[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[TanteStefana2]

Well no shit Sherlock, they pumped out dollars as fast as the digits could flow and they overran into the world economy, who'da thunk it? And now all them dollars don't quite add up to what they claim to add up to and everyone's in a panic. Ahh well, look on the bright side, at least no-one needs wheelbarrows to carry them around this time...

LOL, I think people forget how very real this was not so long ago.  My own Grandmother was a young adult then.  It's a very real possiblity.

https://youtu.be/syGAu0g8L6I

At least back then you could burn it to heat your tea kettle:


Or your house:


Of course most people think this could never ever happen, not in America!  Ha!  It just took a little longer but the game continued to be played the same, just more sophisticatedly.  Now we're all going down.

[1714519238]

1714519238

[TanteStefana2]

...

Lol, Andreas sums it up nicely here There'll be a lot more than 50 before it's all over...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM
EDIT: The quote's at about 24 minutes

He's always great to watch   I apologize for the huge picture.  I was trying to find a code for [img] to resize that one, but it doesn't seem to exist, so I shrunk it and uploaded it to imageshack, LOL.

[TanteStefana2]

The other thing is I need to research passphrase managers.  All these accounts are driving me nuts to be honest.  I'm an old lady, and can't take it. It's too annoying!

http://keepass.info/ and your search is over. Its Open source, easy to use, you create one password file you can backup everywhere, encrypted with one master-passphrase you choose. Available for Windows, Linux, Android ... (on this platforms I've testet it).

And there is also a KeePass intrgration in the Dash wallet already! https://dashtalk.org/threads/keepass-integration.3620/

Thanks pille, I still have to actually do it, LOL.

[patrolman]

I think that this services arent for all dashuser, you could put a fee or ads, if we dont user your service... we dont pay 960 dash for it...

I have to agree. It's not only a service which is not used by the majority of Dash currency users, but which is not used by most Masternode owners. Fees for those that use the service or ads (of the non-tracking variety) would seem like a more reasonable solution than a recurring payment. I would probably be more in favour of a one-off payment, depending on the amount.

Is there a process for changing a recurring vote in the future? Or is it locked in until all recurring payments have been made?

You couldn't be more wrong.  It's a bad misconception that it's for masternode owner's use only.  It's supposed to be a place to easily find and discuss proposals for all interested Dash users.  Hopefully well moderated, so that trolls don't drive things off topic.  Just users and investors interested in Dash development, usability and future.

And yes, there is a process to stop paying proposals, if that was your question.  We just have to vote it down until it's off the payment chart.

Why not a dedicated sub-forum for proposals on DashTalk and voting options integrated into the offical Dash client? I'm sure you're not the only one who couldn't be bothered signing up because they don't want another account to log in to. I imagine that most people with a strong interest in Dash would already be registered at DashTalk.

Who is behind Dashwhale? Do they log IP addresses? If not, the ISP probably does anyway. Are usernames kept in a database with a list of all MNs controlled by each person accessible by the website administrators? How could that be beneficial to Dash? It's probably not so important today, but if masternodes increases significantly there would no doubt be plenty of tax offices from around the world interested in finding out if they are owed any taxes. Maybe there would even be lobbying of the masternode owners in order to gain support for a proposal. Generally speaking, lobbying corrupts the democratic process as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying any of this is happening or will definitely happen but I think these and no doubt others are potential problems.

[patrolman]

Add width=x to the image tag to shrink images. Above I used width=200

I'm replying to you TanteStefana but I made a mess of the quoting so I'm going to leave it like this.

[cryptonewb]

...I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second...

My thinking goes this far.  Instant Transactions will have the input funds locked by a set of 10 masternodes chosen deterministically.  There are 3,500 masternodes.  Therefore 350 (3500/10) Instant Transactions (minus overhead) can be locked simultaneously.  If this process can happen a couple of times every second, then 500-1500 is the answer.

If there are any devs watching that want to correct me, please do. 

This is true but they have to be in a block later. This part is interesting.

would indeed be interesting to get an answer from a dev

[qwizzie]

...I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second...

My thinking goes this far.  Instant Transactions will have the input funds locked by a set of 10 masternodes chosen deterministically.  There are 3,500 masternodes.  Therefore 350 (3500/10) Instant Transactions (minus overhead) can be locked simultaneously.  If this process can happen a couple of times every second, then 500-1500 is the answer.

If there are any devs watching that want to correct me, please do.  

