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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722290 times)
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July 23, 2020, 11:00:58 AM
Last edit: July 23, 2020, 11:56:08 AM by qwizzie

Psychology of a Market Cycle



I think a few people in this Dash sub forum are still in the 'Depression' / 'Disbelief' state right now (thereby thinking of all kinds of doomsday scenario's),
while the rest has moved on and are in the 'Hope' state.


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July 23, 2020, 12:07:43 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2020, 01:58:29 PM by toknormal


I have been commenting for years that it is not worth having a good payment platform if nobody uses it.

It is used - just as a store of value rather than a means of exchange.

Even Dash's most ardent supporters in this thread did not buy Dash to spend it, they bought it to hoard it. Yet the features we promote to others are not the "store of value" features but the utility.

Just reflect on that for a moment.
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July 23, 2020, 12:14:02 PM

What I cannot understand is why they are posting as though they are waiting or hoping for Dash to fail? They do not seem to show any positivity towards Dash or acknowledge any of the good work the Dash Core group has put in and contributed so much towards.

Psychology of a Market Cycle

----------------------

I think a few people in this Dash sub forum are still in the 'Depression' / 'Disbelief' state right now (thereby thinking of all kinds of doomsday scenario's),
while the rest has moved on and are in the 'Hope' state.

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July 23, 2020, 12:47:55 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2020, 01:05:13 PM by qwizzie

I have difficulty understanding that too. I guess it is both a lack of faith in Dash development team and an inability to cope with a severe bear market.
Bear markets do require patience and a determination to see things through, as does project development.

Talking about project development : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q2-2020-summary-call-thursday-23-july-2020.50444/#post-222715

ETA : 5 hours

What I cannot understand is why they are posting as though they are waiting or hoping for Dash to fail? They do not seem to show any positivity towards Dash or acknowledge any of the good work the Dash Core group has put in and contributed so much towards.

Psychology of a Market Cycle

----------------------

I think a few people in this Dash sub forum are still in the 'Depression' / 'Disbelief' state right now (thereby thinking of all kinds of doomsday scenario's),
while the rest has moved on and are in the 'Hope' state.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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July 23, 2020, 04:58:34 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2020, 08:52:09 PM by toknormal


They do not seem to show any positivity..

...lack of faith...

Ah, "Faith backed coin".

Now there's an idea. Reduce flow of mining coin to markets by holding "faith-backed-coin" instead :-) Our competitors would never have thought of that.

I think I'm starting to understand why the portion of the coin supply that isn't competitively mined has value...it has faith. I hadn't considered this in my monetary theory deliberations. Might have to re-appraise some key concepts.

Now lets just hope the monkey-bridge holds up Wink


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July 23, 2020, 05:29:11 PM
Last edit: July 23, 2020, 05:56:10 PM by qwizzie

The Dash Network Now Owns a Dash Trademark
https://blog.dash.org/the-dash-network-now-owns-the-dash-trademark-34cda78e656e

Quote
The Foundation has been inactive for years. Now that this process has finished, the Dash Foundation plans to formally dissolve.

Enjoy those Dash Foundation badges while they last, guys & girls  Wink

Just be aware there could be a Second Dash Foundation operating somewhere in secrecy, i am hearing whispers about 'Star's End'  Huh
If people feel a sudden change in their brain waves, please contact me. Thank you.  Roll Eyes

Talking about Foundation, it is finally happening  Shocked  Shocked  --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gdm40MPYnw

Edit : New personal ATH with regards to number of emoji in one post  Grin


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July 23, 2020, 09:20:49 PM

To those interested in obtaining information on how Dash as a crypto project has been doing these last three months and what Dash Core Group will focus on in Q3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIuU9MstRWE

https://i.imgur.com/vQ0tdYq.jpg
Cheat !!! 66 likes on 346 views and 2 comments) That's all you can do

If people have questions for the Q & A part of the Summary Call, please post them here : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q2-2020-summary-call-thursday-23-july-2020.50444/
I am always looking forward to these summary calls, as they provide great status updates on our Dash crypto project.


