of the few with lots of power
- Turing capability
- smart contracts
- anonymous transactions
- SMS gateway

2.Today it was clear that the nxt community isn't sure yet, which features are the most important ones, which could be ignored in favor of other features (some exclude each other), and who the target audience is. Would it be easier if we knew plan 2 and 3 from BCNext? I don't know. But regardless of BCNext's plans, we should discuss this topic in the community: which is our target audience now, next months and in one year? Does this depend on the features we implement or does the features depend on the audience we want to tackle? The answer is clear (or is nxt just fundamental research?) That's why we should discuss this.

...

Business people, developers, entrepreneurs, academics, marketers, philosophers, etc. People who can see raw potential, and do something about it. It's not a matter of IQ, but the willingness of that person to actually positively contribute. And these efforts can be profitable, they just take more effort than sitting back and pointing your computer in a certain direction. For example, I'm not particularly smart, but I do have a few ideas that I am coordinating with a friend that hopefully will be of use when AE is implemented. I also volunteer to edit papers, articles, etc.

So basically what I am saying is that, in the short-run, we need to be focusing our marketing efforts on getting doers on-board. I think we can all agree that users right now can't do much with NXT, so marketing to the Average Joe at this time will only serve to temporarily increase the market value, but not add any real substance behind NXT. Of course, for people to make services, people have to use those services, so that's why I said we should not completely ignore this segment of the market. I don't know the ideal split of our marketing focus, but something like 75% towards doers and 25% towards users. Can you imagine if all the features on the list were completed right now? The price would be through the roof in an instant. That will be us in the future, but we need a strong community to get us there first.

My viewpoint is actually quite similar to jl777's, we should do everything because we can - we're decentralized. We just have to get more people on-board that are capable of doing these things in the first place. With all the bounties he is handing out (I lost count), we simply have to spread awareness to the correct demographics, and we'll have people interested in innovating. And the best part is that all this stuff can be developed in parallel to the main core development, so that's a huge advantage as well.

I agree, we need articles/theses/dissertations first. It would be fantastic, if you wrote a letter - an invitation to Nxt for those people -  academics, philosophers, developers, entrepreneurs... Sending the letter to 1.000 universities would be easy for me, I just need a letter

[Come-from-Beyond]

James, has anyone been successful in contacting anyone from the zerocoin/cash team?

rickyjames has had no luck. I think we need to show them a working NXTcash testnet. talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words

I've reached out to several Zerocoin members; Matthew Green, Ian Miers and Christina Garman.  All of which were personally referred to me by other Professors.  I did receive a response from Matthew about our initial algo review, but nothing more.  I'm not holding high hopes for getting help with Zerocoin from any of their core group.  We need to explore other options.  

The option I chose was to push forward on our own as fast as we can!

I can't recall keywords now, but AFAIK there is a way to validate encrypted transactions. U don't see who paid whom but u r able to check that coins r not created out of thin air. Such encrypted transactions require that at some step u reveal data of a particular transaction. Also u can't use multiplication of numbers (only 1 time is possible IIRC). Maybe it could be used for anonymization too? No need to "mix" coins, the goal is just to break the links between accounts.

[Anon136]

what version are we on?

[Come-from-Beyond]

what version are we on?

0.6.1