This is true but they have to be in a block later. This part is interesting.

would indeed be interesting to get an answer from a dev

i think most devs are experiencing some jetlag right now ..  
(and maybe a bit of a hangover from that excellent Dutch beer)

[cryptonewb]

And please answer cryptonewb's post too 'cos he's way ahead of me

@cryptonewb, as far as I know if you try and make a double spend of an input the same masternodes will be selected to process it but I'm really not sure, more reading up to do :/ They don't get fees though, they're paid a percentage of the block rewards rather than on individual transactions.

I thought the maternodes were chosen based on the transaction hash or something. Therefore, a double spend (with a different destination of course) would have a different hash => different masternodes to lock the transaction.

so masternodes don't get fees to lock transactions? How are the masternode rewards distributed then? How can the network "know" that masternodes are online and doing the work in stead of just being idle to have a lower bandwidth usage?

And please, can someone take a look at the questions I had earlier in bold:

I watched the vids. I'm still not sure how InstantX manages to be secure though...
I kinda understand how it works, but not sure how the security works.

This is how I think bitcoin works:
the big problem in cryptocurrencies is that there is lag on a network. If there wasn't lag, we could just all send transactions. Everybody would see the first transactions and an attempt at double spend would be automatically ignored.
But there is lag (latency) on a network, so we need some kind of synchronization. Therefore, bitcoin groups transactions in "blocks". These blocks are propagated in the network. Once a block is mined, the transaction has one confirmation. However, it's still possible someone mines on an older version of the chain, so for bigger transactions, it's better to wait for more (2, 3, ...) confirmations to be sure it's included in the longest chain.
(correct me if I'm wrong)

This is how I think DASH works:
There are decentralized oracles that are deterministically chosen and vote on "locking" a transaction. When the oracles decide that a transaction is locked, miners can't mine a double spend because all nodes (masternodes or all nodes?) reject transactions that are in conflict with the locked transaction. If a block is mined with a conflicting transaction, that block is rejected by the nodes and other miners (but how can you force miners to reject a block? ).
Also, I'm not clear on what happens with the double spend transaction if that one also get locked by other masternodes that ignore the first transaction. After all, your masternode get a fee when you vote for a transaction (I think?), so you have an incentive to vote for the double spent transaction. is it possible that there is a competing locked transaction?

So as you can see, I still have some questions about the security of InstantX. i marked them so it's easier to address them.

[cryptonewb]

...
What is this about? I didn't read the whole topic on dashtalk yet...
Is that guy a troll?

Smoothie's only trollish sometimes but he definitely has a thing for trolling this thread, the block reward for the first few hours was 500 coins and anyone mining from the start got a lot of coins. The trolls are calling that an "instamine" and claiming Evan made a huge amount of coins from it and smoothie's got behind it for whatever reason but I'd suggest flicking through some of the early pages and having a look for yourself. Releases are chaos and this one was no different, personally I'd be more inclined to think established miners taking advantage of the low difficulty when alts are released did far better out of it.

I'm not really interested in mining anyway, but the issue was that there were too much coins distributed in the beginning?
Was it a big amount? I see on coinmarket cap that currently there are about 5.9 million DASH in existence. I also read somewhere that there would be 22 coins eventually. Are these numbers correct?
so DASH started in january 2014 according to the blockchain (I checked block 1 here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm)

So it's (12+9) = 21 months old, that's about 5.9/21 = 0.28 million coins per month.
As long as the number of coins in the first hours isn't more than 0.28 million or so, i'm not really worried. That would be the equavalent of "one fake additional month"... Is there a chart somewhere on the history of the number of dash in circulation?

[TanteStefana2]

Are IP addresses logged? Maybe users of the site could save what they pay on VPNs and donate that to the site.

I can see that it seems to be users of the site that are in favour of the budget proposal. I don't doubt that the site provides a more convenient way of voting regularly than any other current method, but I don't think it warrants recurring payments, albeit only 6 months, as in 2 months there could be a better solution. I don't think a centralised solution should become the defacto standard. Nothing was promised to Dashwhale before embarking on the project, was the initial intention always to offer for free at first and then go after funding?

Like I've said before, I'm not a user of the site, yet, and when I do make an account (after I figure out keypass, LOL) It's very doubtful that I'll put my masternode information on the site, as I only have 2.  I do like the idea of a central place where proposals are discussed and hashed out.

