1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?

[Ashkelon]

I'm in Paris. I could go talk to that man, but being a phil major, I'd say he could confuse me rather easilly. However if some of you electronic engineers want to give me a list of question, I'd be up for it.

On the plus side, I can (through some family relations) borrow an office for a few hours in the french Ministry of research and summon/invite this guy to a meeting there, which would have the added effect of making this scammer shit himself if that is what he is.

[sadpandatech]

My mistake, I offer you my deepest and most sincerest of apologies.

No need for apologies, m8. It bothered me only enough to say 'home cheese nugs' to ya. Which, by the way, I am too old to use. But in real life I use it as a term of endearment to friends of mine if they say something 'corny'.

But to be clear, I never offered to pay a guy to do this. I said I know a guy, he checked out the place. He told me what he saw. I found that places website on Google. If the butterfly guys will let him video tape something I will ask him if he is interested. But the butterfly guys said they don't have anything to video tape so at this point its m00t.

  Yea, on that note I am not comfortable with their lack of wanting to answer some of the questions I asked, as I stated previously. I hope they will change their minds.  I can't speak for anyone else but it is going to just plain piss me off if I have to spend my own time to find out who they are.......


  Cheers

[P4man]

Its just that a couple of engineers working in a garage lab to design a better board and chip is just as plausable as a guy in Thailand being able to pay a third party in KC, MO to go video tape something..

I somewhat disagree on this. I know what it takes to make world class CMOS image sensors with onchip processing that have ended up anywhere from satellites to professional high speed cinema camera's, and it basically is just 2 or 3 experienced and talented guys with the right tools (which isnt more than a workstation with the right software).

Oh, and money. Lots of money. If this is a full custom design, a mask set for a leading edge process is no small potatoes  and basically out of reach without some serious VC funding, but assuming this is based on a off the shelve FPGA chip, at least the "couple of engineers in a garage" part is more than plausible. If they have boatloads of money, even a full custom chip would be within reach, but I doubt anyone would be able to raise sufficient capital for a bitcoin chip.

[sadpandatech]

Its just that a couple of engineers working in a garage lab to design a better board and chip is just as plausable as a guy in Thailand being able to pay a third party in KC, MO to go video tape something..

I somewhat disagree on this. I know what it takes to make world class CMOS image sensors with onchip processing that have ended up anywhere from satellites to professional high speed cinema camera's, and it basically is just 2 or 3 experienced and talented guys with the right tools (which isnt more than a workstation with the right software).

 
hehe, that was my point.

Oh, and money. Lots of money. If this is a full custom design, a mask set for a leading edge process is no small potatoes  and basically out of reach without some serious VC funding, but assuming this is based on a off the shelve FPGA chip, at least the "couple of engineers in a garage" part is more than plausible.

  That being said, I forgot to add P4man to that list of names. =)

[P4man]

hehe, that was my point.

I dont think, unless I misread you. I wasnt being ironic. I know the guys that build the sensor that most of next years hollywood movies will be filmed with. They could literally do it in their garage,...  if you fund the masksets.

 That being said, I forgot to add P4man to that list of names. =)

Nah, I dont think. Ive been in to bitcoin for like 2 months now, and just running my pc and a rat rig in the basement. What do I know? Deathandtaxes has my vote too though.

[sadpandatech]

Okay, I found out that this place is government funded low income housing. The phone number checks out to one of these rooms. You have to make less than 28k USD a year to live here. These are "Lofts". They have one room for single people and 2 rooms for families. I don't really know what that means as I always thought a "loft" was just one room...

http://www.emporis.com/building/chamberslofts-kansascity-mo-usa

http://www.americanlisted.com/missouri_25/apartments_27/594_1br_chambers_lofts_downtown_kc_13650906.html

http://ahl.mhdc.com/details.aspx?pr=709#

 I think you're misreading the whole section 8 thing a bit. In order to qualify to rent here under section 8 assitance you would have to make under 28k a year. That is to say, if you make more and do not qualify you will pay the more appropriate rate..  I will call the property management company Monday morning to verify this assumption. I tried today and none of the extensions answered.

