HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: up to 800GH/s

[HashFast_CL]

Yoli Evo Mining Board running at 975 MHz getting 750 GH/s

http://youtu.be/PjDF0tq5r28

http://hashfast.com/yoli-evo-at-975mhz-733gh/

Check out a screenshot of a Yoli Evo Mining Board hashing at 975 MHz and getting 750 GH/s with only a single HashFast Golden Nonce ASIC as verified in both CGMiner and as reported in the mining pool statistics:





Click here to learn more and Pre-Order a Yoli Evo Mining Board
http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

Click here to learn more and Pre-Order a Sierra Evo Mining Kit
http://hashfast.com/shop/sierraevo/

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[HashFast_CL]

HashFast BabyJet users thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426644.0

HashFast Sierra's Owners Thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=433350.0


A point of order: Conduct in this subforum
January 27, 2013, 03:36:47 PM
gmaxwell
Moderator
Hero Member

Here are some points on this subforum's ground rules— some of them are just reptition of the overall forum standards. Most of this should go without saying, but it seems a few people need some reminders.

Stay on-topic.

All threads created should be about custom mining hardware, its operation, or its production (including the companies making it or the technology involved).  Generally the subject matter should be boring— technical, procedural, dry things. We're talking about custom hardware for mining here, not civil rights or awesome rock concerts.

Within a thread all messages should pertain to the subject of the thread which is described in the thread title or original post.  Avoid tangents and especially avoid responding to tangents.  Off-topic posts may be spindled, folded, or mutilated at the moderators discretion. 

Posts should generally not make people angry. If you expect that your post will make people angry that is a sign that it may be in the wrong sub-forum. However, in some rare cases factual material about custom hardware or its vendors will make people angry. In these cases it is all the more important to be dry, factual, and to avoid speculation.

In all cases, do no harass or stalk people. Keep your behavior civil and professional.  Harassment will be ruthlessly deleted or edited until it is a mockery of the poster (in all cases edited posts will be marked accordingly). If you are in doubt about a behavior it is probably harassment. Don't do it.  If you feel you need to investigate a party that has scammed you, take it to the scam accusation sub-forum.

Feel free to provide criticism but don't belabor it. Making the same point over and over again is spam.

To avoid wasting people's time avoid bumping threads with pointless +1s, meme images, or "inb4" messages. Silence is golden. If you don't have something substantive to say, please say nothing at all.

If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware.

Cheers and happy discussing.

[xstr8guy]

Do off-the-shelf closed loop CPU liquid cooling kits fit this board without any special adapter?  Something like this... http://www.corsair.com/en-us/cpu-coolers

[xstr8guy]

Btw, sure looks like a lot of HW errors on that screencap, lol.

[Flashman]

The sheer professionalism of that site makes me eager to be a "cheustomer". 

[Melbustus]

Great!

So when is MPP being delivered for Batch-1 customers?!!?

No one cares about your new products. Batch-1 customers essentially funded the entire operation, yet HashFast has been aggressively silent on MPP delivery. We won't even ROI in $ terms without IMMEDIATE shipment of the *full* MPP obligation. Nevermind the 90%+ *LOSS* in BTC terms, even with MPP...

You guys seriously need to make this up to customers somehow if you have any intention of salvaging your now-worse-than-BFL reputation. Delivering 4x Yoli boards to Batch-1 customers as the MPP obligation might be an ok start.

[perezoso]

So when is MPP being delivered for Batch-1 customers?!!?

Not to mention that Hashfast hasn't even shipped a large part of its Batch 2 yet.

Plus the upgrade boards.

And the MPP, which you mention.

Then there's batch 3. 

And batch 4.

Well, I'd say the "Evo" customers - if there really are any folks foolish enough - can look forward to seeing their hardware sometime around Thanksgiving. US Thanksgiving.

 

[ElGabo]

I'll buy when you will have it off the shelf.

[itod]

How come HashFast_CL doesn't have a red "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" under their name? What are you people waiting? They are not going to trust-rate themselves, you have to do it.

[kevin911]

batch 2 sierra's haven't been dispatched yet and hashfast recon they will have this evo unit ready and shipped before another 2 batches + MPP in 2 months? I think not. batch 2 sierra's are now officially over a month late. I know this because I am a batch 2 sierra customer!

[RoadStress]

Man i love this American marketing again! The title says up to 800GH/s and they show 730GH/s. WTF is wrong with companies and with people?

[cedivad]

I created a Non Self Moderated copycat of this thread, in case anyone needs it.

[dbbit]

If you are able to prove that you can ship anything on time I may start to be interested.

I think your personal best so far is 3 months late, though you're back to 4 now. I'm rooting for a 3 months late March again. You can do it!

However, $6000 for 2TH is overpriced even for May... considering you can buy 2TB of Antminers today (which you will get 3 days from now!) for $8650 and mine $4000 with them before the HashFast imaginary "May" shipdate - never mind the actual shipdate based on track record.

Oh, right, the EVO draws 1650W less power than the Antminers. That's $180 more per month - mmm, still not worth waiting 1 to 5 months longer, and having to deal with HashFast "customer" service.

There's mining companies that treat their customers like customers. Bitmain & ASICMINER come to mind.
There's mining companies that treat their customers like investors (investomers?). BFL, Avalon, KNC etc.
There's mining companies that treat their customers like enemies. Actually, there's only one. HashFast has no competition in this field.

[ninjarobot]

How come HashFast_CL doesn't have a red "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" under their name? What are you people waiting? They are not going to trust-rate themselves, you have to do it.

Fixed.

@HF - I'm willing to revise my feedback once you start treating customers as customers (instead of cattle to be milked) and live up to your promises. (Deliver on time, on spec. Honor MPP commitments). But that time is not now.

[Micky25]

this sums it up pretty well:

A customer is someone who hasn't paid them yet.

Someone who HAS paid them is a victim.

[HashFast_CL]

Btw, sure looks like a lot of HW errors on that screencap, lol.

The screencap shows 3.9 million shares accepted, with a tiny 0.17% of that in HW errors.  This is perfectly normal; if you aren't getting a trivial number of HW errors you're not pushing the hardware enough.

That said, I can't wait to see how well the new 0.4 firmware/cgminer 4.0.1 platform will do with EVO boards!

[HashFast_CL]

The title says up to 800GH/s and they show 730GH/s.

With better cooling (immersion anyone?) HashFast's Golden Nonce EVO board may get up to 800GH/s.  Our test used older versions of firmware/cgminer and liquid cooling, so it obviously only represents a singular proof-of-concept, not maximum performance.

The live demo is currently running at 750GH/s:

http://setup.hashfast.com/rpi/



750GH/s is more than enough to claim the crown for The World's Fasting Bitcoin Mining ASIC.

750GH/s is at least 50% faster than Cointerra's (less than) "500GH/s" chip!   

[Micky25]

750GH/s is more than enough to claim the crown for The World's Fasting Bitcoin Mining ASIC.

Congratulations! Any plans for sharing this with the people who funded your progress? I.e. your customers. Overdue Upgrade modules and MPP?

[CurcO]

If they want to exchange my board for the EVO* then perfect if not ##### them . They did nothing for the customers other than sell them Engineering boards which where almost 3 months late and with issues (boards with faulty chips, boards that overheat , VRM that can't handle the load, etc) to then release their final product. I will only buy when we are not in pre-order@!

EVO is also a brand of Dog Food...happy meal anyone ?

[RoadStress]

The title says up to 800GH/s and they show 730GH/s.

With better cooling (immersion anyone?) HashFast's Golden Nonce EVO board may get up to 800GH/s.  Our test used older versions of firmware/cgminer and liquid cooling, so it obviously only represents a singular proof-of-concept, not maximum performance.

The live demo is currently running at 750GH/s:

http://setup.hashfast.com/rpi/



750GH/s is more than enough to claim the crown for The World's Fasting Bitcoin Mining ASIC.

750GH/s is at least 50% faster than Cointerra's (less than) "500GH/s" chip!   

I appreciate that you replied to my post, but please understand that if you are advertising 800GH/s you must show it to the public. If you are advertising something that is only possible in a certain special condition then that is false advertising. Your immersion cooling isn't something for the average user (please take note that the "average" bitcoin user is way more advanced than an "average" non-bitcoin person). If you, the creator of this hardware can't show 800GH/s then don't advertise it as 800GH/s. Consider that only less than 1% of your customers have any idea about immersion cooling. THe "average Joe" will take as granted the 800GH/s and buy accordingly.
I shouldn't teach you how to treat your customer base, but for me you are just deceiving people. Instead of advertising 800GH/s you could easily advertise it as 730GH/s plus a special 70GH/s bonus for a special group of people that could do immersion cooling. People would love more the "free" speed than the lack of it.

[HashFast_CL]

I appreciate that you replied to my post, but please understand that if you are advertising 800GH/s you must show it to the public. If you are advertising something that is only possible in a certain special condition then that is false advertising. Your immersion cooling isn't something for the average user (please take note that the "average" bitcoin user is way more advanced than an "average" non-bitcoin person). If you, the creator of this hardware can't show 800GH/s then don't advertise it as 800GH/s. Consider that only less than 1% of your customers have any idea about immersion cooling. THe "average Joe" will take as granted the 800GH/s and buy accordingly.
I shouldn't teach you how to treat your customer base, but for me you are just deceiving people. Instead of advertising 800GH/s you could easily advertise it as 730GH/s plus a special 70GH/s bonus for a special group of people that could do immersion cooling. People would love more the "free" speed than the lack of it.

Thanks for your interest in HashFast's World Record-Breaking Golden Nonce ASIC.

Immersion cooling is only one splashy, high profile way to improve on the EVO board's demonstrated performance.  

Bitcoin hardware types will no doubt impress us with with other means of improved cooling.  Please don't take something given as a mere off-hand example to be some kind of absolute alternative-excluding gospel.

The phrase "up to" is an important part of the phrase "up to 800GH/s" and should not be ignored, but rather understood in context.

No one reading the Yoli EVO description will be "deceived" because the product page at

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

clearly states

Maximum Bitcoin Mining Performance: up to 800 GH/s (with a proper cooling system)
Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/s +/- 20%

[Syke]

The phrase "up to" is an important part of the phrase "up to 800GH/s" and should not be ignored, but rather understood in context.

No one reading the Yoli EVO description will be "deceived" because the product page at

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

clearly states

Maximum Bitcoin Mining Performance: up to 800 GH/s (with a proper cooling system)
Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/s +/- 20%

Can you show the chip working at 800 GH/s?

[HashFast_CL]

The phrase "up to" is an important part of the phrase "up to 800GH/s" and should not be ignored, but rather understood in context.

No one reading the Yoli EVO description will be "deceived" because the product page at

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

clearly states

Maximum Bitcoin Mining Performance: up to 800 GH/s (with a proper cooling system)
Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/s +/- 20%

Can you show the chip working at 800 GH/s?

Sure, just lend me a tank of Novec.   

Since the chip is already doing 750GH/s with liquid cooling, isn't 800GH/s obviously possible given better heat removal?

[SolarSilver]

That said, I can't wait to see how well the new 0.4 firmware/cgminer 4.0.1 platform will do with EVO boards!

You mean the 0.4 firmware we batch #1 BBJet buyers (who got screwed by Hashfast by having 3 month late delivery) are testing for you?

The same Batch #1 BBJet buyers who still have not see any of our MPP ship even though it should have shipped together the BBJets as the MPP was calculated the 1st of Feb 2014?

So you admit the product you shipped us is not ready and we are paying the price (real money in BTC, not some psysological stress)

And your useless customer support who keeps postponing shipping replacement hardware for broken units claiming the new firmware will fix all hardware problems will solve everything?

I wish all the best to any idiot who is stupid enough to buy future products like the EVO and get royally screwed by HashFast

[ninjarobot]

The phrase "up to" is an important part of the phrase "up to 800GH/s" and should not be ignored, but rather understood in context.

No one reading the Yoli EVO description will be "deceived" because the product page at

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

clearly states

Maximum Bitcoin Mining Performance: up to 800 GH/s (with a proper cooling system)
Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/s +/- 20%

The specs are what is called 'below the fold' - you need to scroll down and depending on your monitor size many customers will not even realize it is there.

This is what the average customer sees:



Deceptive. Just because you have been able to push it to 800 for a minute in a lab using liquid nitrogen cooling or something else exotic does not mean you should give customers the impression they will be able to run at that specification. Just be honest with your customers. Don't act like a slimy car salesman.

750GH/s is more than enough to claim the crown for The World's Fasting Bitcoin Mining ASIC.

750GH/s is at least 50% faster than Cointerra's (less than) "500GH/s" chip!  

Really, is that what it is all about? Instead of this childish competitor focus, how about focusing on customers for a change?

[BeepBeep2]

The phrase "up to" is an important part of the phrase "up to 800GH/s" and should not be ignored, but rather understood in context.

No one reading the Yoli EVO description will be "deceived" because the product page at

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/

clearly states

Maximum Bitcoin Mining Performance: up to 800 GH/s (with a proper cooling system)
Typical Bitcoin Mining Performance:  675 GH/s +/- 20%

Can you show the chip working at 800 GH/s?

Sure, just lend me a tank of Novec.   

Since the chip is already doing 750GH/s with liquid cooling, isn't 800GH/s obviously possible given better heat removal?

Under a normal circumstance, maybe (probably) not.
If I have a CPU that does 4.68 GHz overclocked with liquid cooling, isn't 5 GHz obviously possible given better heat removal?
No, not obviously. Water Chillers (-20 to 20c), Phase Change (Single Stage -40c / Cascade -80c), Dry Ice, and LN2 Evaps, etc. don't really count for the general public. Also, who knows, maybe the chips have a coldbug?

[HashFast_CL]

The specs are what is called 'below the fold' - you need to scroll down and depending on your monitor size many customers will not even realize it is there.

This is what the average customer sees:



Deceptive. Just because you have been able to push it to 800 for a minute in a lab using liquid nitrogen cooling or something else exotic does not mean you should give customers the impression they will be able to run at that specification. Just be honest with your customers. Don't act like a slimy car salesman.

Thanks for the feedback.

The "average customer" isn't in the market for $19,000 worth of raw boards intended for assembly into DIY miners, but is still capable of understanding the commonly used common phrase "up to."

And no one (not even your theoretical "average customer") is going to spend $19,000 without bothering to scroll down slightly to finish reading a very short product description.

The "improved cooling" HashFast refers to isn't necessarily immersion, much less liquid nitrogen.  Maybe you still think liquid cooling is "exotic" but it's actually been mainstream for several years, and many off-the-shelf kits/components are widely available from several manufacturers at a variety of price/performance points.

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

[RoadStress]

DeathAndTaxes i think this is what you wished for. Will you go forward with your immersion cooling project?

[dropt]

Thanks for the feedback.

The "average customer" isn't in the market for $19,000 worth of raw boards intended for assembly into DIY miners, but is still capable of understanding the commonly used common phrase "up to."

And no one (not even your theoretical "average customer") is going to spend $19,000 without bothering to scroll down slightly to finish reading a very short product description.

The "improved cooling" HashFast refers to isn't necessarily immersion, much less liquid nitrogen.  Maybe you still think liquid cooling is "exotic" but it's actually been mainstream for several years, and many off-the-shelf kits/components are widely available from several manufacturers at a variety of price/performance points.

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Who cares?  HF has shown us that we can't trust them.  It doesn't matter what you say here, you're untrustworthy.  I get the impression that you don't even know if your chip can do 800GH/s with Novec, likely because you've never tried.  You're just talking out of your ass.  Further, what's the power usage of your new BS boards?  Up to 2W/GH if you can't even hit your original 0.65W/GH at 400GH? 

How about you assess stop selling pre-orders when you aren't even competent enough to fulfill your previous orders.  Why on earth would I give you any money when you've got so much late hardware to deliver when I can go elsewhere and get hardware delivered this week?

[HashFast_CL]

I get the impression that you don't even know if your chip can do 800GH/s with Novec, likely because you've never tried.  You're just talking out of your ass.  Further, what's the power usage of your new BS boards?  Up to 2W/GH if you can't even hit your original 0.65W/GH at 400GH? 

I'll ask where the "up to 800GH/s" figure comes from, but it's not a giant leap of faith to assume a board already doing 750GH/s may be capable of a measly 50GH/s additional hashing power with better firmware/drivers/cooling.

Yoli EVO doesn't use anywhere near 2W/GH.  Of course power consumption is a big issue, so I'll have exact figures soon.  Spec is 1.1W/GH +/- 20%.

HashFast originally said the Golden Nonce would do at least 400GH and that's exactly what it did.

Now we've improved the board and saying EVO will do up to 800GH, and that's what it's going to do.

Unlike some competitors we won't over-hype the specs, then miss both performance and efficiency targets by 20%.

Thanks again for your interest in HashFast's world-record-smashing EVO technology!   

[kevin911]

I get the impression that you don't even know if your chip can do 800GH/s with Novec, likely because you've never tried.  You're just talking out of your ass.  Further, what's the power usage of your new BS boards?  Up to 2W/GH if you can't even hit your original 0.65W/GH at 400GH? 

I'll ask where the "up to 800GH/s" figure comes from, but it's not a giant leap of faith to assume a board already doing 750GH/s may be capable of a measly 50GH/s additional hashing power with better firmware/drivers/cooling.

Yoli EVO doesn't use anywhere near 2W/GH.  Of course power consumption is a big issue, so I'll have exact figures soon.  Spec is 1.1W/GH +/- 20%.

HashFast originally said the Golden Nonce would do at least 400GH and that's exactly what it did.

Now we've improved the board and saying EVO will do up to 800GH, and that's what it's going to do.

Unlike some competitors we won't over-hype the specs, then miss both performance and efficiency targets by 20%.

Thanks again for your interest in HashFast's world-record-smashing EVO technology!   

hashfast cant even hit a deadline, why do we expect them to hit their "up to" speed's?
instead of developing new boards, why don't you focus on the customers you already have?
it's all false promise, until hashfast can sort out their mess, they can't be taken seriously!
where's batch 2 sierra's? so much for the order chain.

[dropt]

I'll ask where the "up to 800GH/s" figure comes from, but it's not a giant leap of faith to assume a board already doing 750GH/s may be
capable of a measly 50GH/s additional hashing power with better firmware/drivers/cooling.

You have absolutely no tangible evidence that this hardware hits 800GH/s.  You may believe, or think that it does, but that really isn't worth shit.  You've made some BS assumption and now you're trying to capitalize on it.  If you can't even hit 800GH using a cherry picked sample in a lab setting under tight control, you know damn well that the average customer isn't either.

Yoli EVO doesn't use anywhere near 2W/GH.  Of course power consumption is a big issue, so I'll have exact figures soon.  Spec is 1.1W/GH +/- 20%.

  Sure thing bud.

Now we've improved the board and saying EVO will do up to 800GH, and that's what it's going to do.

Again, HF has presented absolutely no tangible evidence that this is achievable.  Sounds like when the ASIC was first tested to 500+ GH... How many BJ owners are getting much above 400GH without it crashing five times a day?

Unlike some competitors we won't over-hype the specs, then miss both performance and efficiency targets by 20%.

HF already missed their target usage by 20%, what other misleading BS have you got for us today?  Oh that's right, that up to 800GH thing.  How about they just change that 800 to 750, or is HF so deep into their lies and deceit that they couldn't fathom being honest for a change?

Thanks again for your interest in HashFast's world-record-smashing EVO technology!   

There's no interest.  They won't be getting any of my money.

[Anddos]

Why does hashfast keep ignoring the Overdue Upgrade modules and MPP replys?

[dropt]

Why does hashfast keep ignoring the Overdue Upgrade modules and MPP replys?

I'm starting to get the feeling that there was a design flaw and a re-spin was required.  It very well could be that the units that have shipped are the first run engineering samples.  It would certainly explain why they're hardly stable.

[joshv06]

I have 12 BJ's and they've been running perfect since I've had them with no problem.

Now where is my Upgrades and MPP

[ImI]

Why does hashfast keep ignoring the Overdue Upgrade modules and MPP replys?

I'm starting to get the feeling that there was a design flaw and a re-spin was required.  It very well could be that the units that have shipped are the first run engineering samples.  It would certainly explain why they're hardly stable.

I'm starting to get the feeling that they simply decided to give a fuck about their 2013 customers and instead focus onto their future customers. That would obv mean no upgrades and MPP until 3rd or 4th quarter of 2014. If they really are going this way and are mass delivering boards to customers that ordered in 2014 before any MPP has been delivered i think they truly deserve to be sued the crap out of them and i will personally spend thousands of US$ to do so.

[jimmothy]

The specs are what is called 'below the fold' - you need to scroll down and depending on your monitor size many customers will not even realize it is there.

This is what the average customer sees:



Deceptive. Just because you have been able to push it to 800 for a minute in a lab using liquid nitrogen cooling or something else exotic does not mean you should give customers the impression they will be able to run at that specification. Just be honest with your customers. Don't act like a slimy car salesman.

Thanks for the feedback.

The "average customer" isn't in the market for $19,000 worth of raw boards intended for assembly into DIY miners, but is still capable of understanding the commonly used common phrase "up to."

And no one (not even your theoretical "average customer") is going to spend $19,000 without bothering to scroll down slightly to finish reading a very short product description.

The "improved cooling" HashFast refers to isn't necessarily immersion, much less liquid nitrogen.  Maybe you still think liquid cooling is "exotic" but it's actually been mainstream for several years, and many off-the-shelf kits/components are widely available from several manufacturers at a variety of price/performance points.

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Wow. That is bullshit if I've ever seen it.

Since when did having a larger chip mean anything? Shit efficiency means your chips will NOT be able to compensate for the rapidly rising difficulty.

Hell, even bitfury 2.5gh/s chips are more efficient.

A 28nm precision mining ASIC that hashes at four times the speed of its nearest rival

Even this statement is clearly a lie since cointerra has 400gh/s chips. Unless HF has a 1600gh/s chip I don't know about.

[Unacceptable]

The specs are what is called 'below the fold' - you need to scroll down and depending on your monitor size many customers will not even realize it is there.

This is what the average customer sees:



Deceptive. Just because you have been able to push it to 800 for a minute in a lab using liquid nitrogen cooling or something else exotic does not mean you should give customers the impression they will be able to run at that specification. Just be honest with your customers. Don't act like a slimy car salesman.

Thanks for the feedback.

The "average customer" isn't in the market for $19,000 worth of raw boards intended for assembly into DIY miners, but is still capable of understanding the commonly used common phrase "up to."

And no one (not even your theoretical "average customer") is going to spend $19,000 without bothering to scroll down slightly to finish reading a very short product description.

The "improved cooling" HashFast refers to isn't necessarily immersion, much less liquid nitrogen.  Maybe you still think liquid cooling is "exotic" but it's actually been mainstream for several years, and many off-the-shelf kits/components are widely available from several manufacturers at a variety of price/performance points.

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Wow. That is bullshit if I've ever seen it.

Since when did having a larger chip mean anything? Shit efficiency means your chips will NOT be able to compensate for the rapidly rising difficulty.

Hell, even bitfury 2.5gh/s chips are more efficient.

A 28nm precision mining ASIC that hashes at four times the speed of its nearest rival

Even this statement is clearly a lie since cointerra has 400gh/s chips. Unless HF has a 1600gh/s chip I don't know about.

Quoted for future reference 

[RickJamesBTC]

Oh good, a self moderated thread. Has hashfast shipped anything on time yet?

[dbbit]

Why does hashfast keep ignoring the Overdue Upgrade modules and MPP replys?

I'm starting to get the feeling that there was a design flaw and a re-spin was required.  It very well could be that the units that have shipped are the first run engineering samples.  It would certainly explain why they're hardly stable.

No, I have a BabyJet and it is 100% stable and works great.

There's nothing wrong with their technology, they just REALLY hate their customers.

[SolarSilver]

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Who cares about your stupid world record. Are you 7 years old or what?

The only important thing for a customer who wants to buy mining equipment is by what date you can deliver the equipment, at what cost and at what power consumption

For example the HashFast BabyJet was very competitive IF it would have been delivered on time early November 2013. But by shipping your  flagship Golden Nonce 3 months late,

http://visionman-btc.com/blogs/news/11274809-hashfast-now-offering-the-long-pole-and-the-short-end-of-the-stick

it means it's completely obsolete, even compared to near competitors who did ship inferior equipment, slower, higher power consumption but ON TIME.

If you don't understand any of these facts, why are you trolling for HashFast because even you make them look worse than they are.

Shouldn't you be in the back office trying to fix or printer or so?

As a Batch #1 HashFast customer (product delivered 3 months late, 1/4 defective), an Upgrade customer (not delivered at all, now 4 months late), a Batch #2 Sierra customer (not delivered at all, now 4 months late), a Batch #1 MPP customer (not delivered at all, now useless), I can only point out to anybody considering to even order future equipment from HashFast: Don't. Past performance has proven HashFast sells overpriced products that don't reach their promised performance and in general, the equipment is delivered so late (or not at all) that it's impossible to make any money of your initial investment back.

