[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[Drobek]

Would be great to eventually brand and name it something that promotes these aspects of its use.  I love Tor and its capabilities, just hate the word Tor as it has been smeared in the mainstream. But makes sense to call it DarkTor in the present stages as it easily explains what it is.

Could call it DarkMesh or something similar so its not "Tor"

Technically it is similar to Tor so I agree with the name, no need to come up with junknames.

[KryptoFoo]

I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.

China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.

I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it.

Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack  on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services.

It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding.

I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent.

Thought provoking post there RenegadeMan. When I think about terrorists and pedophiles using darkcoin and darktor it makes me very queasy. I haven't figured out a way to rectify this against my belief in the beneficial uses of dark or anonymous services. So I usually think about something else instead 

You mentioned marketing, and I agree on the importance of spinning darkcoin in a positive light.

On a related note: more services are coming online that allow simple analysis of the blockchain and related metadata. Take a look at https://www.blocktrail.com/. There are a few articles on it that mention their intention to

"look at the movement of bitcoin, such as assessing whether some bitcoin addresses have been involved in mining or perhaps gambling"
and it also "has a social component that links wallet addresses to websites that mention them, such as forums like Bitcoin Talk"

Once the average bitcoin user realizes how transparent the blockchain is and how easy it is to link their meta data and even personal identity to their transactions, they will understand the importance of anonymity (I think the average bitcoin user does not see this yet). They will soon realize that their wives can look up their accounts because they once posted a wallet address on their facebook profile and now she can see all the porn and gambling sites where hubby spent money.

Darkcoin can leverage this growing awareness to its advantage by continuously reminding people that darkcoin prevents this type of personal infringement.

[KryptoFoo]

Would be great to eventually brand and name it something that promotes these aspects of its use.  I love Tor and its capabilities, just hate the word Tor as it has been smeared in the mainstream. But makes sense to call it DarkTor in the present stages as it easily explains what it is.

Could call it DarkMesh or something similar so its not "Tor"

+1

Nice name. Trademark it.

[thelonecrouton]

Once the average bitcoin user realizes how transparent the blockchain is and how easy it is to link their meta data and even personal identity to their transactions, they will understand the importance of anonymity (I think the average bitcoin user does not see this yet). They will soon realize that their wives can look up their accounts because they once posted a wallet address on their facebook profile and now she can see all the porn and gambling sites where hubby spent money.

Darkcoin can leverage this growing awareness to its advantage by continuously reminding people that darkcoin prevents this type of personal infringement.

In a world fool of people stupid enough to post all their personal information on Facebook when it's no secret that Facebook sells it to anyone at all and then wonder why for example their medical insurance costs so much ("Aunt Betty died of cancer last week, just like Uncle Tom and Little Judy! ") I think Jo Public is going to be a hard sell.

The target demographic should be businesses and organisations who have a hard need for financial and informational privacy.

That's what I'd like to see - DRK devs concentrate on providing the underlying framework, so that whoever wants to can (for a fee in DRK) have their own private comms network running on top, branded however they like.

Provide the API, let third parties run the services.

[Yzmo]

I vote for vertoe to be an official dev!

Lol, a dev who does not develop? Or do you want me to develop for darkcoin?
Unfortunately, that's only possible if someone pays me for that as I got to feed 2 kids.

Are you developer?
send me a pm please

[Lauda]

Yep I believe that is the plan.

RC5 >>> Open source >>> Press >>> DarkTor

I think IP obfuscation is somewhere between RC5 and open source, or it might be in RC5, not sure.

DarkTor would start after open source so many people can help perfect the code. At least that's what I inferred, could be wrong.

Has Evan or any of the devs revealed what is planned in RC5? I know that there will be overall improvements and fixing, but I'm asking feature wise?
It would be good to know.
The price has bounced back a bit but looks like it won't go above 0.008 just yet.

[sharkbyte093]

Yep I believe that is the plan.

RC5 >>> Open source >>> Press >>> DarkTor

I think IP obfuscation is somewhere between RC5 and open source, or it might be in RC5, not sure.

DarkTor would start after open source so many people can help perfect the code. At least that's what I inferred, could be wrong.

Has Evan or any of the devs revealed what is planned in RC5? I know that there will be overall improvements and fixing, but I'm asking feature wise?
It would be good to know.
The price has bounced back a bit but looks like it won't go above 0.008 just yet.

The main feature from what I read will be UI improvements that make it easier for someone to understand what Darksend is doing. Possibly the new wallet GUI too?

Evan: "The next 3-6 weeks will be spent creating the RC5 client which will have a few minor updates including some known issues resolved along with a basic gui that shows the current status of Darksend."