  More importantly, someone not being wealthy does not attest to their engineering capabilities.  That being said it would be nice if they would provide us an office address or verify that they live here and do the 'design' work from workstations at this location?  If so, do they have an actual 'public' office location?

  In my line of work one of my business locations is completely 'non public' but it has a real world location none the less where face to face type business can be conducted and of course is registered at that address. Not that every biz needs an office building just to be 'real' but.

 ZOMG< you guys need to give us some more info on your company side... with all due respect, this is frustrating.


  Bring back BFL... ;p  And are BFL and BFK two differnt people using the same forum account or was one a typo??

[Ad]

 I think it's great that Butterflylabs will give a unit for one of our own to testout.
That should answer our questions. Now we just need to wait, that's the hard part.
 Thanks, Ad

[shakaru]

I will gladly fly to KC to meet you guys and take a look at the product. I would even be willing to purchase once in person to test it out and report back to the bitcoin community. Anyone in the southern california is welcome to come to my mining facility to see check this thing out.
If everything works great, I will buy at least 20 of the units and more over time.
I invite the representative of BL to contact me and set something up if interested.

Secondly. From the last post by the Labs. That is all very likely. If anyone has ever worked with pcb manufacturers or other electronics fabrication, I can design it out of my garage and have that design made in multiple locations, assembled at one and sent to me.

PS. Someone find me a way to buy a plane ticket from LAX -> KC with bitcoin.

Edit: If Butterfly accepts my offer for a walkthrough visit and possibly purchase a unit, I may take btc donations to fund a ticket bought through the op of Bitegg. Otherwise I fund the trip my self.

[sadpandatech]

I will give you the first 5 bitcoins for your plane ticket... This is going to be lulz!

  I will also pledge a few coins toward the purchase of a plane ticket if they take the offer.

[shakaru]

I will give you the first 5 bitcoins for your plane ticket... This is going to be lulz!

  I will also pledge a few coins toward the purchase of a plane ticket if they take the offer.

Awsome. I might put a Google doc sheet up to keep track. I also am going to try calling them once more tomorrow and see.

[shakaru]

Yeah I can't wait until you go. I'll double the bitcoins if you get this guy on tape selling this and upload it to youtube. We already know his name and address. Going to be epic all around!

Well I want everyone here to give them the benefit of the doubt until they accept my offer and I see for my self. I plan on filming the whole trip and uploading it to youtube. If also possible, any merchants in the KC area or along my journey who accept btc, let me know and I will see if I can stop by and buy something with coins.

[rph]

It's a paper launch at this point so even if you fly there - he's openly admitted it's not built yet
and I didn't see a release date/ETA..

At best you'll find some nerdy dudes with a couple computers and unpopulated PCBs.

-rph

[REF]

I will gladly fly to KC to meet you guys and take a look at the product. I would even be willing to purchase once in person to test it out and report back to the bitcoin community. Anyone in the southern california is welcome to come to my mining facility to see check this thing out.
If everything works great, I will buy at least 20 of the units and more over time.
I invite the representative of BL to contact me and set something up if interested.

Secondly. From the last post by the Labs. That is all very likely. If anyone has ever worked with pcb manufacturers or other electronics fabrication, I can design it out of my garage and have that design made in multiple locations, assembled at one and sent to me.

PS. Someone find me a way to buy a plane ticket from LAX -> KC with bitcoin.

Edit: If Butterfly accepts my offer for a walkthrough visit and possibly purchase a unit, I may take btc donations to fund a ticket bought through the op of Bitegg. Otherwise I fund the trip my self.

2 months~ ago some guy was selling jetblue vouchers for BTC. oh i checked my PMs and luckily i still have a PM i sent to the guy. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=21181 this is his profile link. at that time it was 19BTC(at that time about $18 = 1BTC) for 1 voucher.

edit: i did some quick searching and found some threads started my him.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15971.0 <-older thread

edit: found a new thread by him selling some more vouchers
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=34457.0

[wormbog]

Hmmm, BFL is worried about potential competitors posting in this thread, but they're willing to send a test board to whoever the community deems most qualified to perform a formal proof of work analysis. I guess they're really not too worried about a competitor getting their hands on this thing. If a reviewer from the community does step up they will only get the board once it's deemed ready.

