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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9670144 times)
afbitcoins
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October 25, 2020, 04:59:21 PM

Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?
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toknormal
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October 25, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2020, 09:23:00 AM by toknormal

Up until now, I've been talking about the "primary supply" (new mined supply) and people have responded with the #pumpIsComing theory of capital flows, saying that while I may have the odd valid point, when the "pump comes" it will blow these cobwebs away.

So I thought I'd have a look at the secondary market (exchanges, not mining) and see how absorbent Dash protocol is to rises in price there. But here I see a problem also.

As the coin supply gets absorbed into masternode collateral, it becomes ever less contiguous. What we saw in 2016 & 2017 was the low hanging fruit get put into masternodes, but we will reach a point where it gets exponentially more difficult to find any continuous block of 1000 Dash with the same ownership (or co-operative owners) at which point we've reached "equilibrium: As many masternodes get sold as bought and the nodecount remains constant.

So we MUST consider the protocol in the context of this equilibrium state. It isn't enough to depend on a growing masternode count because at some point (like now) it will hit the limit and at that point we want the capital value in the chain to maintain buoyancy. (Which it can do by directing any mining revenue that isn't absorbed by service provision towards keeping the block scarcity high for the majority of blocks).



Considering a rise in price in the secondary market then (i.e. nothing to do with mining, just new demand at exchanges) we know that that feeds through to mining difficulty to raise the cost of mining a block, and therefore keeps the "opening price" of each new block catching up with the secondary market. For a 100% mined coin, ALL of the money going to primary market is directed at this priority. (i.e. all revenue generated by newly minted coins goes towards raising the difficulty and therefore opening price across all of the chain. No blocks emerge with a zero cost base).



But in Dash it does not. What's supposed to happen is that some of that revenue was to go to finance the service layer, but instead it just goes straight into private hands, not funding either mining difficulty OR services because the masternode reward coins continue to be generated with a cost base of zero.

So we have a TRANSMISSION PROBLEM even in the #pumpIsComing scenario. Exchange demand does not fully feed through to scarcity. Instead it goes to MN profits directly. The way to sort this would be to set the two margins at parity - mining and masternode. That would allow the protocol to:

A. retain capital in the chain without it hemorrgaging out to uneconomic masternode margins

B. absorb far more of the secondary market demand (if and when it comes) as capital gain instead of it being derailed into masternode revenue (and from there, out of the network)



#nodesAreNotACharity
#setMarginsAtParity
Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 05:14:25 PM

I don't care about xmr, I lost everything trusting this dash, and he turned out to be just another scammer who spent all my savings.
Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?
Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 05:29:24 PM

 Watch this video, does it sound like a multi-million dollar project? The last money is actually sucked out of the coin. How will it grow if they don't do anything useful other than adding a% rollback to themselves.
Dash Podcast 157: Spencer Kuzara on Dash's New Username Wallet and Social DApps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOLgTBsBbPI

https://i.imgur.com/HW1MWmq.png
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October 25, 2020, 08:44:11 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2020, 09:49:25 PM by qwizzie



As i mentioned to you before, in my country cryptocurrency is treated like owning stock. Which means it is subject to property tax, not income tax.
We just calculate our total amount of cryptocurrency at a certain time (1st of Januari 00:00) and translate that to euro. That amount of Euro is then reported to the tax agency
and that amount will be taxed. Peace of cake.


That is fine for those few  that live in countries like yours. Doesn't help the rest much

It was not ment to help the rest, it was ment to remind toknormal that not all masternode operators have their
crypto taxed as income and not all masternode operators need to file tax returns for their masternode earnings.

Germany : only income tax if crypto is sold after being held less then a year. Otherwise it is treated as private money
Source : https://tokentax.co/guides/crypto-taxes-in-germany/

Note : this could encourage masternode operators to store their masternode rewards for at least a year, so it falls under private money.
Specially in a bear market that would make sense.

