ChuckOne
Sr. Member
 Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 07:58:17 AM |
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NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.
How do you control that process? Who's gonna decide which hallmark?
It is still not clear to me. It sounds easy but it is not in terms of implementation.
The more I think of it, the more I am certain we have the several different programs/incentives/fees etc. to support nodes. I think this variety will keep the number of nodes up.
I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them. Why not? |
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Jean-Luc
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February 25, 2014, 07:59:14 AM |
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OK, now that we can use POST instead of GET on 0.8.1e, can someone tell me whats wrong here? $ curl -sk --data "requestType=getBalance&account=6666386410" https://localhost:7876
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"/>
<title>Error 405 </title>
</head>
<body>
<h2>HTTP ERROR: 405</h2>
<p>Problem accessing /. Reason:
<pre> HTTP method POST is not supported by this URL</pre></p>
<hr /><i><small>Powered by Jetty://</small></i>
</body>
</html>
$
Should be https://localhost:7876/nxt . It is the "nxt" that maps the url to the API servlet which accepts both POST and GET, the top level url is served by the jetty default resource handler for static files which does not support POST. |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:01:13 AM |
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I think we need an incentive to forge right now. And that's gonna happen with fees. They will decline in time and eventually disappear completely for a fully functional Skynxt, I mean, Nxt network.
Now about spam prevention:
What about the idea of combining hash cash and fees?
According to Come-from-Beyond, BCNext doesn't want to use hashcash because of the environmental factors. I agree with him. |
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bitcoinpaul
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February 25, 2014, 08:03:05 AM |
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I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.
I think this discussion needs to be way more technical and detailed than just a "penalizing is bad, doesn't sound good" or something like that. |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:04:13 AM |
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NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.
How do you control that process? Who's gonna decide which hallmark?
It is still not clear to me. It sounds easy but it is not in terms of implementation.
The more I think of it, the more I am certain we have the several different programs/incentives/fees etc. to support nodes. I think this variety will keep the number of nodes up.
I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them. Why not? Every hallmarked node gets a portion of the 50% of block transaction fees. People should not be penalized from not forging because people don't forge for many reasons. A lot of the larger accounts right now are not forging to give the smaller accounts a chance to forge. Some people might want to store NXT in an inactive account for future use. If some has computer issues and can't run their computer, they should not be penalized for that. |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:06:06 AM |
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I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.
I think this discussion needs to be way more technical and detailed than just a "penalizing is bad, doesn't sound good" or something like that. The network will grow faster if you reward people instead of penalizing them. I don't see a need for penalizing people. You can reward both forgers and node operators simultaneously. |
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ChuckOne
Sr. Member
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Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 08:06:14 AM |
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NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.
Let's say 1000 hallmarked nodes are on the network. A block is found that has 10 NXT transaction fee. The forging account gets 5 NXT. The other 5 NXT gets divided up and distributed to the 1000 accounts running on hallmarked nodes. Each node's hallmarked account would get 5/1000 = 0.005 NXT. The 0.005 NXT would not be broadcast as a transaction, but simply credited to the account.
This would allow smaller accounts to provide a service for NXT, running a node, and get rewarded consistently at the same time.
I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.
Assuming the NXT network is at 10% utilization, each block will have 25.6 NXT transaction fees. ( 256 tx per block * 1 NXT tx fee * 10% = 25.6 NXT) Half of this, 12.8 NXT, gets rewarded to the hallmarked nodes' accounts supporting the network. At one block per minute, 18432 NXT will be distributed to all hallmarked node accounts per day assuming 10% network utilization. If there are 1000 hallmarked nodes on the network, each node will earn 18.432 NXT per day and 6727.68 NXT per year. As more transactions are issued on the network, more hallmarked nodes will come on-line to partake in earning the node reward. How am I supposed to hallmark my smartphones? |
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ChuckOne
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 08:08:01 AM |
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Interesting, I could see many coins being built with this model in mind, a coin that provides a service, paid for in Nxt, and mined to keep the network strong.
