[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Solarminer]

I do not see Bitcoin as "The One" and I haven't for a long time. Bitcoin was a brilliant start, and Evan is undoubtedly standing on the shoulders of giants. But Bitcoin has too many problems to allow it to "take over." The *only* advantage that Bitcoin has over Dash is its network effect. I admit that network effects are difficult to overcome, but consider:

1) Bitcoin is too slow to use in person-to-person transactions.
2) Bitcoin's fees are too high for it to be used for micropayments.
3) Bitcoin doesn't scale past 7 TPS.
4) Bitcoin's blockchain is huge and it's unlikely to be pruned due to consensus issues.
5) Bitcoin has a very high level of infighting and it's nearly impossible to achieve consensus. As Tok pointed out earlier, the only consensus in the Bitcoin community is that it should be left alone and never changed, updated, improved, or fixed.
6) Bitcoin nodes are disappearing at an alarming rate because they aren't incentivized.
7) Bitcoin's consensus mechanism is under constant risk of attack. Collusion of just two pools would allow double-spends.
Long-standing issues like transaction malleability still have not been cleared up, and there's no sign that Bitcoin developers have any interest in fixing them.
9) Bitcoin's governance model is deeply flawed. Funding comes from centralized sources (Foundation and MIT) and governance is dangerously fragmented between often-hostile devs.
10) Bitcoin is and always will be traceable. People don't want the world knowing the details of their finances, and as more people move into crypto this will become a bigger and bigger issue. "You mean everybody can see how much money I have and where I sent it if they know my address?"
11) Bitcoin devs and maximists have their heads buried in the sand and refuse to accept that Bitcoin might not be the solution for everything. It's analogous to the situation in World War II when Japanese admirals were too scared or proud to report their actual losses, and so their high command kept making decisions based on incorrect information.
12) Centralization and censorship in the community. Theymos has managed to grab ownership of BCT and the subreddit and regularly censors any voices he disagrees with (case-in-point: anyone who talked about Bitcoin-XT).
13) Bitcoin is complicated to use and understand for a neophite. We all remember how long it took us to fully wrap our heads around everything.

Dash already solves many of these problems, and Dash Evolution will solve the rest of them:

1) Dash has InstantX, which allows transactions to be fully confirmed in about four seconds.
2) Dash Evolution apparently has no fees (information from the slide).
3) Dash Evolution will scale to 1500+ TPS.
4) Dash Evolution is likely to use pruning at some point (Evan has spoken about this before and says pruning is definitely possible).
5) Dash enables masternode owners to vote and express their opinions in a binding fashion using the decentralized budgeting system.
6) Dash nodes (masternodes) are incentivized and the number grows daily. The growth will eventually taper, but there is very little chance of numbers declining due to the significant incentivization.
7) Dash Evolution will have a confirmationless wallet using InstantX locks for all transactions. Even if one entity gets 51% or more of the network's hash power, it will be impossible to double-spend.
Dash developers regularly incorporate fixes as the problems are discovered. A great example of this was the "dead change" issue that Aswan discovered last year. It was fixed very rapidly.
9) Dash uses Decentralized Governance by Blockchain to enforce good governance and to pay developers directly from the blockchain. It's decentralized and trustless.
10) Dash users have the option of using Darksend to anonymize their transactions, and Dash Evolution will build this anonymity into the protocol itself, making all transactions anonymous by default.
11) Dash regularly incorporates new ideas from the community and from other cryptos, or even from the trolls in our own community. Evan has actually said that many of his best ideas came from the arguments trolls were trying to use against us.
12) This thread is unmoderated, and Dashtalk, while moderated, has no history of censorship.
13) Dash Evolution will be using a decentralized API to make the network trivial to use for newbies (information comes from presentation slide...I don't know how this works yet, but I do know that Evan has previously said that making Dash easy to use was a priority).

Good points.

Can somebody produce a nice infographic (Dash vs Bitcoin) based on  this type of comparison?

I'm going to create a DASH v Bitcoin infographic based on the info above, but before I continue, what do people think of the initial design? be truthful and if you have ideas of how the data can be represented, please speak up.

