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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9725357 times)
qwizzie
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October 24, 2020, 03:26:09 PM


To toknormal : a perfect time for you to ask Ryan Taylor's opinion about your (unsupported) market theory.

No need to spread it here, when you can spread your (unsupported) market theory to a much wider Dash audience.
Unless you worry about the feedback you receive ?

That isn't who needs to be convinced. It's the community that needs to understand it. (The market already does).


You are worried about the feedback ... got it.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
toknormal
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October 24, 2020, 04:04:52 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2020, 05:04:58 PM by toknormal


You are worried about the feedback ... got it.

I already had feedback from DCG and its formal position is to categorically dismiss the role of mining in store of value, other than to secure a leadership position within the masternode sector.  ("We don't need all this hashrate"....."except where we do"). It's been made abundantly clear that that is the end of the story as far as it's concerned. Unfortunately the market doesn't seem to concur with that view which is why I've persisted with this analysis in studying why the recent vote to change the protocol didn't have a significant impact on valuation or ranking.

Also I'd appreciate if you'd stop referring to this as a "theory". It's an observation of capital flows and how masternode rewards are not recycled back into the chain, either as mining power or in service layer costs. Public domain knowledge and published Dash protocol. If you were a masternode holder at the height of the market and received $1400 dollars worth of Dash each WEEK for doing absolutely nothing, you'd know that intuitively without even having to understand the protocol.

You'd also know it if you'd ever had to file a tax return for masternode earnings since it's recorded as income followed by a capital acquisition, where you're taxed on the full value of the income. That's where your cost base comes from - not the scarcity value established by competitive mining.

A Litecoin miner who receives $1400 from the chain at least has to apply their rig to near the tune of that value to make the next block less accessible. (A legitimate and better use of their reward than paying tax authorities IMO). Therefore no blocks at all emerge from the Litecoin chain with a price-tag of zero. That's why store-of-value seekers invest in Litecoin over Dash.

(Consequently it's why Litecoin is now getting more traffic than Dash. Nothing to do with ease of use.)

qwizzie
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October 24, 2020, 05:18:08 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2020, 06:26:03 PM by qwizzie


You are worried about the feedback ... got it.

You'd also know it if you'd ever had to file a tax return for masternode earnings since it's recorded as income followed by a capital acquisition, where you're taxed on the full value of the income. That's where your cost base comes from - not the scarcity value established by competitive mining.


As i mentioned to you before, in my country cryptocurrency is treated like owning stock. Which means it is subject to property tax, not income tax.
We just calculate our total amount of cryptocurrency at a certain time (1st of Januari 00:00) and translate that to euro. That amount of Euro is then reported to the tax agency
and that amount will be taxed. Peace of cake.

There is no filing a tax return for masternodes earnings. Our tax agency is not even interested in what kind of cryptocurrency we have. They just want to know how much the cryptocurrency
we have in total is worth in Euro at a certain time.

There is no difference for the tax agency if people have a certain amount of Euro on a bank account or if people have a certain amount of cryptocurrency on a hardware wallet.
Both are reported in euro and both are subject to the same property tax.

And no, i will not stop calling your market theory a theory. Because that is exactly what it is, a personal and unproven theory with an abundance of decorative pictures.
Thank you by the way for the reference link to where you discussed this before : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/consensus-mechanisms.49135/page-2



Ryan Taylor does make a lot of sense. I guess this means you did make a purchase all these many years ago based on poor rationale.

I certainly did not invest in Dash because it was suppose to be a 'high energy budget coin, with on-chain services that are competitive with other high energy budget coins'.
I invested in Dash because of the masternode rewards and its schedule.

Dash original masternode payment schedule (2014) :

Quote
if(nHeight > 158000) ret += blockValue / 20; //25.0% - 2014-10-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*1)) ret += blockValue / 20; //30.0% - 2014-11-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*2)) ret += blockValue / 20; //35.0% - 2014-12-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*3)) ret += blockValue / 40; //37.5% - 2015-01-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*4)) ret += blockValue / 40; //40.0% - 2015-02-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*5)) ret += blockValue / 40; //42.5% - 2015-03-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*6)) ret += blockValue / 40; //45.0% - 2015-04-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*7)) ret += blockValue / 40; //47.5% - 2015-05-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*9)) ret += blockValue / 40; //50.0% - 2015-07-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*11)) ret += blockValue / 40; //52.5% - 2015-09-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*13)) ret += blockValue / 40; //55.0% - 2015-11-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*15)) ret += blockValue / 40; //57.5% - 2016-01-23
if(nHeight > 158000+((576*30)*17)) ret += blockValue / 40; //60.0% - 2016-03-23

Scheduled to lead Dash to 60% of the blockrewards to masternodes and 40% of the blockrewards to miners in 2016.
Ironic how we are coming full circle to this original masternode payment schedule again. Only at a much slower rate.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
toknormal
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October 24, 2020, 05:43:13 PM


a personal and unproven theory with an abundance of decorative pictures.

