DefaultTrust changes

[Lafu]

~~~~~~

Thanks LoyceV for the list .

I used it for the German translation thread i have done and doing the updates there .

[1575690823]

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[Steamtyme]

There are a lot of people who are on DT who have negative trust. It seems there might be a mismatch between who is on DT and who should be on DT.

Just because someone has received negative "feedback" from someone deemed trustworthy by some users doesn't mean they can't also be trustworthy to other users. This seems to me the system is working as intended and spreading out the Default trust as opposed to having it be a core group.

It should really only be used by newbies anyways as more experienced users should create their own custom trust lists.

[Quickseller]

There are a lot of people who are on DT who have negative trust. It seems there might be a mismatch between who is on DT and who should be on DT.

Just because someone has received negative "feedback" from someone deemed trustworthy by some users doesn't mean they can't also be trustworthy to other users. This seems to me the system is working as intended and spreading out the Default trust as opposed to having it be a core group.

It should really only be used by newbies anyways as more experienced users should create their own custom trust lists.

I didn't say that those who have negative trust should not be on DT. Although this may be the case some of the time.

[Steamtyme]

I didn't say that those who have negative trust should not be on DT. Although this may be the case some of the time.

Okay then I don't really understand what you meant by the statement below. I do agree that sometimes there can be an issue that's why it's always good to review feedback. There is one account I'm unfamiliar with that I think may fall into that here upon further inspection. I rarely check into the DT list.

It seems there might be a mismatch between who is on DT and who should be on DT.

[LoyceV]

This seems to me the system is working as intended and spreading out the Default trust as opposed to having it be a core group.

It's not flawless though, there are for instance still 4 banned users on DT2:
DT 2
   162. 140437: DyslexicZombei Banned! (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
   349. 982157: tayfundeniz Banned! (Trust:  neutral) (46 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
   389. 1145174: Gary Levanevskii Banned! (Trust:  neutral) (127 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
   435. 1831671: ugurum15 Banned! (Trust:  neutral) (22 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

[Steamtyme]

It's not flawless though, there are for instance still 4 banned users on DT2:

What system is 
I would have to go look through their feedback and what not, but it might still be valuable enough to deserve to be included within someone's trust list. If they are aware it is a banned individual though I guess as DT-1 or even a candidate they should mirror what they agree with and then remove the banned user from their list. I'm trying to be a little more open minded to the nuances of this system, up to and including making an argument for a perma-banned user to be on DT-2... kinda felt dirty just typing that. I think I came to this thought when it was apparent that some users were deserving of a second chance when a year or two ago they would have likely never received that opportunity.
Just realized Ban's still aren't visible on a profile, it really should be stated on a profile page... but that's a different topic.

[LoyceV]

I would have to go look through their feedback and what not, but it might still be valuable enough to deserve to be included within someone's trust list.

The first one has left a lot of positive feedback. The other 3 haven't left any feedback at all. Those last 3 aren't really a problem for the Trust system, but it's not helping either.

[DiamondCardz]

    5. Legendary DiamondCardz (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) (81 Merit earned (history)) (BPIP)

I realized a couple weeks ago that I met the DT1 requirements other than for having a custom list (which I had gotten rid of despite having one before), so conjured one up to the best of my ability.

I'm not sure how long I'll be on DT1 because I'll be negating people off my trust list who I think blatantly abuse the system, and once I start doing that they'll likely negate me too which could make me drop off - but ah well, I think it's more important to make clear my thoughts on people using the trust system for things such as "I disagree with what this person says".

[Lauda]

This seems to me the system is working as intended and spreading out the Default trust as opposed to having it be a core group.

It's not flawless though, there are for instance still 4 banned users on DT2:

Wouldn't a simple solution to this be that if you're banned you're no longer eligible for DT1 and DT2?

[Steamtyme]

I would have to go look through their feedback and what not, but it might still be valuable enough to deserve to be included within someone's trust list.

