[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Tungi17]

Why Dash ‘s New Username Demo Video is game changing

https://youtu.be/7QGVWSlGcpw

[qwizzie]

Kraken introduces off-chain staking with BTC, USD and EURO

Off-chain staking is currently available for Bitcoin (XBT), Euro (EUR), and US Dollar (USD) balances in your Kraken account.
If we add new assets, we will update the available asset list here.

Read more here : https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360044886311-Overview-of-Off-Chain-Staking-on-Kraken



Still no information about Cosmos and Dash on-chain staking actually getting implemented on Kraken.
I created a topic on Kraken's Reddit page, hoping to get some kind of response from Kraken --> https://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/hf13z0/dash_staking_implementation/


Meanwhile Ledger just implemented Cosmos (ATOM) staking on its latest Ledger Live version. Hopefully Dash staking on Ledger will be next



I created a topic on Ledger's Reddit page to ask them if they have any plans to introduce Dash staking on Ledger Live -> https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/heic2m/ledger_staking/

[dafdaf]

The cost of the maintaining the emission schedule is still 100% borne by miners, regardless of what reward they receive. That should have formed the starting point for any "economic analysis" because it's the only quantitively known factor in Dash's economics. If it costs them $100k to mine X days of Dash's emission curve, they still have to dump $100k of Dash on markets to pay for it. (Before MN's even sell 1 single Duff)

Hey Tok, nice to see you're still round here. We are many to miss your provoking thoughts.

Xkcd has read your post above, and here are his interesting remarks posted on one of the too numerous Discords:

Well I read Tok's post on the ANN thread and the guy is a good magician tricking you into somehow thinking the more the miner wastes on Electricity to mint a block the more valuable those coins will be.  He is wrong with that.  The miners serve to secure the chain and once it is secured sufficiently any more mining does not add value to the chain, but instead wastes money, we are effectively paying for all those gigawatts of electricity! :weary:
Tok likes to play dumb and miss the point that if we juice up the MN ROI more money will flow into making new MNs thus reducing the ROI and soaking up the DASH in the circulating supply as Ryan calls it, this has in the past been shown to raise price and we expect it will do so again, at least in the short term.

We can easily discount Tok's hypothesis with a simple mental masturbation.  Suppose GOLD miner A is able to dig up the yellow metal for $600/Oz, but says Oh Fuck it!  I want to be able to sell it for higher prices (currently $1750) so he says I will waste money and raise my costs to $800/Oz.  Will he be more profitable?  Will the gold price rise?
Tok's line of thinking is the tail wags the dog, however, anyone familiar with the animal would observe the dog wags his tail.  Tok believes price chases hash rate, but hash rate chances price.  We see that on the Bitcoin chain where if there is significant movement in price, the hashrate moves to adjust, in general.
Tok fails to notice though that the Bitcoin hashrate is at a ATH, yet there is a bearish divergence with BTC price, which is one half the ATH.
If Tok were right, then it stands to reason that the BTC price must already be over $100k due to miner hash rate, but that is not the case, so he must be wrong.

[Tungi17]

Liquid Global, a top 5 ranked exchange has integrated Dash InstantSend to provide users with near instant deposit, withdraw, trade, and arbitrage opportunities. To celebrate partnership a “Deposit to Win #DASH!” contest has been launched!

https://newsroom.dash.org/100644-liquid-and-dash-partner-on-enhanced-user-experience



+
Dash Voting Cycle is coming up - 2 days to go - Please vote !

https://www.dashcentral.org/budget
https://app.dashnexus.org/proposals/active

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

In Depth Discussions with Tao Of Satoshi, Host of Cash Alternative TV

It was a pleasure to be the subject of an interview video instead of the interviewer. In this video, I talk about my background in cryptocurrency, educate about the many interesting features of Dash, and take aim at crypto tribalism. Many thanks to Jacques Whales of Discussions[dot]app for having me on the show!



Thanks for watching!

[toknormal]

This analogy is flawed:

Suppose GOLD miner A is able to dig up the yellow metal for $600/Oz, but says Oh Fuck it!  I want to be able to sell it for higher prices (currently $1750) so he says I will waste money and raise my costs to $800/Oz

You don't reduce mining costs (or even hashrate) by reducing miner reward IMO, you increase them because the miner still has to bear the cost of mining all of the supply.

All. Of. It.

Secondly, if they want to sell for a high price, the miner has to control as much of the supply as possible. In that context they're in competition with two distinct groups:

 • other miners in competitive mining (fine !)
 • existing hodlers operating to different economic constraints since they may have a distinct cost base that makes them more competitive ( <-can afford to sell into markets at a profit when the miner can't) (not fine !)