Well I admit it's difficult to compete with the #pumpIsComing theory of capital flows as a basis for attracting new investors. Long may it outlast investor due diligence otherwise we're screwed as long as we stick with the current protocol Wink
aleix
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October 24, 2020, 06:50:16 PM



Dash Podcast 157: Spencer Kuzara on Dash's New Username Wallet and Social DApps

https://odysee.com/@DigitalCashNetwork:c/Dash-Podcast-157:9?r=FqowB2QREmrBV4DcLpAWb8cz2K4gYVUV
toknormal
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October 24, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Last edit: October 24, 2020, 07:34:07 PM by toknormal


I invested in Dash because of the masternode rewards and its schedule.

But you're not receiving any masternode reward because its bottom line measure is capital gain (due to Dash not being a stable coin). So you should be supporting my reasoned arguments to prioritise capital value over Dash-denominated margins which are meaningless in the event of a capital loss.
Pang.
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October 24, 2020, 08:14:15 PM

The average of 7 and the average of 25 sessions has been crossed again and could give place to run bull as on other occasions.

It is not a 100% reliable indication, but more than 50% of the time a sustained rise has started for weeks.

Greetings and good luck.











Tungi17
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October 25, 2020, 03:29:31 AM

Dash Podcast 157: Spencer Kuzara on Dash's New Username Wallet and Social DApps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOLgTBsBbPI

TillKoeln
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unnamed.Exchange, join the Cool Kids!!!


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October 25, 2020, 12:22:43 PM


qwizzie
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October 25, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2020, 12:56:31 PM by qwizzie



That is great !! I always wanted Dash to be added to some tiny unnamed exchange !!
Thank you.

I assume they have unnamed users there as well ? Maybe you could even change the listed cryptocurrencies there to unnamed, that way you have an unnamed exchange
with unnamed users trading unnamed cryptocurrencies. That would be super doopy cool.

Interesting DOGE / BTC chart by the way.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
TillKoeln
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unnamed.Exchange, join the Cool Kids!!!


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October 25, 2020, 01:14:39 PM

That is great !! I always wanted Dash to be added to some tiny unnamed exchange !!
Thank you.
I assume they have unnamed users there as well ? Maybe you could even change the listed cryptocurrencies there to unnamed, that way you have an unnamed exchange
with unnamed users trading unnamed cryptocurrencies. That would be super doopy cool.
lmao  Grin
Interesting DOGE / BTC chart by the way.
or frontend ?  Grin


Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 04:24:27 PM

That shit got kicked out of the top 30 again. Where's the big jump in price after the reward update? Grin
Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 04:32:10 PM

Soon bsv 200 $ xmr 150 $ ltc 70-100 $ and the best coin will sell for 30-40 $.
afbitcoins
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October 25, 2020, 04:49:32 PM



As i mentioned to you before, in my country cryptocurrency is treated like owning stock. Which means it is subject to property tax, not income tax.
We just calculate our total amount of cryptocurrency at a certain time (1st of Januari 00:00) and translate that to euro. That amount of Euro is then reported to the tax agency
and that amount will be taxed. Peace of cake.


That is fine for those few  that live in countries like yours. Doesn't help the rest much
afbitcoins
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October 25, 2020, 04:59:21 PM

Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?
toknormal
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October 25, 2020, 05:12:55 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2020, 09:23:00 AM by toknormal

Up until now, I've been talking about the "primary supply" (new mined supply) and people have responded with the #pumpIsComing theory of capital flows, saying that while I may have the odd valid point, when the "pump comes" it will blow these cobwebs away.

So I thought I'd have a look at the secondary market (exchanges, not mining) and see how absorbent Dash protocol is to rises in price there. But here I see a problem also.