Ddink7, as always, fantastic summary.  Keep em coming.

Dazbarlby, Like the design.
A couple things.

The 7 transactions per second is high and only valid for small transaction sizes (1 in 1 out).  Average transaction size limits this closer to the 2-4 trans/sec.  I would also add that bitcoin is already hitting it's block size limit(maximum amount of transactions/block) and has no room to expand unless changes are made.

Bitcoin block time is 10 minutes, but most exchanges use 2 blocks.  So 20 minutes is average but can actually be 10 to 50 minutes based on block length variability.  I guess I would put 20 minutes on your picture to make it simple.

Dash with InstantX will have 5 block confirmations in 4 seconds(actual speed is about 0.1 second from what I can tell), which is considered safe for most uses. (For those that want to correct this statement, it is actually 5 irreversible pending block confirmations that get confirmed along with a 6th on the next block about 2.5 minutes after the instantx is sent.)

A bitcoin is the unit of currency.  Use Bitcoin to refer to the protocol/concept/technology.

[iCEBREAKER]

[pages of off-topic rambling]

Back to Dash....nice presentation today https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=2&v=x7ivPegT1Ds

Mentioning Dash at the end of your post barely makes it arguably on-top.

Good job!   

[iCEBREAKER]

This is your problem:

in less than 8 hours, almost 5% of the Darkcoins that ever will be created spawned in that 1/3 of a day.

It's safe to say Darkcoin has left its investors in the dark on this one.

#r3kt

Some of us nobodies were there, you jealous?

I'm not jealous because I've never been impressed with obfuscation-based mixing/shuffling/tumbling schemes.  They can all be unraveled, especially if trusted third parties like Masternodes are involved.

I'm only interested in trust-free solutions using implementations of zero knowledge proofs and homomorphic functions, such as Monero's ring signatures.

Dash's HYIPy proof-of-stake is another no-go for me, as is its shady instamine and botched launch/emission.

Changing brands is one thing, changing mission statements is another.  This coin has been relaunched more times than the iPhone!

It is fraud to sell Darkcoins based on the promise of privacy, and then suddenly switch to trying to be yet another retail payment rail like Dash.  And then there is this latest "Evolution" gimmick, trying to hop on the popular intelli-hashing Turing-complete smart-chain bandwagon as yet another Ethereum wanna-be.

This project has no solid core.  'Dash' is a verb, not a noun, because it IS only whatever eduffield DOES, nothing more.

Hence the problematic Bus Factor of 1.  If eduffield quits, is arrested for fraud, or hit by a bus, this thing is over.  That makes it a hobbyist's pet project, not a real contender for e-cash.

So much wrong in your last post.

It certainly wasn't worth deleting and reposting, which just proves that this is all a game to you.

How sad and pathetic your life must be, fighting a losing battle against a legit project, having your main investment tank, and getting owned over your BS arguments time and time again.

On top of that, all the real Dash work is done away from this thread. Dash has grown up and expanded to beyond the little world of BCT.

You should grow up as well. Put the broken iPod out of its misery, and rethink your life, because you really come across as one hell of a dick here.

Mentioning Dash at the end of your (99% ad-hom) post barely makes it arguably on-top.

Good job!   

[toknormal]

Please stay on-topic!

I think we might be approaching iCEBREAKER's sell-by date now that the fallback has become the standard.

(P.S. You were doin' ok with your zero knowledge proofs and homomorphic functions that don't have more backdoors than a city brothel nor depend on armies of bitcointalk trolls for marketing. Should've stuck with that )

[stealth923]

Eduardo (aka Icebreaker) you need to start thinking long term....you are so short sighted....just trolling about Dash all day long - you little hashfast scammer you...

Have you thought about whats going to happen when you drop the soap in the shower, eating the same meal every single day, 1 hour of sunlight a day and holding the pocket of the prison kingpin during yard time.

Keeping ON TOPIC of instamine - I bet during your first 72 hours in jail you will be instamined by the inmates more times then dash ever was.

