Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 03:25:55 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 »
  Print  
Author Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?  (Read 116614 times)
sadpandatech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
November 15, 2011, 12:07:07 AM
 #521

Forgive to newb, please.

I keep getting distracted by Mt Gox Live.

  bad, newbie, bad! ;p

  All kidding aside, I know right!? Friggin down almost a $buck one 24h run. That's nuts. Poor lil tradin' bot was working overtime trying to keep up.


  BFL, we need more geek paraphernalia!

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481340355
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481340355

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481340355
Reply with quote  #2

1481340355
Report to moderator
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 12:36:46 AM
 #522

Quote
  BFL, we need more geek paraphernalia!
I'm optimistic about the single.  My understanding is the mining software that will be shipping with the unit is windows only -- but will run in a virtual box under linux. 

Crossing fingers.
sadpandatech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
November 15, 2011, 01:22:21 AM
 #523

Quote
  BFL, we need more geek paraphernalia!
I'm optimistic about the single.  My understanding is the mining software that will be shipping with the unit is windows only -- but will run in a virtual box under linux. 

Crossing fingers.
  I've grown cynical in my years but I am watching it closely. I'm not holding my breath though and have drawn my plans as if it does not exist until such a time that it is proven otherwise.

 hmm, virtual box but not directly under wine? Wonder if that helps narrow down the language it's in.?

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 01:43:00 AM
 #524

Quote
  BFL, we need more geek paraphernalia!
I'm optimistic about the single.  My understanding is the mining software that will be shipping with the unit is windows only -- but will run in a virtual box under linux. 

Crossing fingers.
  I've grown cynical in my years but I am watching it closely. I'm not holding my breath though and have drawn my plans as if it does not exist until such a time that it is proven otherwise.

 hmm, virtual box but not directly under wine? Wonder if that helps narrow down the language it's in.?
I have a canoscan 90 scanner that does not work under ubuntu (no sane driver), but works like a charm in virtual box.  Also, it is not that there isn't a linux version of the mining software, but the shipping version will be windows.

I certainly am skeptical, but scam is not my primary reaction.  While not out of the question, I just don't see a scammer saying, "I think I'll try to pull a fast one on a small group of smart people."  I think it would have to be a numbers game.  But I really don't know since I'm not a con-man, and really haven't given "pulling the perfect con-job" a good study.
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


1ngldh


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 02:38:56 AM
 #525

I certainly am skeptical, but scam is not my primary reaction.  While not out of the question, I just don't see a scammer saying, "I think I'll try to pull a fast one on a small group of smart people."  I think it would have to be a numbers game.  But I really don't know since I'm not a con-man, and really haven't given "pulling the perfect con-job" a good study.

This is my view, and indeed the time and effort invested so far in this project is much greater than in any other scam I have seen. Thus my gut feel that this is going to be legit.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


1ngldh


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 02:40:48 AM
 #526

Can someone explain to me how the "Rig Box" with 32 cards gets a higher output than the "Single" x32?

Are the cards in the "Rig Box" different?  Could 32 "singles even fit in the "Rig Box"?


1.05 for the "Single" and 54.4 for the "Rig box"

Thanks.

I presume they won't be using the same card as the single, because the single does not look like it is designed to be plugged into a system. If the Rig Box is modular, it must use different boards (likely yet-to-be-developed)

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
sadpandatech
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504



View Profile
November 15, 2011, 02:50:50 AM
 #527

How could they know that it will have the output they claim if they have yet to developed it?
  same way any pcb/chip dev knows. They design it and emulate its function before they build it. presumably in this case, of course.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
legolouman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


Decent Programmer to boot!


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 02:56:13 AM
 #528

I was watching this thread a while ago. Have we come to any definitive-ish conclusion? Have any of the people that ordered one reported back?

If you love me, you'd give me a Satoshi!
BTC - 1MSzGKh5znbrcEF2qTrtrWBm4ydH5eT49f
LTC - LYeJrmYQQvt6gRQxrDz66XTwtkdodx9udz
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 03:16:44 AM
 #529

I was watching this thread a while ago. Have we come to any definitive-ish conclusion? Have any of the people that ordered one reported back?