Everyone seems to think a central place to do something is bad or wrong.  That's stupid.  Having a central place to discuss projects is efficient and good.  Everyone can be sure to have their point of view or suggestions seen if they put it in a central place for people to see.  Having discussions in 5 different forums where ideas are easily lost is silly.  Evan's plan for the decentralized governance was always to have something like this.  Maybe duplicated on other sites would be great (several sites that "push and pull" information from each other so that if one site goes down, others will be there to continue on.)  But still, the users should get a centralized experience.

So don't become blind to some arbitrary rule "everything in the world must be decentralized" because that's not true or good and is illogical.  It's good for issues involving trust.  For this type of issue, though, it's more important to duplicate for backing up reasons.  Having duplicate sites that work together as a single unit would be super.  We could fund DashWhale to go one step farther to create a way for anyone to voluntarily host a copy of the site, or at least the forum portion, so that discussions function centrally, but are backed up globally.

[qwizzie]

...
What is this about? I didn't read the whole topic on dashtalk yet...
Is that guy a troll?

Smoothie's only trollish sometimes but he definitely has a thing for trolling this thread, the block reward for the first few hours was 500 coins and anyone mining from the start got a lot of coins. The trolls are calling that an "instamine" and claiming Evan made a huge amount of coins from it and smoothie's got behind it for whatever reason but I'd suggest flicking through some of the early pages and having a look for yourself. Releases are chaos and this one was no different, personally I'd be more inclined to think established miners taking advantage of the low difficulty when alts are released did far better out of it.

I'm not really interested in mining anyway, but the issue was that there were too much coins distributed in the beginning?
Was it a big amount? I see on coinmarket cap that currently there are about 5.9 million DASH in existence. I also read somewhere that there would be 22 coins eventually. Are these numbers correct?
so DASH started in january 2014 according to the blockchain (I checked block 1 here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm)

So it's (12+9) = 21 months old, that's about 5.9/21 = 0.28 million coins per month.
As long as the number of coins in the first hours isn't more than 0.28 million or so, i'm not really worried. That would be the equavalent of "one fake additional month"... Is there a chart somewhere on the history of the number of dash in circulation?

https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

i think there will be between 18 and 22 million in total existence .. once fully mined.   

[UdjinM6]

...
What is this about? I didn't read the whole topic on dashtalk yet...
Is that guy a troll?

Smoothie's only trollish sometimes but he definitely has a thing for trolling this thread, the block reward for the first few hours was 500 coins and anyone mining from the start got a lot of coins. The trolls are calling that an "instamine" and claiming Evan made a huge amount of coins from it and smoothie's got behind it for whatever reason but I'd suggest flicking through some of the early pages and having a look for yourself. Releases are chaos and this one was no different, personally I'd be more inclined to think established miners taking advantage of the low difficulty when alts are released did far better out of it.

I'm not really interested in mining anyway, but the issue was that there were too much coins distributed in the beginning?
Was it a big amount? I see on coinmarket cap that currently there are about 5.9 million DASH in existence. I also read somewhere that there would be 22 coins eventually. Are these numbers correct?
so DASH started in january 2014 according to the blockchain (I checked block 1 here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?000007d91d1254d60e2dd1ae580383070a4ddffa4c64c2eeb4a2f9ecc0414343.htm)

So it's (12+9) = 21 months old, that's about 5.9/21 = 0.28 million coins per month.
As long as the number of coins in the first hours isn't more than 0.28 million or so, i'm not really worried. That would be the equavalent of "one fake additional month"... Is there a chart somewhere on the history of the number of dash in circulation?

Block reward = 5 ~ 25 (depends on difficulty), ~7.1% reduction every year (-1/14 every 210240 blocks)
22 million is estimated for block reward slightly higher than minimum, so it could be lower if you estimate based on minimum reward https://dash.org.ru/pages/stats.php or higher if block reward is closer to higher bound (i.e. diff is very low)
current avg block reward http://178.254.18.153/~pub/Darkcoin/masternode_payments_stats.html

[TanteStefana2]

Hi

I'm new here, this is my first post!

I was interested in cryptocurrencies, but when I looked into it back in 2012, I came across some article that explained it on a semi-technical level.
I realized that bitcoin was too transparent. I didn't want others to see my transactions, so I dismissed it. I saw in 2013 on the news that if I got in, I could have made a lot of money. But I figured I was a bit late to the party so I still didn't invest.