Please note that just "running a node" is not the same as "forging" in terms of "protecting the network". Although it can help with things like DDoS and for those that are blocked from accessing IP addresses the most important work is that done by "forging nodes" as only those nodes are "confirming transactions". I am confused again. I thought that all you had to do to forge was to have your account unlocked. Also, in order to make API calls that you have to have your account unlocked. If this is not the case, I will just make it so that forging is enabled by default when you are "mining" NXTcoins. Wouldnt that be "protecting the network"? James Nodes protect the network by: - keeping the blockchain online - answer requests from peers - distribute blocks and transaction. Accounts protect finding consensus: - the more stake, the more likely to verify transactions - new blocks |
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zorke
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February 25, 2014, 08:09:09 AM |
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My last handful of points before I get to go to bed, go to work, kids, etc....: NXT is still doing well, especially if u look at the disaster zone that is the crypto market right now. A core point of BCnexts slightly mysterious plan is that NXT needs to first succeed as a first generation crypto-currency (ie, buy stuff, trade, invest securely, transfer money) before it can then leverage that success to become a second generation currency (Asset Exchange, DACs, colored coins, games, secure blockchain storage, contract enforcement...etc). I think that NXT is running ahead of itself, and we need to step back a little bit and concentrate on the first gen stuff for a while. This doesn't mean dropping any of the work on the second generation features. The guys developing all of the second gen stuff should absolutely carry on, but the rest of us should concentrate on these areas right now: Promoting NXT as an complete alternative to Bitcoin and it's clones. Different code, none of Bitcoins current issues. Getting merchants on board. Payment solutions. Sell stuff.... More big exchanges, more trading. Cryptsy and BTC38, as priority. Network infrastructure/rewards for running nodes. Network statistics...TPS capacity? If we can boost these first gen aspects of NXT, we will end up in a much better position to launch NXTs second generation features on an unsuspecting world. Almost the last point: Buy stickers! Support NXTs merchant eco-system ! https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,4181.0.htmlReally last point: I'm now serious about being a candidate for the NXT infrastructure committee:NXT FUNDING COMMITTEE VOTE IS COMING MARCH 1Remaining eligible nominees with as-yet undeclared intentions (PM me if you want off this list): ^[GS]^, 2Kool4Skewl, Arckam_(frmelin), bitcoinpaul, buybitcoinscanada
ChuckOne, Cointropolis_JustabitTime, Come-from-Beyond
Damelon, davethetrousers, drevil, EvilDave, ferment, Fry, hughmanwho, Jean-Luc,
jl777, Klee, landomata, laowai80, msin, mww
nexern, opticalcarrier, Pandaisftw, PeercoinEnthusiast, pinarello, Pouncer, Ricot, salsacz
SecondLeo, smaragda, Uniqueorn, VanBreuk, ZeroTheGreat
Something Zahlen said: A candidate does not need to be good at writing English. Some candidates may not have English as their mother tongue. If you're voting, don't confuse lots of writing for ability to judge the worth of a project. Remember that ultimately the committee's job is to decide which projects get funded. If you are on this list and want to be on a NXT funding committee, go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=479167.msg5280476#msg5280476Background: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5280786#msg5280786Good luck to these nominees who have declared themselves candidates:
NXTmarketingfund: allwelder, Damelon, Mario123, Asian Prepper, joefox, brooklynbct, CoinTropolis_NiftyNikel
NXTtechdevfund: EmoneyRu, Anon136, l8orre, abuelau
NXTinfrastructurefund: rickyjames, chanc3r
Yeah, you may have seen this before. I'll be putting it up every ten pages or so. It's one of those "legitimate, transparent process" things. Saved u the trouble, RJ. So, yeah, put me down as a candidate for infrastructure.I'll post the reasons to vote for me (apart from my winning smile) on the committee thread after i get some sleep and go to work.....about 16 hours from now, i guess. I think NXT to be successful as a first gen crypto currency is like to go David vs Goliath. In my opinion, I think we should concentrate on 2nd gen capabilities - being the backbone of cryptocurrencies, i.e asset exchange --- facilitating coin exchanges, creating new coins on top of NXT, etc. I don't see NXT being used by the public majority --- that will be bitcoin. Rather I see NXT being used to support crypto-currencies. If we can achieve that, NXT will be successful. I agree. |
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ChuckOne
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 08:09:30 AM |
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If you have your node running, but don't have any NXT, you are not securing the blockchain.
Depends on what you define 'securing the blockchain'. Nodes (no matter if they forge or not) protect the current status of the chain. Forger protect the consensus finding mechanism, i.e. they 'protect new blocks'. |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:09:50 AM |
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NXT users should be rewarded for forging or running a node. How about after fractional amounts are implemented, we split the transaction rewards 50/50 between the account forging and the NXT nodes that are hallmarked. Every time a block is found, half of the transaction fees are credited evenly to the hallmarked nodes.
Let's say 1000 hallmarked nodes are on the network. A block is found that has 10 NXT transaction fee. The forging account gets 5 NXT. The other 5 NXT gets divided up and distributed to the 1000 accounts running on hallmarked nodes. Each node's hallmarked account would get 5/1000 = 0.005 NXT. The 0.005 NXT would not be broadcast as a transaction, but simply credited to the account.
This would allow smaller accounts to provide a service for NXT, running a node, and get rewarded consistently at the same time.
I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.