The first one has left a lot of positive feedback. The other 3 haven't left any feedback at all. Those last 3 aren't really a problem for the Trust system, but it's not helping either.

Yeah I looked it over quickly I agree with you, looks like the first is an older account that was involved in group buys or something while older feedback is still relevant, there's nothing there that seems to be enough to need them on a trust list. The other three don't have any value for the system overall and if they were their based on their judgement in posting and advice, they can't do it anymore so are doing nothing, apart from potentially filling a spot on the 10 required for a personal trust list.

I was more making a general comment that there could be cases where banned doesn't mean poor judgement in regards to feedback.

I think it's more important to make clear my thoughts on people using the trust system for things such as "I disagree with what this person says".

Agreed, It's definitely best to make a list that represents your judgement rather than worrying about remaining or earning a spot on DT.

Wouldn't a simple solution to this be that if you're banned you're no longer eligible for DT1 and DT2?

Could be, then the users who agree with ratings just have to go back and duplicate the feedback they deem relevant. It would probably have to become a larger issue than it currently is before anything like that happens

[bones261]

Theymos has just updated DT1, these are the changes:

Well, shoot. Looks like I missed the deadline to get one post in during a 30 day period. That's what I get for taking a long break. Now I have all of these merits to dispose of as well. Did anyone miss me? (I doubt it.  )

[suchmoon]

Well, shoot. Looks like I missed the deadline to get one post in during a 30 day period. That's what I get for taking a long break. Now I have all of these merits to dispose of as well. Did anyone miss me? (I doubt it.  )

Funny you should say that. I browsed your post history a couple of days ago looking for hints of you building a seastead or something . Definitely miss my fellow merit-circling DT-abusing Meta/WO resident.

You did have posts within 30 days though (last one October 7). Perhaps it was the "must have been online sometime within the last 3 days" rule that kicked you out.

[Last of the V8s]

Yah bones mic was asking after you in the WO. I did see signs of life so I left it. How you been? Where you been?
I think that nutildah guy needs merits btw.

edit: oh hey there's also the art thing for your merit love https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5193860.0

edit2 the sequel: bloons? man that's addictive

[bones261]

Funny you should say that. I browsed your post history a couple of days ago looking for hints of you building a seastead or something . Definitely miss my fellow merit-circling DT-abusing Meta/WO resident.

You did have posts within 30 days though (last one October 7). Perhaps it was the "must have been online sometime within the last 3 days" rule that kicked you out.

I wish that I had the BTC to set up a seastead.   Atm I only have something like 2 bitcents left.  It's one of the reasons that I decided to lose my signature. Gambling just isn't something that I should be immersed in. Although I will still be keeping tabs on the Game protect thread. (I won't become one of his clients though.) However, although I'm BTC poor, I'm rich in source merit to give out. I have well over 300 to give out.

Yah bones mic was asking after you in the WO. I did see signs of life so I left it. How you been? Where you been?
I think that nutildah guy needs merits btw.

Just taking a break. Played lots of Candy Crush and some game with monkeys popping balloons.

edit2 the sequel: bloons? man that's addictive

I'm playing TD5 on my desktop.  I still have an iphone 5 and the screen is too small to play games.

[suchmoon]

I'm rich in source merit to give out. I have well over 300 to give out.

Head over to the art thread like V8 said, just start from the end because otherwise you're gonna run out before you get to the good stuff.

[LoyceV]

Lauda had (2) net-inclusions on DT1.
Lauda now has 6 net-inclusions on DT2.
Lauda got blacklisted from DT1.

I have 2 scenarios
1: suppose Lauda wasn't blacklisted, but got 3 more exclusions from other DT1 members. That would mean Lauda was removed from DefaultTrust entirely.

2: the current state (Lauda blacklisted from DT1). Now suppose Lauda gets the same 3 exclusions from DT1. That would mean Lauda still has 3 net-inclusions on DT2 and remains on DefaultTrust.

