Bitcoin Forum
April 23, 2014, 09:17:10 AM *
News: Due to the OpenSSL heartbleed bug, changing your forum password is recommended.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 [47] 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62
  Print  
Author Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?  (Read 80390 times)
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:11:36 AM
 #921

Surprise, surprise. Another delay in the demo. I will be surprised if they actually are able to show inaba it working. In the meantime I wonder if they got any 26k orders for the big box.
True.

Legitimate software NEVER ships with bugs.  There can be NO DOUBT the Butterfly Single IS a SCAM!

DO NOT spend your money on the scammer widgits.
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator
1398244630
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1398244630

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1398244630
Reply with quote  #2

1398244630
Report to moderator
bittenbob
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:16:18 AM
 #922

Surprise, surprise. Another delay in the demo. I will be surprised if they actually are able to show inaba it working. In the meantime I wonder if they got any 26k orders for the big box.
True.

Legitimate software NEVER ships with bugs.  There can be NO DOUBT the Butterfly Single IS a SCAM!

DO NOT spend your money on the scammer widgits.

It just seems too convenient that they are having problems getting it to work and keep on pushing back a working demo.
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:22:22 AM
 #923

Surprise, surprise. Another delay in the demo. I will be surprised if they actually are able to show inaba it working. In the meantime I wonder if they got any 26k orders for the big box.
True.

Legitimate software NEVER ships with bugs.  There can be NO DOUBT the Butterfly Single IS a SCAM!

DO NOT spend your money on the scammer widgits.

It just seems too convenient that they are having problems getting it to work and keep on pushing back a working demo.
New hardware, new software,  Primary development was done on Windows. Inaba's laptop probably was running ubuntu(if the same as photo). I'm willing to give BFL the benefit of the doubt, we should have a clearer idea in a few days.
RandyFolds
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 406


How much for the bacon-wrapped hotdog?


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:24:21 AM
 #924

This is just too friggin': (choose all that apply) unbelievable/ridiculous/scammy/unprofessional/amateur/scammy/scammy/scammy/disappointing.

They don't have one single prototype working to show Inaba? Goodness.

e: amendment to list to reflect sentiments below.
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:28:32 AM
 #925

This is just too friggin': (choose all that apply) unbelievable/ridiculous/scammy/unprofessional/amateur/scammy/scammy/scammy.

They don't have one single prototype working to show Inaba? Goodness.
Agreed, that's why I suspect it is a software issue.  What good is the hardware without software to recognize it?

I was jazzed up to see performance numbers tonight, but I can wait to resolve the inevitable glitch.

Disappointed, but I understand.
bittenbob
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 546


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:29:27 AM
 #926

Surprise, surprise. Another delay in the demo. I will be surprised if they actually are able to show inaba it working. In the meantime I wonder if they got any 26k orders for the big box.
True.

Legitimate software NEVER ships with bugs.  There can be NO DOUBT the Butterfly Single IS a SCAM!

DO NOT spend your money on the scammer widgits.

It just seems too convenient that they are having problems getting it to work and keep on pushing back a working demo.
New hardware, new software,  Primary development was done on Windows. Inaba's laptop probably was running ubuntu(if the same as photo). I'm willing to give BFL the benefit of the doubt, we should have a clearer idea in a few days.

Im sure Inaba could have put windows on there and im sure OS would have been discussed as they were planning a demo. Yes it could be a bug but I still find it awfully suspicious and convenient. How could they know precisely the MH/s and power consumption if it has never been running? Sometimes things dont work as well as planned you know
chungenhung
SCAMMER
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:33:42 AM
 #927

2. should we be scared ? I certainly am.

No.  Even w/ GPU one can 51% attack the network w/ roughly 20M invested.  This brings the cost closer to 10M (be sure to include labor, warehouse space, electricity, cooling, security, etc).

It simply isn't worth it for someone to spend that kind of money to destroy Bitcoin.  20M or 10M.  If/when Bitcoin becomes larger the network will hopefully be even larger thus as the potential of Bitcoin rises the cost to destroy it rises also.

No blockchain will ever be immune to the threats of governments.  Even if the cost is $100M it is "nothing".  The US has wasted something like $500,000 million on the three decade long failed war on drugs and almost $1,00,000 million on the war against terror.  (Side note wars against nouns are usually futile).

The point of the high cost of a block chain is to make it ECONOMICALLY NONVIABLE for an attacker to spend the amount of money necessary to destroy the network.  It isn't a magic gain auto and unlimited immunity against every govt on the planet.
Sure, the Gov can always spend money at will. The US gov simply has to print more money. I am sure $10M is nothing since the gov has already printed trillions

Trading MtGox USD for Dwolla/ACH deposit/Chase cash deposit
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90115.0
Buy/Sell Call/Put Bitcoin options https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99853.0
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:44:50 AM
 #928

Surprise, surprise. Another delay in the demo. I will be surprised if they actually are able to show inaba it working. In the meantime I wonder if they got any 26k orders for the big box.
True.

Legitimate software NEVER ships with bugs.  There can be NO DOUBT the Butterfly Single IS a SCAM!

