rpietila Wall Observer - the Quality TA Thread ;)

[Wekkel]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

[kwest]

BitChick - I would love it if you could blog about your trip to India. Not only would it be very interesting to read about, it would also help the image of our community and perhaps get more people interested in donating if they can see the work being done (including me).

I used to work at an e-zine about women's rights, and India was a main topic with all the rapes going on. The women there do hold a special place in my heart because of that.

That's a good idea.  I have never had a blog but have thought about it.  I guess it would be an effective tool for showing the good that could come from Bitcoin, and as a woman I am not the "typical" user.

I guess the only downside I see is that BitChicksHusband is pretty serious about anonymity.  He expects Bitcoin to rise in value, and although we are not huge holders compared to many people, he is aware that we are still early adopters and could perhaps become targets at some point so I would have to consider that.  Many of you seem to have no concerns about that?  I tend to not worry about security but that has gotten me in trouble too, especially in the case I have had a few computer viruses, which annoys him like crazy!  I guess I can't blame him for that. I will talk with him though for sure.  

Yes, discuss it with your husband. But you could still be anonymous and write about / take some pictures from India. No need to to disclose names or be in the pictures.

On the other hand... rpietila is probably the wealthiest of all of us in this thread, and he's anything but anonymous. I don't hold enough to be worried about anonymity at this stage.. but if bitcoin truly blows up... nah, I still won't care about anonymity. I would care more about security though. Everyone knows Bill Gates is insanely rich.. but he's also a very public person and does a lot of charity work. So having wealth and being open about it doesn't mean you become a target.. unless you also tell everyone that you have the money in your mattress, in which case you should expect to have visitors.

The Winklevoss twins also hold a lot of bitcoin and are definitely not anonymous.

[BitChick]

BitChick - I would love it if you could blog about your trip to India. Not only would it be very interesting to read about, it would also help the image of our community and perhaps get more people interested in donating if they can see the work being done (including me).

I used to work at an e-zine about women's rights, and India was a main topic with all the rapes going on. The women there do hold a special place in my heart because of that.

That's a good idea.  I have never had a blog but have thought about it.  I guess it would be an effective tool for showing the good that could come from Bitcoin, and as a woman I am not the "typical" user.

I guess the only downside I see is that BitChicksHusband is pretty serious about anonymity.  He expects Bitcoin to rise in value, and although we are not huge holders compared to many people, he is aware that we are still early adopters and could perhaps become targets at some point so I would have to consider that.  Many of you seem to have no concerns about that?  I tend to not worry about security but that has gotten me in trouble too, especially in the case I have had a few computer viruses, which annoys him like crazy!  I guess I can't blame him for that. I will talk with him though for sure.  

Yes, discuss it with your husband. But you could still be anonymous and write about / take some pictures from India. No need to to disclose names or be in the pictures.

On the other hand... rpietila is probably the wealthiest of all of us in this thread, and he's anything but anonymous. I don't hold enough to be worried about anonymity at this stage.. but if bitcoin truly blows up... nah, I still won't care about anonymity. I would care more about security though. Everyone knows Bill Gates is insanely rich.. but he's also a very public person and does a lot of charity work. So having wealth and being open about it doesn't mean you become a target.. unless you also tell everyone that you have the money in your mattress, in which case you should expect to have visitors.

The Winklevoss twins also hold a lot of bitcoin and are definitely not anonymous.

Fame is not necessarily desirable either though!  But it can be useful to have a public presence.  I used to perform quite a bit and was in the public eye a little.  I sang the National Anthem at a Kings game once.  It was completely stressful!  I told BitChicksHusband after the game that there was WAY better ways to get free tickets to a hockey game!  I do OK in public, but I don't love it!  But for the sake of doing some good in this world I should get beyond that.

[billyjoeallen]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class is liable to do more harm than good. Poor people use the medicine, food, shelter you give them and have lots of babies, more than they can support. in the end you have another, larger generation with the same needs as their parents.  Subsidizing need creates more need. it's why welfare in the U.S. created a huge and growing underclass with no prospects and almost complete dependence on the Gov't and charity. If you want to help the unfortunate, don't give them stuff or money. Give them freedom. Most will not know what to do with freedom. They were lost anyway. The few that survive and thrive will give the others hope and roll models to follow.

this may not feeeeel good, but if you're only doing it to feel good, then it's not really charity, IMHO.