The Netherlands : property tax, the cost basis can only be carried back to January 1st of the given tax year, after which it resets
Source : https://tokentax.co/guides/crypto-taxes-in-the-netherlands/#overview-of-dutch-crypto-taxation

Note : the lower the price of Dash on 1st of January on each tax year, the lower the property tax

Both Germany and The Netherlands have a large concentration of masternodes in Europe.
Source : https://masternodes.online/currencies/DASH/ (see masternodes map)


The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
afbitcoins
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October 26, 2020, 11:08:14 AM

I don't care about xmr, I lost everything trusting this dash, and he turned out to be just another scammer who spent all my savings.
Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?

Sorry to hear. I can understand disappointment in Dash since 2017 but that doesn't mean scam IMO. None of us had crystal ball. I thought the features and innovations combined with governance would cement dash in the top 5 or 10 back then. Hadn't realised at that point how  important scarcity through mining actually was. Thought the masternode rewards were a free lunch  (as most masternode owners still do)
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October 26, 2020, 11:30:40 AM
Last edit: October 26, 2020, 03:59:15 PM by toknormal


Hadn't realised at that point how  important scarcity through mining actually was. Thought the masternode rewards were a free lunch  (as most masternode owners still do)

Do you remember the commentary from last year that we were "wasting money on electricity companies" ? That didn't seem to have been thought through to me because the implication was that if it was spent on masternode margins instead it would be somehow "retained by the network".

But it isn't. It's retained by the pockets of masternode holders who are not "the network". New investors are not buying the capital that sits in MN holders pockets, they're buying into the blockchain scarcity value which is depleted by subsidising uneconomic masternode margins.

So from that perspective the conclusion was exactly the wrong way around. Invested capital from new investors paid to electricity companies (via miners) is RETAINED by the chain. It comes back to us via increased competition for the primary supply. Non-performing masternode margins however do not. That capital value leaves the network altogether.

They don't even necessarily make masternodes more attractive in the marketplace because, while Dash protocol can set the margins, we need the co-operation of the market to determine ROI, since capital gain/loss completes the picture for ROI. If we don't have the capital flows setup right for the market then the reward ratio makes no difference. That's why we need to make capital retention a top priority for the protocol IMO so that:

1. it works as a store of value and then
2. market will endorse masternode ROI through capital gain

#nodesAreNotACharity
#setMarginsAtParity


#cruiseShip --> #tightShip


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October 26, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Last edit: October 26, 2020, 01:18:53 PM by afbitcoins

I've superimposed the price chart with the number of masternodes. And with as much accuracy as I can scaled the timescales on both to line up.

chart

Interested on how people view this.

Some of my thoughts..

Initial ramping up of masternodes, first 3000 or so barely affected price. I'm assuming whales creating masternodes from their existing stash (obtained in large part from fast/instamine origin) would account for a lot of that?

After first year of masternodes price and number of masternodes both growing. Can probably assume growing masternode count was a big factor supporting price until start of 2019 with people buying dash from the market to use as collateral.

Big distortion caused by speculative bubble. However by start of 2019 number of masternodes saturated (it had already been slowing down for some time before that). Bear market in price had already been underway for a year. No more support from growing masternode layer. Dash bear market prolonged, seen by dash crashing out of the green price channel I've marked.

Today, it looks like masternode number is roughly at a ceiling. May be able to go slightly higher. Price is still down approx 95% from its high. Dash masternode community trying to enforce more rewards for masternode owners. To entice more dash to be bought and hodl'd as collateral. Will this work? Will it be sustainable? How high can the number of masternodes go?