Please don't order from HashFast, you'll regret them

Just read the stupid drivel of their Community Liaison...

Spend your money on a company that has an actual working product, where customers don't need to prefund its development and debug/co-develop  broken firmware. And that has product on stock, not a 3 months lead time which will go over deadline, rendering the product useless.

[LDR]

Like everyone else on this form Hashfast, you are scammers until you ship what you owe. Your treatment of gmaxwell and the other preorders has been atrocious. No one believes your "world record" since you lost all credibility by screwing over some of the most prominent people around.  Its time you either pay your debts or get gox'd and hopefully disappear.

[solarion]

It doesn't matter one little bit how impressive hashfast's new products are. They've proven themselves to be untrustworthy. Vote with your coin people and stop doing business with companies that screw their customers. They've been "holding onto" 51 of my btc since last September and consistently lying about when I'd receive my product(originally supposed to be November). At this point I have zero chance of ever mining my coin back and as a result I'll never do business with them again.

[cedivad]

I'm sorry to disappoint everyone, but HF won't simply give a damn.

If they can't sell you overpriced preorders they will simple wait to have them ready and sell them as "in stock" (at an even bigger extra, obsly), mining with them in the meanwhile.

HF-side, it really can't go wrong.

[dbbit]

They've been "holding onto" 51 of my btc since last September and consistently lying about when I'd receive my product(originally supposed to be November).

They've been lying to you??? Drool!  

I WISH they would lie to me. They just absolutely ignore most of us.

At least when they're lying to you, you know that there is still somebody alive on the other side that you can go after.

[cedivad]

At least when they're lying to you, you know that there is still somebody alive on the other side that you can go after.

[bkminer]

So HashFast told me:

Your order is in Batch 3 and anticipated to ship March 31.  We know you are anxiously waiting for your order and we appreciate your patience.

If Batch 3 is only shipping on March 31st (which was the guaranteed delivery date for Batch 4) when is Batch 4 shipping? Or the Evo's pre-ordered to ship April 1st?  My order confirmation said guaranteed Feb. 15th...

I guess Batch 1 Evo's are the April Fools joke on HashFast's new customers....

[kevin911]

So HashFast told me:

Your order is in Batch 3 and anticipated to ship March 31.  We know you are anxiously waiting for your order and we appreciate your patience.

If Batch 3 is only shipping on March 31st (which was the guaranteed delivery date for Batch 4) when is Batch 4 shipping? Or the Evo's pre-ordered to ship April 1st?  My order confirmation said guaranteed Feb. 15th...

I guess Batch 1 Evo's are the April Fools joke on HashFast's new customers....

they still haven't sent out batch 2 sierra's yet! not that i know of.
If there is any batch 2 sierra customers reading this, can you confirm if hashfast have sent you any indication of when they are sending out the orders?

[solarion]

Batch 2 sierra ordered in sept. Originally scheduled for November delivery.

HF has sent me nothing save ads for their new and improved scam.

[Legend21]

Its so redicilious and very unrespectfull to discuss on this tread know back in your mind that there are a lot of problems behind hashfast. The only thing what they can do  its promoted their new product and proove that they have the fastest chip.

I mean what does that matter??,

What do you think about your paying customers(first customers)Without our money you had never develop and became on a position where you now at(Because we trust in your company first) And now you bust your first customers and let them suffer?

You should at least answer all unanwered questions, and still be clearfull to your customers.

- With MPP for batch 1
- For all your refund request from batch 1,2,3,4 ( in fiat or in btc) At least for the people asking for usd, at least fix that
- Clearly answer and not automatic answers or answers where you ignore the question
- Shipping time batch 1,2,3,4 the ones that havent ask for their refund and now still waiting

Its soo fcking rude.. broo Hashfast, remember without our pre-orders you where nowhere. You have bust us, and now we still must wait for you to wait till u start ur actions with shipping,refund and that all kind of problems?


Hashfast is really a shame.

P.S The improved callcenter/support-email where they talking about is all a lie.. they still cant answer question within 1 day like they said. Its all lie.. just not suprise. they tried to save their reputation, but its only a nonslence report so then can at least post something on facebook.

[kevin911]

it just keeps getting better.
I just posted on another page asking about batch 2 sierras, this was my reply which i think you will find interesting if you didn't already know :-
Quote from: pmorici on Today at 01:52:36 AM
Quote from: kevin911 on March 03, 2014, 11:53:04 PM
i know this is off topic but, does anyone know if any batch 2 sierra's have/are being delivered yet?
it's now over a month past its guaranteed date and starting to take the p***.

You might be interested in the IceDrill thread, they just released a audit report of their assets.  They were the largest single buyer of Hashfast Sierra units and they were supposed to be ahead of everyone with October delivery.  At any rate their report shows they have only received roughly 12% of the Sierras they ordered as of a week or two ago if that tells you anything about when you might be seeing yours...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269216.msg5462543#msg5462543

[Tikii]

P.S The improved callcenter/support-email where they talking about is all a lie.. they still cant answer question within 1 day like they said. Its all lie.. just not suprise. they tried to save their reputation, but its only a nonslence report so then can at least post something on facebook.

Their call center is complete crap. I called them in october because I was interested buying from them and I still to this day have not gotten a call back. Needless to say I did not go forward with my purchase.

[DPoS]

remember without our pre-orders you where nowhere.

whenever anyone says this, it just makes hashfast warm and fuzzy inside..  they admitted they admired the BFL model so what did you expect?  a quarter?

[cedivad]

Anyway HF_CL won. HF is all over the news. Reddit, and the forum.



And btw, this thread would be 81 messages long if it wasn't for the ones removed

[Bakal]

"always bet on ice," as one of its followers have said.

people placed their bets on HF.

now, people got iced!

I'm prepared to be deleted.

[Legend21]

Does anyone have a link to the leaked hashfast e-mail so i can reach everyone to ask and to investigate everyone, the ones that have receive or not, or have asking for refund and that kind of stuff. i will make a good list in excel so we have a good summary.

I asking for my refund, but the only thing they said, its that they will process my refund in the order they receive, i mean.. i cant get further with this kind of answer.

It cant takes days,weeks,months, i dont know what they mean by that, for me its just a trick to delay everything.

[cedivad]

Just out of curiosity, did you sign that refund and release form?

[HashFast_CL]

A point of order: Conduct in this subforum
January 27, 2013, 03:36:47 PM
gmaxwell
Moderator
Hero Member

Here are some points on this subforum's ground rules— some of them are just reptition of the overall forum standards. Most of this should go without saying, but it seems a few people need some reminders.

Stay on-topic.

All threads created should be about custom mining hardware, its operation, or its production (including the companies making it or the technology involved).  Generally the subject matter should be boring— technical, procedural, dry things. We're talking about custom hardware for mining here, not civil rights or awesome rock concerts.

Within a thread all messages should pertain to the subject of the thread which is described in the thread title or original post.  Avoid tangents and especially avoid responding to tangents.  Off-topic posts may be spindled, folded, or mutilated at the moderators discretion. 

Posts should generally not make people angry. If you expect that your post will make people angry that is a sign that it may be in the wrong sub-forum. However, in some rare cases factual material about custom hardware or its vendors will make people angry. In these cases it is all the more important to be dry, factual, and to avoid speculation.

In all cases, do no harass or stalk people. Keep your behavior civil and professional.  Harassment will be ruthlessly deleted or edited until it is a mockery of the poster (in all cases edited posts will be marked accordingly). If you are in doubt about a behavior it is probably harassment. Don't do it.  If you feel you need to investigate a party that has scammed you, take it to the scam accusation sub-forum.

Feel free to provide criticism but don't belabor it. Making the same point over and over again is spam.

To avoid wasting people's time avoid bumping threads with pointless +1s, meme images, or "inb4" messages. Silence is golden. If you don't have something substantive to say, please say nothing at all.

If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware.

Cheers and happy discussing.

[daddyfatsax]

A point of order: Conduct in this subforum
January 27, 2013, 03:36:47 PM
gmaxwell
Moderator
Hero Member

Here are some points on this subforum's ground rules— some of them are just reptition of the overall forum standards. Most of this should go without saying, but it seems a few people need some reminders.

Stay on-topic.

All threads created should be about custom mining hardware, its operation, or its production (including the companies making it or the technology involved).  Generally the subject matter should be boring— technical, procedural, dry things. We're talking about custom hardware for mining here, not civil rights or awesome rock concerts.

Within a thread all messages should pertain to the subject of the thread which is described in the thread title or original post.  Avoid tangents and especially avoid responding to tangents.  Off-topic posts may be spindled, folded, or mutilated at the moderators discretion. 

Posts should generally not make people angry. If you expect that your post will make people angry that is a sign that it may be in the wrong sub-forum. However, in some rare cases factual material about custom hardware or its vendors will make people angry. In these cases it is all the more important to be dry, factual, and to avoid speculation.

In all cases, do no harass or stalk people. Keep your behavior civil and professional.  Harassment will be ruthlessly deleted or edited until it is a mockery of the poster (in all cases edited posts will be marked accordingly). If you are in doubt about a behavior it is probably harassment. Don't do it.  If you feel you need to investigate a party that has scammed you, take it to the scam accusation sub-forum.

Feel free to provide criticism but don't belabor it. Making the same point over and over again is spam.

To avoid wasting people's time avoid bumping threads with pointless +1s, meme images, or "inb4" messages. Silence is golden. If you don't have something substantive to say, please say nothing at all.

If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware.

Cheers and happy discussing.

So we should just move this to scam accusations? You know, since it basically is.

[jjiimm_64]

So we should just move this to scam accusations? You know, since it basically is.

 I think this guy has something here.. this whole thread should be moved to the scam topic.. then everyone will be on topic!!

[HashFast_CL]

So we should just move this to scam accusations? You know, since it basically is.

 I think this guy has something here.. this whole thread should be moved to the scam topic.. then everyone will be on topic!!

Posts by an equipment manufacturer or their staff in a thread about that manufacturer are automatically on-topic regardless of their content.

Since the Moderators no longer enforce their own rule that they be kept separate, I propose we merge Scam Accusations into Custom Hardware.

/just kidding

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

[Micky25]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

diagnostic analysis: denial of reality

Is this you Ricardo?

[edgie13]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

That would be awesome, if it were true. Do you have verifiable proof? 

[HashFast_CL]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

That would be awesome, if it were true. Do you have verifiable proof? 

Yes, it's both true and awesome!  Proof is at the top of the thread, in the form of cgminer/eligius screenshots and a video of the live output.

We're setting up webcams so everyone can enjoy live streams of a 2TH Sierra EVO, the World's Fastest Bitcoin Miner.

[kevin911]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

That would be awesome, if it were true. Do you have verifiable proof? 

Yes, it's both true and awesome!  Proof is at the top of the thread, in the form of cgminer/eligius screenshots and a video of the live output.

We're setting up webcams so everyone can enjoy live streams of a 2TH Sierra EVO, the World's Fastest Bitcoin Miner.

why don't you setup a webcam that shows your current customers orders being dispatched?

[HashFast_CL]

Like everyone else on this form Hashfast, you are scammers until you ship what you owe. Your treatment of gmaxwell and the other preorders has been atrocious. No one believes your "world record" since you lost all credibility by screwing over some of the most prominent people around.  Its time you either pay your debts or get gox'd and hopefully disappear.

You are free to believe or disbelieve what you like, but a mere opinion has no bearing on the fact that HashFast's new EVO board is actually performing at 750GH/s, which is a world record and 50% faster than Cointerra's "500GH/s" (but actually 400GH/s) chip.

HashFast sent gmaxwell a refund check in early January; it was returned.

gmaxwell, if you want another refund check, please let me know.

[perezoso]

I like the irony of Hashfast_CL's signature quote, since the behavior of entities like his company will come to be cited as an important factor as to why the bitcoin space becomes fairly tightly regulated in the mid-2010s.

[jjiimm_64]

The evo looks kool.. scam I honestly hope they sell a bunch of them....  I want this company to succeed.

[cedivad]

The evo looks kool.. I honestly hope they sell a bunch of them....  I want this company to succeed.

Actually i don't give a damn about how soon they will declare bankruptcy.

[yrral]

HashFast: we are all very happy and excited for you that your new boards get 750GH.
However, we all are more excited to hear your answers to the following questions:
(questions that you have been ignoring for months)

1. When will Batch 2 finish shipping?
2. When will Batch 1 MPP start/finish shipping?
3. Are you going to honor your refund policies? (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=493435.msg5514637#msg5514637)

Answering this should take no more than a few minutes of time and will reduce the amount of "offtopic" posts in this thread.

[cedivad]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

And this, btw, is technically false. It's 4 ICs. Soldered in a single board.

[Legend21]

Yes Hashfast_CL, mr gmaxwell have refuse, so clear with it. and continue refund other people their money instead holding and guessing why he have refuse it.  There are still others waiting for their refund!!!!!!!

[itod]

A point of order: Conduct in this subforum

Yeah, you should teach us how we should conduct, you dirty little scammer.

Some people have no shame.

[HashFast_CL]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

And this, btw, is technically false. It's 4 ICs. Soldered in a single board.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-chip_module

A multi-chip module (MCM) is a specialized electronic package where multiple integrated circuits (ICs), semiconductor dies or other discrete components are packaged onto a unifying substrate, facilitating their use as a single component (as though a larger IC).


The MCM itself will often be referred to as a "chip" in designs, thus illustrating its integrated nature.

KnC, Cointerra, and HashFast all use multiple dies on a single substrate.  They are technically correct when referring to their respective MCMs as "chips."

Thanks for steering the conversation back to Custom Hardware; Scam Accusations are explicitly Off-Topic according to gmaxwell's Rules of Conduct for the subforum.   

[cedivad]

Thanks for steering the conversation back to Custom Hardware; Scam Accusations are explicitly Off-Topic according to gmaxwell's Rules of Conduct for the subforum.   

See? You smart guy. Me stupid.

[jimmothy]

HashFast: we are all very happy and excited for you that your new boards get 750GH.

No we aren't. These liquid nitrogen cooled chips are large but inefficient. 2w/gh means bitfury is twice as efficient. Die size means nothing if your chips are garbage.

I would rather have 1000 2.6gh bitfury chips than a single giant 2000 gh/s hashslow chip that requires a nuclear powerplant to power it.

[cedivad]

This thread doesn't want to reach page 5

[Transisto]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

[HashFast_CL]

A point of order: Conduct in this subforum

Yeah, you should teach us how we should conduct, you dirty little scammer.

Some people have no shame.

gmaxwell wrote the rules of conduct for this subforum.  I merely enforce them.   

[edgie13]

Hi Hashfast_CL,

I am interested in buying your new product, but the "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" under your username worries me. Please explain why you have that label. Thanks.

[jimmothy]

Hi Hashfast_CL,

I am interested in buying your new product, but the "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" under your username worries me. Please explain why you have that label. Thanks.

Pro tip:

You can click on trust and read why he was given bad ratings.

[HashFast_CL]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

[edgie13]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

Good explanation.  Now, how about explaining the bad feedback?

[RoadStress]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

I'll just leave this here: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

No idea of the speed, but i have a feeling that it will crush your chip HashFast. What will you say then?

[dropt]

Does anybody else thing HashFast has caught themselves up into a pyramid?

They don't have enough money to pay for more silicone to fulfill the Batch 2+ orders, so now they're selling another vaporware product to pay for the initial production run.

That is really the only reason I can think of that they're so quite about their intentions for their first products. There's not even promised delivery dates anymore, just silence.

We were told, sometime in November 2013 IIRC, that the B2 and MPP wafers had been ordered.

[jjiimm_64]

Does anybody else thing HashFast has caught themselves up into a pyramid?

They don't have enough money to pay for more silicone to fulfill the Batch 2+ orders, so now they're selling another vaporware product to pay for the initial production run.

That is really the only reason I can think of that they're so quite about their intentions for their first products. There's not even promised delivery dates anymore, just silence.

We were told, sometime in November 2013 IIRC, that the B2 and MPP wafers had been ordered.

My first thought when you said this is... You can order something and not have paid yet....... the order will have been canceled if not paid in  time.

[Micky25]

Now let's go back on topic and discuss how awesome it is for HashFast to get 750GH/s from a single ASIC.

I am truely happy that you obviously got back some optimism and seem to see some light on the end of this long and dark tunnel.

But, I hope you understand, that while this may be incredibly awesome for HashLast, especially after they and you went through all these setbacks, lyings, layoffs and disappointments, it just means shit for their existing customers. Which, by the way, involuntarily and forcedly financed R&D and production(?) of this awesome ASIC, which you are seemingly so proud of.

Ship out the long time overdue and long ago paid for Upgrades and MPP.

Or is it really true that HashLast has run out of money and can't deliver/produce anything without more preorder sales of virtual products?

Talk to us! Did Eduardo already set sails for the Bahamas?

[edgie13]

Hi Hashfast_CL,

I am interested in buying your new product, but the "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" under your username worries me. Please explain why you have that label. Thanks.

Pro tip:

You can click on trust and read why he was given bad ratings.

Yep, I know all about that, thanks.  I was hoping for an explanation on "why?", but straight from the donkey's horse's mouth..

[HashFast_CL]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

Good explanation.  Now, how about explaining the bad feedback?

The bad feedback is from people who are upset that I am enforcing gmaxwell's Rules of Conduct for this subforum and keeping this thread on-topic.

They want to break the rules by posting repetitive scam accusations and off-topic personal attacks, but letting this thread turn into another unmoderated troll-fest like the first one is not in the interests of HashFast's customers.  They want to discuss Custom Hardware, not listen the same old stories from the 400GH/s thread retold ad nauseam.

Using negative feedback to express dissatisfaction with a self-moderated thread is silly.  If you don't like self-moderated threads, simply don't read or post in them.

[bobsag3]

The new Hashfast box
Guess they already sold out batch 1.

[cedivad]

WTH is that?

Is it aerodynamic?

Texas Bitcoin Conference? At the house of the lion (CT)?

[bobsag3]

WTH is that?

Is it aerodynamic?

Texas Bitcoin Conference? At the house of the lion (CT)?

Thats Hashfast's newest miner supposedly. And yeah, here at the Texas BTC conference.

[cedivad]

Join Us in Texas! Live Demo of The World’s first 2 TH/s miner!
By Tim Wong In Development, Evo, Golden Nonce ASIC, News, Photography, Rig Assembly
Many years ago,  in 1999,  our CEO, Eduardo deCastro graduated with his MBA from the University of Texas at Austin….  so Austin seemed like the perfect venue for the first public demonstration of our Sierra Evo, the world’s first 2TH/s Bitcoin miner.
Join us March 5th & 6th at the Texas Bitcoin Conference! We will be mining live on the show floor with a working Sierra Evo running at over 2 TH/s!!!
Oh, by the way, our  Sierra Evo only needs  (3) of our 28nm ASICs to cross the 2 TH/s barrier!
Hook ‘em horns!

Btw, look at the scale of this image:

[Flashman]

Pfft amateurs.... should have started the Y axis at 380.

Also you can use thinner bars and a 3d effect to give optical illusion of tallness and make the difference seem greater, it's all in "Abusing graphs for n00bs 101"

[jimmothy]

Join Us in Texas! Live Demo of The World’s first 2 TH/s miner!
By Tim Wong In Development, Evo, Golden Nonce ASIC, News, Photography, Rig Assembly
Many years ago,  in 1999,  our CEO, Eduardo deCastro graduated with his MBA from the University of Texas at Austin….  so Austin seemed like the perfect venue for the first public demonstration of our Sierra Evo, the world’s first 2TH/s Bitcoin miner.
Join us March 5th & 6th at the Texas Bitcoin Conference! We will be mining live on the show floor with a working Sierra Evo running at over 2 TH/s!!!
Oh, by the way, our  Sierra Evo only needs  (3) of our 28nm ASICs to cross the 2 TH/s barrier!
Hook ‘em horns!

Btw, look at the scale of this image:

Please tell me that is not a real image.. has to be a joke.

[Easy2Mine]

Pfft amateurs.... should have started the Y axis at 380.

Also you can use thinner bars and a 3d effect to give optical illusion of tallness and make the difference seem greater, it's all in "Abusing graphs for n00bs 101"

Be carefull, your post will be deleted.
They can´t stand any form of critic or jokes about their products.

This post will also be deleted for sure.  

[HashFast_CL]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

I'll just leave this here: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

No idea of the speed, but i have a feeling that it will crush your chip HashFast. What will you say then?

Congratulations to KnC for their successful tape-out! 

Let's not compare a non-existent 20nm chip to HashFast's current 28nm chip, which is by far the fastest Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

[jimmothy]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

I'll just leave this here: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

No idea of the speed, but i have a feeling that it will crush your chip HashFast. What will you say then?

Congratulations to KnC for their successful tape-out! 

Let's not compare a non-existent 20nm chip to HashFast's current 28nm chip, which is by far the fastest Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

Let's not compare a company that actually ships hardware and doesn't breach contract multiple times to hashfast.

[dbbit]

Congratulations to KnC for their successful tape-out! 

Let's not compare a non-existent 20nm chip to HashFast's current 28nm chip, which is by far the fastest Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

I feel like you don't get it. There is nothing wrong with HashFast's technology. I have a BabyJet running right now - it works just fine.

The problem is with your utter disregard for your customers. If you actually SHIPPED the stuff you make, live would be glorious. But this is a two way street. You get money - you ship something - we say HashFast is a-ok: then you get more money... see how easy that is?


But let's ignore all previous customers for a second (you've beaten me there).

Just tell us why you think you can ship THIS one on time. Do you actually have wafers in hand? Substrates in hand? PCB's in hand?

[Entropy-uc]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!  

I'll just leave this here: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

No idea of the speed, but i have a feeling that it will crush your chip HashFast. What will you say then?

Congratulations to KnC for their successful tape-out!  

Let's not compare a non-existent 20nm chip to HashFast's current 28nm chip, which is by far the fastest Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

You really are a joker.

For the record:  My hashfast sierras promised for delivery in December are also non-existant.  Hash rate 0 Gh/s.  Cointerra's machines promised for February, arriving every day, and hashing.

[perezoso]

Holy shit... Texas Bitcoin Conference.  Austin. March 5th and 6th.  Hashfast is there?

Edit: Scratch that... they may not physically be there.  Lucky for them!

[Transisto]

HF chips are actually four dies.  I don't know about CoinTerra but the comparison is unfair and irrelevant given the context.

HashFast's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at 750GH/s.

Cointerra's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and perform at much less than 750GH/s.

KnC's chip consists of multiple dies on a singe substrate and performs at much, much less than 750GH/s.

The comparison of hardware is trivial, however the contrast in performance is striking!   

I'll just leave this here: https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-78

No idea of the speed, but i have a feeling that it will crush your chip HashFast. What will you say then?

Congratulations to KnC for their successful tape-out! 

Let's not compare a non-existent 20nm chip to HashFast's current 28nm chip, which is by far the fastest Bitcoin mining ASIC ever created.

GHS per $ delivered at X date is all what mattered.

[Flashman]

Now we've got...

Good Guy BFL, didn't promise MPP, upgrades early Monarch orders to ~250% of ordered hash.

Scumbag Hashfast, promised MPP.... *crickets*

[edgie13]

He is having a laugh at our expense: he gets paid with OUR preorder money. He is probably very aware of the disgruntled customer base but he prefers to laugh in our face by just taunting us just like BFL Josh shows up at conferences and keeps recruiting new punters.

I agree that she is taunting us. It is extremely unprofessional, but what else do you really expect from this horrible company?


HashFast_CL, where can I get detailed information about the specs for your new product? Thanks.

[ninjarobot]

What matters is shipping time, $ per GH/s and W per GH/w. In that order!

^ This. If you don't get this right, you don't have a business.

We are not here to talk. We are here to mine. The fact that I'm posting here means we have unfinished business.

[HashFast_CL]

Good new everyone!

HashFast won the race to be the first ASIC company to get 2TH out of a single 4U box!  And we only needed three chips to do it.

See it in action at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/156inKCVf2oEJgTsgQbHpdEGoLpzAupWdn

Another company promised "500GH/s" chips and "2TH/s" machines, but they were delivered 2 months late and 20% (400GH) under spec.  Of course it would be inaccurate and churlish to call them a scam for simply being late, but delivering under spec another matter.

PS  Reposting moderated posts is frowned on by the Mods; gmaxwell explicitly said:

In all cases, do no harass or stalk people.

If you are in doubt about a behavior it is probably harassment. Don't do it.  If you feel you need to investigate a party that has scammed you, take it to the scam accusation sub-forum.  Be the better man: Just because someone is a jerk that doesn't justify you becoming one.

Feel free to provide criticism but don't belabor it. Making the same point over and over again is spam.

If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware. If you are unable to control your behavior your ability to post in custom hardware will be removed in one way or another.

[itod]

Good new everyone!

HashFast won the race to be the first ASIC company to get 2TH out of a single 4U box!  And we only needed three chips to do it.

How is this important to anyone when you are not issuing refunds? Who would want to risk BTC at HashFast, even it is 20TH from a single 4U box, when you are scammers? When will you issue refunds?