[BitChick]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class is liable to do more harm than good. Poor people use the medicine, food, shelter you give them and have lots of babies, more than they can support. in the end you have another, larger generation with the same needs as their parents.  Subsidizing need creates more need. it's why welfare in the U.S. created a huge and growing underclass with no prospects and almost complete dependence on the Gov't and charity. If you want to help the unfortunate, don't give them stuff or money. Give them freedom. Most will not know what to do with freedom. They were lost anyway. The few that survive and thrive will give the others hope and roll models to follow.

this may not feeeeel good, but if you're only doing it to feel good, then it's not really charity, IMHO.

Sure, welfare in the US is totally debatable as to whether or not it helps, but there are people in some places in this world where helping the poor with medicine, food and shelter will not only save their lives it gives them a chance to get on their feet again.  Many of these organizations will train them and provide an education and opportunities for employment as well.  Not all charities enable dependance on the handouts.

[kwest]

Fame is not necessarily desirable either though!  But it can be useful to have a public presence.  I used to perform quite a bit and was in the public eye a little.  I sang the National Anthem at a Kings game once.  It was completely stressful!  I told BitChicksHusband after the game that there was WAY better ways to get free tickets to a hockey game!  I do OK in public, but I don't love it!  But for the sake of doing some good in this world I should get beyond that.

No, I don't desire fame either. But I see a difference between being a singer or Hollywood star, and being a Bill Gates or Winklevoss. The former are in the tabloids all the time, have to deal with paparazzi, and the stress of being on stage. The later do their thing behind the scenes, and when they do appear in the media; it's not "popular" media. I prefer to be a "behind the scenes" guy. But I don't need to be anonymous.

... helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class is liable to do more harm than good.

Depends on how you help them. Give them the infrastructure and knowledge needed to run a business for example, and they become self sufficient. Combating diseases is also important, but while you're at it: teach them how to stay healthy when you leave too.

[DieJohnny]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class

I am here in India right now. The western world point of view is far too simplistic to solve the problems of India or similar cultures. Yes, people that are dying need charity and assistance. However, People that exist in decrepit circumstances do not necessarily need charity.

The class system in India will take a century of opportunity to unravel, not charity.

I can give every person collecting garbage on the street a home, a car, a thousand dollars a month and India will still not employ him, give him respect, or even allow him in their house. You cannot undo a millennium of indentured servants and class discrimination with good intentions.

Also, I think we need to be careful what we wish for, the most precious and rare of human traits is found in abundance in India, and that trait is more scarce in the USA than a benevolent capitalist, HUMILITY.

[granathus]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class

I am here in India right now. The western world point of view is far too simplistic to solve the problems of India or similar cultures. Yes, people that are dying need charity and assistance. However, People that exist in decrepit circumstances do not necessarily need charity.

The class system in India will take a century of opportunity to unravel, not charity.

I can give every person collecting garbage on the street a home, a car, a thousand dollars a month and India will still not employ him, give him respect, or even allow him in their house. You cannot undo a millennium of indentured servants and class discrimination with good intentions.

Also, I think we need to be careful what we wish for, the most precious and rare of human traits is found in abundance in India, and that trait is more scarce in the USA than a benevolent capitalist, HUMILITY.

Well spoken.

[BitChick]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class

I am here in India right now. The western world point of view is far too simplistic to solve the problems of India or similar cultures. Yes, people that are dying need charity and assistance. However, People that exist in decrepit circumstances do not necessarily need charity.

The class system in India will take a century of opportunity to unravel, not charity.

I can give every person collecting garbage on the street a home, a car, a thousand dollars a month and India will still not employ him, give him respect, or even allow him in their house. You cannot undo a millennium of indentured servants and class discrimination with good intentions.

Also, I think we need to be careful what we wish for, the most precious and rare of human traits is found in abundance in India, and that trait is more scarce in the USA than a benevolent capitalist, HUMILITY.

True.  Part of the goal of the India trip I am taking is help facilitate a 3 day conference that we will fund in hosting 1200 women from Delit villages and basically giving them hope that they can rise above what their culture says their value is.  Then these woman can go back to their small villages where they are already seen as leaders and carry on the message that they have worth and we can begin to slowly chip away at the millennium of class discrimination that you are talking about.  Just being provided with transportation, food and lodging for this conference will send a huge message to these woman that they have value.  

There is much to be done, but sitting back and saying that charity won't do anything is not true either.  We can make small changes that will grow into bigger changes.

I won't argue that "humility" is a lacking trait in the USA though!    Part of the reason I want to go to India is to get a little more of that necessary trait while I am there.  It is easy to live in one of the richest nations in the world and get complacent and lose a sense of what is really going on outside of our mansions and strip malls.

[Loozik]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

The movie Matrix rather properly (although parabolically) described the state of our non-freedoms.

There were some predictions in the Matrix as well; if they were correct, not before the fith or seventh incarnation / layer of the cryptosystem (Neo) will you be able to get the empowering tools you need.

