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Author Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $500 — Butterflylabs, is it a scam?  (Read 116615 times)
zapeta
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November 26, 2011, 04:57:03 AM
 #801

Those things look sexy.

It also looks like the pre-orders sold out, and the price jumped to $699 instead of $599.
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worldinacoin
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November 26, 2011, 05:05:32 AM
 #802

I guess if they are really that good, I will slowly replace my GPUs with them, but too expensive to replace them full scale, unless you are a professional bitcoin mining outfit.  1 unit is $500, 10 units will be $5000! 
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November 26, 2011, 05:16:02 AM
 #803

Updated Web page

http://butterflylabs.com/products/
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November 26, 2011, 05:26:03 AM
 #804

What's with the etched out portion under the silk-screening?

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sadpandatech
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November 26, 2011, 05:28:51 AM
 #805

What's with the etched out portion under the silk-screening?

  Looks like a copyright was etched out. Probably would lead one to be able to inspect where the money for the project came from. *shrug*

  Edit; hard to say though, some of their other boards display 'Sep 2011' there. Posible they would have read Nov 2011 or something and maybe they did not want people to jump to conclusions about the later date. *shrug*  What do you make of it?

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
worldinacoin
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November 26, 2011, 05:37:07 AM
 #806


Looks great but at $26k kinda high! Smiley .  Would love to get one though.
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November 26, 2011, 05:51:23 AM
 #807


Looks great but at $26k kinda high! Smiley .  Would love to get one though.
http://tpbitcalc.appspot.com/?difficulty=1192497.7500&hashrate=50400.00&exchangerate=2.45&bitcoinsperblock=50.00&rigcost=26849.00&powerconsumption=890.00&powercost=0.15&investmentperiod=360

Time to generate one block   1.2   days!  I guess no pool required? Probably couldn't hurt though.
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November 26, 2011, 05:52:49 AM
 #808

I'm loving this thread, this will put and end to bitcoin. I mean scams after scams, bitcoin does show all how good we truly are as human species.


TBH the main uses of BTC for now are  Silk Road and scamming. For all I care, we could rename this forum "Scammers R us" with the amount of scammers on here. Too bad there is no live video feed or something. I am thinking they gave Inaba $5k or $10k to turn to the dark side and we get fed a ton of BS and people rush in to buy etc. this fantastic new magical unicorn technology. Maybe I am just paranoid Smiley but these scams on here are not normal scammer level; they are UBER level and they are doing it very in depth and planning etc. mybitcoin, bitcoin7 etc.
You know there *are* people who wouldn't even think of scamming, even if offered 10k.

BTC: 1CDCLDBHbAzHyYUkk1wYHPYmrtDZNhk8zf
LTC: LMS7SqZJnqzxo76iDSEua33WCyYZdjaQoE
worldinacoin
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November 26, 2011, 05:55:45 AM
 #809


Extremely tempting but 26k is not something I can fork out, maybe when my GPUs start dying I will replace them slowly with the smaller version.  But if I really have that spare cash, it seems a good deal for Black Friday Smiley
dollartrader
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November 26, 2011, 05:59:34 AM
 #810

So should this pan out, who is setting up the GLBSE company for the rig box?  Smiley
fred0
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November 26, 2011, 06:07:42 AM
 #811

So should this pan out, who is setting up the GLBSE company for the rig box?  Smiley
Well, it is in pre-order, so it must be a scam, obviously.  Seriously, I don't know if GLBSE can raise that kind of cash.  How long is the pre-order period?  It would be possible to  succeed, risk is incredible, since you really can't predict the long term price of bitcoin. A good project to do with other peoples money!
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November 26, 2011, 06:10:48 AM
 #812

So should this pan out, who is setting up the GLBSE company for the rig box?  Smiley
Well, it is in pre-order, so it must be a scam, obviously.  Seriously, I don't know is GLBSE can raise that kind of cash.  How long is the pre-order period?  It would be possible to  succeed, risk is incredible, since you really can't predict the long term price of bitcoin. A good project to do with other peoples money!