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/

[Nthelight]

For a while now the term "dark" has been sitting uncomfortably with me.

Just how long do you think DRK is going to last under this scenario?

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm bursting everyone's bubble (and please, let's be intelligent enough with this that I don't get accusations of troll and FUD hurled at me; this is a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed). We are all having a wonderful time talking about how exciting this is and how rosy the future looks. As a technologist that also has high levels of EQ, a heart, a soul and a deep level of care for my fellow man, I can see this turning into a "marketing", "damage control", "PR" disaster.

I've mentioned something similar to this in a previous post (some weeks or month ago), the words "dark coin" or dark tor" are likely to end up with the worst of the worst connotations that will make the phrase "silk road" sound like something Disney might be involved in.

I implore every one to take off their techo propeller hat for a moment and discuss this from a human/societal perspective. We're likely to see DRK go to great heights only to become a concept so offensive and dirty that anyone who's even been remotely involved will be labelled with the same connotations as the criminals who're likely to become DRK's best customers. As for mainstream POS take-up of DRK, even at the most basic level on websites that might currently be offering Bitcoin, I think we could completely forget that possibility if DRK gets associated first and foremost with criminal activity.

I'm very concerned.

Your legitimate concern will not be understood well, is likely to be labeled as FUD and you may even be considered a troll now by people who are unfamiliar with strategic thinking, corporate vision and communication, long term outlook, marketing and promotion, product management, human psychology, public relations and so on. However, I do feel you 100%, marketing-wise, we're likely taking another step backwards (with the suggested DarkTor) or at least we're making it even more difficult to reach mainstream adoption. It's as if this is an unknown world to the core darkcoin supporters? Despite the wonderful technical innovation, the more darkness there will be in the image of the product, the less mainstream this product will end up being in my opinion (please understand the consequences). Most people look at the name/image/package of the product, rather than the superiority of the innerworkings (take Doge as a hint from within the crypto world).

I'm well aware that Evan has explicitly said that several features, including the name are now "locked in". Community members have said "it's already been discussed", but this is not really true (check the first few pages of this thread). I sincerely hope that some day Evan reconsiders the name. Doesn't he want to take his precious out there for everyone to enjoy? I'm starting to have some doubts to be honest. Try convincing non-tech, non-cryptocurrency people about the wonders of Darkcoin. Not easy. Not easy at all. All they hear is "dark", "dark", "dark" and their mind associates it with bad/illegal things. The general public doesn't like the name at all. I've undergone test cases which left me with an upset feeling in my stomach.

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and the short answer is that Darkcoin deserves a much better 'mainstream' name to make promotion a much easier task "outside the crypto/tech world". Imho the name "ecash" could be a potential winner, as often used here in this forum. I like this one a lot and see no issues with it from a marketing perspective, but unfortunately this has been and is still used officially by certain organizations (needs to be investigated more deeply). We could however make it clear to everyone that this is ours to take.

Since this is clearly not the place to have an efficient and grown up intelligent discussion on branding, marketing and PR, I kindly invite you and anyone who shares the same concern to visit the darkcointalk.org thread I opened on 24/05/2014 (https://darkcointalk.org/threads/10-reasons-to-invest-in-darkcoin.814/#post-4804). Share your opinion and solutions to the issue. Let's see if we can work together to at least present alternatives to Evan which are a lot easier to market.

People need to stop thinking about what 'they' like, and consider what the general public likes.

Relevant snippets from the risk factors related to the branding:

#01 - The branding provides, in my humble opinion, challenges towards large market adoption. Merchants are not likely to readily accept darkcoin due to its associations with illicit activities, whether it's justified or not. The least you could say is that it's not mainstream and is effectively somewhat branded to end up in a niche market. When customers and businesses buy or accept darkcoins, they will reconsider or get rid off it when the image of illegality is omnipresent. You bought darkcoins? So, you're a criminal? What do you have to hide? Anyone, including the believers, will continue to associate dark technology with illicit activities, because it may briefly make the price go up. If you do not understand how damaging this will be to the image and value of the product, then you need to stop for a minute and try to think about the longer term and the big picture. Soon there may be no difference in people's mind between darkcoin, dark network and the infamous dark web. I find this the quintessential reason why Darkcoin MAY fail entirely, despite it's innovation.

Vultures are flying over the DRK thread to steal the innovation once it's open source and spin it differently. Don't be too surprised if they then beat the now infamous DARKCOIN in market share, because they have the same tech, but with a positive spin. I'm not investing in darkcoin for it to become a niche.