As the coin supply gets absorbed into masternode collateral, it becomes ever less contiguous. What we saw in 2016 & 2017 was the low hanging fruit get put into masternodes, but we will reach a point where it gets exponentially more difficult to find any continuous block of 1000 Dash with the same ownership (or co-operative owners) at which point we've reached "equilibrium: As many masternodes get sold as bought and the nodecount remains constant.

So we MUST consider the protocol in the context of this equilibrium state. It isn't enough to depend on a growing masternode count because at some point (like now) it will hit the limit and at that point we want the capital value in the chain to maintain buoyancy. (Which it can do by directing any mining revenue that isn't absorbed by service provision towards keeping the block scarcity high for the majority of blocks).



Considering a rise in price in the secondary market then (i.e. nothing to do with mining, just new demand at exchanges) we know that that feeds through to mining difficulty to raise the cost of mining a block, and therefore keeps the "opening price" of each new block catching up with the secondary market. For a 100% mined coin, ALL of the money going to primary market is directed at this priority. (i.e. all revenue generated by newly minted coins goes towards raising the difficulty and therefore opening price across all of the chain. No blocks emerge with a zero cost base).



But in Dash it does not. What's supposed to happen is that some of that revenue was to go to finance the service layer, but instead it just goes straight into private hands, not funding either mining difficulty OR services because the masternode reward coins continue to be generated with a cost base of zero.

So we have a TRANSMISSION PROBLEM even in the #pumpIsComing scenario. Exchange demand does not fully feed through to scarcity. Instead it goes to MN profits directly. The way to sort this would be to set the two margins at parity - mining and masternode. That would allow the protocol to:

A. retain capital in the chain without it hemorrgaging out to uneconomic masternode margins

B. absorb far more of the secondary market demand (if and when it comes) as capital gain instead of it being derailed into masternode revenue (and from there, out of the network)



#nodesAreNotACharity
#setMarginsAtParity
Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 05:14:25 PM

I don't care about xmr, I lost everything trusting this dash, and he turned out to be just another scammer who spent all my savings.
Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?
Dahaa
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October 25, 2020, 05:29:24 PM

 Watch this video, does it sound like a multi-million dollar project? The last money is actually sucked out of the coin. How will it grow if they don't do anything useful other than adding a% rollback to themselves.
Dash Podcast 157: Spencer Kuzara on Dash's New Username Wallet and Social DApps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOLgTBsBbPI

https://i.imgur.com/HW1MWmq.png
qwizzie
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October 25, 2020, 08:44:11 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2020, 09:49:25 PM by qwizzie



As i mentioned to you before, in my country cryptocurrency is treated like owning stock. Which means it is subject to property tax, not income tax.
We just calculate our total amount of cryptocurrency at a certain time (1st of Januari 00:00) and translate that to euro. That amount of Euro is then reported to the tax agency
and that amount will be taxed. Peace of cake.


That is fine for those few  that live in countries like yours. Doesn't help the rest much

It was not ment to help the rest, it was ment to remind toknormal that not all masternode operators have their
crypto taxed as income and not all masternode operators need to file tax returns for their masternode earnings.

Germany : only income tax if crypto is sold after being held less then a year. Otherwise it is treated as private money
Source : https://tokentax.co/guides/crypto-taxes-in-germany/

Note : this could encourage masternode operators to store their masternode rewards for at least a year, so it falls under private money.
Specially in a bear market that would make sense.

The Netherlands : property tax, the cost basis can only be carried back to January 1st of the given tax year, after which it resets
Source : https://tokentax.co/guides/crypto-taxes-in-the-netherlands/#overview-of-dutch-crypto-taxation

Note : the lower the price of Dash on 1st of January on each tax year, the lower the property tax

Both Germany and The Netherlands have a large concentration of masternodes in Europe.
Source : https://masternodes.online/currencies/DASH/ (see masternodes map)


Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
afbitcoins
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October 26, 2020, 11:08:14 AM

I don't care about xmr, I lost everything trusting this dash, and he turned out to be just another scammer who spent all my savings.
Dahaa whats the deal with you? Are you invested in monero?

Sorry to hear. I can understand disappointment in Dash since 2017 but that doesn't mean scam IMO. None of us had crystal ball. I thought the features and innovations combined with governance would cement dash in the top 5 or 10 back then. Hadn't realised at that point how  important scarcity through mining actually was. Thought the masternode rewards were a free lunch  (as most masternode owners still do)
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