To illustrate the second of those two points, consider why bear markets happen: Profit taking ! (Or conversely, loss minimisation). The profit taking continues until margins above cost-base are exhausted to the extent that an equilibrium is reached between demand and supply. If anyone has trouble understanding that principle, the clue's in the name

This can occur at the end of a micro 2-minute rally, a mini 4-hour one or a macro 4 year one. It goes on constantly whenever there's been a sharp price increase.

So what's gonna happen if you design your coin economics so that 60% of your hodlers are at 100% margin over cost all day long, regardless of price ?

....continuous profit taking. You're basically building the economics of a long term bear market right into the dynamics of the coin production and distribution.

A phenomenon that ends up looking something like this in terms of performance against coins with a high (100% ) mining reward ratio...



The effect is so powerful, it can't even be mitigated by first mover advantage...



My view therefore is, if we're going to have a review of protocol economics in the name of improving "store of value", how about edging it towards one with a successful track record rather than a disastrous one ?

[qwizzie]

Dash number of active masternodes just increased from around 4600 to 4741, after a long time of moving sideways.


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png

Could this mean masternodes capitulation has finished and miners capitulation is still in progress after our annual blockreward reduction took place ? Stay tuned..



Source : https://terminal.bytetree.com/dash

An MRI above 100% means miners are selling more than they mine and running down inventory. Conversely an MRI below 100% means the miners are hoarding

Source : https://bytetree.com/insights/2020/02/bytetree-indicator/

Note : i suspect the MRI in Dash case is the MRI of miners and masternodes combined. Dash needs to get out of the red figures by rewarding hoarding behavior, in order to lower the sell pressure.
You can check on specific intervals how the Net Inventory and the MRI is progressing, to get an indication on the sell pressure. I focus mostly on the 1 Week / 5 Weeks interval.

[Tungi17]

DASH Added to Customizable Locked Savings on Binance

https://twitter.com/binance/status/1275726367087382531?s=21

[qwizzie]

Damn, 7.12% Annualized Returns is a pretty good deal for Binance users. Beats Dash Masternodes Annualized Returns (5.90%).


Source : https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Catching Up With Dash Brazil (w/ Rodrigo Ambrissi)

Please join me in talking with Rod Ambrissi, host of Dash Dinheiro Digital YouTube channel which was briefly taken down by YouTube, and owner of the Dash Brazil proposal. We talk about crypto content hosting, the best things about the Dash ecosystem and what he's been up to since we last spoke. Rod becomes the first 3-time guest on CATV.



Thanks for watching!

[qwizzie]

Altcoins Season in progress ? Please give your opinion...


Source : tradingview.com

Green shows Altcoins marketcap dominance strengthening
Red (indirectly) shows Bitcoin marketcap dominance strengthening

Basically this is a chart that excludes Bitcoin marketcap dominance, it only shows Altcoins marketcap dominance / Altcoins seasons.
 

[dafdaf]

This analogy is flawed

XKCD again:

I think it is a little unfair to compare DASH/BTC because the emission rate is different now, BTC is emitting far fewer coins for most (all?) of DASH's life.  Also, IMO a big price support for BTC is the fact the 1 million Satoshi coins are not in play, whereas in DASH almost all the coins are in play, we have much less as a percentage 'lost coins'.  This is important, because the early coins have a price tag of zero and if they were in play they would most definitely be sold and that would bring the price of Bitcoin down.

I appreciate Tok's passionate plea, but his accounting is not ultimately what I see as impacting the price, price is (OK we :OffTopic: now) is determined by people, that's us ! and we don't much care about where those coins came from, we care about two things, what we paid for them and what we want to sell them for (ie current price).

and so it is game of confidence, or musical chairs, who gets left out and who makes out like a bandit, OTOH, Ultradar, and several others.

For price to grow, the number of people involved in price disc:hole:very has to grow, the interest in the coin has to grow and that means, adoption and BUIDL.  Confidence will grow, more people will take the risk of buying the asset and price will rise, which will create a feedback loop and bring in even more people and could result in a bull market.  Ain't nothin' to do where the coins came from!

To answer dashAF and Tok on the irony of the POS Shitcoins, sure they are valueless because they never did anything worthwhile either.  If a good POS coin existed, then it would have some value.  I wonder if Tok thinks ETH will goto zero once it moves to POS, I don't, nor does anyone else here, so hint.  It won't!