#08 - Is there a need of management and coordination? Maybe it's a good idea to start considering both management & marketing as an essential layer of DRK. There should be a Dark foundation that steers and coordinates and provides clear messages to the community, all aligned with Evan's vision. I'm under the impression that someone is just writing software and then the big holders promote it ad hoc and in whatever way they see fit. Promotion seems uncoordinated. There is no clear message on how darkcoin should be presented and promoted, creating unwanted, incoherent and dubious references to darkcoin.

#10 - FUD: Reaction by governmental institutions or other on the 'darkness'. Perhaps this is drama, but this coin will facilitate "some of the worst things in the world". You just know they'll spin it like that. As a serious investor, I can not yet see a bright future. The way I see it is that this coin may some day be *too hot to handle* for most people, especially because there is no clear communication on this. It may turn ugly, when various illegal market places are operating using Darkcoin technology. Some people are actually hoping for this to happen. A foundation could do so much to spread a clear message on this: "Privacy is the right of every human being, however the Darkcoin foundation does not condone any illegal activity.". Make this perfectly clear please. Quoting Evan isn't really going to put my mind at ease. Creating clarity in regards to this aspect would be appreciated by serious investors. You may need to implement a communication strategy before it becomes an issue. Be prepared.

In my opinion, we should start thinking about DRK as a product with a consumer market in real life, or at least take this approach instead of the narrowminded crypto approach. So what is our market? What are our targeted consumers? How should we brand our product? It's kind of unclear right now due to a lack of strategy or foundation, while overfocussing on the technical aspect and price . It's already somewhat taking the wrong direction? If the marketing issue could be solved, and the product works as advertised, this would effectively be Bitcoin's first prominent successor aka the first true altcoin. I can really see this. Fact is that I'm aware that few people will want to change the branding because of the 'good will' that has already been created around the name "darkcoin". If so, it will always make promotion difficult, there will always be concerns/FUD and hence serious investors will think twice about investing in this product.

[salmion]

Yep I believe that is the plan.

RC5 >>> Open source >>> Press >>> DarkTor

I think IP obfuscation is somewhere between RC5 and open source, or it might be in RC5, not sure.

DarkTor would start after open source so many people can help perfect the code. At least that's what I inferred, could be wrong.

Has Evan or any of the devs revealed what is planned in RC5? I know that there will be overall improvements and fixing, but I'm asking feature wise?
It would be good to know.
The price has bounced back a bit but looks like it won't go above 0.008 just yet.

That's the ip obfustication/messaging isn't it?

[Rux]

you can call it DARK kitty i dont care ...

guys name is not important, its CODE behind that name that will do job

and yea... again I aint selling this year, others should stop selling... let it boil for 1 month and you will see 0.1

but no...you think you are trader, you can impact market with your DRK ... you can profit... yes yes

[splawik21]

2 9 0 0 pages
100 to go.....

[Walter_S]

Just stunned at the brilliance of the new DarkTor masternode service - amazing.

Dont we already have a VPS provider in iceland that accepts Darkcoin.

I will gladly use them, darksend them some coins and become an exit node....with the number of TOR users out there, I think someone calculated that at 50 cents per user per day, and 1000 masternodes thats like $180,000 return a year per masternode!!

I think we need to have some further discussions around how it will all work but super excited after RC5 + obfuscation at this project!

Yeah, that was me on the darkcointalk https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/page-2. And the numbers were based on 10 cents per user per day not 50 cents!

Also bear in mind that as it stands the absolute maximum number of masternodes can't really go above the total number of DRKs that will ever exist in circulation ( roughly 22,000,000 DRKs) / (1000DRKs ) = 22,000 Masternodes.

And that's an absolute. In reality I'd be surprised if MN numbers went over 10,000 as the currency is also to be used for transaction volume. DRK can't function as a currency if there is no liquidity due to all the coins being tied up in cold wallets!

Naturally, this can only change if the 1000 DRK cost of 'ownership' is changed somehow... Does anyone - including Evan - have a view on this? Is it set in stone?

Regards,

Walter

[Rux]

walter... if there is like 95% of coin in Masternodes.... then bro we would have junkie fever for DRK  hahahah

i sure hope that will happen

[thelonecrouton]

And that's an absolute. In reality I'd be surprised if MN numbers went over 10,000 as the currency is also to be used for transaction volume. DRK can't function as a currency if there is no liquidity due to all the coins being tied up in cold wallets!

We have a decimal point... integer number of coins in circulation is a irrelevant. More DRK tied up in cold storage = better price stability.

[Minotaur26]

Just stunned at the brilliance of the new DarkTor masternode service - amazing.

Dont we already have a VPS provider in iceland that accepts Darkcoin.

I will gladly use them, darksend them some coins and become an exit node....with the number of TOR users out there, I think someone calculated that at 50 cents per user per day, and 1000 masternodes thats like $180,000 return a year per masternode!!