I think toknormal made good points in above post and other posts. we need to plan for equilibrium state of a masternode layer no longer growing. Which will be hit at some point if not already. This shouldn't be something to fear, most coins manage to find holders who want to hold only for capital gains and store of wealth. Dash needs to do what they do, to attract store of wealth, the same way. By maximising scarcity of supply. Which is what toknormal has patiently explained many times

Price is possibly/ hopefully sustainable at this level. However if price rises we should factor that the masternode rewards get more and more expensive for the market to sustain the higher price goes.  
afbitcoins
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October 26, 2020, 12:00:53 PM


Do you remember the commentary from last year that we were "wasting money on electricity companies" ?


Yes, and the famous "We don't need all the hashrate"

I think that could be read as "We don't need all the scarcity or store of value"

Very true another argument that the proposal will aggravate the problem its trying to remedy
Dahaa
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October 26, 2020, 02:19:48 PM

dash \ btc breaks new bottom! Even qwizzie stuck his tongue up his ass.
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October 26, 2020, 02:54:33 PM

Few memories. And this has been going on for 3 years. And at the same time they throw mud at me. Look, did I cheat someone, unlike them !?
It fell 100 positions, returned 1, and qwizzie has a big rise. 100 pages ago he wrote the same thing, only now the dash was much more expensive than it is now
Dash momentarily topped at 0.006540 and is currently correcting at 0.006429 / $73
I would say morning has broken for Dash  Grin

https://i.imgur.com/GIbwyME.jpg

Which in music sounds like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ0VZjrN3dI




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October 26, 2020, 03:37:52 PM

Here's another one! So who is the crook here? Making money off gullible people?
30M Time interval
https://i.imgur.com/C2LoMi9.jpg
Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DASH-BTC?period=30m

1D Time Interval
https://i.imgur.com/5CZFOTi.jpg
Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DASH-BTC?period=1d

Dash price getting closer to 0.008848 BTC, will Dash flip it into support and break into 0.009 BTC ? Stay tuned.....
Bitcoin Marketcap Dominance : 58,3%
toknormal
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October 27, 2020, 01:36:49 AM
Last edit: October 27, 2020, 01:50:57 AM by toknormal


Important information for anyone draining the Dash chain of capital value. Possible pump on the cards ? Wink
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October 27, 2020, 04:11:22 AM
Last edit: October 27, 2020, 07:26:12 AM by qwizzie

Dash Core v0.16.0.1 Update Progress

Miners


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (V16.0 Adoption)

Note : this will be subject to constant fluctuations, but should improve when more mining pools update to our latest Dash Core v0.16.0.1  

Goal currently is reaching 79.22% of the mined blocks signalling readiness for v0.16.0.1 after which two additional 7 days time windows
start (one after the other) to both lock-in the blockreward allocation change and to activate it.

Masternodes


Source : https://www.dashninja.pl/deterministic-masternodes.html

Note : Goal is reaching 80% of masternodes on v0.16.0.1 after which a time window of 7 days is given to those masternode operators that have not updated yet, to do so.

After those 7 days, spork 21 will be activated and masternodes on older Dash Core versions will start to get PoSe scored and ultimately PoSe banned from the network.  

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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October 27, 2020, 08:36:17 AM


Note : Goal is reaching 80% of masternodes on v0.16.0.1...spork 21 will be activated

Charge of the Light Brigade.
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October 27, 2020, 08:53:42 AM


Note : Goal is reaching 80% of masternodes on v0.16.0.1...spork 21 will be activated

Charge of the Light Brigade.




To unify our network.



The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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October 27, 2020, 08:55:58 AM


To unify our network.

...in poverty.
qwizzie
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October 27, 2020, 08:57:59 AM


To unify our network.

...in poverty.

... in strength.

On a side note :

It must be disturbing for you to see such increased support from miners for v0.16.0.1
I guess miners don't see value in your market theory either.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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October 27, 2020, 09:00:28 AM

in strength.

Well we're gonna need it because it sure ain't gonna be "in wealth".
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October 27, 2020, 09:05:23 AM

Check out the dash \ btc chart and shove your fucking spork 21 up your ass Shocked
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