[toknormal]

I appreciate Tok's passionate plea, but his accounting is not ultimately what I see as impacting the price...it is game of confidence, or musical chairs...

I think I invested in an economic model, not a confidence trick or kids tea party

Lets ditch the anecdotal commentaries & sociological guesswork for a moment and revisit the phrase..."we don't need all this hashrate" as I think that's probably what I have most problem with.

First of all, IMO, it is not for us to decide if "we" need it or not. "We" (whoever that is) did not create the high hashrate to secure the network. It can be done with lines of code (and has been). High hashrates exist because of competition for the new supply. The market decides what level of hashrate is commensurate with the scarcity of the supply according to how highly it values the coin.

There's no economic redundancy to it in that respect anymore that there is to mining diamonds. So while that hashrate may be excess to requirements in terms of securing the network from hacking, it's not available for trimming in an economic sense without consequences for the price because you're taking diamonds that were below ground and difficult to access, moving them above ground and giving them away from free, thereby undermining the price of the genuine ones being carried up by the miner.

Now, you may say...ah, but the above ground diamonds are difficult to access as well because you need to buy a masternode to get them.

True, but missing one crucial point: Dash is non-fungible as far as masternode hodlers are concerned. They do not value the coins in their revenue stream the same way as they value those in their threshold capital base (the 1000 Dash). The latter are probably held onto for dear life while the former are dumped on the market without a second thought cos......there's another couple arriving next week that don't cost me anything.



The net effect is that the "above ground" free coins gradually grind down the level of the "access bar" to masternode ownership till it's neglegable in dollar terms and this is totally consistent with the economic theory of perfect competition where market acts to eliminate so called "supernormal profits". The market does this by "de-ranking" Dash and bleeding its market share to other assets.

So sure - go ahead and try to create a nice, "lean hashrate", instant payment system with labelled addresses. All you'll have made is a copy of every electronic payment network since AMEX. Who cares about the coin value if all people want is fast, cheap payments with a label attached ?



If, however, we also want Dash to serve as a scarce, investible store of value, then way to stop and then reverse the "rot" IMO is to:

1. restore mining reward to a healthy level which will reduce the proportion of new coins being held at excessively high margins over cost

2. as the coin value recovers, masternode revenue will recover in dollar terms so there will be no net-loss of revenue for MN's in the medium term

3. as Dash platform grows in service provision capacity, more resource can be demanded of masternodes which will add value to the network and further offset the asymmetry in margin between miners and masternodes, thereby relieving the pressure gradient that's driving coins to the market

[qwizzie]

So strange, i am a masternode owner and i am holding unto both my collateral and my masternode payments for dear life for some time now.
(i have done that in a previous bear market as well). The best way to make a good profit if you are not a day trader but a masternode owner,
is to save up your masternode payments during bear markets and convert the masternode payments during bull markets. Masternode owners
can even use staking options on exchanges to get additional value for their saved up masternode payments now.

Which  just proves that something is wrong with above stated theory that masternode payments get 'dumped on the market without a second thought'
I am actually putting a lot of thought into my whole masternode payments handling strategy, as i am sure other masternode owners are doing too.

Only those masternode owners without good planning and living totally off their masternode payments, i could see converting masternode payments to FIAT right away.  
 

[toknormal]

So strange, i am a masternode owner and i am holding unto both my collateral and my masternode payments for dear life.
That just proves that something is wrong with above stated theory that masternode payments get 'dumped on the market without a second thought'

Well it proves you're a Dash fan more than a Dash business at least. Congratulations

[qwizzie]

So strange, i am a masternode owner and i am holding unto both my collateral and my masternode payments for dear life.
That just proves that something is wrong with above stated theory that masternode payments get 'dumped on the market without a second thought'

Well it proves you're a Dash fan more than a Dash business at least. Congratulations

Thank you, tax-wise it is sometimes better not to be a business.

[toknormal]

Thank you, tax-wise it is sometimes better not to be a business.

Unfortunately you're taxed as if you dumped them whether you do for real or not. That's another adverse aspect of increasing MN reward - it exposes far more of the new supply to sell pressure from statutory compliance sources, whereas restoring mining reward would do the reverse.

[qwizzie]

Thank you, tax-wise it is sometimes better not to be a business.

Unfortunately you're taxed as if you dumped them whether you do for real or not. That's another "suicidal" aspect of increasing MN reward - it exposes far more of the new supply to sell pressure from statutory compliance sources, whereas restoring mining reward would do the reverse.

Virtual payment tools (Bitcoin, Dash etc ) are treated here (The Netherlands) the same as stocks and their value are measured in Euro by crypto users at one specific time in the year
(1st of January at 00:00), reported to the tax agency in april and subject to property taxes.
  