Do not put too much faith in Bitcoin as it may fail / as there will be more incarantions of the cryptosystem to come.

[billyjoeallen]

It's an old saying: charity begins at home. I don't want to help someone who might later become an enemy of mine. It's harder to monitor and manage what your contributions are used for on the other side of the world. There's far too many opportunities to teach people independence right across the street from me. There maybe less class structure in America, but we don't exactly have an enlightened society either. Lots of work to be done right here, and it's easier to do it when you don't have to travel so far. Traveling is expensive and that's money you could be spending on charity.  I think you're in it for the good feelings. well, that's fine, but you get no credit from me. You want to travel and rationalize the expense. Don't bother. It's your money so use it how you want.

Goat's Lamborghini purchase is a better act of charity, IMHO. It helps employ Italian craftsmen, shippers, auto parts makers and their families. It helps support the families of the men who work in the oil fields. It incentivises education in cryptocurrencies, economics, finance, automotive engineering, etc. It promotes peaceful free trade, software and infrastructure development, and the discipline of delayed gratification.

[DieJohnny]

It's an old saying: charity begins at home. I don't want to help someone who might later become an enemy of mine. It's harder to monitor and manage what your contributions are used for on the other side of the world. There's far too many opportunities to teach people independence right across the street from me. There maybe less class structure in America, but we don't exactly have an enlightened society either. Lots of work to be done right here, and it's easier to do it when you don't have to travel so far. Traveling is expensive and that's money you could be spending on charity.  I think you're in it for the good feelings. well, that's fine, but you get no credit from me. You want to travel and rationalize the expense. Don't bother. It's your money so use it how you want.

Goat's Lamborghini purchase is a better act of charity, IMHO. It helps employ Italian craftsmen, shippers, auto parts makers and their families. It helps support the families of the men who work in the oil fields. It incentivises education in cryptocurrencies, economics, finance, automotive engineering, etc. It promotes peaceful free trade, software and infrastructure development, and the discipline of delayed gratification.

I thought I was somewhat on your page, but equating buying a lambo to charity is a despicable analogy.

True charity has nothing to do with money, it is about sacrifice and giving some of your joy to others, most likely in service. To suggest that purchasing a luxury that serves no purpose other than to prove status or decorate your garage is on par with the sacrifice of those that truly provide charity is the most embarrassing thing i have ever heard.

If I could wave a magic wand I would have your comments shamed into the trash bin of human stupidity.

[billyjoeallen]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class

I am here in India right now. The western world point of view is far too simplistic to solve the problems of India or similar cultures. Yes, people that are dying need charity and assistance. However, People that exist in decrepit circumstances do not necessarily need charity.

The class system in India will take a century of opportunity to unravel, not charity.

I can give every person collecting garbage on the street a home, a car, a thousand dollars a month and India will still not employ him, give him respect, or even allow him in their house. You cannot undo a millennium of indentured servants and class discrimination with good intentions.

Also, I think we need to be careful what we wish for, the most precious and rare of human traits is found in abundance in India, and that trait is more scarce in the USA than a benevolent capitalist, HUMILITY.

I gotta agree that humility is more scarce than benevolent capitalists, because all true capitalists are benevolent. Every trade freely made makes both parties better off. If it didn't, there would be no trade. You ARE evidently severely lacking in humility if you think you can go to the third world, armed mostly with good intentions, and think you can do more harm than good. Economics is largely the study of unintended consequences.

[BitChick]

It's an old saying: charity begins at home. I don't want to help someone who might later become an enemy of mine. It's harder to monitor and manage what your contributions are used for on the other side of the world. There's far too many opportunities to teach people independence right across the street from me. There maybe less class structure in America, but we don't exactly have an enlightened society either. Lots of work to be done right here, and it's easier to do it when you don't have to travel so far. Traveling is expensive and that's money you could be spending on charity.  I think you're in it for the good feelings. well, that's fine, but you get no credit from me. You want to travel and rationalize the expense. Don't bother. It's your money so use it how you want.

Goat's Lamborghini purchase is a better act of charity, IMHO. It helps employ Italian craftsmen, shippers, auto parts makers and their families. It helps support the families of the men who work in the oil fields. It incentivises education in cryptocurrencies, economics, finance, automotive engineering, etc. It promotes peaceful free trade, software and infrastructure development, and the discipline of delayed gratification.

We should all purchase Lamborghinis for the needy in India!  

[billyjoeallen]

I thought I was somewhat on your page, but equating buying a lambo to charity is a despicable analogy.

True charity has nothing to do with money, it is about sacrifice and giving some of your joy to others, most likely in service. To suggest that purchasing a luxury that serves no purpose other than to prove status or decorate your garage is on par with the sacrifice of those that truly provide charity is the most embarrassing thing i have ever heard.