[cedivad]

Updated stats are 108/176 = 61% of non-moderated messages.
Posted from asd, ref#MUziM44e9CXBDovw

[minternj]

Remember the good old days when the golden nonce was purported to be the most power efficient asic? Good times.

[CurcO]

So True now it should be consider golds fool chip.  FYI this Thread should not be called 800 gh/s but the real Hashrate 735 , lets stop with False Advertisements

[ninjarobot]

HashFast won the race to be the first ASIC company to get 2TH out of a single 4U box! 
Another company promised "500GH/s" chips and "2TH/s" machines, but they were delivered 2 months late and 20% (400GH) under spec.  Of course it would be inaccurate and churlish to call them a scam for simply being late, but delivering under spec another matter.

*Ignores customers, continues pissing match with competitors*

[HashFast_CL]

So True now it should be consider golds fool chip.  FYI this Thread should not be called 800 gh/s but the real Hashrate 735 , lets stop with False Advertisements

Did you read the OP?  It has pictures of both Eligius and cgminer reporting 750GH/s.  Yes, that's 750GH/s from ONE CHIP!!!

[jimmothy]

Repost:


My new favorite bullshit quote from hashfast:

It’s both the most powerful and the most efficient Bitcoin Mining chip in the world

Lets all take a moment to pretend bitfury, bitmain, knc, cointerra, bitmine, and dragon miners don't exist.

[cedivad]

Did you read the OP?  It has pictures of both Eligius and cgminer reporting 750GH/s.  Yes, that's 750GH/s from ONE CHIP!!!

Where else did i see a ~700GH figure on an Eligius graph that we later discovered was 390GH?
Posted from asd, ref#hJ2V4RG8hDNjKYYv

[Minor Miner]

I was promised december delivery IN DECEMBER.   I was promised the delay would be only until early January.  Unless you are here to give customers who have paid precise delivery dates for product that is months late, you should stop spamming the forums.    Fulfill your current obligations before taking on further obligations which everyone doubts you can meet.

[Minor Miner]

I was promised december delivery IN DECEMBER.   I was promised the delay would be only until early January.  Unless you are here to give customers who have paid precise delivery dates for product that is months late, you should stop spamming the forums.    Fulfill your current obligations before taking on further obligations which everyone doubts you can meet.

[Minor Miner]

I was promised december delivery IN DECEMBER.   I was promised the delay would be only until early January.  Unless you are here to give customers who have paid precise delivery dates for product that is months late, you should stop spamming the forums.    Fulfill your current obligations before taking on further obligations which everyone doubts you can meet.

[Minor Miner]

I was promised december delivery IN DECEMBER.   I was promised the delay would be only until early January.  Unless you are here to give customers who have paid precise delivery dates for product that is months late, you should stop spamming the forums.    Fulfill your current obligations before taking on further obligations which everyone doubts you can meet.

That is strange.  After HF deleted my post, it reappeared three times.   Must be a bug in the software.

[HashFast_CL]

Yesterday I set up a HashFast Sierra built with three of our Rev2 boards.  These are *not* the EVO (~750GH/s) boards but the machine is still getting around 1.5TH/s!!!

You can see it mining live on Eligius by going here

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1JyeG1Cdd2xtu22qV7XPGjR22JPkJmVvyA

and clicking the 'toggle worker details' button.  It's the one called "Rev2Sierra" of course.

It's using about 1850 Watts and is plugged into a standard outlet, along with a small PC controller.

[HashFast_CL]

That is strange.  After HF deleted my post, it reappeared three times.   Must be a bug in the software.

"Making the same point over and over again is spam. " -gmaxwell

EDIT: changed paraphrase to exact quote from gmaxwell's Rules for this Subforum

[jimmothy]

That is strange.  After HF deleted my post, it reappeared three times.   Must be a bug in the software.

"repetitve posting is spam" -gmaxwell

Seriously guys let's cut down on the spam. Hashfast has money to steal.

[gmaxwell]

Hello Hashfast, You're saying you've won the race to a 4U 2TH box in the lab, but why should I care about that when you've taken 97.95849881 and failed to live up to your contract to deliver goods by your self-specified deadline or return the funds.  Everyone here can verify for themselves that you have not refunded me: https://blockchain.info/address/1MWwwz9gpViE3u7o6Sx6huYNBrHyze8QrA

Why should anyone purchase more hardware on the basis of your lab-boasting when you haven't made good on your prior commitments?  What reason do people have to believe that you'll actually deliver these 2TH 4U devices when you have simply walked off with people's funds in the past?

What is the relevance of this product offering to the members of the forum? I'm struggling to see it.

I would remind people to not post identical things here again if they've been deleted, go bump the non-self-modderated thread instead. I know this can be hard when you can't see what has been previously deleted since such a substantial chunk of this thread has been deleted, but please make an effort to keep posts on-topic (primarily about HF's new product offering) and to not repeat posts.

[Minor Miner]

Hello Hashfast, You're saying you've won the race to a 4U 2TH box in the lab, but why should I care about that when you've taken 97.95849881 and failed to live up to your contract to deliver goods by your self-specified deadline or return the funds.  Everyone here can verify for themselves that you have not refunded me: https://blockchain.info/address/1MWwwz9gpViE3u7o6Sx6huYNBrHyze8QrA

Why should anyone purchase more hardware on the basis of your lab-boasting when you haven't made good on your prior commitments?  What reason do people have to believe that you'll actually deliver these 2TH 4U devices when you have simply walked off with people's funds in the past?

What is the relevance of this product offering to the members of the forum? I'm struggling to see it.

My point exactly.   Live up to your current failed obligations before you brag about future "accomplishments".   If HF wishes to have credibility, ship all the units that are now 3 months late and refund all the people that have legally requested refunds.   Otherwise any thing HF says will seem disingenuous.

[Minor Miner]

That is strange.  After HF deleted my post, it reappeared three times.   Must be a bug in the software.

"Making the same point over and over again is spam. " -gmaxwell
EDIT: changed paraphrase to exact quote from gmaxwell's Rules for this Subforum

An honest fact, presented over and over, and never rebutted with facts (but instead deleted) gives a lot of credence to the original post.

[HashFast_CL]

Hello Hashfast, You're saying you've won the race to a 4U 2TH box in the lab, but why should I care about that when you've taken 97.95849881 and failed to live up to your contract to deliver goods by your self-specified deadline or return the funds.  Everyone here can verify for themselves that you have not refunded me: https://blockchain.info/address/1MWwwz9gpViE3u7o6Sx6huYNBrHyze8QrA

Why should anyone purchase more hardware on the basis of your lab-boasting when you haven't made good on your prior commitments?  What reason do people have to believe that you'll actually deliver these 2TH 4U devices when you have simply walked off with people's funds in the past?

What is the relevance of this product offering to the members of the forum? I'm struggling to see it.

Hi gmaxwell,

The relevance of HashFast's EVO product is obvious; it's the highest performance Custom Hardware ever demonstrated.

We sent you a refund check; it was returned.  Maybe you need to visit your Mailbox, Etc more often?

Please let me know if you want another refund check and note that per US law, mail order refunds must be in US dollars.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note)

Federal Reserve Notes are legal tender, with the words "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private" printed on each note.

^^That means if you refuse to accept payment in dollars, your claim is invalidated and the debt extinguished.^^

I'll send you some BTC out of my own wallet if you start doing your Moderator job and banning trolls who won't stop harassing a self-moderated thread, as was done for ActiveMining, BFL, and others.

[Minor Miner]

Hello Hashfast, You're saying you've won the race to a 4U 2TH box in the lab, but why should I care about that when you've taken 97.95849881 and failed to live up to your contract to deliver goods by your self-specified deadline or return the funds.  Everyone here can verify for themselves that you have not refunded me: https://blockchain.info/address/1MWwwz9gpViE3u7o6Sx6huYNBrHyze8QrA
Why should anyone purchase more hardware on the basis of your lab-boasting when you haven't made good on your prior commitments?  What reason do people have to believe that you'll actually deliver these 2TH 4U devices when you have simply walked off with people's funds in the past?
What is the relevance of this product offering to the members of the forum? I'm struggling to see it.

Hi gmaxwell,
The relevance of HashFast's EVO product is obvious; it's the highest performance Custom Hardware ever demonstrated.

This is not true.   I have CT that are hashing faster than that right now.   You need to stay up to date on what is available in the market right now.   I am willing to sell you one if you wish to see.

[HashFast_CL]

That is strange.  After HF deleted my post, it reappeared three times.   Must be a bug in the software.

"Making the same point over and over again is spam. " -gmaxwell
EDIT: changed paraphrase to exact quote from gmaxwell's Rules for this Subforum

An honest fact, presented over and over, and never rebutted with facts (but instead deleted) gives a lot of credence to the original post.

Making the same point over and over again is spam.


If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware. If you are unable to control your behavior your ability to post in custom hardware will be removed in one way or another.

-gmaxwell, Hardware Mod

BOLD added for emphasis.

[cedivad]

I can't believe what i'm reading.
Posted from asd, ref#8rwZq8qK6e3fzs6Z

[HashFast_CL]

Hello Hashfast, You're saying you've won the race to a 4U 2TH box in the lab
What is the relevance of this product offering to the members of the forum? I'm struggling to see it.

Hi gmaxwell,
The relevance of HashFast's EVO product is obvious; it's the highest performance Custom Hardware ever demonstrated.

This is not true.   I have CT that are hashing faster than that right now.   You need to stay up to date on what is available in the market right now.   I am willing to sell you one if you wish to see.

I do try and stay up to date on what is available and would appreciate anything new you can bring to the discussion.

However, Bitcoin is about proof, not trust.  So please back up your assertion with citations, video, screenshots, etc.

As of right now, all the Cointerra has done is make 1.3TH/s boxes into 1.6TH/s boxes with new firmware, so we hear stories like

I just got mine today. It was getting only 1.3th, some of the temps were high 80c. I set it up outside to see if it would help. Now it's getting 1.6TH.

Also, HashFast's 2TH/s Sierra EVO is not "in the lab" as gmaxwell incorrectly presumes.  HashFast's 2TH/s Sierra EVO is hashing live from the Austin BTC conference in Texas:





https://twitter.com/HashFast

http://hashfast.com/worlds-first-2ths-miner/

March 6th, 2014

HashFast has debuted the world’s first working 2 TH/s Bitcoin miner, at the Texas Bitcoin Conference in Austin, Texas.

The unit in Austin has been averaging more than 2.1TH/s live at the show. What makes that all the more amazing is that it cruises at this speed on just three chips – not four or more as in competitors’ designs.

Live feed is at http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/156inKCVf2oEJgTsgQbHpdEGoLpzAupWdn, but don’t blink, the show will soon be over and the machine packed up for home.

[HashFast_CL]

I can't believe what i'm reading.
Posted from asd, ref#8rwZq8qK6e3fzs6Z

Yes, it is unbelievable that HashFast beat Cointerra to demonstrating a 2TH/s miner, especially since Cointerra advertised "500GH/s" chips and was supposedly the ASIC Dream Team.

Even more unvelievable is that HashFast's Sierra EVO only uses 3 chips to get 2TH/s, while Cointerra's uses 4 and only gets ~1.6 (if you're lucky).

What a treat to unveil our 2TH/s beast in Austin, right in Cointerra's back yard!   

[jimmothy]

How can it be the worlds first 2th miner when people have been able to reach 2th on a terraminer?

How can it be the most efficient asic when 6 companies make more efficient asics?

Blatant false advertising?


The only thing plausible is that you have the fastest hashing chip which is entirely useless with horrible efficiency.

[HashFast_CL]

tl;dr off-topic

First you claimed to have received "nothing" from HashFast.

Now you admit HashFast sent you a refund, but you refused to accept it.

Cool story bro (both versions).

[HashFast_CL]

 Live up to your current failed obligations before you brag about future "accomplishments". 
  Otherwise any thing HF says will seem disingenuous.

The 2TH/s Sierra EVO has been hashing live from the Austin BTC confab for days.

IOW, it's not a "future" accomplishment but rather an empirically proven fact of current reality.

HashFast isn't the only entity saying the 2TH/s Sierra EVO exists.  cgminer, Eligius, and hundreds of BTC confab attendees also confirm this new world record for ASIC mining.

OTOH, Cointerra's chip is still being misrepresented as "500GH/s" when it actually only gets about 400GH/s.  Even after a two month delay, they couldn't get their machines to run at the promised 2TH/s.

The only company in the world selling mining equipment that really hashes at 2TH/s is HashFast (hence our name).

[HashFast_CL]

I would remind people to not post identical things here again if they've been deleted, go bump the non-self-modderated thread instead. I know this can be hard when you can't see what has been previously deleted since such a substantial chunk of this thread has been deleted, but please make an effort to keep posts on-topic (primarily about HF's new product offering) and to not repeat posts.

Thanks gmaxwell.  I respect your moderator skills/integrity and will donate some meals to Satoshi Forest in your name.

Do I need to report trolls for reposting/harassment/off-topic or can you handle it without my input?

[CurcO]

So lets ponder this question, how many miners will go ahead and buy this VaporChip for the modest price of 19,000 (19K)      since  I can't go ahead and buy just one or two .  I think they just alienated their customer base. Also makes me think they should actually give these EVO boards to the loyal customers that bought MMP and Ad-on Boards since this would as fair deal.

[HashFast_CL]

my last two posts were deleted by thread owner which pisses me off very much.

When posts fail to respect the OP ("HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: up to 800GH/s") they are off-topic and will be moderated.

Here is some great advice gmaxwell, our intrepid Hardware subforum moderator, wrote for people like you:

Posts by an equipment manufacturer or their staff in a thread about that manufacturer are automatically on-topic regardless of their content.

I know this can be hard, but please make an effort to keep posts on-topic (primarily about HF's new product offering)

If you are unhappy about these conditions I invite you to not post in custom hardware.

If you are unable to control your behavior your ability to post in custom hardware will be removed in one way or another.

Cheers and happy discussing.

[ninjarobot]

Care to explain the Customer Liasion part of your name HashFast_CL?

Customer: People who buy your products (e.g. us)

Liasion: Liaison means communication between two or more groups, or co-operation or working together.

But by all means carry on.

[HashFast_CL]

Care to explain the Customer Liasion part of your name HashFast_CL?

Customer: People who buy your products (e.g. us)

Liasion: Liaison means communication between two or more groups, or co-operation or working together.

But by all means carry on.

I'm the Community (not "Customer") Liaison.  My focus is more on the tech (mining with HashFast ASICs) side and less on the customer support/sales (when is my XXX shipping?) tip.

HashFast execs are far too busy getting more/better boards built to spend time reading this forum and reddit, but know how important community is to an open-source project like Bitcoin.  So I keep up with the word on road and provide executive summary.  I also listen to office chatter and relate what may be disclosed back on here.

[GigaWave]

HF_CL. Instead of having flame wars, why do you focus your efforts on something beneficial, like getting HF to post some kind of regular update(daily weekly update of order dates shipped/shipping) showing what order dates are shipping. Like BFL did(As much as I hate to even mention those....I'll be too nice....shall I say, shade folks). Regular updates like that will give HF far more credibility than you can ever dream of by making pointless, perhaps.. even offense... post. Show everyone proof, not excuses. If you can't see the value in that, than I don't think HF is looking for value, they are just looking for a quick payout. Which in case it isn't obvious is != to job security.

[HashFast_CL]

HF_CL. Instead of having flame wars, why do you focus your efforts on something beneficial, like getting HF to post some kind of regular update(daily weekly update of order dates shipped/shipping) showing what order dates are shipping. Like BFL did(As much as I hate to even mention those....I'll be too nice....shall I say, shade folks). Regular updates like that will give HF far more credibility than you can ever dream of by making pointless, perhaps.. even offense... post. Show everyone proof, not excuses. If you can't see the value in that, than I don't think HF is looking for value, they are just looking for a quick payout. Which in case it isn't obvious is != to job security.

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 750GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

As I just explained one post ago

My focus is more on the tech (mining with HashFast ASICs) side and less on the customer support/sales (when is my XXX shipping?) tip.

And you are correct; we should also have another thread where the topic is "When is my HashFast Thingy shipping?" started/moderated by someone with more insight than I about order chains, supply chains, customs, etc.

Implementing your keen suggestion does fall under the scope of my Community Liaison work and I will pass it up to my superiors.  Thanks for the feedback!  

[jimmothy]

How can you even claim 800gh when you have yet to reach it?

And how can you bash another company for missing advertised specs when you missed yours as well.

Not sure the point of discussing specs. Even if hashfast had a 1600gh chip at 0.1w/gh it still wouldn't be enough for me to consider buying from you as you feel is it acceptable to change existing contracts whenever you please.

[GigaWave]

HF_CL. Instead of having flame wars, why do you focus your efforts on something beneficial, like getting HF to post some kind of regular update(daily weekly update of order dates shipped/shipping) showing what order dates are shipping. Like BFL did(As much as I hate to even mention those....I'll be too nice....shall I say, shade folks). Regular updates like that will give HF far more credibility than you can ever dream of by making pointless, perhaps.. even offense... post. Show everyone proof, not excuses. If you can't see the value in that, than I don't think HF is looking for value, they are just looking for a quick payout. Which in case it isn't obvious is != to job security.

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 800GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

If my aforementioned concerns are so "every old complaint' please reference at least two. I do my best to keep up with the pointless threads/post with more often than not worthless content, but I have not seen any such with my suggestions.

As I just explained one post ago

My focus is more on the tech (mining with HashFast ASICs) side and less on the customer support/sales (when is my XXX shipping?) tip.

And you are correct; we should also have another thread where the topic is "When is my HashFast Thingy shipping?" started/moderated by someone with more insight than I about order chains, supply chains, customs, etc.

Implementing your keen suggestion does fall under the scope of my Community Liaison work and I will pass it up to my superiors.  Thanks for the feedback!  

Don't use this forum primarly for what I'm suggesting. That is something that should be posted on HF's site. Referencing to those updates here is another thing. These forums have far to much noise/lack of moderation(by this sites moderators/thread starters)/concise info by thread starters, to distribute information in a concise manner for those kind of updates to be solely posted here.

P.S Nice to see a acknowledgement and initiative. Lets see if it actually does anything.

[HashFast_CL]

How can you even claim 800gh when you have yet to reach it?

And how can you bash another company for missing advertised specs when you missed yours as well.

Not sure the point of discussing specs. Even if hashfast had a 1600gh chip at 0.1w/gh it still wouldn't be enough for me to consider buying from you as you feel is it acceptable to change existing contracts whenever you please.

Given the EVO already runs at 750GH/s, anticipating a small additional improvement of 50GH/s is very reasonable.  The OP says "up to 800GH/s."  Please pay attention and recognize the importance of the key "up to" phrase, which modifies the "800GH/s" figure.  

This is the Custom Hardware subforum.  We are supposed to discuss things like

-HashFast ASIC specs (original 400GH/s goal met, now up to 800GH/s)
-Cointerra ASIC specs (much less than original 500GH/s target)

we aren't supposed to endlessly belabor flimsy scam accusations like

-HashFast didn't provide windfalls by refunding $100 BTCs with an equal number of $1000 Bitcoins, therefore it's a Ponzi!!11!

If nothing we do could make you consider buying from us, why are you posting here?  Batch One EVOs sold out almost instantly, so exhibiting your grudge in public hasn't had any noticeable effect.  Better get a Batch Two before they're gone!

[jimmothy]

Given the EVO already runs at 750GH/s, anticipating a small additional improvement of 50GH/s is very reasonable.  The OP says "up to 800GH/s."  Please pay attention and recognize the importance of the key "up to" phrase, which modifies the "800GH/s" figure.  

This is the Custom Hardware subforum.  We are supposed to discuss things like

-HashFast ASIC specs (original 400GH/s goal met, now up to 800GH/s)
-Cointerra ASIC specs (much less than original 500GH/s target)

we aren't supposed to endlessly belabor flimsy scam accusations like

-HashFast didn't provide windfalls by refunding $100 BTCs with an equal number of $1000 Bitcoins, therefore it's a Ponzi!!11!

If nothing we do could make you consider buying from us, why are you posting here?  Batch One EVOs sold out almost instantly, so exhibiting your grudge in public hasn't had any noticeable effect.  Better get a Batch Two before they're gone!

The thread says up to 800gh but you just said

HashFast's record-breaking new 800GH/s

Why not hashfast record breaking 750gh?

I agree it is silly to have your company act as a hedge for those who paid with $100 btcs but want a refund of $650 btcs but you specifically said refunds would be in btc. Stupid mistake on your part to agree to such a deal and not hold the btc in case of refunds.


And congrats on selling out batch 1. How many evos are we talking? 100? 1000? For all we know batch one consisted of 5 units.

[HashFast_CL]

This is the Custom Hardware subforum.  We are supposed to discuss things like

-HashFast ASIC specs (original 400GH/s goal met, now up to 800GH/s)
-Cointerra ASIC specs (much less than original 500GH/s target)

we aren't supposed to endlessly belabor flimsy scam accusations like

-HashFast didn't provide windfalls by refunding $100 BTCs with an equal number of $1000 Bitcoins, therefore it's a Ponzi!!11!

The thread says up to 800gh but you just said

HashFast's record-breaking new 800GH/s

Why not hashfast record breaking 750gh?

I agree it is silly to have your company act as a hedge for those who paid with $100 btcs but want a refund of $650 btcs

Fair enough, I'll edit the 800GH/s in that post and change it to the absolutely undisputable 750Gh/s figure (my intention was not to mislead but rather grammatical correctness).

Thanks for calling out the windfall seekers who wanted to be in a can't lose/free lunch situation at HashFast's expense.  "Silly" is one of the right words for their ridiculous expectations, but some other ones come to mind given the actions they've taken...

[HashFast_CL]

These forums have far to much noise/lack of moderation(by this sites moderators/thread starters)/concise info by thread starters, to distribute information in a concise manner for those kind of updates to be solely posted here.

P.S Nice to see a acknowledgement and initiative. Lets see if it actually does anything.

I agree about the preponderance of noise and dearth of moderation.  But this forum is too important to the BTC community to let the haters and windfall seekers achieve their goals of disruption and dilution.

We don't have to give up and accept the inevitability of threads being turned into nothing but useless rage posts, personal attacks, and flame bait.

Will you help me keep this (and other) threads cleaned up by reporting posts violating gmaxwell's Rules of Conduct?

If you enjoy discussing Bitcoin ASICs, please assist in keeping our Custom Hardware sub on-topic!

[RoadStress]

HF_CL. Instead of having flame wars, why do you focus your efforts on something beneficial, like getting HF to post some kind of regular update(daily weekly update of order dates shipped/shipping) showing what order dates are shipping. Like BFL did(As much as I hate to even mention those....I'll be too nice....shall I say, shade folks). Regular updates like that will give HF far more credibility than you can ever dream of by making pointless, perhaps.. even offense... post. Show everyone proof, not excuses. If you can't see the value in that, than I don't think HF is looking for value, they are just looking for a quick payout. Which in case it isn't obvious is != to job security.

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 750GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

Breaking records in a lab means nothing if your customers aren't getting their units.

[SolarSilver]

I agree about the preponderance of noise and dearth of moderation.  But this forum is too important to the BTC community to let the haters and windfall seekers achieve their goals of disruption and dilution.

The BTC community is too important to let it be exploited and scammed by companies like HashFast that see it as an opportunity to make a quick buck and run off with peoples money.

Your past performance (Batch #1 BBJet 3 months late, no MPP shipped, no upgrades shipped, no Batch #2 Sierras shipped) should raise all the red flags for potential buyers. Buy the new EVO board from HashFast and you are garanteed to get screwed over.

Time will tell, you can never meet any of the promises you make.

I'm happy to hear you sold out your first batch, that means you'll have plenty of BTC to refund the Batch #2 customers who have still not seen their Sierras

[bobsag3]

I agree about the preponderance of noise and dearth of moderation.  But this forum is too important to the BTC community to let the haters and windfall seekers achieve their goals of disruption and dilution.

The BTC community is too important to let it be exploited and scammed by companies like HashFast that see it as an opportunity to make a quick buck and run off with peoples money.

Your past performance (Batch #1 BBJet 3 months late, no MPP shipped, no upgrades shipped, no Batch #2 Sierras shipped) should raise all the red flags for potential buyers. Buy the new EVO board from HashFast and you are garanteed to get screwed over.

Time will tell, you can never meet any of the promises you make.

I'm happy to hear you sold out your first batch, that means you'll have plenty of BTC to refund the Batch #2 customers who have still not seen their Sierras

+1 from me. I met and saw this new machine in person, not impressed at all. It took all I had to not go up to the engineer (who couldnt stop saying how good this "new" 800gh is) and say "How about the ~20 or so orders my clients have that havent been fulfilled yet?

[bobsag3]

+1 from me. I met and saw this new machine in person, not impressed at all. It took all I had to not go up to the engineer (who couldnt stop saying how good this "new" 800gh is) and say "How about the ~20 or so orders my clients have that havent been fulfilled yet?