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July 23, 2020, 09:24:14 PM

To those interested in obtaining information on how Dash as a crypto project has been doing these last three months and what Dash Core Group will focus on in Q3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIuU9MstRWE

https://i.imgur.com/vQ0tdYq.jpg
Cheat !!! 66 likes on 346 views and 2 comments) That's all you can do

If people have questions for the Q & A part of the Summary Call, please post them here : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q2-2020-summary-call-thursday-23-july-2020.50444/
I am always looking forward to these summary calls, as they provide great status updates on our Dash crypto project.


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July 23, 2020, 10:43:50 PM

Lack of faith in the Dash Core team or in the project itself might not be the central reason, could there be ulterior motives too? Some of the negativity within the posts would not be out of place for paid competitors or even disgruntled investors (I am not saying that is what is going on here) but why so much anti-Dash sentiment in this tread?

I have difficulty understanding that too. I guess it is both a lack of faith in Dash development team and an inability to cope with a severe bear market.
Bear markets do require patience and a determination to see things through, as does project development.

Talking about project development : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q2-2020-summary-call-thursday-23-july-2020.50444/#post-222715

ETA : 5 hours

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July 23, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Last edit: July 24, 2020, 04:47:44 PM by toknormal


Lack of faith in the Dash Core team or in the project itself might not be the central reason, could there be ulterior motives too? Some of the negativity within the posts would not be out of place for paid competitors or even disgruntled investors

@JollyGood There is no "negativity".

There is a challenge to the idea that for a mined coin, inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis rather than subjecting it to competitive mining, is healthy and may in fact cause capital to migrate to other assets if it's looking for a store of value. This theory seems to have been endorsed by observations.

Speaking for myself, I've promoted Dash for many years on the basis that it can do what bitcoin cannot. i.e. support the archetype of a highly valued, scarce digital commodity while making it super-useable.

However what gave Dash a competitive edge was inheriting bitcoin's monetary properties while decoupling a logical aspect of the protocol to provide services. Doing that effectively turned Dash from a gold "nugget" to a gold "coin". (But note that even in the archetype, the gold coin is still solid, not hollow).

The beauty of Dash in this respect is that it's capable of conserving the mining protocol, not at the expense of service provision. It solves many problems at once - for example payment confirmation can be delivered instantly while allowing the mining protocol as much time as it needs to create multiple confirmations. Other "coins" had to speed up the blocktime to to do this and ended up with orphaned blocks all over the place. Dash could also turn the masternode network into a coherent backend for client applications that require realtime consensus. The LLMQ aspect of the network is superbly thought through and orchestrates the service and mining protocols harmoniously to deliver realtime services instantaneously while, again allowing the mining protocol to operate on its own terms.

These are all great innovations. But they're all lost if the primary supply is no longer subjected to competitive mining in the first place. That's where the capital value lies with bitcoin, therefore that's where it lies with Dash. (Why else would you inherit the bitcoin mining protocol). We are not a service. We are a capital asset that's more versatile than bitcoin. It's the archetype.

A service is not unique, you can pick up "fast payments" anywhere, you can pick up "privacy" anywhere, you can pick up "ROI" anywhere, you can pick up "hope" anywhere, you can pick up "decentralisation" anywhere, you can pick up "limited supply" anywhere.

What you cannot pick up anywhere is these three things in combination:

 • a highly mined coin consistent with bitcoin's scarcity in terms of effort needed to access the supply
 • a highly versatile service-oriented network
 • a first mover born in the altcoin boom of 2014

Throw any one of those 3 away and you've got nothing. Reduce the mining element and you just dilute the value of the chain. The services are easily reproducible without the mining and at very low cost. It isn't a question of reward ratio, it's more importantly a question of what proportion of our supply is inflated through competitive effort and what proportion is inflated on a purely nominal basis (like the FED does). We have moved far too far towards the latter IMO.

If competitive mining is considered dispensable, then EVERYTHING is thrown into reverse. We no longer deliver scarcity to the market, we deliver utility. We are a technology (software) product who's utility will be considered as dispensible as we considered our own mining protocol dispensible. We're no longer even competing in the same market sector as our previous contemporaries but rather alongside the newer proof of stake networks who can simply blow us away when it comes to technical versatility since they don't inherit the bitcoin protocol but rather a pure utility oriented protocol designed from the ground up for service delivery.
 