DO NOT spend your money on the scammer widgits.

It just seems too convenient that they are having problems getting it to work and keep on pushing back a working demo.
New hardware, new software,  Primary development was done on Windows. Inaba's laptop probably was running ubuntu(if the same as photo). I'm willing to give BFL the benefit of the doubt, we should have a clearer idea in a few days.

Im sure Inaba could have put windows on there and im sure OS would have been discussed as they were planning a demo. Yes it could be a bug but I still find it awfully suspicious and convenient. How could they know precisely the MH/s and power consumption if it has never been running? Sometimes things dont work as well as planned you know
Yes, which is why I am anxious to see real numbers.

Yes, the world is full of scammers.  They don't care a whit about anybody but themselves(Bernie Madoff).  I think we make a poor club to take advantage.  Fairly highly educated, skeptical, and fairly communicative. How long could a scam last?

Would pre-orders for the rig box take off if it is determined that the singles are fraudulent? Scam over, man.

All in all, software defects DO happen, and I am not happy it happened tonight, but I am sure the BFL people are even less happy.

So while we still have our life savings, let's wait a couple of days and see how it goes.
gmaxwell
Staff
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:48:11 AM
 #929

Sure, the Gov can always spend money at will. The US gov simply has to print more money. I am sure $10M is nothing since the gov has already printed trillions

Sure but there are cheaper ways to screw up bitcoin .. declare using it and mining it illegal and punishable by death.  Free attention from the press— say its a childpornterrorist tool—, a couple helicopters with flir, a few raids, some additional proposed legislation in a few more friendly countries, and a public execution or two and the bitcoin security is gone _real quick_ ... and not even a million bucks spent.  No fussy costly and highly public technical attacks that are going to result in civil litigation and might by thwarted counter measures that risk making the powers that be look incompetent.... just the core tools of authority: ink on paper and jackbooted thugs, tried and proven.  ("Goverment builds $10m building bitcoin busting ASIC farm, bitcoiner's change one value in their POW algorithm and do a network wide updated and the $10m farm is worthless", a counter measure we won't have forever but it's one we'll have up until the good guys are using asic/sasic in mass)

The long term security of bitcoin depends on it being to unimportant, uninteresting, and unconventional for that kind of adversary to bother with it.. until such a time as bitcoin is too important for them to afford and beloved to afford messing with it. If you look at how slowly most large institutions have adapted to technology this outcome doesn't seem unlikely.

Bitcoin isn't all negatives for the status-quo authorities— it should increase economic efficiency, and it removes the unfortunate attraction of printing money which all politicians hate (or at least hate when its for someone elses program) but almost universally can't resist when its for their own programs—... and if the public at large wants it, suppressing it would look bad indeed and wouldn't work out well in places that claim to have freedom.
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 04:51:09 AM
 #930

Sure, the Gov can always spend money at will. The US gov simply has to print more money. I am sure $10M is nothing since the gov has already printed trillions

Sure but there are cheaper ways to screw up bitcoin .. declare using it and mining it illegal and punishable by death.  Free attention from the press— say its a childpornterrorist tool—, a couple helicopters with flir, a few raids, some additional proposed legislation in a few more friendly countries, and a public execution or two and the bitcoin security is gone _real quick_ ... and not even a million bucks spent.  No fussy costly and highly public technical attacks that are going to result in civil litigation and might by thwarted counter measures that risk making the powers that be look incompetent.... just the core tools of authority: ink on paper and jackbooted thugs, tried and proven.  ("Goverment builds $10m building bitcoin busting ASIC farm, bitcoiner's change one value in their POW algorithm and do a network wide updated and the $10m farm is worthless", a counter measure we won't have forever but it's one we'll have up until the good guys are using asic/sasic in mass)

The long term security of bitcoin depends on it being to unimportant, uninteresting, and unconventional for that kind of adversary to bother with it.. until such a time as bitcoin is too important for them to afford and beloved to afford messing with it. If you look at how slowly most large institutions have adapted to technology this outcome doesn't seem unlikely.

Bitcoin isn't all negatives for the status-quo authorities— it should increase economic efficiency, and it removes the unfortunate attraction of printing money which all politicians hate (or at least hate when its for someone elses program) but almost universally can't resist when its for their own programs—... and if the public at large wants it, suppressing it would look bad indeed and wouldn't work out well in places that claim to have freedom.

I am sure bitcoin would REALLY take off it the Saudis required all petroleum purchases be conducted in bitcoin.

And then the Gov would take action.
plastic.elastic
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 06:18:25 AM
 #931

so where did BFL get the performance figure from?

Technical specs? how can they advertise such performance and even have preorder?

 

Tips gladly accepted: 1LPaxHPvpzN3FbaGBaZShov3EFafxJDG42
Transisto
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 06:27:56 AM
 #932

I have 3 day to cancel 5x 5970, maybe hurry up !...

Visit and contribute to reddit.com/r/Bitcoin
fred0
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 349


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 06:48:44 AM
 #933

so where did BFL get the performance figure from?