I think we need to have some further discussions around how it will all work but super excited after RC5 + obfuscation at this project!

Yeah, that was me on the darkcointalk https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/page-2. And the numbers were based on 10 cents per user per day not 50 cents!

Also bear in mind that as it stands the absolute maximum number of masternodes can't really go above the total number of DRKs that will ever exist in circulation ( roughly 22,000,000 DRKs) / (1000DRKs ) = 22,000 Masternodes.

And that's an absolute. In reality I'd be surprised if MN numbers went over 10,000 as the currency is also to be used for transaction volume. DRK can't function as a currency if there is no liquidity due to all the coins being tied up in cold wallets!

Naturally, this can only change if the 1000 DRK cost of 'ownership' is changed somehow... Does anyone - including Evan - have a view on this? Is it set in stone?

Regards,

Walter

I dont understand why people talk about a liquidity issue in crypto when you could divide the units as much as you can work on mili darks or micro darks, 1microDRK = 1000 usd done, where is the liquidity issue? I really dont get it.  

[Rux]

good point minotaur... i dont understand that guys wont or dont want to understand that 0.0001 DRK could be worth 100$

[splawik21]

good point minotaur... i dont understand that guys wont or dont want to understand that 0.0001 DRK could be worth 100$

LOL so I`ve mined $9000 since yesterday

[Rux]

good point minotaur... i dont understand that guys wont or dont want to understand that 0.0001 DRK could be worth 100$

LOL so I`ve mined $9000 since yesterday

maybe you did... we will know

[Minotaur26]

good point minotaur... i dont understand that guys wont or dont want to understand that 0.0001 DRK could be worth 100$

LOL so I`ve mined $9000 since yesterday

Lol the point is the system will balance itself, maybe the price rises to a point where some folks decide to cash in some masternodes then it corrects until it finds its sweet spot but there is no liquidity issue.  

Also,  I believe adding utility to the Darkcoin network is a huge thing, because it provides the coin with a core ecosystem to promote its use and adoption, it can still be use for everything else like buying icecream but it gives it a core demand that will make it attractive by providing services, so basically Darkcoin would be the official currency of the DarkNetwork but is also useful outside of it as a means of exchange, much in the same way the USD is the official currency of the United States but it is used all over the world. The USD is used in the whole world because the size of its economy ensures volume and demand, so adding an economy to the Darkcoin network will only strenghten the coin and give it value.

[Ignition75]

I think RenegadeMan lack of global vision. We are not talking about US service or EU service, we are talking about something can help people all around the world.

China, Iran, Pakistan, Russia, some african countries, most of arab countries like Siria, Egipt, etc.. there are a lot of countries which are not regular democracies like US and EU. Every day journalists, freedom fighters are killed all around the world.

I fully understand what DRK's going to do for the millions of people in the world for who privacy isn't just something nice to have, their very life depends on it.

Contrary to some of the comments on here (which are hardly a surprise, so many people aren't able to think through counterpoint issues, they just return to a default position of rejecting even constructive criticism) I'm not misunderstanding the enormity of what DRK's potentially going to bring to the wider world. I'm talking about the risk to DRK of government and big business facilitating a whipping up of extreme public negative sentiment towards it resulting in a witch-hunt style of attack on anyone involved in running DRK MNs and/or DRK related businesses/services.

It's the risk to DRK of it becoming publicly associated first and foremost as a "criminals' network" that I'm highlighting, not whether DRK has validity, everyone here knows it does. The level of anonymity and privacy offered is a fundamental right that we all should be upholding.

I'm talking about the risk DRK faces and whether we can mitigate that risk to some extent.

So is just a marketing issue? Just spread the map I published. Freedom is a rare thing in our world! We need to make people think about that.

I had the exact same attitude as RenegadeMan when I first discovered Darkcoin, then I realised, it's this attitude that empowers the existing way of things.  You almost have to break free of this mental prism you are programmed with growing up in a developed society.

The world is thirsty for a change, whenever I'm on the street talking to regular folk about Crypto, I say that it gives the ability for people to exchange money, securely, without the need for banks...  You should see their eyes light up... Then the programming kicks on, "Oh I heard Bitcoin is not secure, what happened to that exchange that lost all it's money?"...

The existing establishment is going to throw untold amounts of money at a media blitzkrieg for many years to come, it's gonna get really ugly before it gets better for Crypto, but as Alex said, 75% of the world is without banking and developed infrastructure, we have to ride Google's wave of getting cheap smartphones into the hands of the masses to show all their ads, and just make sure we have a super light and secure Darkcoin app running in the background