Assuming the NXT network is at 10% utilization, each block will have 25.6 NXT transaction fees. ( 256 tx per block * 1 NXT tx fee * 10% = 25.6 NXT) Half of this, 12.8 NXT, gets rewarded to the hallmarked nodes' accounts supporting the network. At one block per minute, 18432 NXT will be distributed to all hallmarked node accounts per day assuming 10% network utilization. If there are 1000 hallmarked nodes on the network, each node will earn 18.432 NXT per day and 6727.68 NXT per year. As more transactions are issued on the network, more hallmarked nodes will come on-line to partake in earning the node reward. How am I supposed to hallmark my smartphones? I'm not sure if the current android client can use a hallmark, but it should be possible for them to add it. |
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bitcoinpaul
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February 25, 2014, 08:10:17 AM |
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The network will grow faster if you reward people instead of penalizing them.
We are talking about 1440 Blocks penalizing. Is this so bad? |
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ChuckOne
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 08:10:49 AM |
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I do not think accounts should be penalized for not forging. NXT should reward people and not penalize them.
I think this discussion needs to be way more technical and detailed than just a "penalizing is bad, doesn't sound good" or something like that. Agree. |
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igmaca
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February 25, 2014, 08:11:23 AM |
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Hey guys, To those that have tried my web client http://nxtra.org/nxt-client ; A beta version is now available for download here: http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/dev.zipUnzip, move the dev folder to nxt/html/tools/dev Then go to http://localhost:7876/devThis is assuming you have 0.8.1e installed (it will not work correctly on older versions!) - do not tryI suggest you connect to TestNet first though; in the upper left corner you can switch between TestNet and localhost. Try everything out in TestNet first, when you are comfortable you can connect locally. There may still be errors in the code, it's a beta after all. Not everything is done yet, and Internet Explorer is completely untested. I suggest you use either chrome/firefox or safari for now. Also need to do some more interactive updating after submission of forms, etc. if you want, you can send me a message there via the alias wesleynxt (just open the send message dialog and type wesleynxt in the account field). Messages are not yet encrypted. Let me know what you think. I have the active 0.8.1.e client and I can not connect through the client file :/ / / C :/ nxt / html / tools / dev / dev / index.html # You should put it at tools/dev not tools/dev/dev (but it shouldn't matter). You are acessing it through http://localhost:7876/dev/ right? Do not double click on index.html as it will open via file:// which does not work. Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7876. Have you just clicked the link here: http://localhost:7876/dev/That should work, otherwise your java may not be running. Check if http://localhost:7875 works Anyway, I'm off, will answer questions later. Go! Google Chrome could not find the page localhost: 7875 java is working because nrs client 8.0.1e is working well How do you know 8.0.1e is working if you can't access http://localhost:7875 ? I access by http://127.0.0.1:7875/ |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:11:41 AM |
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The network will grow faster if you reward people instead of penalizing them.
We are talking about 1440 Blocks penalizing. Is this so bad? Do you mean they should be prevented from forging for 1440 blocks every time their node goes offline? |
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swartzfeger
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February 25, 2014, 08:12:32 AM |
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I go on a road trip for a day and looks like I missed a giveaway.  Looks like I also missed a lot of talk about PoS, penalizing accounts, proof-of-commitment... a *lot* to digest. Wesley -- it appears that the Mac client still doesn't play nice with the changes made in 0.8.x? I accidentally auto-updated to 0.8.e, and now I've got to redownload and downgrade to 0.7.5. Do you have a timeframe for 0.8.x compatibility? testNXT, please? 11369639962571180006 I've sent you 5K TestNxt  . Enjoy it Received... thank you!!! |
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ChuckOne
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
☕ NXT-4BTE-8Y4K-CDS2-6TB82
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February 25, 2014, 08:12:43 AM |
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Do you mean they should be prevented from forging for 1440 blocks every time their node goes offline?
I think you still confuse nodes and accounts. |
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longzai1988
Member
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Activity: 77
Merit: 10
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February 25, 2014, 08:12:55 AM |
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I guess i am missing something, trying to start 0.8.1e on windows, creating a bat file with the following line :
java -jar nxt.jar
the cmd just open and disappear and i can't find any log, anyone has workaround for this ?
Thanks.
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sweet & happy cryptocurrency , cheers NXT : NXT-HSBE-8PWL-CUCD-BHUD6 BTCD : RTaMoRXsA7uCv869dX1TfCZmHw4ExbMVmQ |
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2Kool4Skewl (OP)
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February 25, 2014, 08:13:41 AM |
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Do you mean they should be prevented from forging for 1440 blocks every time their node goes offline?
I think you still confuse nodes and accounts. I should have said "account" not "node". |
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bitcoinpaul
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February 25, 2014, 08:14:13 AM |
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If it is the accounts turn to forge and it isn't forging, then yes, something like that?
I'm no dev. I just want this discussion to be more than just a gut feeling thing.
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