If nothing else, setting up a small farm of the smaller boxes through GLBSE isn't out of the question.
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November 26, 2011, 06:28:28 AM
 #813

I would definitely be interested for the smaller boxes in GLBSE, problem with the 26k thingy is if one is spoilt it will wipe out the entire company.
P4man
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November 26, 2011, 09:03:44 AM
 #814

@Inaba
Can you try and make some pictures in macro mode that makes the print on the asics readable? Im curious to find out what they are, even though its probably mundane like IO and USB. Id just like to confirm there are no custom asics on there other than what is perhaps under those heatsinks (still standing by my structured asic guess).

@everyone wanting to buy truckloads of thees things
Fair warning; a few months ago almost no one believed this level of performance/w was possible. Do keep in mind its entirely possible in 6 or 12 months something else will be released that blows the socks of this bitforce box. If nothing else, an asic implementation could easily achieve another order of magnitude performance/w jump. You better be breaking even on your purchase by the time that happens. I can see why people would want to take the risk of buying one or a few of these (they do look sexy) , but think twice before you spend your retirement fund on a farm of these boxes.


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November 26, 2011, 09:28:04 AM
 #815

@ the current difficulty - each box will produce about 1btc a day.
@ the current price ( lets say 3$) - it will take ... 7 months to pay for it?

assuming the power usage is what they claim the cost of elec
wont put it in the calculation.

or am I wrong?





"We are just fools. We insanely believe that we can replace one politician with another and something will really change. The ONLY possible way to achieve change is to change the very system of how government functions. Until we are prepared to do that, suck it up for your future belongs to the madness and corruption of politicians."
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P4man
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November 26, 2011, 09:35:55 AM
 #816

Why assume $3? At current prices and difficulty it will take 9.5 months
http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php?hashrate=1050&cost=600&electricity=0.15&power=20&months=12.0000&decline=1.00&blockcoins=0

Of course difficulty is likely to go up if everyone starts buying these boxes, and BTC price, well who knows.

IMO if no one else comes out with a substantially better product in the next 12-18 months, you have a fair chance of making a profit, but it its not without risk and does require some assumptions. Unlike GPUs, you will have a hard time reselling these boxes if difficulty explodes due to asics or some other breakthrough.

RandyFolds
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November 26, 2011, 09:38:28 AM
 #817

What's with the etched out portion under the silk-screening?

  Looks like a copyright was etched out. Probably would lead one to be able to inspect where the money for the project came from. *shrug*

  Edit; hard to say though, some of their other boards display 'Sep 2011' there. Posible they would have read Nov 2011 or something and maybe they did not want people to jump to conclusions about the later date. *shrug*  What do you make of it?

I make re-purposed garbage of it...who knows though...?

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P4man
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November 26, 2011, 10:02:25 AM
 #818

Yeah, assuming this is not a scam this is the only way they can do this at the price. Buy some fail or overrun chips cheap and use it for this.

Yawn. Pray tell Goat, what kind of "failed" chips could one use to achieve 1GH/s @ 20W? And what makes you think s-asic's could not?

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November 26, 2011, 11:09:51 AM
 #819

I can't see how they had this custom made.

?
Its not rocketscience.  You just download some opensource fgpaminer for altera, you pick up the phone and call Altera. You send them the code and say you want x1000 Hardcopy chips. You pay their price. You receive s-asics. Im barely simplifying.

As far as "designing" chips go, it really doesnt get any easier. By far the hardest part is what several guys on this board have already done by designing fpga miner apps (not too mention PCBs, software etc). You will have to make some minor adjustments, but the bulk of the work implementing that in a structured asic is what altera does for you. Thats the hole point of a structured asic, its literally a "hard copy" of an FPGA app, and those already exist. It only costs money, no magic involved.

BTW, I suspect BFL didnt take this easy approach, I suspect they made their own FPGA design to allow flexibility for other applications besides bitcoin mining, but you could do it like that.

Next time you may want to read up before offering $100.000 bets.

BTW, found some info on timings for Hardcopy:
http://www.altera.com/devices/asic/hardcopy-asics/about/hrd-development-methodology.html

From FPGA to working silicon in 7 weeks. No bad.

P4man
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November 26, 2011, 11:23:50 AM
 #820

So you are telling me its hard to believe a company would invest $200k in this while you would be willing to bet $100k that they did not? ROFL

For the money you claim you were willing to bet, BFL could almost produce those chip! Think about it, even if BFL had intended for this to be a scam, they could have accepted your bet and actually produced 1000 s-asics nearly for free!

Thats how clueless you are.

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