+1

17 (20+ units) orders here.

I'm not sure if I could refrain myself as much as you did, words or a fist would be flying from me, hats off to you.

Considering I was there as a vendor and with my partners, the only thing holding be back was professional courtesy, and didnt want to make the fantastic organizer's lives any harder. Trust me, I was not the only person there with that opinion.

[HashFast_CL]

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 750GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

Breaking records in a lab means nothing if your customers aren't getting their units.

"In a lab?"  Did you somehow manage to entirely miss the latest news from Austin?  You should check our twitter page if you want to keep up.

https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/441349358546456576

Update from the booth 34, the fastest miner on the planet just posted a 20min average of 2.179 TH/s #texasbitcoin

3:07 PM - 5 Mar 2014

Anyway, the EVO has been out of the lab for about a week, as bobsag3 confirms here:

I met and saw this new machine in person

[RoadStress]

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 750GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

Breaking records in a lab means nothing if your customers aren't getting their units.

"In a lab?"  Did you somehow manage to entirely miss the latest news from Austin?  You should check our twitter page if you want to keep up.

https://twitter.com/HashFast/status/441349358546456576

Update from the booth 34, the fastest miner on the planet just posted a 20min average of 2.179 TH/s #texasbitcoin

3:07 PM - 5 Mar 2014

Anyway, the EVO has been out of the lab for about a week, as bobsag3 confirms here:

I met and saw this new machine in person

Where is the 800GH/s mark? I don't see it in that twitter page.

And you missed my point. What's the point of YOU having 800GH/s if nobody else (your customers) can't have it?

[HashFast_CL]

And you missed my point. What's the point of YOU having 800GH/s if nobody else (your customers) can't have it?

I missed your point because it was cloaked in an untrue statement implying EVO hasn't been hashing at a widely-publicized bitcoin conference for an entire week.

We can't magically conjure unlimited numbers of EVO boards by wishing them into existence; it takes time and effort to produce them.

So, the point of HashFast having 800GH/s is that the difficult process of bringing a new technology to the public is well underway (IE the design phase is finished) and we're working very hard to make EVO scale sufficient to meet overwhelming demand.

Is "Road Stress" what makes traveling children ask 'are we there yet' over and over, as if being demanding and impatient will somehow make the car go faster?  After all, what's the point of driving 80 miles when the destination is 100 miles away?  

[btctalks123]

HF_CL. Instead of having flame wars, why do you focus your efforts on something beneficial, like getting HF to post some kind of regular update(daily weekly update of order dates shipped/shipping) showing what order dates are shipping. Like BFL did(As much as I hate to even mention those....I'll be too nice....shall I say, shade folks). Regular updates like that will give HF far more credibility than you can ever dream of by making pointless, perhaps.. even offense... post. Show everyone proof, not excuses. If you can't see the value in that, than I don't think HF is looking for value, they are just looking for a quick payout. Which in case it isn't obvious is != to job security.

This thread is intended solely for discussion of HashFast's record-breaking new 750GH/s EVO, not rehashing every old complaint from previous threads.

Breaking records in a lab means nothing if your customers aren't getting their units.

Honestly only way I see your company can gain any respect. You will have to use the money you made to send all mpp customers 2th evo just for mpp and send upgrade boards promised in November maybe if too late send 800gh upgrade board after that there will be no flame and hate its simple. If you would get out of your perspective as a hardworking engineer or promoter who is being told what to say now and really help your company by letting higher staff know that they screwed up and let them know that any normal upcoming company won't get all this hate because in any business your customers are always first the same way they brought you up, is the same way you'll come crashing down maybe even sooner. If you don't want too learn the lesson you have to spend money to make money. You will lose all that you worked for and this is only the beginning. If you really want to help instead of deleting post show it to your boss show him his company will NOT last.

[smoothie]

Well to discuss the "new ASIC", I have to say results that can be verified (especially by your customers) matter more than someone on the inside of HF touting their new "super duper hasher faster 900 cepton-decillion hash/sec asic miner".

Pointless thread aside from the self-touting ego boosting comments. 

[Unacceptable]

Soooo.............hows that 800GH miner coming ??  I need more info before I purchase!!! 

[HashFast_CL]

Well to discuss the "new ASIC", I have to say results that can be verified (especially by your customers) matter more than someone on the inside of HF touting their new "super duper hasher faster 900 cepton-decillion hash/sec asic miner".

Pointless thread aside from the self-touting ego boosting comments. 

The spectacular performance of HashFast's EVO may be verified in several ways.  You can look at the cgminer and Eligius screenshots, watch the video, and read firsthand third-party reports from the public demonstration last week in Austin.

If you haven't purchased a HashFast EVO product and have no interest in doing so, please leave this thread to those who have or may.

Batch One EVO is sold out and Batch Two EVO is selling quickly.

Why come in here and pollute a thread created for the benefit of those who disagree with your opinion?  Ego boosting or what?

Good job on the Lealeana silver coins; that was a positive contribution to the BTC/LTC community.

Trying to instigate flame wars on a thread where you literally have no business is not a positive contribution.

Please go back to what you are good at (shiny things) and stop slipping into your silly old Smoothie-the-mega-troll persona.   

[perezoso]

Sigh.  Batch 1 "sold out" instantly because it consisted of a handful of units for family and friends. Hashfast has gone full BFL.  

Unless it is self-mining, Hashfast apparently has one (1) machine that might hash at 750 m/h.  Let me repeat that.  One.

Hashfast has overdue outstanding orders and other obligations (MPP) well into the petahashes, and more broken promises than a stadium full of politicians.  Its existing customers hate the company and are suing it, but Hashfast keeps trying to find suckers to buy new equipment rather than clear its backlog.

This one machine is no more significant for Hashfast's wronged customers than its bullshit announcement that it was "shipping" on 31 December.  Hashfast shipped less than a handful of practically homemade machines but tried to generate the impression that the company had a functioning assembly line.  It did not.  It still does not.

Only a fool would order from you.

[HashFast_CL]

Unless it is self-mining, Hashfast apparently has one (1) machine that might hash at 750 m/h.  Let me repeat that.  One.

Hashfast shipped less than a handful of practically homemade machines but tried to generate the impression that the company had a functioning assembly line.  It did not.  It still does not.

"Might hash?"  Are you saying the evidence was fabricated?  Or did you overlook the OP, where Eligius/cgminer screenshots and video are clearly presented?

HashFast has a working assembly line at CIARA, an ISO9000 certified leader in assembling/testing/shipping high tech hardware.

HashFast demonstrated a working 2.1TH/s miner in Austin at last week's Bitcoin Conference.

Let me repeat that. 

HashFast demonstrated a working 2.1TH/s miner in Austin at last week's Bitcoin Conference.

In other news, Cointerra *did not* demonstrate a working 2.1TH/s miner in Austin at last week's Bitcoin Conference, or anywhere else.  Ever. 

Why don't you go bother them for falsely claiming their ~400GH/s ASIC gets "greater than 500GH/s?"   

[edgie13]

HashFast_CL,

You still haven't posted proof that your new ASIC can get up to 800GH/s.  Neither the stats nor the video in the op reach 800GH/s. Thanks.

[RoadStress]

HashFast_CL,

You still haven't posted proof that your new ASIC can get up to 800GH/s.  Neither the stats nor the video in the op reach 800GH/s. Thanks.

Also you haven't changed the subject!

[edgie13]

HashFast has a working assembly line at CIARA, an ISO9000 certified leader in assembling/testing/shipping high tech hardware.

From the 4 machines I received (3 months late), all of them had loose screws rattling around in the enclosures. Some of the BBJet boards were only attached with one screw, and hanging from the wiring harness

Quality assembly my ass

Loose screws is one thing, but one of the cases had one long black bolt in surplus, a clear mistake during the mounting of the water cooling


If Ciara is such a great leader in gettings quick out of the door, why have I not seen the Batch #1 MPP ship? Or the upgrade kits? Or the Sierras from Batch #2?

Surely Ciara can keep up with the parts you ship them?

Having a demo unit to show off at conference is not the same as having a mass produced product. So you sold out your EVO Batch #1, why is holding you back from shipping it to your eagerly awaiting customers? You have the parts....

My unit also arrived needing some assembly.  There were screws rattling around at the bottom of my case and one of the fans was on backwards. They should not put any new units up for sale until they get better quality control and ship to their existing clients.  There are people from batch 2 still waiting for their equipment.

[Micky25]

so, if I order your new product now and pay immediately, when will it be delivered?

Before or after the products I ordered and paid in September 2013? Which still didn't arrive by the way.

Scheduled delivery date of your advertised product? Simple, on topic question.

[joshv06]

so, if I order your new product now and pay immediately, when will it be delivered?

Before or after the products I ordered and paid in September 2013? Which still didn't arrive by the way.

Scheduled delivery date of your advertised product? Simple, on topic question.

Please don't

[Micky25]

I never would, thanks for your apprehension

[ninjarobot]

As of right now, all the Cointerra has done is make 1.3TH/s boxes into 1.6TH/s boxes with new firmware

Yes, it is unbelievable that HashFast beat Cointerra to demonstrating a 2TH/s miner, especially since Cointerra advertised "500GH/s" chips and was supposedly the ASIC Dream Team.

Even more unvelievable is that HashFast's Sierra EVO only uses 3 chips to get 2TH/s, while Cointerra's uses 4 and only gets ~1.6 (if you're lucky).

What a treat to unveil our 2TH/s beast in Austin, right in Cointerra's back yard!  

OTOH, Cointerra's chip is still being misrepresented as "500GH/s" when it actually only gets about 400GH/s.  Even after a two month delay, they couldn't get their machines to run at the promised 2TH/s. The only company in the world selling mining equipment that really hashes at 2TH/s is HashFast (hence our name).

True or False: CoinTerra's first ASIC's Hash-Rate is greater than 500 GH/s?

This is the Custom Hardware subforum.  We are supposed to discuss things like

-HashFast ASIC specs (original 400GH/s goal met, now up to 800GH/s)
-Cointerra ASIC specs (much less than original 500GH/s target)

In other news, Cointerra *did not* demonstrate a working 2.1TH/s miner in Austin at last week's Bitcoin Conference, or anywhere else.  Ever.  

I'm confused. Is this the Cointerra thread? Why does HF_CL keep talking about Cointerra, Cointerra, Cointerra?

I bought a HF product. Please ship it.

[klondike_bar]

there is a lot of saying 'cointerra didnt meet 500GH' while saying 'we can achieve 800GH!'

Cointerr has units in customers hands - lots of units. hashfast has a massive line of customers still waiting on the MPP (which was a protection against late delivery - ohh the irony)

They then go on to flail wildly about having a 2.1TH miner using 3 chips. That means that the miraculous 800GH chips are actually running at about 700GH, or almost 15% under spec. I could shove 20 antminers into a server cabinet and call it a 4TH machine - would that make it a better product then hashfast's pathetic 2TH?



..the answer is yes. I would have those 20 antminers in a cabinet in less than a week from today. Hashfast might ship something in a month or two or three. Obviously my 4TH antminer system is now the greatest bitcoin ASIC of all time by hashfast standards

[HashFast_CL]

there is a lot of saying 'cointerra didnt meet 500GH' while saying 'we can achieve 800GH!'

Cointerr has units in customers hands - lots of units. hashfast has a massive line of customers still waiting on the MPP (which was a protection against late delivery - ohh the irony)

They then go on to flail wildly about having a 2.1TH miner using 3 chips. That means that the miraculous 800GH chips are actually running at about 700GH, or almost 15% under spec. I could shove 20 antminers into a server cabinet and call it a 4TH machine - would that make it a better product then hashfast's pathetic 2TH?

..the answer is yes. I would have those 20 antminers in a cabinet in less than a week from today. Hashfast might ship something in a month or two or three. Obviously my 4TH antminer system is now the greatest bitcoin ASIC of all time by hashfast standards

The wild flailing (and OP) are about HashFast's new world record holding 750+ GH/s ASIC.

The 2.1TH Sierra EVO using only 3 chips is just one possible configuration and it comes in a 4U box, unlike a 4TH antminer (which would take up about 6 times as much space).

If HashFast's spec-smashing 2TH is pathetic, then what are CT's 20% power and performance misses? 

[ninjarobot]

HashFast's new world record holding 750+ GH/s ASIC.

This isn't the ASIC Olympics.

[klondike_bar]

there is a lot of saying 'cointerra didnt meet 500GH' while saying 'we can achieve 800GH!'

Cointerr has units in customers hands - lots of units. hashfast has a massive line of customers still waiting on the MPP (which was a protection against late delivery - ohh the irony)

They then go on to flail wildly about having a 2.1TH miner using 3 chips. That means that the miraculous 800GH chips are actually running at about 700GH, or almost 15% under spec. I could shove 20 antminers into a server cabinet and call it a 4TH machine - would that make it a better product then hashfast's pathetic 2TH?

..the answer is yes. I would have those 20 antminers in a cabinet in less than a week from today. Hashfast might ship something in a month or two or three. Obviously my 4TH antminer system is now the greatest bitcoin ASIC of all time by hashfast standards

The wild flailing (and OP) are about HashFast's new world record holding 750+ GH/s ASIC.

The 2.1TH Sierra EVO using only 3 chips is just one possible configuration and it comes in a 4U box, unlike a 4TH antminer (which would take up about 6 times as much space).

If HashFast's spec-smashing 2TH is pathetic, then what are CT's 20% power and performance misses? 

so now its 750GH+? You should change the thread title if you are willing to admit 800GH has not been achieved yet

my point about a 4TH antminer is not the size, its that saying your box is fastest is meaningless. Customer reviews sell a product, and right now your customers have less than they were promised and sound pretty angry about it.

again, if 3 chips got 2.1TH instead of 800*3=2.4TH, then you missed your target by 12.5%.   Might be better than CT, but your product has not been tested by a 3rd party, and it is easy to assume that in less ideal situations it may be much closer to 20% off-target.

seriously though, stop comparing to cointerra. They have done much better at assembling and shipping devices so far

[HashFast_CL]

stop comparing to cointerra. They have done much better at assembling and shipping devices so far

Not according to their own customers:

It's been a week and I can't even get an RMA for my defective [Cointerra] unit. 

I requested a refund a full 20 days ago.. i have not heard anything from [Cointerra] about it... WTF

This new firmware has made the bum January unit even more unstable, now it'll only hash at the high rate briefly before the rates tank and a reboot only gets the normal rates briefly before it tanks again. And of course this is a unit that showed up suspiciously missing the warranty stickers and missing the plug guard and with rubber feet already screwed in-I'm almost 100% sure this unit had problems during testing at cointerra.

Do you actually own CT hardware or are you only presuming to speak for those who do?

[bkminer]

Do you actually own CT hardware or are you only presuming to speak for those who do?

Why don't you stop worrying about Cointerra and worry about HashFast shipping product?

[gmaxwell]

Sold out?

While I am sad for the new bag holders, I'm happy because that means you'll be paying the refunds you owe people and shipping the months delayed products.

Right?

[klondike_bar]

stop comparing to cointerra. They have done much better at assembling and shipping devices so far

Not according to their own customers:

It's been a week and I can't even get an RMA for my defective [Cointerra] unit. 

I requested a refund a full 20 days ago.. i have not heard anything from [Cointerra] about it... WTF

This new firmware has made the bum January unit even more unstable, now it'll only hash at the high rate briefly before the rates tank and a reboot only gets the normal rates briefly before it tanks again. And of course this is a unit that showed up suspiciously missing the warranty stickers and missing the plug guard and with rubber feet already screwed in-I'm almost 100% sure this unit had problems during testing at cointerra.

Do you actually own CT hardware or are you only presuming to speak for those who do?

the only pre-order equipment i own is a bitfury. Ive been very happy to buy from in-stock bitmain since then. I am quite happy to have not pre-ordered from HF or CT.

and again - cointerra units are in the hands of buyers albeit underperforming.
hashfast units may be in the hands of buyers, but under your MPP plan its obvious that hashfast underdelivered massively by not shipping multiple units as promised

[dropt]

The wild flailing (and OP) are about HashFast's new world record holding 750+ GH/s ASIC.

The 2.1TH Sierra EVO using only 3 chips is just one possible configuration and it comes in a 4U box, unlike a 4TH antminer (which would take up about 6 times as much space).

If HashFast's spec-smashing 2TH is pathetic, then what are CT's 20% power and performance misses? 

That's all fine and dandy, with the exception of a purchase from Bitmain will arrive in 4 days.  HF?  Well, you say it'll ship in May, but we all know that's BS.  HF hasn't even shipped out units ordered late last year.  No one is going to see this "EVO" any time soon.

Honest question:  How many more coins will I mine with 2TH of S1's before I see an HF unit if I order both today?

[HashFast_CL]

Sold out?

While I am sad for the new bag holders, I'm happy because that means you'll be paying the refunds you owe people and shipping the months delayed products.

Right?

HashFast was open and honest about the reasons for our delay.  The delay was for technical reasons, not "fraud" as you falsely claim.

We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked.  Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware.

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

Because your machine was always priced US dollars, divesting yourself of the delusion you are owed an approximate 800% windfall (based on post-purchase appreciation of a temporary exchange medium provided as a convenience) may also be a good idea.

I guess your lawyer only wanted to take your money, because there's little to no chance he's never heard of 31 US Code Section 5103:

31 U.S. Code § 5103 - Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues

You refused your machine and you refused a full refund.  So you get nothing.  Nice legal maneuvering there buddy!  

[jimmothy]

Sold out?

While I am sad for the new bag holders, I'm happy because that means you'll be paying the refunds you owe people and shipping the months delayed products.

Right?

HashFast was open and honest about the reasons for our delay.  The delay was for technical reasons, not "fraud" as you falsely claim.

We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked.  Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware.

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

Because your machine was always priced US dollars, divesting yourself of the delusion you are owed an approximate 800% windfall (based on post-purchase appreciation of a temporary exchange medium provided as a convenience) may also be a good idea.

I guess your lawyer only wanted to take your money, because there's little to no chance he's never heard of 31 US Code Section 5103:

31 U.S. Code § 5103 - Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues

You refused your machine and you refused a full refund.  So you get nothing.  Nice legal maneuvering there buddy!  

As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.

You can't pick and choose which parts of the law you want to follow.

If you accept btc payments and explicitly state that all btc refunds will be returned in the original currency you cannot change your mind when it no longer benefits you.

Fun fact: as per US law, modifying a contract without both parties consent is illegal.

[RoadStress]

Sold out?

While I am sad for the new bag holders, I'm happy because that means you'll be paying the refunds you owe people and shipping the months delayed products.

Right?

HashFast was open and honest about the reasons for our delay.  The delay was for technical reasons, not "fraud" as you falsely claim.

We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked.  Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware.

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

Because your machine was always priced US dollars, divesting yourself of the delusion you are owed an approximate 800% windfall (based on post-purchase appreciation of a temporary exchange medium provided as a convenience) may also be a good idea.

I guess your lawyer only wanted to take your money, because there's little to no chance he's never heard of 31 US Code Section 5103:

31 U.S. Code § 5103 - Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues

You refused your machine and you refused a full refund.  So you get nothing.  Nice legal maneuvering there buddy!  

It wasn't fraud you say? What was the delivery deadline and when you received your first chips and then when you had your first running board?

[SolarSilver]

We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked.  Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware.

How about providing the equipment ordered for those who paid for Batch #1 customers? How about the missing MPP? How about the missing Upgrade boards. How about the lack of Sierra units? None have shipped...

How much more patient do you have to be as a Hashfast customer? More than 4 months? I don't remember 'choosing to be patient' as an option, especially in a field where timely delivery is key, as one of your company boozos is quote on video

That promises for anybody stupid enough to order from you in the future... See the signs punters, don't ever buy from Hashfast.

[JointDoctor]

Why do people even try?

HashLast is the most unprofessional company i´ve seen in my life.
They´re shit, don´t even try to talk to them because you´re only feeding the megalomaniac Eduardo.

[dropt]

It wasn't fraud you say? What was the delivery deadline and when you received your first chips and then when you had your first running board?

They knew in September they were going to receive their first Silicon in November.  It was posted in a Uniquity/HF interview in a random news article.

There's so much garbage out there when it comes to HF so I've been unlucky in finding it again, but it is out there.

[itod]

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

That's the whole point why you are all scammers @HashFast. You promised in written obligation that all refunds for the bitcoin payments will be in bitcoins. You can't deny this, your company signed under it, copies are all over the internet. Your customer doesn't have to know the law, but you knew right from the beginning you are not going to do it, you are not going to fulfill your written obligation. How do you call when someone signs under the agreement knowing he will never, ever fulfill it? I call it a scam, there's no other name for it.

Keep in mind that few months before your company started collecting payments, another US company (Avalon) issued full refunds to tens of thousand of customers all over the world. All those refunds were in Bitcoin, and that company never, ever had problems with the US legal system for doing that. So you are continuing to lie and scam claiming that something is illegal, which is not.

[cedivad]

They knew in September they were going to receive their first Silicon in November.  It was posted in a Uniquity/HF interview in a random news article.
There's so much garbage out there when it comes to HF so I've been unlucky in finding it again, but it is out there.

I really don't remember it. Are you talking about the "crashing in a wall" article? It's the only one i remember.

Gonna read that again (i have it on my sent emails, quite sure of it).
Posted from asd, ref#FgVV2ZhruU7MVczU

[RoadStress]

It wasn't fraud you say? What was the delivery deadline and when you received your first chips and then when you had your first running board?

They knew in September they were going to receive their first Silicon in November.  It was posted in a Uniquity/HF interview in a random news article.

There's so much garbage out there when it comes to HF so I've been unlucky in finding it again, but it is out there.

And they did received it in November? Can't remember.

[cedivad]

And they did received it in November? Can't remember.

12 of November.
http://hashfast.org/Eduardo_Decastro



The article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-09/bitcoin-mining-chips-gear-computing-groups-competition-heats-up#p3


Posted from asd, ref#EnTuB7OFDpKvRHc3

[Syke]

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

US law does not *require* refunds to be in US dollars. Businesses are free to "barter" for payments of services and products.

[iglasses]

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Quote
Delete my post?  FUCK YOU!!!!

More Pre order bullshit from a CO. sitting on how many hundreds of thousands of dollars of customer hardware that they are %100 hashing with.

Anyone sending them anything is crazy.  They will never deliver that hardware in a reasonable period time.

Keep your BTC

[bkminer]

Previous post quote:

a temporary exchange medium provided as a convenience

As I remember in the beginning HashCrap would ONLY accept bitcion because they had a sorry excuse that they didn't have the payment systems up.  So stop BULLSHITTING about convenience...the only convenience was to put BTC into HashFast's pockets.

[miaviator]

fuck.  I never got my batch 1 baby jet and now your peddling more miners?

[Clobered09]

As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.

Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get!  Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade.  You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt).  Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something?  I don't know where you people get your interpretations. 

[jimmothy]

As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.

Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get!  Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade.  You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt).  Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something?  I don't know where you people get your interpretations. 

Not sure what you have against me but I actually do agree with you.

My point was that hashfast argument that all refunds must be in usd is bogus. Either btc is legal tender and they are obligated to refund full payment amount in btc or it is not legal tender in which case they were breaking the supposed law by accepting btc payments in the first place.

[Clobered09]

As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.

Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get!  Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade.  You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt).  Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something?  I don't know where you people get your interpretations. 

Not sure what you have against me but I actually do agree with you.

My point was that hashfast argument that all refunds must be in usd is bogus. Either btc is legal tender and they are obligated to refund full payment amount in btc or it is not legal tender in which case they were breaking the supposed law by accepting btc payments in the first place.

Your weird defenses of your claim that Havelock is an have been a registered exchange in Panama are what I was laughing at.  I was just going through your posts, I didn't really look at Hashfasts argument.  S/he's certainly wrong that refunds MUST be in USD, but it's also not true that they are obligated to refund in btc, or at least not completely true.  They have two choices in the US (this actually varies by state, but most have adopted the relevant provisions of the UCC, so it's pretty much the same), they can refund in the medium that was provided (btc), or they can refund the USD equivalent market value of the medium at the time of tender.  The time of tender is the time at which the obligee (that's you) is in a position to accept or reject what the obligor has offered in satisfaction.  In other words, they either have to give you back the btc, or give you back the USD at current market value.  They don't get back-date.

[smoothie]

Most of the points about refunds in BTC, MPP, and delays are not being addressed by OP.

What a pathetic scammer supporter. Good job! 

[jimmothy]

As per US law, bitcoins are not legal tender and thus you are breaking the law by accepting them.

Hahaha, and here I thought your response to me on the Havelock thread was a funny as someone could get!  Legal tender is an obligation satisfaction concept in the US, it doesn't define the panoply of property you can accept in trade.  You can accept anything you wish as satisfaction of an obligation in the US, so long as it is not expressly prohibited to do so (for instance, most countries would prohibit sex, cocaine, or untaxed alcohol as payment, all the fun stuff), and you can refuse anything you want if you haven't yet incurred the obligation (a store clerk doesn't have to take your $100 in pennies in exchange for those 10 bottles of cheap vodka you want, but if you already bought those bottles on credit with the store, they have to take the $100 in pennies as satisfaction of the debt).  Is there a website somewhere that supplies people with crazy, childish concepts about the law or something?  I don't know where you people get your interpretations. 