That will be once the chargeback deadline for the bulk of their orders has passed.

BFL suggested that people stop ordering until the actual product's ready. That's good advice. For those of you who have already ordered, consider requesting cancellation of your pre-order and requesting your payment be refunded. Report back to the forum with their response (if you get one) and when your money is actually returned to your account. Here's what you can expect:

• No response via email or phone. (silence)
• "Trust us, the product is real. We're almost ready to ship. If you cancel now you'll miss your chance to get in on the first round of orders." (play on greed)
• "Ok, we'll refund your money. You should see it return to your account in 30-60 days." (the waiting game)
• A new person will appear on the forum saying they've got the product and it's even better than expected. But it will not be anyone you've ever heard from before. (sock puppet witness)

[DeathAndTaxes]

BFL suggested that people stop ordering until the actual product's ready. That's good advice. For those of you who have already ordered, consider requesting cancellation of your pre-order and requesting your payment be refunded.

This is very good advice.  Most likely it will be ignored and we will here the gnashing of teeth in 60 days when people get scammed.  The offer to send a test board by itself has no merit.  Actually sending the test board has merit.  Thus anyone basing their buying decision (or decision to keep pre-order) on the offer is not making a sound decision.

Granted there is the greed/fear factor.  Their website does a good job of that.  ONLY 100 AVAILABLE.  SPECIAL PRE-ORDER PRICE.  That is all the bait.  Implied message "You have to ignore everyone else and send us the moniez now or you will lose".

Granted like I said anyone who has already made up their mind is unlikely to be convinced but the quoted is good advice.

[sadpandatech]

These last 2 posts +1000

I could not believe that people did not think this was a scam from the start, esp with the link to the cock enlarger pills. Then secondly not taking basic caution. Still if anyone wants to go try to see these guys and esp if you get the guy on video tape I will be very happy to send coins.

I know where this guy lives, and he knows I know where he lives so I do not think too much more will come of this.

+

or cake if you prefer
+

[ElectricMucus]

The funny think about these PCB photos is: The I/O bandwidth bitcoin needs is absolutely pathetic even not worth mentioning. If that were actually a made product they would be very, very stupid to use such a expensive (many pins) packaging for the chips if there were ASICs inside and use it as a bitcoin miner.

[P4man]

Is it just me or was this drawn in MSpaint
http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/BitForce-Single-PCB-e1316311166812.png
Lol good job tho.. But i dont see Any metal

The upper three Grey "chips" Are drag and drop grey boxes, LOOK, SERIOUSLY, Grey Drag and Drop paint blocks!
LOOK AT IT SERIOUSLY

OMG! And the yellow ones are YELLOW! And there is a grey mesh! And look at the holes in the PCB, the perspective of the shadows dont match!

Newsflash: you are not looking at a photograph. You are looking at a 3D rendering from a pcb layout app. The chips are presented as simplified thin 3D grey rectangle boxes (whatever you call that in english), what you see are shadows. Its not made with a photorealistic rendering app, it looks exactly like a pcb123 design render. Id even bet 0.5 BTC its made with that very app.

[sadpandatech]

Newsflash: you are not looking at a photograph. You are looking at a 3D rendering from a pcb layout app. The chips are presented as thin grey rectangles, what you see are shadows. Its not made with a photorealistic rendering app, it looks exactly like a pcb123 design render. Id even bet 0.5 BTC its made with that very app.

lol, yea. Was wondering how long it would take someone to point that out. IS PCB-e1316311166812.png a default naming scructure for that software?

[P4man]

Dont know. I dont remember there being a default naming convention but Ive never used it seriously myself. Ive only seen it used.

Anyway, there are plenty of such apps, and they all produce very similar looking 3D renderings. Note that this is no proof this thing is real, if I was going to make a fake, Id probably use such a tool to produce the fake images, but lets stop this absurdity and lets just wait for this board to materialize or not.