By that time, Dash will be a long distant memory and you will have more important things to think about. Have fun k thx bye

[TanteStefana2]

...  How is she on presenting Dash?
...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NF5XU-k2Vk

Just like Dash, pretty women get a bad rap!  All based on jealousy!  When in actuality, beauty brightens up the world in all it's forms.  Including those who aren't perfect specimens but have beautiful personalities and lots of love to share

[TanteStefana2]

I'm going to create a DASH v Bitcoin infographic based on the info above, but before I continue, what do people think of the initial design? be truthful and if you have ideas of how the data can be represented, please speak up.

I like it, but it's getting to be a comparison of apples and oranges.  I highly suggest that in the infographic, we suggest uses for Bitcoin, such as the gateway between fiat and crypto, with Banks being encouraged to use it for settlement, and opening up to the public for easy access.  Bitcoin has an important roll to play, just not at the general public level.  And suggesting it's usefulness, and acceptance at that level helps people picture the future and eliminates unnecessary animosity between communities.

Perhaps the theme should be more about how they complement each other?

[iCEBREAKER]

Eduardo (aka Icebreaker) you need to start thinking long term....you are so short sighted....just trolling about Dash all day long - you little hashfast scammer you...

Have you thought about whats going to happen when you drop the soap in the shower, eating the same meal every single day, 1 hour of sunlight a day and holding the pocket of the prison kingpin during yard time.

Keeping ON TOPIC of instamine - I bet during your first 72 hours in jail you will be instamined by the inmates more times then dash ever was.

By that time, Dash will be a long distant memory and you will have more important things to think about. Have fun k thx bye

Attacking people/biographies/motiviations certainly is easier than defending Dash's instamine, bad crypto, sudden rebrands, etc, isn't it?

GLWT. 

[BlockaFett]

Eduardo (aka Icebreaker) you need to start thinking long term....you are so short sighted....just trolling about Dash all day long - you little hashfast scammer you...

Have you thought about whats going to happen when you drop the soap in the shower, eating the same meal every single day, 1 hour of sunlight a day and holding the pocket of the prison kingpin during yard time.

Keeping ON TOPIC of instamine - I bet during your first 72 hours in jail you will be instamined by the inmates more times then dash ever was.

By that time, Dash will be a long distant memory and you will have more important things to think about. Have fun k thx bye

Attacking people/biographies/motiviations certainly is easier than defending Dash's instamine, bad crypto, sudden rebrands, etc, isn't it?

GLWT. 

instamine:  https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/  &  http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
rebranding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding
"bad crypto": bit vague Eduardo, you have anything substantive, or just more fud?

[toknormal]

Attacking people/biographies/motiviations certainly is easier than defending Dash's instamine, bad crypto, sudden rebrands, etc, isn't it?

GLWT.  

That might be because "people's biographies and motivations" are far more relevant to present events than "Dash's instamine" is  

[tungfa]

Dash (Evan Duffield) at FinTech Amsterdam Oct 2015 Video
(better sound ?!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijd2eCibBz0&feature=youtu.be

[TanteStefana2]

instamine:  https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/  &  http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118
rebranding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding
"bad crypto": bit vague Eduardo, you have anything substantive, or just more fud?

I was looking EVERYWHERE for that link!  I had to go take my kids somewhere but was getting so late, my husband finally stepped in and took care of it, LOL.  I was so obsessed with finding it, and here you just posted it!

[TanteStefana2]

"bad crypto": bit vague Eduardo, you have anything substantive, or just more fud?

It's a reference to a Peter Todd remark: "Yup! Rather have cleaned up bad code w/ good crypto over bad crypto...".

Where Dash is supposed to be the "bad crypto".

Draw your own conclusions   2 Peas in a (Todd). Just as well he's exempt from having to solve any real problems 

LOL, so true.  That guy is the absolute worst of the Bitcoiners in my opinion, and most worthless.

[toknormal]

"bad crypto": bit vague Eduardo, you have anything substantive, or just more fud?