If I could wave a magic wand I would have your comments shamed into the trash bin of human stupidity.

You don't think people provide charity for as a way of getting status? That strikes me as naive.

[DieJohnny]

There is so much to be done, and the rise of bitcoin gives us unprecedented means for doing it. Perhaps never before have freedom-loving people had so much power in their hands.

This feels very good. Very good indeed 

Hate to pee in your pool, but helping poor people when they are effectively slaves of a ruling class

I am here in India right now. The western world point of view is far too simplistic to solve the problems of India or similar cultures. Yes, people that are dying need charity and assistance. However, People that exist in decrepit circumstances do not necessarily need charity.

The class system in India will take a century of opportunity to unravel, not charity.

I can give every person collecting garbage on the street a home, a car, a thousand dollars a month and India will still not employ him, give him respect, or even allow him in their house. You cannot undo a millennium of indentured servants and class discrimination with good intentions.

Also, I think we need to be careful what we wish for, the most precious and rare of human traits is found in abundance in India, and that trait is more scarce in the USA than a benevolent capitalist, HUMILITY.

I gotta agree that humility is more scarce than benevolent capitalists, because all true capitalists are benevolent. Every trade freely made makes both parties better off. If it didn't, there would be no trade. You ARE evidently severely lacking in humility if you think you can go to the third world, armed mostly with good intentions, and think you can do more harm than good. Economics is largely the study of unintended consequences.

I am here interviewing people that need a job, for my employer. If you think that every true capitalist is benevolent, then I have a religious cult I want to introduce you to, if I can get you out of the cult that has you so deeply entwined.

A true capitalist exists in fantasy novels along with benevolent dictators and community organizers.

[DieJohnny]

I thought I was somewhat on your page, but equating buying a lambo to charity is a despicable analogy.

True charity has nothing to do with money, it is about sacrifice and giving some of your joy to others, most likely in service. To suggest that purchasing a luxury that serves no purpose other than to prove status or decorate your garage is on par with the sacrifice of those that truly provide charity is the most embarrassing thing i have ever heard.

If I could wave a magic wand I would have your comments shamed into the trash bin of human stupidity.

You don't think people provide charity for as a way of getting status? That strikes me as naive.

Your world view is frightening

[kwest]

...

I just wanted to say that I agree there is a lot to do on the home front as well. Education is incredibly important.
But I also feel that the less educated someone is, the more prone they are to become an enemy. Educating people abroad, as well as sharing your culture, and showing appreciation for theirs, makes them less likely to ever become your enemy IMO.

And because we in the west are already pretty well educated, well fed, well clothed, healthy... as a citizen of the world my attention naturally falls on the third world countries, where they need help a lot more than in my own country. And as a "rich westerner", I can do a lot of good.

I have a friend from Cameroon.. in the village where he comes from they don't have roads.. they don't have addresses.. nor do they have postal service. He has learned a lot about these sorts of things now.. infrastructure, recycling (he now runs his own recycling business), system development.. and that knowledge will benefit his part of the world.. and, I believe, all of us in the long run.

And while there are definitely people that do charity work for status, and organizations that use people's empathy to gather funds but never intend to solve any problems... saying that this is true for everyone is simply false.

[billyjoeallen]

Your world view is frightening

Perhaps I should adjust my world view so you should be less frightened? The price system is the most efficient, effective way for allocating scarce resources in existence. I don't buy a Lambo (yet) because they are too expensive for effectively doing anything BUT conveying status, but make no mistake. The difference between that and diamond stud ear rings is only one of degree.   

The free market has brought more wealth, education and happiness to the poor of the world than every do-gooder bleeding heart that ever existed. The market gives people choices and I'm not conceited enough to tell others what they should be buying, when, and at what price.  The governments of the world limit our choices ostensibly for our own good. It is incredibly harmful. India has capital controls. Bitcoin evades them. You wanna help Indians? Sell them bitcoin.

[billyjoeallen]

I am here interviewing people that need a job, for my employer. If you think that every true capitalist is benevolent, then I have a religious cult I want to introduce you to, if I can get you out of the cult that has you so deeply entwined.

A true capitalist exists in fantasy novels along with benevolent dictators and community organizers.

Capitalists usually start out well, but get tempted to use the political system to tilt the playing field in their favor. The State is basically an engine for concentrating wealth and capitalists who use it for that purpose are no longer true capitalists.

Your employer is not forcing you to work for him, so he's giving you an option you wouldn't otherwise have and for this he's bad? He's exploiting you? Would you be better off without your job? So quit.