When I met an old friend a few weeks ago, he told me he did buy BTC in 2012. Then I told him about my concerns (the fact that BTC isn't private). Then he told me maybe I would like DASH. So I checked the dash technology and I liked what I saw. Darksend can make my transactions private!
There was more: InstantX has very fast transactions, compared to bitcoin.

I now bought 20 DASH. I want to start small, but maybe I'll buy a full masternode in the future. I was just checking this thread and saw something about evolution in another topic:

May I ask if there is already more information about this?

I specifically want to know when will it go live?
Also, I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second.
My last question for now is that I don't really understand how InstantX works. I mean... with bitcoin you have your transactions included in a block. I liked that part of the bitcoin technology when I checked it in 2012. Once a ransaction is included, it is considered "safe". How does InstantX work?

Anyway, I hope to get in early now, because I feel that DASH could maybe become big, certainly if "Evolution" becomes the new reality.

I just want to say that Evolution is probably not going to be explained in detail for quite some time.  It might even start out closed sourced just like DarkSend did.  The reason I'm saying this is because of 2 things Evan said.  He said he doesn't want to lose first mover's advantage and he also said he want's to reveal everything slowly (presumably because it's a large chunk of information, and he want's to control how people learn/see the plan)

I think honestly, publicizing a white paper wouldn't make things so confusing, even if it's super challenging to understand.  People around here are massively intelligent and there are several that would understand and explain to the public.  So personally, I think it's all about keeping the ideas from being stolen.  And I'm all for that.

So what does this mean for the rest of us?  Well, 1st, it means we have to trust the technology is real.  Since Evan has come through so many times, I have no problem with that.  I also don't see this as being impossible to achieve, so again, no problem with trusting the core team.  I also think we'll have a working version before we have open code, just like with DarkSend.

But it also means, our desire to know isn't going to be satiated any time soon.  This is killing me, but I'm working on coming to terms with it.  

Please note, the above is my opinion, and nothing has been told to me directly.  I'm just taking the clues given and coming to my own conclusions.

[TanteStefana2]

...I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second...

My thinking goes this far.  Instant Transactions will have the input funds locked by a set of 10 masternodes chosen deterministically.  There are 3,500 masternodes.  Therefore 350 (3500/10) Instant Transactions (minus overhead) can be locked simultaneously.  If this process can happen a couple of times every second, then 500-1500 is the answer.

If there are any devs watching that want to correct me, please do. 

And the reason why it's secure against double spending is that those masternodes rule.  You can't get past their locks.  You can't get into a block if those funds are locked via another route.  The block would be rejected by the network.

[TanteStefana2]

https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-team-at-bitcoin-wednesday-amsterdam-presentation.6287/page-11#post-70235

fible1 said: ↑


Pablo.
I know why the community is worried about this question being answered. A lot of us have a lot invested in this thing. We all have a lot to loose. Im just trying to get you all to think about this in a different way. I dont want to push evan under a bus but i dont think the current approach of staying silent will help us at all? We need to speak about this as a community like were doing and figure out a way to get past this thing. Sweeping in under the rug is not the answer. there is a better way !

the sky is falling !

What is this about? I didn't read the whole topic on dashtalk yet...
Is that guy a troll?

No, he's not a troll.  In this case we've had a good discussion. In the end, I think he changed his mind.  He was worried about the "instamine" issue.  There are still two camps on that.  To talk about it as long as people want to hear, and to just forget about it as it's irrelevant to the future.  Either is valid.  IMO, we should answer anyone's questions, but if it's obviously a person who wants to derail the conversation, ignore them.

[tungfa]

A little Doctors advice !


 

[qwizzie]

A little Doctors advice !


 

thanks Doc 

[TanteStefana2]

Add width=x to the image tag to shrink images. Above I used width=200

I'm replying to you TanteStefana but I made a mess of the quoting so I'm going to leave it like this.

Thank you!

[tungfa]

A little Doctors advice !
 

thanks Doc 

Anytime ,
you can call me Dr Feelgood from now on
 

[TanteStefana2]

Funny Tungfa, you have/find some of the best pictures, LOL

Cryptonewb, if two instantX transactions are sent, and they go to two different masternodes, the first one that clears wins.  If a block is found that includes the wrong one (because somehow it didn't get all the information), it is rejected.  Maybe that's why we'll be forcing IX transactions to go to the second block now?  So that rejects will be minimized?

Also, for reading up on the instamine, please go to these two links:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/
and
http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118