Not sure what you have against me but I actually do agree with you.

My point was that hashfast argument that all refunds must be in usd is bogus. Either btc is legal tender and they are obligated to refund full payment amount in btc or it is not legal tender in which case they were breaking the supposed law by accepting btc payments in the first place.

Your weird defenses of your claim that Havelock is an have been a registered exchange in Panama are what I was laughing at.  I was just going through your posts, I didn't really look at Hashfasts argument.  S/he's certainly wrong that refunds MUST be in USD, but it's also not true that they are obligated to refund in btc, or at least not completely true.  They have two choices in the US (this actually varies by state, but most have adopted the relevant provisions of the UCC, so it's pretty much the same), they can refund in the medium that was provided (btc), or they can refund the USD equivalent market value of the medium at the time of tender.  The time of tender is the time at which the obligee (that's you) is in a position to accept or reject what the obligor has offered in satisfaction.  In other words, they either have to give you back the btc, or give you back the USD at current market value.  They don't get back-date.

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

[Clobered09]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

[jimmothy]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

It is no doubt a complicated legal situation. However the fact that HF promised full btc refunds and changed their mind later when the value of btc went up is without a doubt bullshit. Considering many people only ordered with hashfast because of these terms along with a supposed guaranteed refund if delays extended past dec 31 which they did.

I doubt that the US law protects btc consumers from this type of BS even though some have apparently sued BFL for their btc and won(although don't think they collected)

[Clobered09]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

It is no doubt a complicated legal situation. However the fact that HF promised full btc refunds and changed their mind later when the value of btc went up is without a doubt bullshit. Considering many people only ordered with hashfast because of these terms along with a supposed guaranteed refund if delays extended past dec 31 which they did.

I doubt that the US law protects btc consumers from this type of BS even though some have apparently sued BFL for their btc and won(although don't think they collected)

It's definitely bullshit, and that's why the law doesn't let them say "we're paying you USD value from when you first gave us the btc."  They have to pay at the current USD market value for btc if they're going to pay in USD.

[jimmothy]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

It is no doubt a complicated legal situation. However the fact that HF promised full btc refunds and changed their mind later when the value of btc went up is without a doubt bullshit. Considering many people only ordered with hashfast because of these terms along with a supposed guaranteed refund if delays extended past dec 31 which they did.

I doubt that the US law protects btc consumers from this type of BS even though some have apparently sued BFL for their btc and won(although don't think they collected)

It's definitely bullshit, and that's why the law doesn't let them say "we're paying you USD value from when you first gave us the btc."  They have to pay at the current USD market value for btc if they're going to pay in USD.

Could you point me to where the law says this?

I still think one could make a good argument for their original btc amount. If someone paid in euros and the value of euros against usd increased would they not still be entitled to a full refund of original amount of euros even if specifically stated in the contract?

[cedivad]

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

[itod]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

The key concept is bolded, parties agreed otherwise by accepting the HashFast TOS. In that TOS HashFast written themselves the obligation to refund in BTC. How can this be illegal? Why Avalon (US registered company) was not prosecuted for refunding in BTC?

[defcon23]

I can't believe what i'm reading.
Posted from asd, ref#8rwZq8qK6e3fzs6Z

same here cedivad ....   totaly incredible ... how can they propose new product and take preorders again when they failled to deliver batch one MPP  ??  

and how could they blame cointerra ?  pffffff    

  DONT BUY ANYTHING FROM HASHFAST

[cedivad]

same here cedivad ....   totaly incredible ... how can they propose new product and take preorders again when they failled to deliver batch one MPP  ??   

It must have something to do with the 15 millions they claimed to have raised back in December.
Posted from asd, ref#nJ0E2RpKe6EFyY78

[BTCInvestorPro]

same here cedivad ....   totaly incredible ... how can they propose new product and take preorders again when they failled to deliver batch one MPP  ??   

It must have something to do with the 15 millions they claimed to have raised back in December.
Posted from asd, ref#nJ0E2RpKe6EFyY78

You must mean the $15 Million they stole from customers and then wrecked their car when trying to get away by gunning it into a brick wall.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-09/bitcoin-mining-chips-gear-computing-groups-competition-heats-up#p3

[cedivad]

Yes, they have their own original way of rising VC capital.

Do you feel like a VC?
Posted from * - #wNPTUZaSa3FoXlV3

[Clobered09]

No they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

Perhaps morally so, and perhaps in some non-US jurisdictions (and maybe a state or two that has wildly different laws on contractual remedies), but in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

The key concept is bolded, parties agreed otherwise by accepting the HashFast TOS. In that TOS HashFast written themselves the obligation to refund in BTC. How can this be illegal? Why Avalon (US registered company) was not prosecuted for refunding in BTC?

The terms you have highlighted include both agree and execute, if there's been full execution, there wouldn't be any complaining, the transaction is completed.  We also don't prosecute people in the US for breach of contract.

[cedivad]

We also don't prosecute people in the US for breach of contract.

And it doesn't meant that the Executive Directors @ HashFast won't be persecuted.
Posted from * - #5LSkJWOw5qV3rCTK

[dropt]

They knew in September they were going to receive their first Silicon in November.  It was posted in a Uniquity/HF interview in a random news article.
There's so much garbage out there when it comes to HF so I've been unlucky in finding it again, but it is out there.

I really don't remember it. Are you talking about the "crashing in a wall" article? It's the only one i remember.

Gonna read that again (i have it on my sent emails, quite sure of it).
Posted from asd, ref#FgVV2ZhruU7MVczU

No, I'm not sure what the "crashing in a wall" article is.  IIRC the person who stated that Silicon was expected in Nov was a spokesman for Uniquity.  Or, rather, I did not recognize the name as one of those associated with HF.

[cedivad]

I remember the joined PR from Uniquity stating that the silicon was expected in October. And that they were ahead of what was scheduled.
Posted from * - #WVvPy6uKM7OxNvFP

[dopamine]

First sign is not to deal with this company is all the unhappy customers and undelivered products and changes to their TOS.

[MANofthePEOPLE]

Is it true that Hashfast_CL is also behind market leaders such as CTSminers and PhotonicMining?

[BTCInvestorPro]

Is it true that Hashfast_CL is also behind market leaders such as CTSminers and PhotonicMining?

No, PhotonicMining is way to well done to be related to HashFast their website scrolls for starters and it is a creative scam.  HashFast is just a BFL scam clone ripoff.

[perezoso]

Is it true that Hashfast_CL is also behind market leaders such as CTSminers and PhotonicMining?

No, PhotonicMining is way to well done to be related to HashFast their website scrolls for starters and it is a creative scam.  HashFast is just a BFL scam clone ripoff.

Stop insulting Josh.  He may be a scammer, but he's way smarter and his company has been way more successful than Hashfast. 

[HashFast_CL]

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

I'd like to propose a new drinking game for the forum.

Everytime cedivad comes on here and mentions his lawyer, you take a shot.

If cedivad mentions his lawyer *and* boasts about his overweening absolute confidence in a court victory, you take two shots.

If cedivad says something on-topic (IE about HashFast's 750GH/s EVO) take three shots, but don't worry because that *never* happens!   

[HashFast_CL]

So you guys won't break laws, but you WILL openly lie to your customers to lure them in, trap them and not allow them to get a refund per your own companies words PRIOR to purchasing?

We've provided refunds too all Batch 1 customers who asked.  Most choose to be patient and have received their hardware.

As per US law, mail order refunds are in US dollars.  Please do not maintain the unreasonable expectation that we're going to break that law.

No, you have NOT refunded all Batch 1 orders.

Still awaiting my full BTC refund per this email below:

Received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

Note the date on that is Aug 16 2013.  Since then, BTC/USD has fluctuated by ~800%.  HashFast does not owe you an 800% windfall, and no judge or arbitrator is going to award you one.

Build a bridge and get over it.

[HashFast_CL]

If cedivad mentions his lawyer *and* boasts about his overweening absolute confidence in a court victory, you take two shots.

Court? You are such an ignorant. The contract you forced us into says arbitration. It's Morici that will bring you in court and win.

Don't worry -  i will be there with kilograms of popcorns. Yeah, kilograms, you know what a kilogram is, right? It's one thousand grams.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #cghOwf2wXMlON4tQ

"Forced?"  Who "forced" you into the ToS?  AFAIK they were entirely voluntary and you were free to agree or disagree to comply with them.

"...court and win..."

OK!  Everybody drink!

[SolarSilver]

OK!  Everybody drink!

Ah, have you shipped any RMA BBJet units? BBJet MPP? Upgrade kits? Sierras? Sierra MPP?

Nope.

No drink for you

[Flashman]

Note the date on that is Aug 16 2013.  Since then, BTC/USD has fluctuated by ~800%.  HashFast does not owe you an 800% windfall, and no judge or arbitrator is going to award you one.

Build a bridge and get over it.

Note Hashfast claims right to violate any past promise with no sense of shame. Promise made seconds ago? Tick tock, invalid already.


Now if I'd dropped a quarter ounce wedding ring off at a jeweller for sizing, they said it would be ready in "two weeks" and by the end of the month gold had gone to $10,000 an ounce, I don't think a court in the land would see their "point" that you "only" left a 3 or 4 hundred dollar ring with them, and they shouldn't now "owe" you a $2500 one.

[itod]

Note the date on that is Aug 16 2013.  Since then, BTC/USD has fluctuated by ~800%.  HashFast does not owe you an 800% windfall, and no judge or arbitrator is going to award you one.

Build a bridge and get over it.

Note Hashfast claims right to violate any past promise with no sense of shame. Promise made seconds ago? Tick tock, invalid already.


Now if I'd dropped a quarter ounce wedding ring off at a jeweller for sizing, they said it would be ready in "two weeks" and by the end of the month gold had gone to $10,000 an ounce, I don't think a court in the land would see their "point" that you "only" left a 3 or 4 hundred dollar ring with them, and they shouldn't now "owe" you a $2500 one.

Especially if they signed the agreement to return gold to you if they don't manage to size the ring.

[cedivad]

I'm quite sure that they have either the capital to pay the legal bills or the know how to build bitcoin printing machines, so i don't think it to be the case.

The point is that they sold $15m until December, and they want to repeat the miracle.

We are the only thing between them and another $15m in sales.

Maybe more, since that this time they looks like to have working hardware.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #DfuNqfsz9hzPWQyq

[HashFast_CL]

Note the date on that is Aug 16 2013.  Since then, BTC/USD has fluctuated by ~800%.  HashFast does not owe you an 800% windfall, and no judge or arbitrator is going to award you one.

Build a bridge and get over it.

Note Hashfast claims right to violate any past promise with no sense of shame. Promise made seconds ago? Tick tock, invalid already.


Now if I'd dropped a quarter ounce wedding ring off at a jeweller for sizing, they said it would be ready in "two weeks" and by the end of the month gold had gone to $10,000 an ounce, I don't think a court in the land would see their "point" that you "only" left a 3 or 4 hundred dollar ring with them, and they shouldn't now "owe" you a $2500 one.

Especially if they signed the agreement to return gold to you if they don't manage to size the ring.

Bad analogy.  HashFast ASICs are not made out of sized Bitcoins.  Bitcoins payed to HashFast were instantly changed into USD by BitPay.

Sorry to all those feverently wishing for Santa HashFast to bring them a pony named Windfall.   

[miaviator]

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

I'd like to propose a new drinking game for the forum.

Everytime cedivad comes on here and mentions his lawyer, you take a shot.

If cedivad mentions his lawyer *and* boasts about his overweening absolute confidence in a court victory, you take two shots.

If cedivad says something on-topic (IE about HashFast's 750GH/s EVO) take three shots, but don't worry because that *never* happens!   

shut up and ship the batch 2 units
nobody want to hear your bullshit sales verbiage, evo - evolution from what? ZERO?

Back of the line.

I want my batch 1 before you get your batch 2.

[yxt]

sorry my fault

[bkminer]

... evo - evolution from what? ZERO?

Actually I think it's evolution TO Zero!

[ninjarobot]

To even suggest that customers asking for a refund of the original payment in BTC are opportunists looking for a windfall is an insult.

Are you going to reply to that consumer compilant?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #HmO9DQ79J9kvCP5q

No I won't because it won't go anywhere. The complaint triggered a letter to HF to see if the complaint could be resolved between the company (HF) and consumer (me). Because HF went the legal route that option is now off the table. The Department of Justice in the State of California is prohibited by law from representing individual citizen's legal interests in civil matters.

They will retain my customer complaint and the response on behalf of HF by Zuber Lawler & Del Duca in case legal action is taken against HF by their office in the future. In that case the complaint can be used as evidentiary material and provide vital documentation for use on behalf of California consumer's interests. (at least according to the cover letter)

[Airwhale]

Hashfast_CL,

Thank you for putting this product to the forums attention.  However,  I'd need to have the following answers,  before I'd even consider your product.

1) You seem to acknowledge that other members of your team did promise that if refunds had to be payed,  it would be payed in the currency,  and amount of payment.  This allowed customers to hedge their risk against Bitcoin massively rising and Hashfast being late.

Now that both of these things have happened,  Hashfast seems to be trying to go back on this promise,  and, to add insult to injury,  seems to be accusing customers of expecting something unresonable when they try to hold hashfast to their word.  After this,  how can I expect to believe anything you say?

One would expect that Hashfast,  making these promises,  would hedge in some way,  either through special situations insurance or more traditional hedging, as is common in companies who make such promises with commodities or who do business in multiple currencies.  Did this not happen?  How could you make these promises if you did not insure your ability to keep them?  Again,  how can I trust any promises you make now?

2) Hashfast seems to be behind in shipping.  Will MPP shipments be delivered before or after these batches?  Will hashfast be able to deliver previous orders and these new orders on time?

3)Why do you believe that your product will produce a higher rate of return than Antminers? From my math,  it seems like the Antminers are much more profitable,  unless you are really, really concerned about power usage.  An Antminer bought today will have returned about 75% of what you pay for it before your product even ships.

4) Are terms of sale binding at the time of sale?  Or can you guys retroactively change them?

[gmaxwell]

Bad analogy.  HashFast ASICs are not made out of sized Bitcoins.  Bitcoins payed to HashFast were instantly changed into USD by BitPay.

I, and many other people, did not pay you via Bitpay.  I specifically raised the issue of some past vendors apparently taking funds waiting for the price of Bitcoin to rise and then "refunding" the past USD value (or otherwise, if the price did not rise— acquiring product) and was assured that hashfast would protect against this, a commitment which was later supported in HF's contract, and public communications by your representatives here.

This and other now apparently empty commitments like an October delivery and actually useful MPP made HashFast's 4-5x high price per GH than CoinTerra's still seem remotely competitive.  Without these representations I (and I assume many others) would not have purchased at all and certainly not at your prices, so much so that people sought out to double and triple confirm them directly with your staff and founders.  Considering your claims (backed up by documents filed with the state) of being funded by investors and not pre-orders the prospect of you holding coins (or other methods of hedging) to make good on refund promises seemed completely realistic.

The specific coins I paid you ended up at https://blockchain.info/address/1KFrqkEGy6Yq7X4SYCbYoj8HEwfbWVUDJ9 which is not under Bitpay's control.

[HashFast_CL]

Bad analogy.  HashFast ASICs are not made out of sized Bitcoins.  Bitcoins payed to HashFast were instantly changed into USD by BitPay.

I, and many other people, did not pay you via Bitpay.

That's nice, but the principles are the same.  Your coins were changed to fiat in order to build your machine, which was priced in USD.  If Bitcoin went to $1.00 you would demand USD and scoff at BTC parity.  If Bitcoin went to $1,000,000 it would be even more obvious you expect a pony named windfall to soothe your buyer's remorse.

Please ask cedivad to stop reposting deleted messages.  He's already made a hater thread (and site!) to preserve his precious hatings; no need to keep spamming them here.

[dopamine]

Cant wait for the courts to favor the customers and demand 100% refund as per TOS that hashfast has created. And a potetional customer asking real questions about MMP and past batches that have failed to deliver = EPIC FAIL. now delete this post as fast as u can again. Scamfast

[gmaxwell]

That's nice, but the principles are the same.  Your coins were changed to fiat in order to build your machine, which was priced in USD.  If Bitcoin went to $1.00 you would demand USD and scoff at BTC parity.  If Bitcoin went to $1,000,000 it would be even more obvious you expect a pony named windfall to soothe your buyer's remorse.

We had an explicit contract. The contract specified how this would be handled. This understanding was also directly confirmed with your staff.  Had Bitcoin went to $1 I would join with you in telling people under that contract who were looking for the USD price to stuff it.   My appreciation for your concern about buyers remorse is why I found the Dec 31st deadline acceptable in light of the Oct 20th advertised ship date— you didn't want the risk of people selectively canceling hardware based on how the recent price movements went.

There is no "windfall" involved here. You committed to specific terms, ones which were necessary at the prices your were charging to make your products commercially interesting. As your own founders had pointed out: You were selling a device to mine Bitcoin. If it mines less bitcoin then it costs then it is not a good buy. The construction of your contract was the only way to assure that your product wouldn't be a _massive_ loss for its buyers in the event that you failed to live up to your delivery promises, as you did. It was furthermore reasonable in light of your claims of using investor funds to finance your operation, as you could secure yourself against the risk while locking in the sales by simply setting the funds aside.

You still have not answered my questions— Do you or do you not intend to honor your clearly established contract with me with requires you to refund the Bitcoin paid?   You have still not responded to any of my certified letters.

[Micky25]

HF: Why not just commit you made an error and apologize? Instead of squirming around the truth like a dying worm.

EDIT: typo

[edgie13]

HF: Why not just commit you made an error and appologize? Instead of squirming around the truth like a dying worm.

I don't think that she is ever going to apologize. 

[joshv06]

Is anyone having problems with the HF phone number?

[cedivad]

Is anyone having problems with the HF phone number?

Yes, it never worked for me.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #FzXSxlPfQSwAu6FJ

[HashFast_CL]

Cant wait for the courts to favor the customers and demand 100% refund as per TOS that hashfast has created. And a potetional customer asking real questions about MMP and past batches that have failed to deliver = EPIC FAIL. now delete this post as fast as u can again. Scamfast

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

No part of the TOS (regardless of gmaxwell's delusions) provides for a ~600% windfall in the event of massive BTC appreciation.

No court is going to award such a windfall, so you'll be waiting a very long time.

[Syke]

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

105% of BTC97.95849881 is BTC102.856423751. When is HashFash sending gmaxwell BTC102.856423751 refund?

[gmaxwell]

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

Offered and paid out?  What are you talking about? You have absolutely not refunded me. I wish it were so, I certainly do not enjoy the current state of affairs.

[SolarSilver]

Cant wait for the courts to favor the customers and demand 100% refund as per TOS that hashfast has created. And a potetional customer asking real questions about MMP and past batches that have failed to deliver = EPIC FAIL. now delete this post as fast as u can again. Scamfast

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

Fine, where do I apply?

You still owe me the MPP one the Bach #1, The upgrade kits, the Sierras and the MPP for the Sierras. It's been over 6 weeks I've even heard anything from Hashfast

Where do I apply for a 105% refund and when will you pay it out?

[cedivad]

Tell me, HF_CL, how do you plan to compete?

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140314135446510cxXNeYAy06E5
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #QfBWvbDBRQkVDZna

[RoadStress]

Cant wait for the courts to favor the customers and demand 100% refund as per TOS that hashfast has created. And a potetional customer asking real questions about MMP and past batches that have failed to deliver = EPIC FAIL. now delete this post as fast as u can again. Scamfast

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

No part of the TOS (regardless of gmaxwell's delusions) provides for a ~600% windfall in the event of massive BTC appreciation.

No court is going to award such a windfall, so you'll be waiting a very long time.

Maybe the TOS doesn't provide the windfall, but when people have e-mail from hashfast saying that they will be refunded in bitcoins then all your arguments go down the hole. TOS is TOS and e-mail promises were plain and straight LIES. How can you defend the bitcoin refunds from the e-mails?

[HashFast_CL]

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

105% of BTC97.95849881 is BTC102.856423751. When is HashFash sending gmaxwell BTC102.856423751 refund?

That wouldn't be a refund, that would be a windfall.  Ain't gonna happen.

[HashFast_CL]

HashFast already offered and paid out 105% refunds.

Offered and paid out?  What are you talking about? You have absolutely not refunded me. I wish it were so, I certainly do not enjoy the current state of affairs.

You already admitted to receiving and returning a check for 105% of the purchase price.

If you really think a court is actually going to give you a $60,000 pony named Windfall, get a lawyer.

But you know that's absurd, which is why you've not done so.

Anyway, please ask cedivad and the others to stop edit-warring moderated posts.

If you won't enforce your own rules for this subforum, maybe it's time to step down and let someone more capable take over.

EDIT: Because cedivad is being allowed to break the rules for self-moderated threads, I'll simply lock this one when he is online until the mods give him a warning/time-out/banhammer.

[HashFast_CL]

Once again, the only reason this thread is locked is because cedavid and others are spamming it.

This is a clear violation of the message they get ever time I delete their hate/rage/troll posts.

If the mods would simply enforce the rules for this subforum, it wouldn't be a problem.  But they don't, so it is.

Sorry to all who wish to post here!

[gmaxwell]

So, just to be completely clear— You are, in fact, refusing to refund my payment?

I want to be complete clear on this because you have ignored every certified letter I (and apparently other people have sent you) and you seem to also be saying that you already have— which is entirely untrue. You have not refunded me in any way shape or form, the only response I've received from you at all has been the taunting, insults, and deletion notices here— plus some crazy settlement for a fraction of what I'm out due to your incompetent or deceptive business practices: I am beginning to lean towards deceptive considering your apparent complete lack of interest in seeking a mutually agreeable resolution.

You continue to have an obligation according to our contract to refund my payment after your failure to deliver by the very lenient deadline which you specified. You have ignored all my private efforts to resolve the matter and not responded to any of my communication except here in public. Obviously very few people are going to do business with you with you screwing over people like this. You've claimed that your new pre-orders were flying off the virtual shelves— and maybe there really are enough suckers out there— but I'd guess if you actually were selling product you'd actually be able to make more deliveries and refund some of the people you've screwed over and left completely in the lurch.

[HashFast_CL]

So, just to be completely clear— You are, in fact, refusing to refund my payment?

I want to be complete clear on this because you have ignored every certified letter I (and apparently other people have sent you) and you seem to also be saying that you already have— which is entirely untrue. You have not refunded me in any way shape or form, the only response I've received from you at all has been the taunting, insults, and deletion notices here— plus some crazy settlement for a fraction of what I'm out due to your incompetent or deceptive business practices: I am beginning to lean towards deceptive considering your apparent complete lack of interest in seeking a mutually agreeable resolution.

You continue to have an obligation according to our contract to refund my payment after your failure to deliver by the very lenient deadline which you specified. You have ignored all my private efforts to resolve the matter and not responded to any of my communication except here in public. Obviously very few people are going to do business with you with you screwing over people like this. You've claimed that your new pre-orders were flying off the virtual shelves— and maybe there really are enough suckers out there— but I'd guess if you actually were selling product you'd actually be able to make more deliveries and refund some of the people you've screwed over and left completely in the lurch.

Let me be completely clear: HashFast sent you a 105% refund, which you admit to returning because you feel entitled to a ~600% windfall based on nothing more than post-purchase appreciation of your chosen payment medium.

You aren't going to get a windfall, no matter how long you pretend to be incapable of understanding the concept of Legal Tender.  You know this is true, which explains your failure to get a lawyer.  Good job wasting taxpayer money by going the legal route via a complaint to the state of California.   

I see you used your moderator powers to unlock the thread and have the last word.  Very nice; did you also use your mod powers to ask cedivad to stop spamming us with re-posts?  Your own rules say edit-warring moderated threads is not acceptable...

[midnightmagic]

It would have been nice to have received 105% of your evaluation of the refund total; instead, by HashFast math I am out somewhere in the neighbourhood of 20%–even denominated in the fiat-based refund you illegally attempted to change our contract to.

[HashFast_CL]

cedivad is offline so the thread is now unlocked.

The reason for introducing the legal concept of a 'windfall' is so observers will not be mislead by those falsely claiming HashFast hasn't provided full refunds for the small number of Batch 1 customers who requested them.

It's important to note the distinction between a full 105% refund of the USD our machines have always been priced in versus a windfall (in the form of getting back an equal number of ~$600 BTC for the ~$100 BTC which some customers used to buy ASICs).

HashFast has been open and honest regarding the technical reasons for the delay.

Others have been deceitful and dishonest by trying to use the delay as an excuse to demand a windfall.  Some go so far as to make up lies about HashFast intentionally delaying shipments so we may mine with customer equipment!

Their attempts to disrupt this thread and drive away business, just because they have not been granted a windfall at HashFast's expense, amount to extortion.