No, nothing yet. We can not even see the Lab or meet the guy in KC.



I do hope this works as the biggest problem I have with bitcoin is that the use of electricity is massive and bad for the environment. I do hope this works out, however I doubt it will in the time stated.

Let's see what happens before the 25th.  I don't believe that two pre-orders from the same company will fly from a sales POV.  My hunch is that they will end the pre-orders for the singles before they start pre-orders for the rig box. Not to mean the singles will be shipping, only that the pre-orders will end and maybe some kind of public demo of the singles. I don't KNOW. My HUNCH!
legolouman
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448


Decent Programmer to boot!


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 03:24:09 AM
 #530

Okay guys, thanks. I had read a while ago, that the business also wasn't registered legitimately, anything on that?

If you love me, you'd give me a Satoshi!
BTC - 1MSzGKh5znbrcEF2qTrtrWBm4ydH5eT49f
LTC - LYeJrmYQQvt6gRQxrDz66XTwtkdodx9udz
BitcoinPappi
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 719


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 03:33:08 AM
 #531

THis looks interesting, wouldnt this be a nice Christmas present if it is really true
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 03:59:17 AM
 #532

Can someone explain to me how the "Rig Box" with 32 cards gets a higher output than the "Single" x32?

Are the cards in the "Rig Box" different?  Could 32 "singles even fit in the "Rig Box"?


1.05 for the "Single" and 54.4 for the "Rig box"

Thanks.
This observation is interesting to me.  The performance "guarantee" as stated on the pre-order form is listed as 1.05 GH/s +- 10% variance.  However, it is always better to under promise guaranteed performance levels.  The BFL rep who remarked about the previous betting hinted that the performance might be better than described.  54.4/32 = 1.7 GH/s.  I think that if they had advertised that number they wouldn't get any orders.  "Obvious scam is a scam" being the operative thought.

That said, a total piece of high risk speculation on my part.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 04:06:35 AM
 #533

+/- 10% is one thing +/- 70% is another.  

It seems illogical that they would design multiple different boards with different FPGA given how small the market is.   The "single" would be fine for use in a cluster, maybe having different connectors, and communication methods but roughly the same design.  Having a different board makes little sense.  I mean 1.05GH using 2 FPGA for one product and then 1.7GH per board for the second product.

If the rig consisted of similar dual FPGA designs one could expect it to be roughly 1.05 * 32 = 33.6GH/s.  Even +10% would be 36.96GH which makes the 54.4 number illogical.  Not the first thing w/ this company.
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 04:22:20 AM
 #534

+/- 10% is one thing +/- 70% is another.  

It seems illogical that they would design multiple different boards with different FPGA given how small the market is.   The "single" would be fine for use in a cluster, maybe having different connectors, and communication methods but roughly the same design.  Having a different board makes little sense.  I mean 1.05GH using 2 FPGA for one product and then 1.7GH per board for the second product.

If the rig consisted of similar dual FPGA designs one could expect it to be roughly 1.05 * 32 = 33.6GH/s.  Even +10% would be 36.96GH which makes the 54.4 number illogical.  Not the first thing w/ this company.
It may be that the single is capable of performing 1.7 GH/s, when in a properly efficient case.  In that little box with the 80mm fan and tiny heat sink, and small power requirement, it may only be capable of 1.05.  The same unit in a properly vented, higher powered case it may be able to reach 1.7.  Like I said high risk speculation on my part.

In any case I am hoping we'll have a better grasp of the situation in 2 or 3 weeks.  Let's see.
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


Gerald Davis


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 04:26:41 AM
 #535

+/- 10% is one thing +/- 70% is another. 

It seems illogical that they would design multiple different boards with different FPGA given how small the market is.   The "single" would be fine for use in a cluster, maybe having different connectors, and communication methods but roughly the same design.  Having a different board makes little sense.  I mean 1.05GH using 2 FPGA for one product and then 1.7GH per board for the second product.

