[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tungfa]

This is a very good read regarding
"Decentralized Autonomous Society"

and it shows you very well the potential for the MN Network ...>>>

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/we-talk-share-create-exchange-resolve-decentralized-autonomous-society

 

[doubleredrolex]

Its fucking genius

It's not fucking genius. It's potential f*cking suicide if not thought through in great detail.

Money and utility are two mutually exclusive services. You can't just stumble into a policy like this without addressing that fundamental dichotomy and work out exactly how your going to resolve it.

If demand for masternodes goes through the roof because of ROI then the coin may go out of circulation, or at least will derive all its value from a single revenue stream as opposed to a diverse micro economy. Then, along comes competition - not for the cryptocurrency but for the Dark TOR service and bang goes your revenue stream and along with it your entire cryptocurency.

On the other hand, the service aspect of the coin could act as a bootstrap mechanism in giving real value to the currency and propelling it into wider adoption and circulation....IF the fundamental dichotomy above (between monetary value and utility value) is recognised and highly controlled.

For my own part, I'm very clear. I'm investing in a currency, not an internet service provider of which there are thousands. Nor am I investing in a f*cking business.

The more utility value a currency has, the less monetary value it can have. Nothing can get round that fundamental fact and people need to have it in big neon lights in front of their noses before getting dollar signs in their eyes.

Interesting info for sure. Definitely something to take into consideration. I think the internet access is more to allow darkcoin users to interact. After all how can you anonymously send DRK across the country without being able to first give the other person your wallet address? If you just emailed your wallet address then you've totally blown any chance of being anonymous. Access to an anonymous internet allows that communication.

[coins101]

13,000 nodes, running 2m users, paying $1/day (who wouldn't pay that for anonymity). That gets you something like $60k/year per Master Node in Revenue.

We currently have around 4.5m coins, at 75% - I think that works out at 3,400 nodes. With the same revenue metrics, you would be looking at $215k per Master Node per year. Not sure on costs to run, but it can't be anywhere near that, lol..... $ signs

Hang on.

This is all going a bit gaga. We're potential headed into load of trouble here.

DRK was a currency, not a service. Its low coin supply was attractive and consistent with its role as a currency / store of value.

A currency should have NO utility value to be of any worth as a monetary medium. That's what makes crypto attractive. As soon as it starts to have utility value it goes out of circulation and becomes a utility which then exposes it to competition from other utilities.

So if we're now talking about a service, we're into a whole new ballgame. Different rules apply.

For a start, the limited coin supply is going to be a hindrance not a help. 1000 nodes is nothing in terms of a bandwidth infrastructure. You need 100's of thousands or millions because we're not just talking coin 'washing' we're talking high bandwith transport (I imagine).

Secondly, with it being a service, not a currency, there's nothing to stop other players from competing. Adoption isn't an objective anymore, revenue is. My own opinion is that a Darkcoin TOR network will never even get near the kind of income your talking about - there are so many players in this market who a way ahead in this technology. We're talking about a whole new industry sector. This is dreamland stuff.

Nobody gets to make that kind of money in a technology market and keep market share - it just doesn't happen, so lets get our feet back on the ground and establish exactly what this project is about.

This is a very big deal and must be thought through on all front before people start getting dollar signs in their eyes.

I don't think you read my synopsis.

DRK is the currency. Agreed. You buy DRK with fiat in order to pay to use Web 3.0

edit - think about that for a second.....people who want to use DRKTor, buy DRK to access it. Possibly new fiat entering crypto. DRK becomes partly backed by something - fiat, and demand for a service.

Web 3.0 is the Master Nodes.

They are not the same thing.  The Master Nodes are an infrastructure service that has to be paid for. Bandwidth is not for the currency to sort out. That's an issue over, err, bandwidth. Its not linked to mining. Its not linked to block chain bloat. Its hardware and routing speeds. If you pay enough, you get the bandwidth.

Whose to say that people won't pay for the service? Ok, $0.50 per day. Around 2,200 nodes. That still revenue of $160k / node per year. That still values each node at $1m - $1.6m on PE of 6-10. Twitter and Facebook are PE of over 30.

That still gets you demand to purchase 1,000 DRK to set-up Master Nodes. With a race on to get set-up, you are still talking about the demand on the currency pushing prices up to $1bn - $3bn.

Now.

Lets add other services..........

BTC <> DRK exchanges, with no registrations for small quantities (edit - there are regulatory issues here. you can transact less than $1,000 in unlinked transactions on a risked based basis - but it does pose some issues depending on where nodes are hosted)

BTC <> any currency exchanges

DarkMarkets giving Master Nodes 2-4% on sales.

xyz services.

There is no reason why added services on top of DRKTor can't push the value of the currency into $billions.

I like these challenges. Keep it up. But, you are in my back yard now.

[othe]

I honestly don't think that the number of people using this service (if it happens) will be as great as people are thinking.  I'm sure there will be some but if there are ever more than 1000 concurrent users i'd be very suprised.

Its all about the marketing - Tor is a massive pain to use, need a totally new browser, is slow, times-out.....once it catches on about DarkTor, people will leave Tor in droves for a premium service.

Especially when you can pay with Darkcoin and your entry and exit is still totally anonymous.

Its fucking genius

Im excited for things to come. It IS absolutely genius. who wouldn't pay 50 cents or so for 24 hours access. Journalists will use it for sure everyday. Stock brokers.. anyone who doesn't want their stuff being seen. Absolutely brilliant.

Everyone who is sane.

Privacy should be a right of everyone especially people in poor and oppressed regions, its just sick what you guys make of it.

TOR is only reasonable safe because of its sheer amount of users; tell me one sane reason why someone who really needs the security should pay for a worse alternative? Speed doesn't matter for someone in Syria who wants to communicate with his family abroad or wants to send files to wikileaks etc.
Not to mention that tor is only safe within the tor-network itself, using exitnodes isnt really clever...
It has a damn good reason why I2P disabled all bridges to the WWW for security.

[coins101]

For my own part, I'm very clear. I'm investing in a currency, not an internet service provider of which there are thousands. Nor am I investing in a f*cking business.

That's the genius part. You don't need to set up a Master Node.

You have your currency in your wallet. No need to do anything other than trade with it or spend it.

[stealth923]

Its fucking genius

It's not fucking genius. It's potential f*cking suicide if not thought through in great detail.

Money and utility are two mutually exclusive services. You can't just stumble into a policy like this without addressing that fundamental dichotomy and work out exactly how your going to resolve it.

If demand for masternodes goes through the roof because of ROI then the coin may go out of circulation, or at least will derive all its value from a single revenue stream as opposed to a diverse micro economy. Then, along comes competition - not for the cryptocurrency but for the Dark TOR service and bang goes your revenue stream and along with it your entire cryptocurency.

On the other hand, the service aspect of the coin could act as a bootstrap mechanism in giving real value to the currency and propelling it into wider adoption and circulation....IF the fundamental dichotomy above (between monetary value and utility value) is recognised and highly controlled.

For my own part, I'm very clear. I'm investing in a currency, not an internet service provider of which there are thousands. Nor am I investing in a f*cking business.

The more utility value a currency has, the less monetary value it can have. Nothing can get round that fundamental fact and people need to have it in big neon lights in front of their noses before getting dollar signs in their eyes.

DarkTor is a service - you can chose to use it or you can chose not to. Darkcoin is STILL is a currency and still will be after DarkTor is running. You act like it can only be one or the other rather than they compliment each other. It will still be a currency because you can use it for transactions. The entire system is a closed loop and thats what you are missing.

As Tante said in previous post if the value goes up so much the price for DarkTor shifts back a few decimal places. If the demand goes through the roof then so does the price and so be it, its a free market it will sort itself out. SO yes it is fucking genius as no other coin has the capability or infrastructure ALREADY setup to support this model. We have over 600 masternodes and I see this growing very rapidly now.

[tungfa]

Total Masternodes: 729 = 622 actives + 107 inactives
 

[splawik21]

Will they pay $1 a day? I won't. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/buy-vpn/

Thats a centralised service....This is DarkTor you moron - a decentralised anonymous internet service. Evan said its 50 cents, which millions would pay for.
Cant believe you are still trolling here

***Ignore for good***

And for me too +1 ignore.
Just can't believe how ppl can change from LOL supporter to troller.
Sorry Ozzie but from hero to zero. Bye

[slapper]

This is why I didn't buy before the upswing today. This community has been worn down by the FUD trolls, the concern trolls and the trader trolls. It is too damn easy to manipulate most of the holders with just simple concern trolling.