[Micky25]

disrupt this thread and drive away business.

what kind of business are you talking about? I'm still waiting for goods I ordered and paid for in September 2013. What kind of business is this? Bullshit business?

[yxt]

... to ask cedivad to stop spamming us with re-posts?  Your own rules say edit-warring moderated threads is not acceptable...

you scammed much people here and now complaining about they spamming your thread because you go silence and nobody know
when/if you ship something
seriously?

HashFast has been open and honest regarding the technical reasons for the delay.

bullshit!

You are behind your deadline and I have NO info if/when you will ship my units.

stop your PR chitchat and post an update on shipping ETA

[cedivad]

Btw, if you don't see me online it's just because the user experience on Bitcointa.lk is just way better than the one on Bitcointalk.org. And yes, i took a pause, i admit it.

Btw #2, i really don't care if you lock the thread and you try to turn the community against me because i'm supposedly "responsable" for it.

Good luck with that.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #6y4hADKWFSclmeI7

[Syke]

cedivad is offline so the thread is now unlocked.

The reason for introducing the legal concept of a 'windfall' is so observers will not be mislead by those falsely claiming HashFast hasn't provided full refunds for the small number of Batch 1 customers who requested them.

Doesn't matter if you call it a "windfall" or not, BTC refunds for BTC purchases were the original agreement by HashFast:

Received: by 10.194.138.199 with SMTP id qs7csp90853wjb;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.236.45.102 with SMTP id o66mr196684yhb.13.1376696316262;
        Fri, 16 Aug 2013 16:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
Return-Path: <bitpaysupport@hashfast.com>

Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

[HashFast_CL]

Btw, if you don't see me online it's just because the user experience on Bitcointa.lk is just way better than the one on Bitcointalk.org. And yes, i took a pause, i admit it.

Btw #2, i really don't care if you lock the thread and you try to turn the community against me because i'm supposedly "responsable" for it.

Good luck with that.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #6y4hADKWFSclmeI7

Thank you for cutting out the spam.

I'm not trying to "turn the community against" you, although one could make the case you are trying to exactly that to HashFast.

Drumming up support for a lawsuit, then complaining HashFast 'chose to go the legal route' is a little obnoxious though...  

[HashFast_CL]

cedivad is offline so the thread is now unlocked.

The reason for introducing the legal concept of a 'windfall' is so observers will not be mislead by those falsely claiming HashFast hasn't provided full refunds for the small number of Batch 1 customers who requested them.

Doesn't matter if you call it a "windfall" or not, BTC refunds for BTC purchases were the original agreement by HashFast

That's correct; it doesn't matter if *I* call it a 'windfall' or not.

What matters is if a judge or mediator calls it a 'windfall' or not.

The legally binding language is in the ToS, not a statement made prior to the sudden and rapid appreciation of BTC from $100 to $600, during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

Query: If BTC went to $1,000,000 would you still expect HashFast to pay out millions of dollars in windfall refunds?

If you answer is 'yes' you may want to check the validity of your premises, because they have led you to an absurd conclusion!   

[Syke]

The legally binding language is in the ToS, not a statement made prior to the sudden and rapid appreciation of BTC from $100 to $600, during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

So what you're saying is, HashFast representatives lie when necessary to protect the company. Gotcha.

[gmaxwell]

Let me be completely clear: HashFast sent you a 105% refund, which you admit to returning because you feel entitled to a ~600% windfall based on nothing more than post-purchase appreciation of your chosen payment medium.

You sent me a check which was clearly labeled as a _settlement_ for about 10% of the value you owed me and contained a long list of burdensome conditions, such as that I couldn't tell other people how much you screwed me over. I don't believe I could ethical accept terms like that, nor should I especially for such an enormous loss.  You sold me a machine to mine bitcoin and then you failed to deliver. As a result I lost most of my purchase price— and at the moment all of my purchase price because you refuse to refund and instead  

You know this is true, which explains your failure to get a lawyer. Good job wasting taxpayer money by going the legal route via a complaint to the state of California.   

You again prove that you're not actually reading the certified letters arriving, I have an attorney. I also have not complained to the state of California, though I suppose I probably should do that as well— especially now that you've made it clear with your consistent direct lying as you're doing here that you aren't operating your business in good faith.

I see you used your moderator powers to unlock the thread and have the last word.  Very nice; did you also use your mod powers to ask cedivad to stop spamming us with re-posts?  Your own rules say edit-warring moderated threads is not acceptable...

I didn't unlock the thread. Your locking of it, however generated a number of moderator reports, so I presume someone did it.  SOP around here is that we do unlock threads when scamming vendors try to use locking to suppress people from discussing their fraud.

And please, you think I'm about to lift a finger to help you after you've fucked me over like this and behaved in such an unprofessional manner? The fact that I'm disinclined to apply the full power available to me against you should in no way be interpreted as suggesting that I think I owe you anything. I already gave you every kindness by attempting to resolve your default for three months in private before blasting you in public— attempts seem to have been completely ignored.  You always have the option of going away or convincing some other moderator who you haven't defrauded and deprived of 98 BTC. I've asked people to not repost the same stuff and to keep their posts related to their concerns that your new product (such as concerns that it will not be delivered or perform to specification based on your past and continuing dishonest and unethical business conduct), but beyond that as far as I'm concerned you can pound sand...

[Micky25]

lets put the breakwind topic aside for a moment. What news about shipping?

As you might be aware, one of your bosses mentioned something about 'timing is everything in asic business' or so some months ago.

[HashFast_CL]

The legally binding language is in the ToS, not a statement made prior to the sudden and rapid appreciation of BTC from $100 to $600, during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

So what you're saying is, HashFast representatives lie when necessary to protect the company. Gotcha.

No, I never said that.

Are you saying that HashFast should have to pay out billions of USD refunds, if BTC went to a million dollars each?

If you are (as appears to be the case) please check your assumptions, because they have lead you to an unreasonable and obviously silly conclusion.

[gmaxwell]

Query: If BTC went to $1,000,000 would you still expect HashFast to pay out millions of dollars in windfall refunds?

Sure. Everyone expected you to comply with your promises and to have held or hedged the Bitcoins you collected in order to do so, the talk about investors certainly created that impression, and the very reason we asked about the refunds was specifically because of that case and the reason that we still purchased your hardware at 4-5x the cost per GH of your competition at the time was because of assurances like that.

It's a very easy scam that others are believed to have performed in the past: Collect a bunch of pre-order money. If BTC goes up a lot 'refund' a bunch of people USD. If it goes down, either go ahead and ship a product to everyone or try to refund in BTC.

The fact that you also forcefully "refunded" fractional amounts in USD denominated terms in violation of the contract to many early customers without them ever asking for a refund makes a lot of people believe you are engaging in this fraudulently behavior and that perhaps you company intended to do so all along.

There is no windfall here. I started with X Bitcoin. You sold me a machine to mine Bitcoin for those X Bitcoin scheduled for late october whos value you would almost certainly rapidly decrease and would have been rather close to only breaking even— mining back just X Bitcoin— if you shipped on time and would become worthless if you were late. Your contract allowed you to be up to two months late with no recourse, which would have made my purchase into a substantial loss. To prevent a total loss your contract guaranteed a cancellation and full refund if you were later than that. You were— shipping to apparently a fraction of customers three months after your advertised date and almost one month after your own self-set deadline.

Few sane would spend X bitcoins to purchase hardware which would only ever mine 0.1*X bitcoins, they certainly wouldn't do so at 5x the cost of the competition. Your company was abundantly clear on this and because of it some of us purchased, because while we saw how other companies exploited ambiguity we didn't expect to get ripped off by someone overtly violating their agreement.

Part of how you managed to gain sales originally was by convincing people your company understood the business of mining. It's ironic now how you insist on not understanding it— arguing that people should be happy to pay X bitcoin to buy hardware that earns a tiny fraction back when doing so is essential for your mindblowing claim that everyone's understanding all along was that you planned on refunding the full amount paid regardless of (and specifically due to) BTC price changes in the face of the fact that your founders and support staff clarified this point in the clearest possible terms several times in public and in private. Do you expect that people will want to buy your new mining boards from a company that now insists that it doesn't understand mining?

[cedivad]

Drumming up support for a lawsuit, then complaining HashFast 'chose to go the legal route' is a little obnoxious though...   

Did I?

I didn't cut the spam, it's just that you finally decided to keep the "repost #13". Wise decision. You are growing.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #goOcdfdw05C8MTHt

[HashFast_CL]

Let me be completely clear: HashFast sent you a 105% refund, which you admit to returning because you feel entitled to a ~600% windfall based on nothing more than post-purchase appreciation of your chosen payment medium.

You sent me a check which was clearly labeled as a _settlement_ for about 10% of the value you owed me and contained a long list of burdensome conditions, such as that I couldn't tell other people how much you screwed me over. I don't believe I could ethical accept terms like that, nor should I especially for such an enormous loss.  You sold me a machine to mine bitcoin and then you failed to deliver. As a result I lost most of my purchase price— and at the moment all of my purchase price because you refuse to refund and instead  

You know this is true, which explains your failure to get a lawyer. Good job wasting taxpayer money by going the legal route via a complaint to the state of California.   

You again prove that you're not actually reading the certified letters arriving, I have an attorney. I also have not complained to the state of California, though I suppose I probably should do that as well— especially now that you've made it clear with your consistent direct lying as you're doing here that you aren't operating your business in good faith.

I see you used your moderator powers to unlock the thread and have the last word.  Very nice; did you also use your mod powers to ask cedivad to stop spamming us with re-posts?  Your own rules say edit-warring moderated threads is not acceptable...

I didn't unlock the thread. Your locking of it, however generated a number of moderator reports, so I presume someone did it.  SOP around here is that we do unlock threads when scamming vendors try to use locking to suppress people from discussing their fraud.

And please, you think I'm about to lift a finger to help you after you've fucked me over like this and behaved in such an unprofessional manner? The fact that I'm disinclined to apply the full power available to me against you should in no way be interpreted as suggesting that I think I owe you anything. I already gave you every kindness by attempting to resolve your default for three months in private before blasting you in public— attempts seem to have been completely ignored.  You always have the option of going away or convincing some other moderator who you haven't defrauded and deprived of 98 BTC. I've asked people to not repost the same stuff and to keep their posts related to their concerns that your new product (such as concerns that it will not be delivered or perform to specification based on your past and continuing dishonest and unethical business conduct), but beyond that as far as I'm concerned you can pound sand...

You are not going to get a $65,000 refund for a product you only paid $12,000 for.

You voluntarily chose to spend your 98 BTC and now regret it because of post-purchase appreciation.  

That's a textbook case of buyer's remorse.  I know how it feels bro.  It feels bad, but the correct course of action is to get over it and learn a lesson, not throw a raging fit in public.

Also, if VE and Crumbs can be banned from the self-moderated Activemining thread, cedivad should behave himself here or be shown the door.

[cedivad]

during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

The statement was made in August and the market crashed from 250$ in April... so 3 months is a long period of BTC/USD stability?

Thanks for the gem.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #TFLFPqSAud9iABEP

[cedivad]

Thanks for having decided to delete my repost #13, after that i pointed that out. #14 incoming.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tOLtoJ55FL1qjc3y

[Syke]

You voluntarily chose to spend your 98 BTC and now regret it because of post-purchase appreciation.  

That's a textbook case of buyer's remorse.  I know how it feels bro.  It feels bad, but the correct course of action is to get over it and learn a lesson, not throw a raging fit in public.

Ah, you found a new term in the dictionary, "buyer's remorse". Another nice term that has absolutely no bearing on this case. HashFast promised full BTC refunds if they were late. Need me to post proof again? The customer is entitled to a full BTC refund, for any reason, because HashFast failed to deliver on time.

[HashFast_CL]

during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

The statement was made in August and the market crashed from 250$ in April... so 3 months is a long period of BTC/USD stability?

Thanks for the gem.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #TFLFPqSAud9iABEP

Yes, 3 months is a relatively long period of BTC/USD stability.

The $100-$120 range was in effect for eons of Bitcoin Time.   

There was no way to predict (unless you're cypherdoc) those bounds would be broken on a spike to $1200 and retrace to $600.

[gmaxwell]

You voluntarily chose to spend your 98 BTC and now regret it because of post-purchase appreciation.  

It has absolutely nothing to do with the appreciation of Bitcoin. Your company advertised an October 20th delivery, and claimed to be "on time" until just before you missed that target— now it seems like you were just committing fraud at that point considering you didn't even have the chips until months later. I paid you roughly 5x per GH/s what your competition was charging specifically because you assured me that by doing business with you I wouldn't end up with substantially fewer coins than I started with as a result of delays or failure on your part. You assured this in several layered ways, including a promise of a full refund in the case that you had massively failed to deliver— which turned out to be the case. That promise required holding or hedging and was worth a premium. Because of these assurances I took a risk in doing business with you, and even if you do ultimately make good on your contract I will still be at a significant loss in terms of time, stress, exposure to fraud risk from you, and loss of use of those funds for seven months.

I'm perfectly happy with the actual purchase I made— with the ink on the paper and the terms of the agreement. My only regret is that paper is nearly worthless when the counterpart is a con-artist. To emphasize this further, I'd also be happy to receive the hardware plus the Bitcoin it would have mined had you delivered it on your advertised date. That I haven't been demanding that instead is because it's somewhat more than the full refund which was my "only recourse" according to our agreement, unlike you I'm willing to stick to the actual agreement even when it's a loss to me. Hell, I was prepared to accept— according to our agreement— the hardware plus full MPP and what it would have mined starting on your massively late deadline date of December 31st, though that would be a loss to me. In my first certified letter I proposed an alternative negotiation which would have allowed you to refund me in additional hardware (with a formula for the amount based on when you sent it), specifically because if you did something massive stupid and didn't hold/hedge I didn't want to put you out of business— for the same reason that you're getting forum posts from me and not a process server banging on your door. I'm willing to negotiate and even consider alternatives that leave me somewhat worse off than our agreed terms, because I think business should result in mutually beneficial results. Sadly, you've ignored my letters. What I will not accept is taking a complete bath while _you_ take a windfall, in violation of our contract, nor will I accept a "settlement" that leaves me defrauded while prohibiting me from telling others.

[HashFast_CL]

You voluntarily chose to spend your 98 BTC and now regret it because of post-purchase appreciation.  

That's a textbook case of buyer's remorse.  I know how it feels bro.  It feels bad, but the correct course of action is to get over it and learn a lesson, not throw a raging fit in public.

Ah, you found a new term in the dictionary, "buyer's remorse". Another nice term that has absolutely no bearing on this case. HashFast promised full BTC refunds if they were late. Need me to post proof again? The customer is entitled to a full BTC refund, for any reason, because HashFast failed to deliver on time.

"Buyer's remorse" is not a new term in the dictionary; in fact it's very old, well known, and has everything to do with this case (wherein reasonable understanding of context is studiously ignored because it precludes grants of outlandish windfalls).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyer%27s_remorse

Buyer's remorse is the sense of regret after having made a purchase. It is frequently associated with the purchase of an expensive item such as a car or house. It may stem from fear of making the wrong choice, guilt over extravagance, or a suspicion of having been overly influenced by the seller.

Buyer's remorse is thought to stem from cognitive dissonance, specifically post-decision dissonance, that arises when a person must make a difficult decision, such as a heavily invested purchase between two similarly appealing alternatives. Factors that affect buyer's remorse include resources invested, the involvement of the purchaser, whether the purchase is compatible with the purchaser's goals, and what positive or negative evidence the purchaser encounters post-purchase that confirms or denies the purchase as a good idea.

That is the psychological side; it's economic counterpart is called 'opportunity cost'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

In microeconomic theory, the opportunity cost of a choice is the value of the best alternative forgone, in a situation in which a choice needs to be made between several mutually exclusive alternatives given limited resources. Assuming the best choice is made, it is the "cost" incurred by not enjoying the benefit that would be had by taking the second best choice available.

The New Oxford American Dictionary defines it as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen".

HashFast, or any other merchant of any other good or service, is not responsible for the opportunity cost incurred by a customer.

[jimmothy]

Why did you promise full btc refunds if either:

a. You don't understand the volatility of bitcoin

or

b. You don't hold all btc payments in full in case of refunds.

[dropt]

HashFast, or any other merchant of any other good or service, is not responsible for the opportunity cost incurred by a customer.

No, but you are responsible for living up to the terms of sale that you and your customers agreed to.

[Micky25]

squirming around the truth like a dying worm. I give you a pound of rice, you owe me a pound of rice. Oldest principle of the world.

[Syke]

"Buyer's remorse" is not a new term in the dictionary; in fact it's very old, well known, and has everything to do with this case (wherein reasonable understanding of context is studiously ignored because it precludes grants of outlandish windfalls).

I know you want that to be true because HashFast screwed up so badly, but it's not true. HashFast promised full BTC refunds for any reason if they were late. They were late, therefore they must offer full BTC refunds. Look up classic "if...then..." logic to understand fully what's going on.

[cedivad]

Reposts #17: (thanks HF_CL, i don't even need to clear the clipboard, it's already there)

No I won't because it won't go anywhere. The complaint triggered a letter to HF to see if the complaint could be resolved between company and HF. Because HF went the legal route that option is now off the table. The Department of Justice in the State of California is prohibited by law from representing individual citizen's legal interests in civil matters.

They will retain my customer complaint and the response on behalf of HF by Zuber Lawler &amp; Del Duca in case legal action is taken against HF by their office in the future. In that case the complaint can be used as evidentiary material and provide vital documentation for use on behalf of California consumer's interests.

You were supposed to deliver devices IN TIME. Devices which were supposed to mine back the BTC invested in them to the least.
Actually, given the risks someone takes with investing in ASICs, your devices should have a HIGH chance of mining back the BTC invested in the devices PLUS some extra for the risks taken.

There is no doubt that the BTC price shooting up while you were producing your ASICs would tempt a lot of manufacturers to pretend there being difficulties postponing the delivery while they are mining on the devices produced themselves while manufacturing the next batch for their customers which they again will use to mine themselves if it is too profitable still and postpone the delivery again.

Not saying you did that... or am I?


Are you seriously telling people to be happy to get a 10k USD refund for their 100 btc investment, when if they did not invest in your fucked up company they would have 65k USD worth now in BTC?

F U seriously

If cedivad mentions his lawyer *and* boasts about his overweening absolute confidence in a court victory, you take two shots.

Court? You are such an ignorant. The contract you forced us into says arbitration. It's Morici that will bring you in court and win.

Don't worry -  i will be there with kilograms of popcorns. Yeah, kilograms, you know what a kilogram is, right? It's one thousand grams.

So you confirm this email exchange is legitimate?

I will take it as so.

"Forced?"  Who "forced" you into the ToS?  AFAIK they were entirely voluntary and you were free to agree or disagree to comply with them.

Yes, forced. It's a forced arbitration clause.

Do you want to talk about the fact that you are denying the very existence of the early versions of your contract?
Or do you prefer to talk about the 3 days or so where your Terms of Sales were offline when you opened sales again for your new fantastic EVO?

And since that you keep removing the link (what a poor tactic); you can read this full thread by replacing "bitcointalk.org" with "bitcointa.lk" on this URL.

4) Are terms of sale binding at the time of sale?  Or can you guys retroactively change them?

They recently added a new term to the ToS, if i understood it correctly they can change them retroactively now.


Dear HashFast_CL,

Do you really believe that you are gonna get yourself out of your LIES with such a poor misunderstanding of what the Bitcoin community believes in?
Here is a screenshoot of my Skype conversation with your marketing director and executive John S.
Please read "we only care about our losses, that are not measured in USD".
It was first posted in this board back in October, when no-on would have expected the price to rise as it did.
Moreover, you promised BTC refunds. If you didn't intended to, you shouldn't have LIED to us.

Conversation: https://i.imgur.com/XLQIa1g.png

Also quoting this post as another reference to prove the relation between HashFast (the company) and HashFast_CL:

You already admitted to receiving and returning a check for 105% of the purchase price.
If you really think a court is actually going to give you a $60,000 pony named Windfall, get a lawyer.
But you know that's absurd, which is why you've not done so.

(don't worry HF_CL, this is not the first time that you fall for things like this, and i've already saved all of the others).
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tBRPDR5N1M2yXRTy

[seriouscoin]

cedivad is offline so the thread is now unlocked.

The reason for introducing the legal concept of a 'windfall' is so observers will not be mislead by those falsely claiming HashFast hasn't provided full refunds for the small number of Batch 1 customers who requested them.

Doesn't matter if you call it a "windfall" or not, BTC refunds for BTC purchases were the original agreement by HashFast

That's correct; it doesn't matter if *I* call it a 'windfall' or not.

What matters is if a judge or mediator calls it a 'windfall' or not.

The legally binding language is in the ToS, not a statement made prior to the sudden and rapid appreciation of BTC from $100 to $600, during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

Query: If BTC went to $1,000,000 would you still expect HashFast to pay out millions of dollars in windfall refunds?

If you answer is 'yes' you may want to check the validity of your premises, because they have led you to an absurd conclusion!   

But if BTC crashes to $10, you would happily refund the original BTC amount right?

What a piece of shit that you are. I pray to god your family dies due to horrific disease

[HashFast_CL]

Why did you promise full btc refunds if either:

a. You don't understand the volatility of bitcoin

or

b. You don't hold all btc payments in full in case of refunds.

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves and not taken the unnecessary (and risky) step of involving customers.

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Unfortunately, the decision of a few disgruntled customers to lawyer up and go the legal route forced HashFast to issue refunds solely in USD.

[HashFast_CL]

cedivad is offline so the thread is now unlocked.

The reason for introducing the legal concept of a 'windfall' is so observers will not be mislead by those falsely claiming HashFast hasn't provided full refunds for the small number of Batch 1 customers who requested them.

Doesn't matter if you call it a "windfall" or not, BTC refunds for BTC purchases were the original agreement by HashFast

That's correct; it doesn't matter if *I* call it a 'windfall' or not.

What matters is if a judge or mediator calls it a 'windfall' or not.

The legally binding language is in the ToS, not a statement made prior to the sudden and rapid appreciation of BTC from $100 to $600, during a long period of BTC/USD stability.

Query: If BTC went to $1,000,000 would you still expect HashFast to pay out millions of dollars in windfall refunds?

If you answer is 'yes' you may want to check the validity of your premises, because they have led you to an absurd conclusion!   

But if BTC crashes to $10, you would happily refund the original BTC amount right?

What a piece of shit that you are. I pray to god your family dies due to horrific disease

US law requires a full refund in US dollars.  That's been very clear all along.

If BTC crashed to $10, you could have taken your legally required 100% USD refund and bought loads more BTC.  Sorry, but that didn't happen.

[cedivad]

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves and not taken the unnecess

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Unfortunately, the decision of a few disgruntled customers to lawyer up and go the legal route forced HashFast to issue refunds solely in USD.

You just gave me material for another few paragraphs of my wiki,

Thanks.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #GvaaYGQDaKX161rm

[yxt]

@HashFast_CL

stop your PR chitchat and post an update on shipping ETA

[Syke]

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Nope. Read carefully.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

[SolarSilver]

HashFast has been open and honest regarding the technical reasons for the delay.

If you are open and honest about all this stuff, can you explain why in the last 6 weeks you have not shipped any of the MPP owed on the BBJets? Or the Upgrade kits? Or the Sierras? Or the MPP of the Sierras

None of these pre-ordered and pre-paid items have been shipped

Why?

what is holding you back?

[midnightmagic]

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves and not taken the unnecessary (and risky) step of involving customers.

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Unfortunately, the decision of a few disgruntled customers to lawyer up and go the legal route forced HashFast to issue refunds solely in USD.

So when you sent me my fiat-denominated cheque, but sent me less than what I paid in fiat how does this fit in with your insistence that we're getting a full USD-denominated refund?

[ninjarobot]

That's a textbook case of buyer's scammers remorse.  I know how it feels bro.  

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves and not taken the unnecessary (and risky) step of involving customers investors.

FTFY

[HashFast_CL]

"Full BTC refunds" means a full refund of the price (which is always denominated in USD) via the exchange medium of BTC.

Nope. Read carefully.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

Listen carefully because repeating this is tiresome:

A statement based on and made during a long period of BTC/USD stability cannnot reasonably expected to be maintained given a huge, unexpected spike in the exchange rate.

Are you familiar with the concept of 'reducio ad absurdum?"

It means that if your argument leads to an absurd conclusion, it is false.

IE:  If BTC went to a million, your assumptions would lead to the absurd conclusion that HashFast owes gmaxwell $98,000,000.

Nothing in the ToS indicates HashFast has unlimited liability for BTC/USD exchange rate fluctuations.

No court or arbitrator will ignore the principle of equity in favor of construing the ToS to require infinite risk for HashFast.

Only the self-interested intentional delusions of the greedy, windfall-seeking plaintiffs would make such a ridiculous case.