In summary, the opinions I'm posting here are no different than those that I've expressed for the last 5 years. I don't need any lessons in how to be "positive about Dash". I still see Dash as having (potentially) a very optimistic future if people screw their heads back on the right way and don't lose sight of what made this project rare and investible in the first place. The only thing that's changed is background narrative.
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July 24, 2020, 12:34:01 AM

The Dash Core Group Q2 2020 Summary Call recording is now available on :
https://youtu.be/rIuU9MstRWE

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July 24, 2020, 02:17:40 AM
Last edit: July 24, 2020, 08:03:04 AM by qwizzie

I think once there are strong emotions and big ego's involved, we do end up with posts that come across to the occasional viewer as having anti-Dash sentiment. Emotions that make them post things like wanting to sell all their Dash at first opportunity, wanting to hard fork Dash and split this Dash community, making all kind of doomsday predictions and having a strong desire to convince as many people as possible that their view on things is the only correct view on things. It does not necessarily mean they actually want to do everything they state in their posts, or necessarily mean they view themselves as having anti-Dash sentiment.

I think people still view this forum as nothing more then a public shoutbox, where people can easily express their frustration into as it is unmoderated, has a history of anti-Dash sentiment posts and as forum can be easily abused to present unproven speculation / claims as fact. Other Dash forums like Dash Reddit, Dash Nation Discord, Dash.org/forum have specific forum rules and active moderation, where presenting unproven speculation / claims as fact is not allowed. So they either come here or they stay in their own Discord channel, where certain forum rules are more relaxed or do not exist.

Lack of faith in the Dash Core team or in the project itself might not be the central reason, could there be ulterior motives too? Some of the negativity within the posts would not be out of place for paid competitors or even disgruntled investors (I am not saying that is what is going on here) but why so much anti-Dash sentiment in this tread?

I have difficulty understanding that too. I guess it is both a lack of faith in Dash development team and an inability to cope with a severe bear market.
Bear markets do require patience and a determination to see things through, as does project development.

Talking about project development : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-q2-2020-summary-call-thursday-23-july-2020.50444/#post-222715

ETA : 5 hours

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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July 24, 2020, 02:03:17 PM

The Dash Network Now Owns a Dash Trademark!

It took quite a long time and a seemingly endless series of deliberations, negotiations, and hoop-jumping, but the Dash Core Group can finally make the announcement. They have a Dash trademark. Meaning the decentralized Dash network has a Dash trademark. On this episode of CATV, Tao goes through this exciting news and offers his insights. This is groundbreaking stuff!



Thanks for watching!

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July 24, 2020, 03:04:14 PM

Many thanks for the clearly articulated post you made. I never alluded to do anything (lessons, lectures or anything else) to educate people about what I perceive to be positive about Dash but even so I would like to apologise if you incorrectly felt I said something I clearly did not.

Maybe with time the masternode operators will come to a conclusion that change is not only needed but is overwhelmingly preferred or even essential, maybe if things ever get to that point then the direction of Dash will not be changing. You might be right from your perspective about the benefits of Dash going down a particular route but the consensus is what will carry the project forward and until (or unless) you have lots of people advocating a different stance and making noises in the right places where the echoes can be heard in the direction of the Core team - I think no matter how good or positive those changes might be they will have zero chance of being implemented as they will not even be known to the right people.

What is stopping you from compiling a whitepaper, putting forward your clear and concise plan stating your case for change. If your project is gathering momentum and has support of many investors or masternode operators then you can at least approach the Core team with a view to changing direction of the project. Posting here will not really do much in respect of the project changing direction.



@JollyGood There is no "negativity".

There is a challenge to the idea that for a mined coin, inflating the supply on a purely numerical basis rather than subjecting it to competitive mining, is healthy and may in fact cause capital to migrate to other assets if it's looking for a store of value. This theory seems to have been endorsed by observations.

Speaking for myself, I've promoted Dash for many years on the basis that it can do what bitcoin cannot. i.e. support the archetype of a highly valued, scarce digital commodity while making it super-useable.

However what gave Dash a competitive edge was inheriting bitcoin's monetary properties while decoupling a logical aspect of the protocol to provide services. Doing that effectively turned Dash from a gold "nugget" to a gold "coin". (But note that even in the archetype, the gold coin is still solid, not hollow).