My gut says there will be more oppurtunity to buy in the coming days when the trader trolls/internal cancer/community scum will get the price they want to buy it at. And the retard morons will welcome them when they are back in. No need to panic buy gentlemen.

[tungfa]

***Ignore for good***

And for me too +1 ignore.
Just can't believe how ppl can change from LOL supporter to troller.
Sorry Ozzie but from hero to zero. Bye

he is on my ignore list since quite a while ....>>

[Jesse Livermore]

Rocketship if we get back above .0055.
JL

Rocket.ship.
The SS DRK has liftoff.

"W" bottom (http://thepatternsite.com/bigw.html) on every timeframe 2 hours and below. Daily timeframe needs a break above .01 with higher volume than what we say yesterday to confirm that we're now in an uptrend.
Everything I see points to the lower-.008 region as next target because there's little to no resistance here immediately above us, this is all momentum movements.
Support at .005; don't break that or .0045 because that would suck.

Overall, this is all fine and dandy, but DRK needs to break .01 to really make this thing look peachy again.
JL

Mid-Upper-.008 hit; wow. Your move now, DRK.
I'm taking some off the table though. If it breaks .01 I may regret that. Overall though this kind of rate of increase ain't sustainable much longer.

Back long 10% more DRK than 30 mins before.  I'll take .008's again.  

[blade87]

Well that was nice profit. I'm out for a little bit myself, and will come back in if I see a confirmed reversal in the entire market (depends on what BTC and LTC end up doing really). Everything was so massively oversold it's not surprising to see so much green today. Cost averaging worked out for me but damn was it not easy sitting through all of that.

[coins101]

Rocketship if we get back above .0055.
JL

Rocket.ship.
The SS DRK has liftoff.

"W" bottom (http://thepatternsite.com/bigw.html) on every timeframe 2 hours and below. Daily timeframe needs a break above .01 with higher volume than what we say yesterday to confirm that we're now in an uptrend.
Everything I see points to the lower-.008 region as next target because there's little to no resistance here immediately above us, this is all momentum movements.
Support at .005; don't break that or .0045 because that would suck.

Overall, this is all fine and dandy, but DRK needs to break .01 to really make this thing look peachy again.
JL

Mid-Upper-.008 hit; wow. Your move now, DRK.
I'm taking some off the table though. If it breaks .01 I may regret that. Overall though this kind of rate of increase ain't sustainable much longer.

Back long 10% more DRK than 30 mins before.  I'll take .008's again.  

talking and negotiating with yourself.

First sign of madness.

Keep it up.

+101  

[toknormal]

Web 3.0 is the Master Nodes.

They are not the same thing.  The Master Nodes are an infrastructure service that has to be paid for. Bandwidth is not for the currency to sort out. That's an issue over, err, bandwidth. Its not linked to mining. Its not linked to block chain bloat. Its hardware and routing speeds. If you pay enough, you get the bandwidth.

I think I'd be less worried about this if I was convinced that it wouldn't corrupt Evan's original equilibrium principle between masternode supply and demand so that the majority of the coin supply was kept in circulation.

That's partly what I meant by "highly controlled" in my little rant above.

Right now, this works because the PE ratio of a masternode is calculated (and fixed) purely in terms of DRK (at 20% of the mined supply). What that means in fiat depends on the value of DRK's role as a currency.

On the other hand, with the new service model, the PE ratio will be calculated in terms of FIAT and will have a fixed revenue in fiat (in $ per hour of service). This turns the whole thing on its head because 1 Darkcoin now becomes no more than a share unit in a fiat revenue model. The price equilibrium will now revolve around the fiat ROI on a masternode and all DRKs will go out of circulation at that price point.

That's where I see the huge banana skin in this whole idea.

[TsuyokuNaritai]

The more utility value a currency has, the less monetary value it can have. Nothing can get round that fundamental fact and people need to have it in big neon lights in front of their noses

This is bonkers. Do you really think gold has less value because it has real-world uses? Do you believe it would go down in price if some vastly worthwhile new use was found for it making lots of people want to use it beyond the people who already wanted it for it's other uses and value?