If the rig consisted of similar dual FPGA designs one could expect it to be roughly 1.05 * 32 = 33.6GH/s.  Even +10% would be 36.96GH which makes the 54.4 number illogical.  Not the first thing w/ this company.
It may be that the single is capable of performing 1.7 GH/s, when in a properly efficient case.  In that little box with the 80mm fan and tiny heat sink, and small power requirement, it may only be capable of 1.05.  The same unit in a properly vented, higher powered case it may be able to reach 1.7.  Like I said high risk speculation on my part.

In any case I am hoping we'll have a better grasp of the situation in 2 or 3 weeks.  Let's see.

Given the high cost of FPGA that would be beyond stupid.  It would be like car company selling 8 cylinder cars and then making a compact model which has 4 cylinders by just turning off 4 of the cylinders (but keeping all the cost of 8 cylinder engine) and putting lackluster cooling in it. 

FPGA is very very very expensive.  Every clock cycle is worth something.  You don't build a product which could run at 1.7 GH and say "well 1 GH is good enough because we fucked up the cooling and power requirements."  It just doesn't make any sense. 
RandyFolds
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434



View Profile
November 15, 2011, 04:29:33 AM
 #536

+/- 10% is one thing +/- 70% is another.  

It seems illogical that they would design multiple different boards with different FPGA given how small the market is.   The "single" would be fine for use in a cluster, maybe having different connectors, and communication methods but roughly the same design.  Having a different board makes little sense.  I mean 1.05GH using 2 FPGA for one product and then 1.7GH per board for the second product.

If the rig consisted of similar dual FPGA designs one could expect it to be roughly 1.05 * 32 = 33.6GH/s.  Even +10% would be 36.96GH which makes the 54.4 number illogical.  Not the first thing w/ this company.
It may be that the single is capable of performing 1.7 GH/s, when in a properly efficient case.  In that little box with the 80mm fan and tiny heat sink, and small power requirement, it may only be capable of 1.05.  The same unit in a properly vented, higher powered case it may be able to reach 1.7.  Like I said high risk speculation on my part.

In any case I am hoping we'll have a better grasp of the situation in 2 or 3 weeks.  Let's see.

You are far too optimistic. Better cooling will not cause a 70% leap in efficiency.

▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓ ONEDICE.ME ▓▓▓▓▓ BEST DICE EXPERIENCE ▓▓▓▓ PLAY OR INVEST ▓▓▓▓▓▓
▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


1ngldh


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 04:30:26 AM
 #537

Given the high cost of FPGA that would be beyond stupid.  It would be like car company selling 8 cylinder cars and then making a compact model which has 4 cylinders by just turning off 4 of the cylinders (but keeping all the cost of 8 cylinder engine) and putting lackluster cooling in it. 

FPGA is very very very expensive.  Every clock cycle is worth something.  You don't build a product which could run at 1.7 GH and say "well 1 GH is good enough because we fucked up the cooling and power requirements."  It just doesn't make any sense. 

However, if they were ASICs, they could be designed with fuses and then have no redesign cost when they want to increase the output. The idea was Gmaxwell's, not mine Smiley

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 05:15:15 AM
 #538

Well the thread was started 18 Oct. BFL has a 4 to 8 week delivery time for pre-order units.  So we are approaching the delivery time zone.  Some time (unless we hear otherwise) on or around (hopefully before) 18 Dec, someone will receive a single.

Let's see what happens.
rph
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 176


View Profile
November 15, 2011, 05:26:17 AM
 #539

4-8 weeks probably means 8+ weeks. If they meant 4 weeks, they would have said 2-4 weeks.
Marketing 101!

-rph

Ultra-Low-Cost DIY FPGA Miner: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44891
bulanula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile
November 15, 2011, 01:10:26 PM
 #540

I am sure BFL guy will explain why it has been delayed either on the website or in this thread Roll Eyes

Waiting for the scam to arrive ?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 [27] 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!