The beauty of Dash in this respect is that it's capable of conserving the mining protocol, not at the expense of service provision. It solves many problems at once - for example payment confirmation can be delivered instantly while allowing the mining protocol as much time as it needs to create multiple confirmations. Other "coins" had to speed up the blocktime to to do this and ended up with orphaned blocks all over the place. Dash could also turn the masternode network into a coherent backend for client applications that require realtime consensus. The LLMQ aspect of the network is superbly thought through and orchestrates the service and mining protocols harmoniously to deliver realtime services instantaneously while, again allowing the mining protocol to operate on its own terms.

These are all great innovations. But they're all lost if the primary supply is no longer subjected to competitive mining in the first place. That's where the capital value lies with bitcoin, therefore that's where it lies with Dash. (Why else would you inherit the bitcoin mining protocol). We are not a service. We are a capital asset that's more versatile than bitcoin. It's the archetype.

A service is not unique, you can pick up "fast payments" anywhere, you can pick up "privacy" anywhere, you can pick up "ROI" anywhere, you can pick up "hope" anywhere, you can pick up "decentralisation" anywhere, you can pick up "limited supply" anywhere.

What you cannot pick up anywhere is these three things in combination:

 • a highly mined coin consistent with bitcoin's scarcity in terms of effort needed to access the supply
 • a highly versatile service-oriented network
 • a first mover born in the altcoin boom of 2014

Throw any one of those 3 away and you've got nothing. Reduce the mining element and you just dilute the value of the chain. The services are easily reproducible without the mining and at very low cost. It isn't a question of reward ratio, it's more importantly a question of what proportion of our supply is inflated through competitive effort and what proportion is inflated on a purely nominal basis (like the FED does). We have moved far too far towards the latter.

If competitive mining is considered dispensable, then EVERYTHING is thrown into reverse. We no longer deliver scarcity to the market, we deliver utility. We are a technology (software) product who's utility will be considered as dispensible as we considered our own mining protocol dispensible. We're no longer even competing in the same market sector as our previous contemporaries but rather alongside the newer proof of stake networks who can simply blow us away when it comes to technical versatility since they don't inherit the bitcoin protocol but rather a pure utility oriented protocol designed from the ground up for service delivery.
 
In summary, the opinions I'm posting here are no different than those that I've expressed for the last 5 years. I don't need any lessons in how to be "positive about Dash". I still see Dash as having (potentially) a very optimistic future if people screw their heads back on the right way and don't lose sight of what made this project rare and investible in the first place. The only thing that's changed is background narrative.

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toknormal
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July 24, 2020, 03:31:44 PM
Last edit: July 24, 2020, 03:55:11 PM by toknormal


I never alluded to do anything (lessons, lectures or anything else) to educate people about what I perceive to be positive about Dash but even so I would like to apologise if you incorrectly felt I said something I clearly did not.

No problem, no apology required.

What is stopping you from compiling a whitepaper, putting forward your clear and concise plan stating your case for change.

It's an idea, though I think it would probably see about as much support as the technical arguments I've advanced on here have.

The fact is that most people are happier to let Dash slip continuously down the rankings than to challenge long held assumptions which incur an element of discomfort & risk. Those that are not just sell out and move on. We'll see what happens over the coming period as it looks like we're heading into a growth phase for crypto in general. If Dash does'nt perform as anticipated (or pumps & then stalls & burns at the next MN-high count like the last time), than at least the community will have an alternative explanation to consider which has had a decent airing.
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July 24, 2020, 05:18:49 PM

You make a valid point, when things are not going well such as price wise then it is probably wise to be active and pro-active with bright ideas, solutions and options rather than sit idle and allow a decline to continue but right now I think Dash is far away from that stage. I cannot concur when you say most people are happier to let Dash slip down the rakings but I do agree with you about challenging the status quo if and when necessary.

As you said, it looks like Dash and other crypto might be heading in to a growing phase but if things do not go according to plan then those propagating others options just might get more attention. Let us see how things develop nit he coming days.

It's an idea, though I think it would probably see about as much support as the technical arguments I've advanced on here have.

The fact is that most people are happier to let Dash slip continuously down the rankings than to challenge long held assumptions which incur an element of discomfort & risk. Those that are not just sell out and move on. We'll see what happens over the coming period as it looks like we're heading into a growth phase for crypto in general. If Dash does'nt perform as anticipated (or pumps & then stalls & burns at the next MN-high count like the last time), than at least the community will have an alternative explanation to consider which has had a decent airing.