This means it is possible that a DT1-exclusion leads to a member being on DT2 which wouldn't happen without blacklisting. This is probably caused by the fact that excluded DT1-members can vote against other DT1-members, but they can't vote against DT2-members.
Is that the intended behaviour of the DefaultTrust system?

I was reminded about this by The-One-Above-All.
It turns out LoyceMobile's scenario became reality:
According to IsLaudaStillOnDT.tk:

YEP.

Lauda is on DT2 with 1 inclusions.

Now check Lauda's Trust inclusions and exclusions from DT1 (data from last Saturday morning's data dump):

Trust list for: Lauda (Trust: +34 / =3 / -1) (1209 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-11-23_Sat_06.13h)
Back to index

Lauda Trusts these users' judgement:
-

Lauda Distrusts these users' judgement:
-

Lauda's judgement is Trusted by:
5. qwk (Trust: +13 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (23) 1191 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. Anduck (Trust: +19 / =2 / -1) (DT1! (4) 55 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. DiamondCardz (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 86 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. philipma1957 (Trust: +24 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (17) 980 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
24. hybridsole (Trust: +19 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 259 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
27. hilariousandco (Trust: +17 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (37) 688 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
28. Avirunes (Trust: +10 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (8) 265 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
34. owlcatz (Trust: +40 / =0 / -1) (DT1! (23) 240 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
36. sapta (Trust: +10 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 177 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
37. BitcoinPenny (Trust: +42 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (17) 569 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
44. ezeminer (Trust: +23 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 95 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
57. asu (Trust: +2 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (2) 508 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
69. finaleshot2016 (Trust: +1 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (3) 548 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
71. crwth (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 471 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
78. roycilik (Trust: +6 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (4) 1055 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
83. Silent26 (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 224 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
97. pandukelana2712 (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (2) 923 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
99. asche (Trust: +7 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (8) 803 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
104. TalkStar (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (4) 390 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~Lauda's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. theymos (Trust: +26 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (59) 5786 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. gmaxwell (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (19) 1742 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. TECSHARE (Trust: +37 / =4 / -1) (DT1 (-3) 540 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. OgNasty (Trust: +84 / =2 / -5) (DT1! (5) 741 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. babo (Trust: +6 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (5) 285 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
25. TookDk (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 39 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
42. arulbero (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 337 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
44. mindrust (Trust: neutral) (DT1! (4) 619 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
52. redsn0w (Trust: +8 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (6) 40 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
58. Rmcdermott927 (Trust: +26 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (1) 47 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
64. nutildah (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 1471 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
80. zazarb (Trust: +23 / =0 / -1) (DT1 (-3) 482 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
90. WhiteManWhite (Trust: neutral) (DT1! (5) 85 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
101. kzv (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (0) 555 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
104. TheFuzzStone (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (11) 736 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
125. bobita (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (1) 351 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
142. Goran_ (Trust: neutral) (DT1! (2) 832 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
178. chimk (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 696 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
212. fillippone (Trust: +7 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (8) 1703 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
213. taikuri13 (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (11) 1042 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

The result:
19 inclusions
20 exclusions

The reason: TECSHARE and zazarb are on DT1, but excluded by other DT1s. That means they can still vote to exclude other DT1-members, but they can't "downvote" DT2-members (because their vote doesn't count there).
I've posted before asking if this is the intended behaviour, but theymos never responded. I'm still curious to know if this is a a flaw or done on purpose.

Note that Lauda wouldn't be on DT1 even without being excluded by theymos: emptying your own Trust list disqualifies you already.

[fillippone]

New DT1 is out, and Fillippone is out again!