[yxt]

@HashFast_CL

stop your PR chitchat and post an update on shipping ETA

[cedivad]

A statement based on and made during a long period of BTC/USD stability cannnot reasonably expected to be maintained given a huge spike in the exchange rate.

Jesus, that laugh almost killed me.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #RMruiFPz5XcEesOE

[ninjarobot]

If BTC went to a million, your assumptions would lead to the absurd conclusion that HashFast owes gmaxwell $98,000,000.
Only the self-interested intentional delusions of the greedy, windfall-seeking plaintiffs would make such a ridiculous case.

Good thing HF held on to gmaxwell's BTC payment then (as should be expected considering the ToS/order confirmation). Talking about windfalls...

The specific coins I paid you ended up at https://blockchain.info/address/1KFrqkEGy6Yq7X4SYCbYoj8HEwfbWVUDJ9 which is not under Bitpay's control.

[Syke]

Listen carefully because repeating this is tiresome:

A statement based on and made during a long period of BTC/USD stability cannnot reasonably expected to be maintained given a huge, unexpected spike in the exchange rate.

Yes, complying with the terms of a sale are tiresome. It's so much easier to breach the contract and keep the money and not deliver the goods. It's so much more profitable too!

[cedivad]

Anyway i agree with yxt.

Since that HF_CL is so open today, and that we haven't heard nothing from them since months, let's leave the legal "details" of how we will screw the people who screw their customers apart for one second, and let's talk about your current status of orders.

Why the hell you are not shipping the hardware?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #qoEQN9ZrxXi5RT8R

[ninjarobot]

Why the hell you are not shipping the hardware?

I think HF_CL already answered that question:

If HashFast had enough resources to build your machine without your money, we would have simply kept the machines for ourselves

I.e. they were planning on consuming their own products. Talk about a conflict of interest.

[HashFast_CL]

Listen carefully because repeating this is tiresome:

A statement based on and made during a long period of BTC/USD stability cannnot reasonably expected to be maintained given a huge, unexpected spike in the exchange rate.

Yes, complying with the terms of a sale are tiresome. It's so much easier to breach the contract and keep the money and not deliver the goods. It's so much more profitable too!

There was no breach of contract; HashFast either delivered the goods or issued (5% more than) full refunds to all Batch 1 customers.

The only people who find the ToS tiresome are those who fervently wish for a magical pony named Windfall, and won't let pesky, difficult concepts like

-buyer's remorse
-opportunity cost
-20/20 hindsight
-legal tender
-reasonability
-medium of exchange
-equity

block their righteous path to the promised land of contractually guaranteed free money.   

[cedivad]

Yes, sure, that was before the 15m$ they claimed to have made on sales.

But how do you spend freaking 15 millions dollars, in addition to the VC money? By not building the machines you were paid for? Like in first class air flares for every employe?

No, that's certainly not the case.

No company being sued for FRAUD would have ever done that.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #luAcL2UNC2e6T99Q

[HashFast_CL]

Yes, sure, that was before the 15m$ they claimed to have made on sales.

But how do you spend freaking 15 millions dollars, in addition to the VC money? By not building the machines you were paid for? Like in first class air flares for every employe?

No, that's certainly not the case.

No company being sued for FRAUD would have ever done that.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #luAcL2UNC2e6T99Q

We built the machines we were paid for; in some rare cases we issued (5% more than) 100% refunds.

Paying salaries/rent/taxes is expensive, R&D is expensive, tapeout is extremely expensive, wafers are expensive, fleshing out supply chains is expensive, assembly is expensive, QA is expensive, writing microcode/drivers is expensive, and paying lawyers (thanks to a couple of disgruntled customers who insisted on taking the legal route) is VERY expensive.

Trust me, HashFast isn't spending money on first class air 'flare' for every employee (I wish they would though).   

[cedivad]

We built the machines we were paid for [...]

But did your customers received them?

Why the hell you are not shipping the hardware?

Namely, for example, Sierras Batch 2?

I'm sorry that you have to pay lawyers with my money and that i had to double down my losses to get a fair compensation, really sorry.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #cCHHhG9BERzL1vuX

[ninjarobot]

Let's just agree to disagree when it comes to refunds and contractual obligations. I have a feeling this will have to be fought out in court or arbitration. Not here as it has already been discussed ad nauseam. (I do think potential new customers should be warned of the risks though)

Instead, HashFast_CL (As the community liaison and official spokesperson for HashFast on this forum) can you please help to make this thread more constructive by providing useful information including:

* Expected MPP shipments & quantities for Batch 1 customers.
* Upgrades shipment schedule
* Current production/logistical issues (if any)
* Upcoming firmware updates and cgminer improvements.
* Actual 'out-of-box' product specifications
* etc.

Can we just try to make the best out of a bad situation? Together? Show your customers you are willing to work with us, not against us.

[bkminer]

We built the machines we were paid for;

Then send me my FUCKING MACHINE YOU FUCK!

[cedivad]

Something is really wrong in here. (^^^)
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #a0ONBAz2eHDucyY1

[Syke]

There was no breach of contract; HashFast either delivered the goods or issued (5% more than) full refunds to all Batch 1 customers.

Here's the contract.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

Who was refunded 105% BTC? No one? That's the breach.

[HashFast_CL]

There was no breach of contract; HashFast either delivered the goods or issued (5% more than) full refunds to all Batch 1 customers.

Here's the contract.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

"Contract?"

Sorry, but that's just a post on an internet forum, not a contract.  The ToS are binding, not statements made during an extended period of relative BTC/USD stability (just prior to an unpredictable and unprecedented explosion in BTC value).

Who was refunded 105% BTC? No one? That's the breach.

Not many customers took advantage of the full refund provision, but some did, and they have been paid (except for those windfall-seekers who returned the check and now tell lies about how HashFast sent them nothing).

If you refuse a more-than-full refund in legal tender (IE USD) there is no longer a breach to cure.

[HashFast_CL]

i think you got a chance there.

Sadly, I don't because I simple don't have the time— or emotional tolerance— to see these guys through to court. Fortunately other people are already in the process of suing them, so some amount of justice may still be served.

I started the heavy prodding in public when I saw they were soliciting more rubes to screw over, with only a mild hope that I'd ever see a dollar or a Bitcoin out of them— that maybe if they saw they they were going to be able to get away with the highly profitable task of pulling in more victims without complaint they might try to rescue things with their past customers.  I think that at least the recent noise has been successful at increasing a lot of awareness, and maybe saved some people a $6k loss, so thats all good.

If there is anything someone thinks I can easily do to help them recover please let me know.

You have time to complain to the forum, bother the State of Californa, and hire a lawyer.

But you don't have time to actually pursue a case in court?

More like, you know your quest for a ~600% gain for doing nothing is doomed to fail if it ever reached a proper venue.

Better stick to the court of public opinion, where your narrative of victimization may fool a few rubes.

"Emotional tolerance?"  IOW, you can't stand the idea of a judge ruling your demand for a free pony named Windfall is ludicrous.  That buyer's remorse is just awful, isn't it?   

[jimmothy]

You have time to complain to the forum, bother the State of Californa, and hire a lawyer.

But you don't have time to actually pursue a case in court?

More like, you know your quest for a ~600% gain for doing nothing is doomed to fail if it ever reached a proper venue.

Better stick to the court of public opinion, where your narrative of victimization may fool a few rubes.

"Emotional tolerance?"  IOW, you can't stand the idea of a judge ruling your demand for a free pony named Windfall is ludicrous.  That buyer's remorse is just awful, isn't it?   

Why did you agree to be a windfall?

How can you offer full btc refunds thinking the price will be stable? Are you new to bitcoin? Since the invention of bitcoin, we have yet to see a period longer than a few days let alone months where the price did not swing dramatically. If you did not understand that then you should not be doing business in bitcoin.

Then you create a windfall protection plan by offering possible compensation for delays.

Then you decide to give neither btc refunds or the extra hashing power which was the only reason people decided to go with your company.

Then you complain that it is the customers who are mistakenly looking for a windfall when you sold them a windfall.

Good luck in court.

[yxt]

Let's just agree to disagree when it comes to refunds and contractual obligations. I have a feeling this will have to be fought out in court or arbitration. Not here as it has already been discussed ad nauseam. (I do think potential new customers should be warned of the risks though)

Instead, HashFast_CL (As the community liaison and official spokesperson for HashFast on this forum) can you please help to make this thread more constructive by providing useful information including:

* Expected MPP shipments & quantities for Batch 1 customers.
* Upgrades shipment schedule
* Current production/logistical issues (if any)
* Upcoming firmware updates and cgminer improvements.
* Actual 'out-of-box' product specifications
* etc.

Can we just try to make the best out of a bad situation? Together? Show your customers you are willing to work with us, not against us.

[gmaxwell]

You have time to complain to the forum, bother the State of Californa, and hire a lawyer.

I have a standing relationship with an attorney for a multitude of reasons.  I don't know why you keep talking about "bother the state of california", I believe I've not yet ever communicated with the state of California on any matter what-so-ever, and certainly not you or your company. You need to discontinue your lying here.

More like, you know your quest for a ~600% gain for doing nothing is doomed to fail if it ever reached a proper venue.

Okay, release me from the forced arbitration clause so that there isn't ton of time wasted arguing about the venue— since you're so confident that you'll prevail— and I'll go head with lawsuit now that you've _finally_ admitted that you're planning on actually returning nothing at all— and not leaving me thinking that you just have not been getting my letters.

By taking my funds and giving absolutely nothing, no refund no product you are a thief. And perhaps really what I should be doing is perusing criminal charges. Your theft is not just a civil matter at this point: No theory of law enables you to take peoples funds and give them nothing and then argue that they've somehow forfeit your obligation because you've successfully ignored all their attempts to communicate or negotiate and they wouldn't take a tiny fractional one-sided 'settlement' with onerous additional terms.

[HashFast_CL]

what I should be doing is perusing criminal charges. Your theft is not just a civil matter at this point

Oh brother, could you possibly be more maudlin and self-pitying?   

A 105% refund is not "nothing" no matter how much you prefer a 600% windfall.

No court is going to ignore the fact you refused a refund in legal tender.

Have you read a Federal Reserve Note lately?  It does what it says on the label (settle all debts, public and private).

[gmaxwell]

Oh brother, could you possibly be more maudlin and self-pitying?  
A 105% refund is not "nothing" no matter how much you prefer a 600% windfall.
No court is going to ignore the fact you refused a refund in legal tender.
Have you read a Federal Reserve Note lately?  It does what it says on the label (settle all debts, public and private).

You did not offer me a refund, you offered me a settlement— as was plainly stated. The settlement was for a fraction of what you owe me according to our established agreement and had burdensome additional terms which I have never and will never agree to. (If we're to be pedantic: You also did not offer me federal reserve notes, fwiw.)

No court is going to ignore that you ignored a mountain of letters from me and my months long good faith effort to sort this out in a mutually agreeable manner, no court is going to ignore that you've never offered me a _refund_ just an additional contract "settlement" for a fraction of our agreed on terms. No court is going to ignore that you you're now publicly claiming that you're not going to pay me anything at all.

As I pointed out in prior (I believe now deleted) messages: I would happily take alternative compensation for your default and would even prefer alternative compensation if it was mutually beneficial. What I wouldn't accept is a tiny fraction of a refund plus a "disparagement agreement" while you walk away with a huge windfall and leave dozens of other customers screwed over here— while the "disparagement agreement" left me less able to help them.

But speaking of court— you're saying you're so confident about the outcome, OKAY— where is my release from the forced arbitration so we can actually take it to court without a months long dispute over the proper venue?

[SolarSilver]

There was no breach of contract; HashFast either delivered the goods or issued (5% more than) full refunds to all Batch 1 customers.

You did not replace the broken BBJet I got. It's still underperforming even after a few firmware updates. The initial emails I got said "if this firmware does not fix it, I'll have a replacement board shipped to you on Monday". Lies. Breach of contract.

You did not ship out any of the MPP on the BBJets of Batch #1 you shipped. The MPP calculation started 1st of November, so you could have shipped it out the 1st of Feb. You did not. So yet another breach of contract

Do I need to bring up the still-to-ship upgrade kits? Batch #2 Sierras? The MPP on those Sierras?

How many breaches of contract are you looking at at this point? 5?

Plus the pertinent lies your marketing crew spewed up luring in punters, like "we'll do full BTC refunds"

[BTCInvestorPro]

what I should be doing is perusing criminal charges. Your theft is not just a civil matter at this point

Oh brother, could you possibly be more maudlin and self-pitying?   

A 105% refund is not "nothing" no matter how much you prefer a 600% windfall.

No court is going to ignore the fact you refused a refund in legal tender.

Have you read a Federal Reserve Note lately?  It does what it says on the label (settle all debts, public and private).

Wow, I've been following Hashfast hoping to buy from them after they worked the kinks out of their first batches but after reading the stories in the various threads on here I gotta say I wouldn't go near them.

You contradict yourself and change your story so much it is hard to take you seriously.  It's also pretty incredible that you are here disparaging your customers for asking you to hold up your end of the bargain.

A check isn't legal tender, cash and coin is. You were also apparently forcing people to agree to additional terms and conditions if they accepted that check.  That isn't a refund that is hush money and it appears that no one is buying your crap so now you are on here calling them names!

Hashfast seems to be the one wanting to hold onto ill gotten windfall profits.  You guys look to have been totally incompetent in your execution and when you realized you were sitting on $100 Million+ is USD gains because of Bitcoins price increase you decided to hire a lawyer to try and keep it even though you failed in every respect to provide the products your customers paid you for in a timely fashion even by your own changing definition of on time.  In the mean time you put on a good show of trying your hardest to fix your issues while you fend off the lawsuits from the customers you defrauded and end up with a nice pile of cash/Bitcoin if it all works out in your favor in a few years when all the lawsuits are resolved.  Incredible.

Anyone want to make a BTC bet that someone from Hashfast ends up in prison for fraud before this is all over because I gotta say it's looking more and more like a straight up con.

[Micky25]

Are you familiar with the concept of 'reducio ad absurdum?"

You probably are very familiar with it, because it seems to be the main principle of HashLast when it comes to customer value.

The way you avoid answers about production numbers and delivery dates makes me think, again, that HashLast has initiated the shutdown sequence and is closing.

And you are only buying time with your pathetic tries to bend reality and business rules, to make them fit to your own delusional paradigms.

[bkminer]

We built the machines we were paid for;

If you actually did then you're using our property to mine for yourselves.  I agree with Micky25, stalling for time, why else would HashFast hire a corporate collections professional to head their customer service department?

[Syke]

No court is going to ignore the fact you refused a refund in legal tender.

Have you read a Federal Reserve Note lately?  It does what it says on the label (settle all debts, public and private).

Wait, you sent gmaxwell Federal Reserve Notes??? If you didn't send Federal Reserve Notes, then it makes absolutely no difference what is written on them, because you didn't send him any.

[AdamWhite]

Let's just agree to disagree when it comes to refunds and contractual obligations. I have a feeling this will have to be fought out in court or arbitration. Not here as it has already been discussed ad nauseam. (I do think potential new customers should be warned of the risks though)

Instead, HashFast_CL (As the community liaison and official spokesperson for HashFast on this forum) can you please help to make this thread more constructive by providing useful information including:

* Expected MPP shipments & quantities for Batch 1 customers.
* Upgrades shipment schedule
* Current production/logistical issues (if any)
* Upcoming firmware updates and cgminer improvements.
* Actual 'out-of-box' product specifications
* etc.

Can we just try to make the best out of a bad situation? Together? Show your customers you are willing to work with us, not against us.

[dentro]

Let's just agree to disagree when it comes to refunds and contractual obligations. I have a feeling this will have to be fought out in court or arbitration. Not here as it has already been discussed ad nauseam. (I do think potential new customers should be warned of the risks though)

Instead, HashFast_CL (As the community liaison and official spokesperson for HashFast on this forum) can you please help to make this thread more constructive by providing useful information including:

* Expected MPP shipments & quantities for Batch 1 customers.
* Upgrades shipment schedule
* Current production/logistical issues (if any)
* Upcoming firmware updates and cgminer improvements.
* Actual 'out-of-box' product specifications
* etc.

Can we just try to make the best out of a bad situation? Together? Show your customers you are willing to work with us, not against us.

that would be great, because support still ignoring my emails...

[HashFast_CL]

You have time to complain to the forum, bother the State of Californa, and hire a lawyer.

But you don't have time to actually pursue a case in court?

More like, you know your quest for a ~600% gain for doing nothing is doomed to fail if it ever reached a proper venue.

Better stick to the court of public opinion, where your narrative of victimization may fool a few rubes.

"Emotional tolerance?"  IOW, you can't stand the idea of a judge ruling your demand for a free pony named Windfall is ludicrous.  That buyer's remorse is just awful, isn't it?   

Why did you agree to be a windfall?

How can you offer full btc refunds thinking the price will be stable? Are you new to bitcoin? Since the invention of bitcoin, we have yet to see a period longer than a few days let alone months where the price did not swing dramatically. If you did not understand that then you should not be doing business in bitcoin.

Then you create a windfall protection plan by offering possible compensation for delays.

Then you decide to give neither btc refunds or the extra hashing power which was the only reason people decided to go with your company.

Then you complain that it is the customers who are mistakenly looking for a windfall when you sold them a windfall.

Good luck in court.

Thanks for helping make my point, that HashFast's ToS do not provide for windfalls or otherwise create unlimited liability on our part in the event of massive BTC/USD fluctuations.

Any interpretation of the ToS claiming HashFast must provide windfalls or otherwise be infinitely liable for BTC/USD fluctuation is not reasonable, much less enforceable.

MPP is coming Soon^TM.  Sit tight and be patient.  Great things come to those who wait!   

[joshv06]

You have time to complain to the forum, bother the State of Californa, and hire a lawyer.

But you don't have time to actually pursue a case in court?

More like, you know your quest for a ~600% gain for doing nothing is doomed to fail if it ever reached a proper venue.

Better stick to the court of public opinion, where your narrative of victimization may fool a few rubes.

"Emotional tolerance?"  IOW, you can't stand the idea of a judge ruling your demand for a free pony named Windfall is ludicrous.  That buyer's remorse is just awful, isn't it?   

Why did you agree to be a windfall?

How can you offer full btc refunds thinking the price will be stable? Are you new to bitcoin? Since the invention of bitcoin, we have yet to see a period longer than a few days let alone months where the price did not swing dramatically. If you did not understand that then you should not be doing business in bitcoin.

Then you create a windfall protection plan by offering possible compensation for delays.

Then you decide to give neither btc refunds or the extra hashing power which was the only reason people decided to go with your company.

Then you complain that it is the customers who are mistakenly looking for a windfall when you sold them a windfall.

Good luck in court.

Thanks for helping make my point, that HashFast's ToS do not provide for windfalls or otherwise create unlimited liability on our part in the event of massive BTC/USD fluctuations.

Any interpretation of the ToS claiming HashFast must provide windfalls or otherwise be infinitely liable for BTC/USD fluctuation is not reasonable, much less enforceable.

MPP is coming Soon^TM.  Sit tight and be patient.  Great things come to those who wait!   

How much longer till MPP and upgrades?

[HashFast_CL]

what I should be doing is perusing criminal charges. Your theft is not just a civil matter at this point

Oh brother, could you possibly be more maudlin and self-pitying?   

A 105% refund is not "nothing" no matter how much you prefer a 600% windfall.

No court is going to ignore the fact you refused a refund in legal tender.

Have you read a Federal Reserve Note lately?  It does what it says on the label (settle all debts, public and private).

Wow, I've been following Hashfast hoping to buy from them after they worked the kinks out of their first batches but after reading the stories in the various threads on here I gotta say I wouldn't go near them.

You contradict yourself and change your story so much it is hard to take you seriously.  It's also pretty incredible that you are here disparaging your customers for asking you to hold up your end of the bargain.

A check isn't legal tender, cash and coin is. You were also apparently forcing people to agree to additional terms and conditions if they accepted that check.  That isn't a refund that is hush money and it appears that no one is buying your crap so now you are on here calling them names!

Hashfast seems to be the one wanting to hold onto ill gotten windfall profits.  You guys look to have been totally incompetent in your execution and when you realized you were sitting on $100 Million+ is USD gains because of Bitcoins price increase you decided to hire a lawyer to try and keep it even though you failed in every respect to provide the products your customers paid you for in a timely fashion even by your own changing definition of on time.  In the mean time you put on a good show of trying your hardest to fix your issues while you fend off the lawsuits from the customers you defrauded and end up with a nice pile of cash/Bitcoin if it all works out in your favor in a few years when all the lawsuits are resolved.  Incredible.

Anyone want to make a BTC bet that someone from Hashfast ends up in prison for fraud before this is all over because I gotta say it's looking more and more like a straight up con.

A check represents legal tender.  If you had a stronger argument, you wouldn't need to delve into such silly semantic games.

A "straight up con" wouldn't have

-designed, produced, and delivered multiple petahashes of the World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining ASIC
-given 105% refunds to the few who requested them
-given MPP for free as delay compensation

Madoff was a "straight up con."
Pirate@40 was a "straight up con."
Labcoin was a ""straight up con."

Maybe you should be more careful with your choice of words, because when you accuse a legitimate business of being a "straight up con" it makes you look unwise and less than credible.

[joshv06]

-designed, produced, and delivered multiple petahashes of the World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining ASIC
-given 105% refunds to the few who requested them
-given MPP for free as delay compensation

-That doesn't matter when you're months late
-If you would have delivered on time, people would not have needed refunds.
-No one has gotten MPP. I am still waiting on Upgrades..

HashFast_CL, it amazes me how you feel like you actually have a defense..

I mean, come on.. You work for HashFast.

This is more pathetic than when Josh Zerlan would go on his rants against his customers.

You seem to have a whole lot of time on your hands..

[cedivad]

-designed, produced, and delivered multiple petahashes of the World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining ASIC
-given 105% refunds to the few who requested them
-given MPP for free as delay compensation

1) FALSE
2) FALSE
3) FALSE

However, good luck with using this kind of arguments to prove your innocence.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #Wym0LBVQ4kE5rHw3

[Bicknellski]

-designed, produced, and delivered multiple petahashes of the World's Fastest Bitcoin Mining ASIC
-given 105% refunds to the few who requested them
-given MPP for free as delay compensation

1) FALSE
2) FALSE
3) FALSE

However, good luck with using this kind of arguments to prove your innocence.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #Wym0LBVQ4kE5rHw3

FTFY

1) Evidence?
2) Evidence?
3) Evidence?

The burden of proof is now on HashFast_CL as he made the claims.

Burden of proof is the position, in argumentation theory, that the individual making a claim that something is true is required to support the claim with evidence or sound argument sufficient to warrant acceptance of the claim by the other party. If the claimant cannot provide sufficient evidence, the other party is allowed to disregard the claim without having to disprove it.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Burden_of_proof


It doesn't matter if you think the claim is false what matters is he has to provide evidence to support that claim. No one has to speculate if there is or isn't evidence. If he fails to provide any evidence you can simply ignore the statements.

[SolarSilver]

MPP is coming Soon^TM. 

First see, then believe

You have not shipped Upgrade kits or Sierra's too, so why would we believe you?

Sit tight and be patient.  Great things come to those who wait!   

Are you seriously going taunt us and laugh in our face?

The MPP should have shipped out the 1st of Feb. The Upgrade kits should have shipped in December. As should the Sierras. And the BBJets were also 2 months late

the only thing to come to those who wait is an increase in diffulty

[HashFast_CL]

However, good luck with using this kind of arguments to prove your innocence.

Prove my innocence?  Sheesh, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!  

It is not possible for one to "prove their innocence" because only a positive claims, like accusations of guilt, may be proven.

You can't prove a negative such as innocence.  It violates the rules of logic.

Have fun with the rest of your witch hunt!  

[Micky25]

[cedivad]

Prove my innocence?  Sheesh, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!   :eek:

I'm not the one trowing BS away to prove my innoncence, (since that it's what you did).
You can see by yourself how miserably you failed your trolling attempt.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #bD1LusXwFciltZxz

[Syke]

-given MPP for free as delay compensation

Who has received said MPP?

[perezoso]

-given MPP for free as delay compensation

Who has received said MPP?

Not me.

No "Batch 2" upgrade board, either.

[joshv06]

Well HashFast phone has been off for 4 days.

Did they take the money and run?

[HashFast_CL]

MPP is coming Soon^TM.  

First see, then believe

You have not shipped Upgrade kits or Sierra's too, so why would we believe you?

Sit tight and be patient.  Great things come to those who wait!  

Are you seriously going taunt us and laugh in our face?

The MPP should have shipped out the 1st of Feb. The Upgrade kits should have shipped in December. As should the Sierras. And the BBJets were also 2 months late

the only thing to come to those who wait is an increase in diffulty

HashFast is working as hard as possible to build and deliver upgrade kits and MPP as fast as possible.

Our engineers and production staff work around the clock.  The idea we're resting on our laurels, or mining with customer equipment, or whatever the latest baseless FUD rumor (tropical island/hammock/mai tai) the forum dreams up, is ridiculous.