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July 24, 2020, 05:41:45 PM


Zaigar Saves Over $2,000 In Fees In June Using Dash Instead of Ethereum ERC-20 Token


On today’s Dash Talk episode Amanda b. Johnson speaks with Rodrigo Ambrissi from Dash Brasil about why the task rewards platform Zaigar.com decided to switch from using it’s own native ERC-20 Token ZAI to using Dash as a payment method due to high transaction fees on the Ethereum network.

Zaigar.com is a marketing task and reward platform around blockchain technology, digital currencies, and tokens.

In May, Zaigar issued 5,000+ Dash transactions saving the company over $1,100 USD in network fees.

In June, Zaigar issued 10,000+ Dash transactions saving the company over $2,000 USD in network fees.


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July 24, 2020, 10:32:32 PM
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Lack of faith in the Dash Core team or in the project itself might not be the central reason, could there be ulterior motives too? Some of the negativity within the posts would not be out of place for paid competitors or even disgruntled investors (I am not saying that is what is going on here) but why so much anti-Dash sentiment in this tread?

I have difficulty understanding that too. I guess it is both a lack of faith in Dash development team and an inability to cope with a severe bear market.
Bear markets do require patience and a determination to see things through, as does project development.


I assume you mean people who voice displeasure at Ryan's proposal to reallocate more of the block rewards away from miners? So far I never had a lack of faith in the dev team, they have been doing great work. But I do have a lack of faith in Ryan's direction.  

I can only speak for myself . I try to emphasise that Dash has fantastic technology and innovations, which lead me to Dash in the first place. I'm sure if you read all my posts you will see that written in more than one place. I am heavily invested in Dash and a masternode owner. So yes a disgruntled investor if thats how you wish to define it. I am happy with all aspects of Dash except the block allocation. I think it should reward miners more not less. Because I wish Dash to become a better store of value.

I am also entitled to express my viewpoint. Particularly when I see not only a failure to see an existing problem, but then a proposal which will make that problem worse. Of course I will express displeasure when I think my investment will suffer. I am trying to protect my investement just as you are with your fighting for the proposal. I can see Ryan/your side. I just disagree with it. However I sometimes think some of the proposal backers refuse to question their belief (or entertain in any way that it could have the wrong effect). By debates on here and on discord it is obvious people are not listening

@qwizzie i have been through many market cycles by now. And familiar with emotions at all stages of bubble cycles. I don't consider myself a noob. I do however fear that dash will lose market share and eventually relevance if it fails to value its miners. That is not because I am 'fearful' and the 'bottom of the bear market'. It is because I have rational reasons why dash is not performing as well as it should, when you consider all its achievement. I am convinced that Dash could and should be a top 5 coin. Certainly above litecoin and the bitcoin forks. Why isn't it? The block reward allocation explains this.  Yet people won't listen. Ryan has done a good service in showing how it can be altered, and then argued for it to go the wrong way.
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July 24, 2020, 11:12:05 PM
Last edit: July 24, 2020, 11:32:09 PM by afbitcoins

Block reward allocation is split into 2 main groups ( 3 if including treasury budget)

45% to the blockchain
45% to services
(10% to dev work and adverts)

The blockchain is all, without it there is nothing. Other proof of work projects like Litecoin are 100% rewards to the blockchain. They do very well without a service layer at all, as observed by their market cap. Because they don't have reward allocation to fund development of services they seek funding elsewhere outside their block rewards. There are pros and cons but the result is they have much less innovation than Dash and probably less independence. This is strange no? Why the most innovative and independent not doing as well as the ones with very little innovation?  This is observable very easily. We all know this in our hearts this feels wrong.

Now we decide 45% reward has not produced a big enough service layer. So we take it away from the blockchain. Thats like taking away foundations from a house to build a bigger shed.

IMO what we need to do is give much more rewards to the blockchain. Dash have a great service layer, Dash can fund own developemnt. Dash is pretending the blockchain and proof of work is not important. The blockchain is all important. The services are nice to haves and do set dash apart. Leader of a new category. But the value of the services do not compare even slightly with the value of the blockchain itself.




  

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