It's a reference to a Peter Todd remark: "Yup! Rather have cleaned up bad code w/ good crypto over bad crypto...".

Where Dash is supposed to be the "bad crypto".

Draw your own conclusions. 2 Peas in a (Todd). Just as well he's exempt from having to build and complete any real software projects. It might impact adversely on his trainspotter career  

[flailing Junk]

--Sure thing...but good luck. They've been arguing about block size for two years, and malleability has been a known problem for four. It's not that these problems are impossible to solve technically--Dash proves that they aren't. The problem is that the Bitcoin devs and community simply do not innovate for political reasons.

Great, so I think this line of reasoning implies that the failure state of bitcoin is failure to increase capacity in the face of adoption or failure to increase privacy/fungibility in the face of government or other intrusions. So if this is true we should see:

1) Transaction volume increases for bitcoin stopping near the current limit and transaction volume for alts starting to rise

or

2) Some kind of transaction analysis attack coinciding with bitcoin transaction volumes slowing or stagnating, not necessarily near the capacity limit, and volume of alts rising

Anyone got any other testable predictions in line with this reasoning?

If this is it we can dispense with the reasons and just watch bitcoin and, say the top 5 alts and look for alt transaction volume increasing coinciding with a decline or stagnation in bitcoin transaction volume. Dash and litecoin should be on the list, but not ripple I think. Is bitshares even trying to be a currency? What do you guys think are the true top 5 alts?

[TanteStefana2]

--Sure thing...but good luck. They've been arguing about block size for two years, and malleability has been a known problem for four. It's not that these problems are impossible to solve technically--Dash proves that they aren't. The problem is that the Bitcoin devs and community simply do not innovate for political reasons.

Great, so I think this line of reasoning implies that the failure state of bitcoin is failure to increase capacity in the face of adoption or failure to increase privacy/fungibility in the face of government or other intrusions. So if this is true we should see:

1) Transaction volume increases for bitcoin stopping near the current limit and transaction volume for alts starting to rise

or

2) Some kind of transaction analysis attack coinciding with bitcoin transaction volumes slowing or stagnating, not necessarily near the capacity limit, and volume of alts rising

Anyone got any other testable predictions in line with this reasoning?

If this is it we can dispense with the reasons and just watch bitcoin and, say the top 5 alts and look for alt transaction volume increasing coinciding with a decline or stagnation in bitcoin transaction volume. Dash and litecoin should be on the list, but not ripple I think. Is bitshares even trying to be a currency? What do you guys think are the true top 5 alts?

I think the biggest opportunity Bitcoin XT or whatever it's called offers the Bitcoin community, is the opportunity to give the project back to Gavin.  Who cares about the block size, the project has been in serious decline since Gavin left, and going with XT gives Gavin the keys back to the car.

[busterzzz]

dashchat.co - the #dashpay freenode IRC portal

http://www.dashchat.co/

This is a web IRC client that will take you to the #dashpay channel on Freenode IRC. It's very user friendly in the hopes of bringing some of the less tech savy community members into the discussion.

The main chat is #dashpay but I also added a secondary chat room #dashchat to limit intimidation factor for newer people (I still find it hard to join the discussion even as an established member).

I added a section below the chat box listing the dash price @dashpay twitter feed. I'll be adding a dash news section shortly. Any suggestions welcome.

I'm using an opensource web irc project called http://shout-irc.com/

Note: This is not an attempt to create a new community in any way. I am utilizing an already existing chat room and making it easier for people to get in there.

[TanteStefana2]

dashchat.co - the #dashpay freenode IRC portal

http://www.dashchat.co/

This is a web IRC client that will take you to the #dashpay channel on Freenode IRC. It's very user friendly in the hopes of bringing some of the less tech savy community members into the discussion.

The main chat is #dashpay but I also added a secondary chat room #dashchat to limit intimidation factor for newer people (I still find it hard to join the discussion even as an established member).

I added a section below the chat box listing the dash price @dashpay twitter feed. I'll be adding a dash news section shortly. Any suggestions welcome.