The HashFast Derangement Syndrome, where the haters spew endless negativity no matter what we do, is getting old.

[JointDoctor]

upgrade kids. 
Ok, i´ll stop now HashLast, but you got to admit it was funny 

[HashFast_CL]

Repost #3:

Not many customers took advantage of the full refund provision, but some did, and they have been paid (except for those windfall-seekers who returned the check and now tell lies about how HashFast sent them nothing).

I received nothing, good luck with proving the opposite.

Anyway... The question is still why the hell your customers didn't received their machines if you claim to have build them? Are they "windfall-seekers" customers that are lying about not having received the hardware, since that you sent it? The same way you didn't send me a refund check?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #8pXCtuB5MzxL9rD0

Hi cedivad,

The windfall-seekers are the very few people demanding a ~600% return on ~$100 BTC they spent a long time ago, to buy risky ASIC pre-orders.

The vast majority of HashFast customers are far more reasonable, and have every right to be antsy and impatient w/r/t shipment of their equipment.

Because there are so many moving parts in our supply chain, making a firm promise for a delivery date isn't going to happen (we've starred in that movie before, and it got terrible reviews).

All I can do at this point is assure everyone we are not a fly-by-night operation and are doing our very best to deliver ASAP.

That's not good enough for the haters suffering from HashFast Derangement Syndrome, but nothing ever is.   

[HashFast_CL]

You opened my eyes. I had no idea HF was selling chips...

With gateway behind the website...
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #ujuidtuy6GAAFym6

HashFast has been selling chips for weeks, it's right on the webpage and very easy to find:

http://hashfast.com/shop/chipsales/

I think it's awesome gateway and his pals at peppermining are using HashFast's chip and can't wait to see if they come up with something even faster than the ~750GH/s EVO.

In the race to the world's first 1TH/sec board, it's HashFast's reference design vs. MrTeal's Habanero!

*pops more corn*

[yxt]

I dont care in world records...
When will you ship the stuff we payed last year?

[minternj]

I dont care in world records...
When will you ship the stuff we payed last year?

[dropt]

The windfall-seekers are the very few people demanding a ~600% return on ~$100 BTC they spent a long time ago, to buy risky ASIC pre-orders.

False, they're the very people that were promised a full BTC refund directly by your staff at the time of purchase.

Because there are so many moving parts in our supply chain, making a firm promise for a delivery date isn't going to happen (we've starred in that movie before, and it got terrible reviews).

Is that the same movie where Hashfast promised that they had a well oiled supply chain and everything was in order?  I spoke with Edward himself and this one of the topics we discussed.

All I can do at this point is assure everyone we are not a fly-by-night operation and are doing our very best to deliver ASAP.

Your best isn't good enough, in fact your performance is abysmal.  If you can't keep up with your existing customer base you should absolutely NOT be taking more orders.

That's not good enough for the haters suffering from HashFast Derangement Syndrome, but nothing ever is.   

No, what's not good enough is your attitude and HF's competence in their chosen field.

[Easy2Mine]

World record negative trust.
I am impressed how trustable HashLast is.
And what is the reason that you never pickup the phone?

[jjiimm_64]

http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/sp10-dawson-april-batch

they had an in stock product before going public.. BRAVO

[cedivad]

HashFast has been selling chips for weeks, it's right on the webpage and very easy to find:

You are right.

I should have said "i had no idea that HF was actually selling chips". Only because you list something on your website it doesn't mean that you are actually selling it.

You are selling the ASIC and the IP for the board, and yet your previous customers are getting nothing at all. I'm quite sure that they would have been happy to have the ASIC and the IP of the board as well instead of void promises as usual.

Repost #5:

Not many customers took advantage of the full refund provision, but some did, and they have been paid (except for those windfall-seekers who returned the check and now tell lies about how HashFast sent them nothing).

I received nothing, good luck with proving the opposite.

Anyway... The question is still why the hell your customers didn't received their machines if you claim to have build them? Are they "windfall-seekers" customers that are lying about not having received the hardware, since that you sent it? The same way you didn't send me a refund check?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tUanwDjEb5Punsr8

[HashFast_CL]

HashFast has been selling chips for weeks, it's right on the webpage and very easy to find:

You are right.

I should have said "i had no idea that HF was actually selling chips". Only because you list something on your website it doesn't mean that you are actually selling it.

You are selling the ASIC and the IP for the board, and yet your previous customers are getting nothing at all. I'm quite sure that they would have been happy to have the ASIC and the IP of the board as well instead of void promises as usual.

Repost #5:

Not many customers took advantage of the full refund provision, but some did, and they have been paid (except for those windfall-seekers who returned the check and now tell lies about how HashFast sent them nothing).

I received nothing, good luck with proving the opposite.

Anyway... The question is still why the hell your customers didn't received their machines if you claim to have build them? Are they "windfall-seekers" customers that are lying about not having received the hardware, since that you sent it? The same way you didn't send me a refund check?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #tUanwDjEb5Punsr8

Nice try cedivad.  We all know that when you say HashFast hasn't sent you a "refund" what you really mean is HashFast hasn't sent you a windfall.  OTOH, some of our reasonable customers cashed their refund checks a long time ago.

Has your lawyer mentioned how much tax you would have to pay on such a windfall?  

[yxt]

Why are you always ignoring the Q regarding shipping ETA

[cedivad]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HF never sent me a refund (of any kind). Never sent me hardware. Never took the time to answer to any of my communications.

And i'm sorry to disappoint you another time, but i can take care of my taxes, given the taxes for my own business that i already pay to my state since the age of 18.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #czMFQMAuIYXMerTc

[HashFast_CL]

Why are you always ignoring the Q regarding shipping ETA

I don't work in the shipping or customer service dept.

If you have any questions about the hardware or mining, I will be happy to answer them!

[yxt]

Why are you always ignoring the Q regarding shipping ETA

I don't work in the shipping or customer service dept.

If you have any questions about the hardware or mining, I will be happy to answer them!

lol, then close your acc and stop wasting our time

[HashFast_CL]

Why are you always ignoring the Q regarding shipping ETA

I don't work in the shipping or customer service dept.

If you have any questions about the hardware or mining, I will be happy to answer them!

lol, then close your acc and stop wasting our time

Please stay on topic or leave the thread.

[yxt]

Why are you always ignoring the Q regarding shipping ETA

I don't work in the shipping or customer service dept.

If you have any questions about the hardware or mining, I will be happy to answer them!

lol, then close your acc and stop wasting our time

Please stay on topic or leave the thread.

the topic is why are you advertising new preorder stuff while you (and nobody else in your whole company)
can or will give me an update when if you will ship my order..  

pls answer that or leave the forum

[SolarSilver]

You opened my eyes. I had no idea HF was selling chips...

With gateway behind the website...
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #ujuidtuy6GAAFym6

HashFast has been selling chips for weeks, it's right on the webpage and very easy to find:

http://hashfast.com/shop/chipsales/

That says nothing... we've been ordering crap from your website since 2013 and you have not shipped any of it

I think it's awesome gateway and his pals at peppermining are using HashFast's chip and can't wait to see if they come up with something even faster than the ~750GH/s EVO.

In the race to the world's first 1TH/sec board, it's HashFast's reference design vs. MrTeal's Habanero!

*pops more corn*

who cares... how about you ship the Batch #1 BBJet MPP, the Upgrade kits, the Batch #2 Sierras... the MPP on the Sierras.... the list goes on and on

[SolarSilver]

Has your lawyer mentioned how much tax you would have to pay on such a windfall?  

Actually nothing because in some countries there is no Capital Gains tax

Now, how about just refunding as Hashfast in the first place and let us worry about any taxes?

[HashFast_CL]

Has your lawyer mentioned how much tax you would have to pay on such a windfall?  

Actually nothing because in some countries there is no Capital Gains tax

Now, how about just refunding as Hashfast in the first place and let us worry about any taxes?

Italy is not "some country" and has 20%+ capital gains tax.

Plus possibly more for windfalls like the one cedivad is anticipating.

[yxt]

and again you go with nonsense answer and ignoring the important Q

So I have Q about hardware and mining:

When/If can I start mining with my payed stuff you don't deliver?
Only silence about that and PR bullshit!
Why are you wasting time here? Do you realy think you will sell preorders to anybody reading here regularly?

[xstr8guy]

However, good luck with using this kind of arguments to prove your innocence.

Prove my innocence?  Sheesh, I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!  

[Beans]

Received a email from some scammers at echosign.com today claiming to be from hashfast. So not only do they not delivery anything or return emails but our personal info has been leaked.

[cedivad]

I'm amused at CL giving me advices on my taxes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2o2jeYEKF6Yl0rde

[SolarSilver]

Has your lawyer mentioned how much tax you would have to pay on such a windfall?  

Actually nothing because in some countries there is no Capital Gains tax

Now, how about just refunding as Hashfast in the first place and let us worry about any taxes?

Italy is not "some country" and has 20%+ capital gains tax.

I'm in Belgium and we don't have any Capital Gains tax. How about you start shipping the equipment I paid for in September 2013?

I'll even take a refund.

how about that?

Plus possibly more for windfalls like the one cedivad is anticipating.

Let us wonder about the grown up things and you stop pushing HashFasts vapourware? Stop trying to lure in other punters so you can get pre-order money. You know, the money the pays your wages and lawyers that keep you in business but prevents you from actually shipping out an actual product people paid for?

[HashFast_CL]

I'm amused at CL giving me advices on my taxes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2o2jeYEKF6Yl0rde

Likewise, we're amused at DC & Co. giving us advice on our ToS!   

[xstr8guy]

So the big question for anyone not really paying close attention to the many HF threads... are they actually something now or has it come to a complete stop?  The difficulty increase seems to indicate that very little 28nm is actually shipping.  The vast majority is most likely Ants, Bitfury/GHash and until recently, KNC's private farm.

[cedivad]

Likewise, we're amused at DC &amp; Co. giving us advice on our ToS!   

What is he talking about? DC is me, i guess.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #Mo3kB6ey7kbnUzyG

[JointDoctor]

I'm amused at CL giving me advices on my taxes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2o2jeYEKF6Yl0rde

Likewise, we're amused at DC & Co. giving us advice on our ToS!  

Wich version?  
Seriously, you´re the most unprofessional company i´ve ever seen in my life.
In EU you would be prosecuted a long time ago.

[HashFast_CL]

I'm amused at CL giving me advices on my taxes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2o2jeYEKF6Yl0rde

Likewise, we're amused at DC & Co. giving us advice on our ToS!  

Wich version?  
Seriously, you´re the most unprofessional company i´ve ever seen in my life.
In EU you would be prosecuted a long time ago.

Yawn, wake up me when InterPol arrests Swiss person Giorgio M of Bitmine.ch for the crime of being late with an ASIC.   

Oh wait, an ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal... 

[Unacceptable]

I'm amused at CL giving me advices on my taxes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2o2jeYEKF6Yl0rde

Likewise, we're amused at DC & Co. giving us advice on our ToS!  

Wich version?  
Seriously, you´re the most unprofessional company i´ve ever seen in my life.
In EU you would be prosecuted a long time ago.

Yawn, wake up me when InterPol arrests Swiss person Giorgio M of Bitmine.ch for the crime of being late with an ASIC.   

Oh wait, an ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal... 

Not according to Bitmain or ASICminer !!! 

[xstr8guy]

Oh boy, where do I preorder?!

Seriously, I have an interest in the different ASICs available but I guess I can feel good about crossing HashFast off of my list.

[HashFast_CL]

Oh boy, where do I preorder?!

Seriously, I have an interest in the different ASICs available but I guess I can feel good about crossing HashFast off of my list.

You may order a Golden Nonce ASIC board from HashFast, BlackMiner, PepperMining, or Cognitive.

Plus at least one other vendor, to be announced...   

The cool kids are all starting to use HashFast chips, because they're the fastest!

[gmaxwell]

Interesting emails today:

The hashfast customers from the G-J section of the alphabet in the email leak have been chatting amongst themselves. It's a whole additional community with many people who haven't received their hardware and whom HF has cut communications with... many of whom were unaware of how widespread the issues were.

In the middle of all that someone posted:

Hello all,

As of today, the 19th of March, Cognitive has entered a partnership with HashFast to open a parallel production line and resell HashFast chips. We will be selling Cognitive branded Hashfast "Evo" boards (http://hashfast.com/shop/sierraevo/) for April delivery or your money back. Starting on the 4th of April, 2014 we will be producing and shipping 300 boards per day achieving an average (+/- 10%) of 750Gh/s each.

The boards are available for purchase at [URL elided] today.

If desired, I can provide you a private link that displays the realtime hashing output (cgminer feed + eligius address) of a single Evo board.

Best,
Garrett MacDonald
CEO, Cognitive
1.424.253.4278

To which a bunch of people responded along the lines of WTF WHY ARE YOU GETTING CHIPS WHEN I'M STILL WAITING!?

to which he replied

The situation right now is: HashFast is short on money, I am paying for a new, separate production line to begin and will be recieving the profits from it an it's first few thousand boards. Beyond this, HashFast will take control of the line producing Evo boards and will be able to serve customers much faster than before.

The hashfast directors, myself and my partner, and both of our lawyers have talked it over and it is a go from everyone legally.

Cheap hashpower for all, and the ramp-up of a new production line for HashFast customers. This is a total win-win situation.

Best,
Garrett

[cedivad]

I would like to hear a rough number on the cost of setting up such a production line from someone with knowledge.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2wkMLW1bANRqAjxl

[JointDoctor]

I would like to hear a rough number on the cost of setting up such a production line from someone with knowledge.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2wkMLW1bANRqAjxl

Estimated guess, based on experience, USD 15-20 million.
The daily cost of running it, no idea... to many factors.

No matter what you do Hashfast, you will always be remembered as the greatest douchebags in the history of Bitcoin.
Mark and his MtGox fiasco is not even close to your incompetence 

[cedivad]

Estimated guess, based on experience, USD 15-20 million.
The daily cost of running it, no idea... to many factors.

Are you saying that making the PCBs is more expensive than the mask/ASIC?

Things doesn't round up, do they?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #ZXH5jBVSgNxW0N6P

[xstr8guy]

Oh boy, where do I preorder?!

Seriously, I have an interest in the different ASICs available but I guess I can feel good about crossing HashFast off of my list.

You may order a Golden Nonce ASIC board from HashFast, BlackMiner, PepperMining, or Cognitive.

Plus at least one other vendor, to be announced...   

The cool kids are all starting to use HashFast chips, because they're the fastest!

What reassurance would I have that the 3rd party vendors will be able to deliver your product on time and on spec if you can't fulfill your own, much older orders?

[JointDoctor]

Estimated guess, based on experience, USD 15-20 million.
The daily cost of running it, no idea... to many factors.

Are you saying that making the PCBs is more expensive than the mask/ASIC?

Things doesn't round up, do they?
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #ZXH5jBVSgNxW0N6P

To open a new production line you need not only the cheap PCB´s and a large stock of chips but also machines, space, staff, raw material, clearance, storage, extra cofferooms ( ) etc

Have in mind, the email says "open a parallel production line", they´re not just renting the machines next to Hashlast. The email also says production line is suppose to exist in the future, it´s not just a temporary solution.

[RoadStress]

Interesting emails today:
...

And here i was thinking this story can't get any better...

I would like to hear a rough number on the cost of setting up such a production line from someone with knowledge.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #2wkMLW1bANRqAjxl

Estimated guess, based on experience, USD 15-20 million.
The daily cost of running it, no idea... to many factors.

No matter what you do Hashfast, you will always be remembered as the greatest douchebags in the history of Bitcoin.
Mark and his MtGox fiasco is not even close to your incompetence 

That's way too much!

[bkminer]

Received a email from some scammers at echosign.com today claiming to be from hashfast. So not only do they not delivery anything or return emails but our personal info has been leaked.

echosign.com is an Adobe service for eSigning.  The company I contract though uses it for all of our contracts...

[cedivad]

So buying the machinery is cheaper than renting them?
If HF is so open and clean, why they don't just give us a BOM and we will try to get an idea of the price of making this PCB?

Because after months of lies, this looks like just another of them to me.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #mQWpyeIhcLBejJcb

[ninjarobot]

The situation right now is: HashFast is short on money, I am paying for a new, separate production line to begin and will be recieving the profits from it an it's first few thousand boards. Beyond this, HashFast will take control of the line producing Evo boards and will be able to serve customers much faster than before.

Wow. So HF screwed up and their early customers take a bath. Cognitive bails them out by setting up a production line that HF could not afford anymore but HF existing customers will have to go to the back of the line in favor of Cognitive's new customers.

Are they still producing the 'old' 400 GH/s GN boards? I guess the plan for MPP is to turn 4 400 GH/s 'Old' boards into 2 800 GH/s 'Evo' boards. If so it would mean more waiting. Higher difficulty and a deeper hole for existing customers.

At least Garrett MacDonald seems to be talking. Which is something HashFast doesn't (unless you count HashFast_CL's trash talking)

[dropt]

The situation right now is: HashFast is short on money, I am paying for a new, separate production line to begin and will be recieving the profits from it an it's first few thousand boards. Beyond this, HashFast will take control of the line producing Evo boards and will be able to serve customers much faster than before.

Wow. So HF screwed up and their early customers take a bath. Cognitive bails them out by setting up a production line that HF could not afford anymore but HF existing customers will have to go to the back of the line in favor of Cognitive's new customers.

Are they still producing the 'old' 400 GH/s GN boards? I guess the plan for MPP is to turn 4 400 GH/s 'Old' boards into 2 800 GH/s 'Evo' boards. If so it would mean more waiting. Higher difficulty and a deeper hole for existing customers.

Sounds about right.  I would guess we're witnessing the bail-out of Hashfast by Cognitive.  Perhaps people are winning full BTC refunds through the legal process putting HF on the brink of bankruptcy.  If so I imagine there's a clause that prohibits the plaintiff from talking about it.   That would certainly explain a lot of what's going on here.

[JointDoctor]

So buying the machinery is cheaper than renting them?
If HF is so open and clean, why they don't just give us a BOM and we will try to get an idea of the price of making this PCB?

Because after months of lies, this looks like just another of them to me.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #mQWpyeIhcLBejJcb

Fuck YES.

Hashlast will NEVER state the BOM cost per board, i guarantee it. They would rather die.
To give out a bill of material is corporate suicide.

[cedivad]

Fuck YES.

Ok,
Listen everyone:

Making the PCB is more expensive than making the ASIC. The asic is a couple of millions, the PCB is in the order of 20-25 millions.

Please take note of the level of absurdity we reached.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #OznWEdPbJLVLl2sF

[dropt]

Fuck YES.

Ok,
Listen everyone:

Making the PCB is more expensive than making the ASIC. The asic is a couple of millions, the PCB is in the order of 20-25 millions.

Please take note of the level of absurdity we reached.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #OznWEdPbJLVLl2sF

You guys are misunderstanding each other.

[JointDoctor]

Fuck YES.

Ok,
Listen everyone:

Making the PCB is more expensive than making the ASIC. The asic is a couple of millions, the PCB is in the order of 20-25 millions.

Please take note of the level of absurdity we reached.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #OznWEdPbJLVLl2sF

Dude  
Put the pipe down.

Do you think manufacturers charge cost per hour when making PCB´s?  
It´s per unit, you dumbfuck!

...and what, to produce a ASIC is only one time cost? INFINITY STOCK of chips after one payment, cedivad got it all figured out.

[cedivad]

It&acute;s per unit, you dumbfuck!

Don't worry, i wasn't expecting anything else other than a rude an ignorante offense from you.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #nzIYY3pshJRtbahq

[JointDoctor]

It&acute;s per unit, you dumbfuck!

Don't worry, i wasn't expecting anything else other than a rude an ignorante offense from you.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #nzIYY3pshJRtbahq

I actually apologize for that 
It was rude of me, i just got so caught up in the moment and lost my temper a little.

Peace?  (Better focus on our common "enemy" HashLast)

[s1lverbox]

Thanks for deleting my post. atleast i know what kind of bunch I have in front of me.

massive over line on Hash last. .....will stick to BITMAIN.

[SolarSilver]

Oh wait, an ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal... 

The must be the real HashFast company moto

Great quote!

[SolarSilver]

Sounds about right.  I would guess we're witnessing the bail-out of Hashfast by Cognitive.  Perhaps people are winning full BTC refunds through the legal process putting HF on the brink of bankruptcy.  If so I imagine there's a clause that prohibits the plaintiff from talking about it.   That would certainly explain a lot of what's going on here.

If HashFast is getting bailed out by Cognitive, the old customers and debt is just going to roll over to Cognitive. Somebody will have to pay up those refunds, in the end. Edward, you can run but you can't hide

[cedivad]

If HashFast is getting bailed out by Cognitive, the old customers and debt is just going to roll over to Cognitive. Somebody will have to pay up those refunds, in the end. Edward, you can run but you can't hide

This is why it's not a bail out... They are just gifting them our stuff.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #3Sn5ELsc9sCXODGH

[bkminer]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SHIP?  In 2040 after the last BTC is mined?

[xstr8guy]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SHIP?  In 2040 after the last BTC is mined?

Well you'll still be able to mine for transaction fees. 

[bkminer]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SHIP?  In 2040 after the last BTC is mined?

Well you'll still be able to mine for transaction fees.  

Yep that will give me an ROI sometime in the year 2525!!!!  

[HashFast_CL]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

[cedivad]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

Aren't you too busy satisfying your fiduciary duties to the creditors to troll?

[Bicknellski]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

Aren't you too busy satisfying your fiduciary duties to the creditors to troll?

What a fricking donkey.

Guys trolling after ripping everyone off? What a fricking donkey.

[Syke]

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

It's takes a monumental scum of the earth to come here and taunt the people that you ripped off. WTG ASSHOLE.

[s1lverbox]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

Can't get it...How come this troll still exist and walking on earth? What the hell is going on with them fuckers? BFL now this what ever hash-slow is.

People wake up and kick some asses.

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

Is icebreaker still posting as Hashfast-CL?

[cedivad]

I can totally see them justifying their posts saying that HF_CL was hacked long ago and that they never had control over it for like... the last 9 months.

[smoothie]

I can totally see them justifying their posts saying that HF_CL was hacked long ago and that they never had control over it for like... the last 9 months.

It wouldn't be a surprise to me as every scammer or liar on this forum or in the crypto space does the same thing....point the finger elsewhere while pocketing your money.

[Airwhale]

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

This is why I love Hashfast.  The professionalism.

[joshv06]

This makes me sick to my stomach.

[RoadStress]

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.  

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs).  

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?  

Translation:

We knew that legally we will get away with our lies about full BTC refunds

[cedivad]

Translation:

We knew that legally we will get away with our lies about full BTC refunds

No, they simply had a plan and methodically followed it. The plan included bankrupting the company, so what's the problem with promising BTC refunds? That, the MPP (don't forget the MPP change from chips only to whole boards), "In Stock" units, a shipping date promised for when the wafers weren't even out of the fab, "everything still on track" until 3 days before the shipping date to get more sales (whey only a "critical component" was delayed, but everything else was "in schedule, or ahead of schedule" (Barber's words))...

The only thing they didn't expected was the involuntary bankruptcy petition. They would be still there trying to ship batch 2.5 (minus "big orders", that could get chips not worth their manufacturing costs) elsewise.

I and countless others ordered only because of their infinite promises... So the question is, what did they made this show for, if Barber claims not have the money needed for his families expenses?

[Gleb Gamow]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

So, it's my (Phinnaeus Gage) fault, correct?

Clobered09: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506127.msg5605969#msg5605969

I am not a lawyer, I am a third year law student at a T14 school and I've specialized in securities and investment law.

[AdamWhite]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

You are phenomenally and stunningly full of shit. In addition, your posting history makes it obvious that you suffer from severe psychological issues. Seek help

[Gleb Gamow]

they are obligated to give full btc refunds because it was specifically stated in the ToS and also confirmed in an email to support staff.

in nearly every US state, the remedy for a violation of a contractual duty to deliver a fungible good is the market value of that good at breach, and unless the parties agree and execute otherwise, that remedy is in legal tender.

If HF_CL fails at calming down the community newly created accounts of people knowing the law better than our lawyers arrive to the rescue.
Posted from asd, ref#NN3YE2pVR8l1X4iz

Hi cedivad!

It turns out that Clobered09 and I did know better than your crummy, impotent, and now long-gone lawyer.  Don't try to argue with me about legal stuff, because you will lose no matter how much money you waste on attorney fees.   

I'd like to thank you, gmaxwell, Phinneaus, and everyone else who loudly and publicly eschewed the opportunity to cash 105% refund checks in the lulzy, but futile, hope a judge would order HF to give you all 600% windfalls (plus court costs). 

You guys really set a great example and provided some stellar advice!

Every remaining penny of those refused refund checks is now eligible to help pay for my order's unfulfilled MPP.  Isn't that super?   

You are phenomenally and stunningly full of shit. In addition, your posting history makes it obvious that you suffer from severe psychological issues. Seek help

To drive your point home, HashFast_CL once posted this image: