1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?

[Inaba]

Oh, I was looking at the schematic on their website.  NM then!

So here's the deal - if they have this (obviously) physical prototype (at the least) or actual potential product... let me walk across the street and see it and/or take pictures of it first hand.

This would go a long way to quelling any fears people have about it being vaporware and would take about 5 minutes of time for everyone involved.  At least we'd know there is a physical product - whether or not it performs as described is another issue entirely.

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[makomk]

An FPGA or structured ASIC would already have an etched heatspreader.

Well, yes, quite. There's definitely something very fishy about the lack of labelling.

[bulanula]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

[plastic.elastic]

Oh, I was looking at the schematic on their website.  NM then!

So here's the deal - if they have this (obviously) physical prototype (at the least) or actual potential product... let me walk across the street and see it and/or take pictures of it first hand.

This would go a long way to quelling any fears people have about it being vaporware and would take about 5 minutes of time for everyone involved.  At least we'd know there is a physical product - whether or not it performs as described is another issue entirely.

You should seriously go and knock on their doors. Must be done randomly and dont post on here when you're coming by.

[Inaba]

The lofts are locked and require an access card.  There is no intercom or anything, either.

No room/apt/suite number is listed on the website anyway, even if I could get in by tailgating or something.

[gmaxwell]

The lofts are locked and require an access card.  There is no intercom or anything, either.

No room/apt/suite number is listed on the website anyway, even if I could get in by tailgating or something.

I thought Luke had said they answer their phones. Call 'em up and ask when you can swing by.  I think it would be reasonable to say that if you confirm their legitimacy lots of people will order  (so be sure to ask for a good cut :-P ). 

[Littleshop]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

[ElectricMucus]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...

I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?

[Littleshop]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...

I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?

No, actually they have not.  The fact that they use an available OEM case vs building their own actually makes it more believable to me. 

We have a photo of the board in the case.  Now if you can find the same exact photo with a different board in it, same background then you are on to something.

[gmaxwell]

Except this time people have found the original version of the pictures...
I mean it could be real regardless, but what are the odds?

Huh? So they reused some case photographs. Thats hardly indicative of deception.  Is newegg a scammer because they use manufacturer provided shots of some products?

[ElectricMucus]

Well and what about the lobby shots? What's the explanation for them?

[wormbog]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

[sadpandatech]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

[DeathAndTaxes]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

[sadpandatech]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

  Except in our case, the burden of proof lies nither with the nay sayers or the optimists. It is of the creator to present, and thus far he has, atleast in pretty pixel form....

[DeathAndTaxes]

Except in our case, the burden of proof lies nither with the nay sayers or the optimists. It is of the creator to present, and thus far he has, atleast in pretty pixel form....

He hasn't provide proof of anything except a $20 PCB. If someone was running a scam trying to get tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a non-existent project then producing a $20 PCB that does absolutely nothing would be a decent ROI% don't you think.

[Littleshop]

Except in our case, the burden of proof lies nither with the nay sayers or the optimists. It is of the creator to present, and thus far he has, atleast in pretty pixel form....

He hasn't provide proof of anything except a $20 PCB. If someone was running a scam trying to get tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a non-existent project then producing a $20 PCB that does absolutely nothing would be a decent ROI% don't you think.

Good point.  I had no idea you can get a raw pcb made singles like that for $20, but if you can, that changes things. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

Except in our case, the burden of proof lies nither with the nay sayers or the optimists. It is of the creator to present, and thus far he has, atleast in pretty pixel form....

He hasn't provide proof of anything except a $20 PCB. If someone was running a scam trying to get tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for a non-existent project then producing a $20 PCB that does absolutely nothing would be a decent ROI% don't you think.

Good point.  I had no idea you can get a raw pcb made singles like that for $20, but if you can, that changes things. 

Well the $20 are usually the ugly yellow kind without silkscreening.  Say $50 for a high end prototype board.

[wormbog]

Looking fake to me. No markings on chips ? No real incentive to develop real BTC mining product now. More like a scam it seems.

Why do they not submit proof ? Because they don't have proof for a scam. Simple.

This thread reminds me of a long thread on a car site, where most of the people said the car was a fake, and it turned out real.  Lots of analysis of the pictures, including people who were CERTAIN that it was a photoshop job, with detailed graphical markups of the (perceived) problems in the pictures.  

Forget about the product photos. The company's office address is fake and their business is not registered with the state. The scammer clearly has some electrical engineering knowledge and probably has access to a lab somewhere. He's clearly qualified to mock up a plausible looking product. But he can't fake an office or an entry in the state business database. It has already been proven that Butterfly Labs Inc. is not a real business! The photos are irrelevant!

  So, I suppose it would not be pluasable at all for someone to want to enter a product into an 'underground' economy and keep his business, well, underground? ;p

Correct, it is not plausible that a someone making a complex, highly technical, and legal product would choose to sell it exclusively to the 'underground' marketplace by announcing it on a public message board with a link to a public website.

  Edit; and why is it when anyone argues that there really isn't sufficent evidence to yell 'SCAM' that everyone assumes we're fuggin retarded and being scammed?  Just wanted to point out that I am far from being naive. But, I am open minded....

I haven't heard anyone argue that there's not sufficient evidence to show that it's a scam. Nobody has proposed any reasonable explanation for why Butterfly has a fake office address and is not registered in the state they claim to be doing business in. Those defending the "it's not a scam" position choose to ignore those facts and focus instead on the PCB photos.

I don't think anyone here is stupid or being willfully ignorant. But I do think there are people here who really want this product to be real and are willing to dismiss all evidence to the contrary.

It's the same mentality that drives people to buy lottery tickets, go to church, and vote Republican. 

[worldinacoin]

Yeap, I tend to agree, why would they want to spend so much time scamming such a tiny community.  We aren't really big and there aren't that many miners.