I'm using an opensource web irc project called http://shout-irc.com/

Note: This is not an attempt to create a new community in any way. I am utilizing an already existing chat room and making it easier for people to get in there.

That's a nice idea.  I haven't opened IRC in probably over 6 months.  I just don't like it, but I'll take a look at this.  Maybe it "feels" better? 

[busterzzz]

That's a nice idea.  I haven't opened IRC in probably over 6 months.  I just don't like it, but I'll take a look at this.  Maybe it "feels" better?  

I like the feel of it but that's just me. I've always used IRC clients but this is just way more convenient in my opinion. Give it a go when you get some time and let me know what you think.

[toknormal]

Anyone got any other testable predictions in line with this reasoning?

If this is it we can dispense with the reasons and just watch bitcoin and, say the top 5 alts and look for alt transaction volume increasing coinciding with a decline or stagnation in bitcoin transaction volume. Dash and litecoin should be on the list, but not ripple I think. Is bitshares even trying to be a currency? What do you guys think are the true top 5 alts?
[/quote]

What about monetary priorities ?

The properties of money are well understood - whether it's a rock, a piece of paper or an uncounterfeitable electronic token. Why do people never hold cryptocurrencies to account against the properties of money ?

[ANSWER: Because nobody has a clue what the properties of money are.]

In answer to your question about Bitshares let me say this to try to put things into perspective: There are two types of money:

[1] - real money ('cash', 'gold', etc)
[2] - credit money (IOU's)

Bitshares is a beautiful concept that resides in the [2] sphere. It is a decentralised bank and is not even attempting to do what bitcoin or dash is doing. Having said that, Bitshares does for banks what Dash does for gold: i,e, transports them to an electronic platform and decentralises the value proposition. What Bitshares can do is stabilise an elastic currency in the way regular banks do today, except in a decentralised way without a trusted counterparty. I have no doubt that Bitshares (or something like it) is going to mop up the credit market. To see that, just look at how well it has pegged its BitUSD asset to the US Dollar. Although the volume is paultry, the peg has worked and it is a 'real' peg. (In other words, traders value the BitUSD asset at parity with the dollar, even though the BitUSD is backed by BTS shares while the US Dollar is backed by the US government. To me, that is a huge achievement. Almost no-one realises the implications of that achievement. [I do and am invested appropriately] ).

Dash - on the other hand - resides in the [1] sphere. It is a base monetary token as opposed to a credit derivative (as BitUSD is) or derivative collateral (as BTS is). The innovation of bitcoin wasn't to be anything sophisticated, it was to be simply an un-counterfeitable token that could be passed around. That is actually pretty difficult on an electronic platform because of copy-paste capabilities. Anything that could defy copy-paste was instantly going to be a huge candidate for a new monetary medium. So bitcoin was it.

But what competitors does bitcoin realistically have ?

Only 3: Litecoin, Dash and Peercoin.

I dumped my Litecoin ages ago because it doesn't really have any distinctive economic policy.

That isn't the case for Peercoin or Dash. Peercoin is one of the great manifestations of cryptocurrency IMO. Its designer was far more concerned with the properties of money and economics than any near term valuation. It is a coin way ahead of its time but which may still pull through and fulfil its intended role as a trunk transport for a future decentralised financial system. I thought it was dead after last year's alt-coin carnage but then noticed it had survived the turmoil and decided it now had a long term future. Put it this way. If cryptocurrencies ever get anywhere such that the mainstream economy has to depend on them, you'll be able to retire on one Peercoin.

In Dash's case the monetary case is academic. There is no bitcion compatible clone that is turning delayed transactions into instant, turning unfungible address "lumps" into anonymous ones, and attaching a "rudder" to the rudderless ship that is decentralised money.

Whatever you think about any other cryptocurrency strategically, none of them - even bitcoin- are remotely as adoptable as Dash. In any economy, there is always a space for cash. But cash has to be instant, whether it's $1 million  or $1 dollar you're transferring. Would you accept a million dollars with 1 only confirmation ? By definition, cash works independently of the amount being transacted. That 1 fact disqualifies bitcoin and qualifies Dash.