Bad luck!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg53252158#msg53252158

[asu]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg53252158#msg53252158

Removed:

dooglus
Foxpup
babo
Flying Hellfish
TookDk
dbshck
mindrust
redsn0w
suchmoon
yahoo62278
ezeminer
DarkStar_
bob123
finaleshot2016
xtraelv
krogothmanhattan
Blacknavy
Goran_
Silent26
tvplus006
gospodin
DdmrDdmr
fillippone
taikuri13
madnessteat
1miau

Added:

HostFat
CanaryInTheMine
fronti
monkeynuts
peloso
vizique
Timelord2067
yogg
willi9974
JayJuanGee
teeGUMES
LFC_Bitcoin
digicoinuser
klarki
The Pharmacist
TryNinja
eddie13
duesoldi
otto_diesel
AlyattesLydia
PHI1618
mosprognoz
Veleor
3meek
cabalism13
anonymousminer
Alex_Sr

[suchmoon]

New DT1 is out, and Fillippone is out again!
Bad luck!

No, it's the new normal (emphasis mine):

This month 124 users were eligible.

[LoyceV]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5117330.msg53252158#msg53252158

I haven't checked your list, but are you sure it's correct? One more user was added than removed.
Update:

arulbero should be among the removed.

Allow me to add some links and more information to your post (and add arulbero):

Removed:
     1. Legendary dooglus (Trust: +15 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     2. Legendary Foxpup (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     3. Legendary babo (Trust: +6 / =2 / -0) (BPIP)
     4. Staff Flying Hellfish (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     5. Legendary TookDk (Trust: +32 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     6. Staff dbshck (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     7. Legendary arulbero (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
     8. Legendary mindrust (Trust: neutral) (BPIP)
     9. Legendary redsn0w (Trust: +11 / =2 / -0) (BPIP)
    10. Legendary suchmoon (Trust: +14 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    11. Legendary yahoo62278 (Trust: +20 / =3 / -0) (BPIP)
    12. Legendary ezeminer (Trust: +26 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    13. Legendary DarkStar_ (Trust: +41 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    14. Legendary bob123 (Trust: neutral) (BPIP)
    15. Hero Member finaleshot2016 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    16. Hero Member xtraelv (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    17. Hero Member krogothmanhattan (Trust: +71 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    18. Hero Member Blacknavy (Trust: +8 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    19. Hero Member Goran_ (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    20. Sr. Member Silent26 (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    21. Hero Member tvplus006 (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    22. Sr. Member gospodin (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    23. Hero Member DdmrDdmr (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    24. Hero Member fillippone (Trust: +7 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    25. Hero Member taikuri13 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    26. Hero Member madnessteat (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    27. Hero Member 1miau (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)

Added:
    1. Staff HostFat (Trust: +2 / =0 / -1) (BPIP)
    2. Donator CanaryInTheMine (Trust: +32 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    3. Legendary fronti (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    4. Legendary monkeynuts (Trust: +32 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
    5. Legendary peloso (Trust: +0 / =1 / -3) (BPIP)
    6. Legendary vizique (Trust: +33 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    7. Legendary Timelord2067 (Trust: +7 / =5 / -1) (BPIP)
    8. Legendary yogg (Trust: +30 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
    9. Legendary willi9974 (Trust: +20 / =0 / -1) (BPIP)
   10. Legendary JayJuanGee (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   11. Hero Member teeGUMES (Trust: +16 / =2 / -1) (BPIP)
   12. Legendary LFC_Bitcoin (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   13. Legendary digicoinuser (Trust: +43 / =1 / -0) (BPIP)
   14. Legendary klarki (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   15. Legendary The Pharmacist (Trust: +27 / =3 / -1) (BPIP)
   16. Legendary TryNinja (Trust: neutral) (BPIP)
   17. Legendary eddie13 (Trust: +4 / =1 / -1) (BPIP)
   18. Hero Member duesoldi (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   19. Hero Member otto_diesel (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   20. Hero Member AlyattesLydia (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   21. Hero Member PHI1618 (Trust: +3 / =0 / -1) (BPIP)
   22. Sr. Member mosprognoz (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   23. Hero Member Veleor (Trust: +6 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   24. Sr. Member 3meek (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   25. Hero Member cabalism13 (Trust: +3 / =2 / -0) (BPIP)
   26. Hero Member anonymousminer (Trust: +33 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)
   27. Hero Member Alex_Sr (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (BPIP)

I have 11 snapshots of users on DT1 (ignoring internal exclusions). I think I'm only missing the very first DT1-distribution (right when this topic was created, I wasn't on DT1 back then).