Technical specs? how can they advertise such performance and even have preorder?
Well, on the forum there has been much speculation as to the hardware used, optimization techniques, but they KNOW what devices are on the board.  My guess is they estimated what the device should be capable of producing.

They know the technical specs, we don't.  For us it is a black box that generates bitcoins.

We are paying attention to the demo because we want to see how well the widget can perform.  Until it measured, the number we are getting from BFL is/should be an educated extrapolation based on their knowledge of the hardware, and hopefully, they are spot on.  

However, it could also be that they are giving us measured result, but no one in the forum believes the numbers.

Until we see hashing measured by a trusted source, there is doubt.

Preorders were to fund the development, they were up front with this, I see no cause for complaint about preorder.  Preorders received $200 discount from the regular price.

Frankly, I can't imagine more problems NOT coming up.  Let's go one step at a time and see results for the demo.

If BFL is a scam, I'm sure they are already packing.  If a legit organization, they are working diligently to determine where the problem is.

We will see soon.
bulanula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 09:28:32 AM
 #934

I wake up expecting some proof and really thinking "this is 90% real right now" and instead wake up to find more delays ( initially it was supposed to be Friday then Sunday now next week LOL ). BFL fix your stuff please I wanna get rid of my noisy and hot GPUs ASAP.
P4man
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420



View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 09:43:22 AM
 #935

Question to anyone that preordered: have you received any news or updates about the delivery schedule? Is there anyone who is past his chargeback deadline or who already did a chargeback and if so, how did BFL handle it?

I aint signing anything.
makomk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 10:17:31 AM
 #936

Indeed you are correct.  There are some technical issues with the timing between the board and the software that they are working out, apparently.  I understand this will probably bring all the conspiracy theorists to the fore, so have at it.  For everyone else, I'm told that they will be ready in a couple days or so for a live demo. 
That's... interesting. Generally from what I've seen, unless you screw up the power and cooling FPGA-based designs either work or they don't; the communication between board and software isn't terribly complicated either. You can do it quite happily over serial and they've got a very widely-supported USB to serial chip on the board which they appear to be using as such so it's not like they even have to deal with USB.

Quad XC6SLX150 Board: 860 MHash/s or so.
SIGS ABOUT BUTTERFLY LABS ARE PAID ADS
Herodes
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 868


View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 12:32:42 PM
 #937

Remember the classical signs of a scam everybody: Delays, delays and more delays. +Excuses, excuses and more excuses.

As far as I can see it, BF Labs has failed at producing the demo that they promised, they have also failed at giving a proper
message as to why they failed.

I wouldn't touch this project with a barge-pole at the moment.

In the remote instance that they're infact legit, they suck hard at estimates and PR.

Meanwhile, the suckers keeps ordering, as the excitement builds up.

This smells like rotten fish over the entire atlantic sea.

And remember that even though a unit is eventually demoed that gives the proper hash-rate, it's no guarantee that buyers
in fact recieve nothing if they order.

Sorry, if this comes forth as very negative, but all the classical signs of a scam are there: Delays, excuses and poor communication.
bulanula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 518



View Profile

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 12:55:53 PM
 #938

Remember the classical signs of a scam everybody: Delays, delays and more delays. +Excuses, excuses and more excuses.

As far as I can see it, BF Labs has failed at producing the demo that they promised, they have also failed at giving a proper
message as to why they failed.

I wouldn't touch this project with a barge-pole at the moment.

In the remote instance that they're infact legit, they suck hard at estimates and PR.

Meanwhile, the suckers keeps ordering, as the excitement builds up.

This smells like rotten fish over the entire atlantic sea.

And remember that even though a unit is eventually demoed that gives the proper hash-rate, it's no guarantee that buyers
in fact recieve nothing if they order.

Sorry, if this comes forth as very negative, but all the classical signs of a scam are there: Delays, excuses and poor communication.

+1 for this post. BFL you are scammers and you have proved it with these delays. Come on !!!
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 01:29:33 PM
 #939

The website first accepted pre-orders on Oct 7th.  Paypal chargeback policy is 45 days.  That was on the Nov 21st.

This thread was created on Oct 18th.  45 days later is Dec 2nd.

Gerald Davis  CEO, Tangible Cryptography Inc.
BitSimple. A simpler way to buy and sell bitcoins
runeks
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 812



View Profile WWW

Ignore
November 28, 2011, 02:15:58 PM
 #940

Question to anyone that preordered: have you received any news or updates about the delivery schedule? Is there anyone who is past his chargeback deadline or who already did a chargeback and if so, how did BFL handle it?
I made a pre-order on November 9, I have received no updates on delivery time, except them restating what they say on their site: delivery is 4-8 weeks relative to the date of purchase. They did say that development was going as planned though, but that's it.

When I get around the 40 day marker, I will be contacting BFL to ask that they send a new invoice, which I then pay, after which they cancel the old one so that I regain the 45 day period to start a dispute within. If they're legit, they have nothing to lose doing this, as far as I can see. So if they decline I will be filing a claim to get my money back.

My address: 1runeksijzfVxyrpiyCY2LCBvYsSiFsCm
ASICMiner solo hashrate: http://runeks.me/bitcoin/
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 [47] 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!