[yetiripper]

Well that was nice profit. I'm out for a little bit myself, and will come back in if I see a confirmed reversal in the entire market (depends on what BTC and LTC end up doing really). Everything was so massively oversold it's not surprising to see so much green today. Cost averaging worked out for me but damn was it not easy sitting through all of that.

+1

DRK and LTC made me a killing today.   Holding on to my btc for now.

[TanteStefana2]

The most important thing Toknormal is saying, in my view, is that DarkTor will be used by every other clone coins as well, and in that case we are going from a mind set of value for being the first, which protects your investment to a service provider which requires customers to pay.  Customers will pay for the cheapest service possible and if they work equally, then there will be no reason to use Darkcoin's version.

However, we will still have a little advantage:

A development team who know what they're doing and will fix any issues
You don't have to buy sh*t coins to pay for it, so you can use your good darks instead
we'll get the customers first.

Even so, I think it will be a fantastic service and the backbone to other services that I believe Darkcoin's brand name and trust will make a big difference.

Which is another thing.  If coins pop up, selling cheap masternodes, and lots of them, say they say you can set a masternode up for 100 bucks worth of their coin, well, would you trust those operators?  Couldn't they be buying so many as to make it easy for them to follow their user's movements? 

We've been set up before all this started.  A government, a huge corporation, etc... can't afford (most likely) to buy a majority of the masternodes anymore.  It's too late, but they could start another coin, make it seem legit, and nobody'd know.  Who would you trust?

[stealth923]

The most important thing Toknormal is saying, in my view, is that DarkTor will be used by every other clone coins as well, and in that case we are going from a mind set of value for being the first, which protects your investment to a service provider which requires customers to pay.  Customers will pay for the cheapest service possible and if they work equally, then there will be no reason to use Darkcoin's version.

However, we will still have a little advantage:

A development team who know what they're doing and will fix any issues
You don't have to buy sh*t coins to pay for it, so you can use your good darks instead
we'll get the customers first.

Even so, I think it will be a fantastic service and the backbone to other services that I believe Darkcoin's brand name and trust will make a big difference.

Which is another thing.  If coins pop up, selling cheap masternodes, and lots of them, say they say you can set a masternode up for 100 bucks worth of their coin, well, would you trust those operators?  Couldn't they be buying so many as to make it easy for them to follow their user's movements? 

We've been set up before all this started.  A government, a huge corporation, etc... can't afford (most likely) to buy a majority of the masternodes anymore.  It's too late, but they could start another coin, make it seem legit, and nobody'd know.  Who would you trust?

Spot on Tante - we have first movers advantage, we have the masternode network up and running TODAY. We have the dev....

I wouldnt support any copycat clone coin offering masternodes at $50 each.

[tungfa]

The most important thing Toknormal is saying, in my view, is that DarkTor will be used by every other clone coins as well, and in that case we are going from a mind set of value for being the first, which protects your investment to a service provider which requires customers to pay.  Customers will pay for the cheapest service possible and if they work equally, then there will be no reason to use Darkcoin's version.

However, we will still have a little advantage:

A development team who know what they're doing and will fix any issues
You don't have to buy sh*t coins to pay for it, so you can use your good darks instead
we'll get the customers first.

Even so, I think it will be a fantastic service and the backbone to other services that I believe Darkcoin's brand name and trust will make a big difference.

Which is another thing.  If coins pop up, selling cheap masternodes, and lots of them, say they say you can set a masternode up for 100 bucks worth of their coin, well, would you trust those operators?  Couldn't they be buying so many as to make it easy for them to follow their user's movements? 

We've been set up before all this started.  A government, a huge corporation, etc... can't afford (most likely) to buy a majority of the masternodes anymore.  It's too late, but they could start another coin, make it seem legit, and nobody'd know.  Who would you trust?

Read this Tante (only for you)
really good one and makes me understand the potential of MN's even more and better ....>>
http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/we-talk-share-create-exchange-resolve-decentralized-autonomous-society

[pookielax31]

Hope u all listened to me... i called the first major break out 4 min before when we crossed.... then i told u to set your EMAS to 21 50 100 200.... its the magic parameters just look it told me when to sell perfectly...


Remember I am no longer a troll Im here with all of you SET EMAS TO 21 50 100 200 and have AMAZING PARAMETERS