If someone's interested, these are all the users who've been on DT1 in the past 10 months (and the coming 1 month). The number in front of each name shows how many months they were on DT1 (again: they could have been excluded within DT1):

Code:

    11 tmfp
     11 theymos
     11 sapta
     11 qwk
     11 owlcatz
     11 o_e_l_e_o
     11 mprep
     11 hilariousandco
     11 cryptodevil
     11 coinlocket$
     11 asche
     11 Welsh
     11 TheFuzzStone
     11 Mitchell
     11 LoyceV
     11 Lesbian Cow
     11 Lafu
     11 Jet Cash
     11 Cyrus
     11 Coolcryptovator
     10 yahoo62278
     10 xtraelv
     10 taikuri13
     10 philipma1957
     10 krogothmanhattan
     10 hybridsole
     10 gmaxwell
     10 bL4nkcode
     10 actmyname
     10 achow101
     10 TheNewAnon135246
     10 TECSHARE
     10 OgNasty
     10 LeGaulois
     10 HostFat
     10 Alex_Sr
      9 zazarb
      9 yogg
      9 vizique
      9 suchmoon
      9 nutildah
      9 malevolent
      9 greenplastic
      9 dbshck
      9 chimk
      9 WhiteManWhite
      9 Vod
      9 Veleor
      9 Ticked
      9 The Pharmacist
      9 TMAN
      9 Kryptowerk
      9 DdmrDdmr
      9 DarkStar_
      9 Dabs
      9 BitcoinPenny
      9 Avirunes
      9 1miau
      8 willi9974
      8 theyoungmillionaire
      8 roycilik
      8 morvillz7z
      8 monkeynuts
      8 iasenko
      8 dazedfool
      8 buckrogers
      8 Rmcdermott927
      8 MaoChao
      8 LFC_Bitcoin
      8 Foxpup
      7 teeGUMES
      7 polymerbit
      7 pandukelana2712
      7 micgoossens
      7 kzv
      7 ezeminer
      7 crwth
      7 bones261
      7 anonymousminer
      7 abhiseshakana
      7 Gunthar
      7 DireWolfM14
      7 Anduck
      6 witcher_sense
      6 redsn0w
      6 phantastisch
      6 minerjones
      6 mindrust
      6 lovesmayfamilis
      6 by rallier
      6 TookDk
      6 SebastianJu
      6 Micio
      6 ICOEthics
      6 Hhampuz
      6 Flying Hellfish
      5 ibminer
      5 finaleshot2016
      5 fillippone
      5 bobita
      5 bavicrypto
      5 arulbero
      5 Lydian
      5 Lauda
      5 Halab
      5 EcuaMobi
      4 dooglus
      4 bill gator
      4 babo
      4 asu
      4 Silent26
      4 DIKUL
      3 mole0815
      3 kenzawak
      3 Vispilio
      3 TalkStar
      3 Piggy
      3 PHI1618
      3 JollyGood
      3 CanaryInTheMine
      3 AlyattesLydia
      3 Ale88
      2 wolwoo
      2 tvplus006
      2 mhanbostanci
      2 madnessteat
      2 hedgy73
      2 gospodin
      2 ekiller
      2 be.open
      2 Matthias9515
      2 Last of the V8s
      2 JohnUser
      2 JayJuanGee
      2 Goran_
      2 DiamondCardz
      2 Blazed
      1 peloso
      1 otto_diesel
      1 mosprognoz
      1 mikeywith
      1 klarki
      1 fronti
      1 eddie13
      1 duesoldi
      1 digicoinuser
      1 cabalism13
      1 bob123
      1 TryNinja
      1 Tomatocage
      1 Timelord2067
      1 Kalemder
      1 Hellmouth42
      1 Blacknavy
      1 3meek

Only 20 users haven't ever lost the DT1-lottery (yet).