Just like there is no need to sell stocks from statutory compliance sources, there is no need here to sell cryptocurrency from statutory compliance sources.
Property in Euro (bankaccount balances) and property in cryptocurrencies are taxed the same, because it is all just Euro's for the tax agency.

Tax-wise there is no difference between MN rewards & mining rewards. The tax agency just wants confirmation that you own cryptocurrency in general and wants you to report
the total value of that cryptocurrency in Euro at one specific point in time.

There is however a big difference tax-wise between having cryptocurrency in personal possession (subject to property tax) and running a professional business (subject to sales and income tax).

[jdmcg]

Thank you, tax-wise it is sometimes better not to be a business.

Unfortunately you're taxed as if you dumped them whether you do for real or not. That's another adverse aspect of increasing MN reward - it exposes far more of the new supply to sell pressure from statutory compliance sources, whereas restoring mining reward would do the reverse.

In U.S. that's true but not in a lot of other countries where you are only taxed when selling.

Regarding DASH being ground down in value because of all the free coins masternodes get, how do you explain LTC, 100% POW, which has a similar (if not more bearish) price chart as DASH?

[toknormal]

Regarding DASH being ground down in value because of all the free coins masternodes get, how do you explain LTC, 100% POW, which has a similar (if not more bearish) price chart as DASH?

Because the problem manifests itself primarily in market share (relative marketcap) rather than absolute marketcap. It's seen in ranking.

To illustrate, the "theory" is that the market acts to push mining margins and masternode margins towards equilibrium. (Competition theory that strips "flab" from excess margins in uncompetitive offerings). In this case we're talking about the competiveness of the primary supply of Dash vs the primary supply of competitors. i.e. how much "coin" does an investor get for their buck when buying from a Dash miner vs a Litecoin or bitcoin miner.

To analyse this illustratively, lets fix a few variables across 3 coins (BTC, LTC & Dash) so we can observe only the ones who's behaviour we're assessing. We observe what happens to a week's mining supply.

Lets assume: (Example 1)

 • all circulating supplies are equal and start off at 1000 coins
 • all 3 coin prices/market caps are equal
 • all block rewards are equal
 • all chains generate a primary (mined) supply of 1000 coins over a week
 • all mined supply goes to market
 • coin price is $1 for all
 • mining is at break-even for all
 • market demand liquidity is $3000 per week invested evenly across all 3 coins

Now, with all this stuff fixed, we vary ONLY the protocol split reward between miners and masternodes. We keep BTC and LTC the same and vary Dash as follows:

BTC 100%
LTC 100%
Dash 50% / 50% (Miners/Masternodes)

So lets tot up what the market got for its "buck" after this week's supply is sold and all 3 circulating supplies consist of 2000 coins each.

1. It got all 1000 new Bitcoins (=50% of the closing supply)
2. It got all 1000 new Litecoin (=50% of the closing supply)
3. It only got 500 new Dash (=25% of the closing supply)

So Dash was less competitive in the market - it could only deliver half the supply that its competitors did for the same investment. The reason is that Dash requires to cover a very expensive overhead that the other two do not (MN revenues). ERGO: competition theory suggests that Dash loses market share to the other two. (Or suffers a devaluation to half their price).

Now, this is all other things being equal which of course they are not. But this is how analytics works anyway - you fix some stuff to weed out adverse harmonics in the mechanics of other stuff. But even when you "unfreeze" everything else, that harmonic is still there eating away at the market share.

If you drive your car with the brakes on it will slow down, all other things being equal. You can stick a bigger engine in it and it will go faster, even with the brakes on, but the braking effect is still there. It would be better not to have it. That's what we have with this low mining reward in Dash IMO - a braking effect with regard to market share. All of the technological innovations, community actions and first mover advantages are having to swim against the tide of covering the massive cost of generating coins which arrive pre-loaded with a profit margin (zero cost base) for a select few holders. Our competitors don't have this overhead to deal with and so are now ranked way above us despite being almost void of innovation or practical use cases.

I'm not saying the "pre-primed-with-profit" coins are bad. They are an important part of the Dash model and incentivise the high performance network. But what I am saying is that they form WAY too high a proportion of the primary supply. We need to mitigate that overhead, get competitive again in terms of primary supply delivery and then, having levelled that particular playing field, add the service layer to multiply the value beyond competing offerings. IMO that will restore whatever was lost to MN revenue in dollar terms and allow the network to resume long term marketcap growth.