DefaultTrust changes

[OgNasty]

I find it extraordinarily strange that members like minerjones and philipma1957 have found themselves no longer part of DT1. That doesn't seem appropriate and I hope it changes soon.

It's really up to them:

- Your trust list must include at least 10 users, not including ~distrust entries.

More than enough users included them, but they didn't include enough users by themselves:

Trust list for: philipma1957 (492 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (BPIP)
Back to index (created 2019-02-03 Sun 00.08h)

philipma1957 Trusts:
-ck (154 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
buysolar (0 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
TookDk (15 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
HagssFIN (271 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
generalt (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
kilo17 (1 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)
loshia1974 (29 Merit earned) (Trust feedback) (Trust list) (BPIP)

That's a shame.  Looking at the list, DT would likely benefit from their inclusion.

[1714469258]

1714469258

[suchmoon]

I'm aware of what is causing them to no longer be part of DT1, but I am thinking about the strict requirements for users that are pretty unanimously agreed upon as solid additions to it. I can't think of a better alternative that would be fair, but it just seems out of place to me personally that these two were removed. It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?

minerjones and ibminer were part of previous DT1 so they clearly opted out by removing their trust lists. You can't force them into it nor would it make much sense anyway, since their lists are empty. You can still make their ratings matter by including them in your list.

Not sure about Phil but he's not a fan of DT drama so maybe also opting out. dooglus was last active just over 3 days ago so likely a victim of the inactivity rule. I would suggest to review his trust list and include anyone who you think is worthy. Same goes for any DT1 member I guess. Double up the inclusions if you're worried about someone going on a vacation and taking part of DT2 out.

[LoyceV]

It's really up to them

Is it though? It feels like they have to sign their names to other users and potentially be associated with their actions, and it's possible that nobody has met their criteria to be added onto their trust list. It doesn't seem fair that they should be excluded, because they are conservative with their trust list. Maybe I am being naive to the importance of this criteria.

Part of being on DT1 is adding users to DT2. If you're not adding anyone, why would you be on DT1? They're still included on DT2 anyway.

[actmyname]

It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?

You should have a proper custom list if you're going to be adding others to DT2.

The only thing that is gained from adding users without custom lists to DT1 is that they will have DT1 vote power. It seems better reserved for those that are active in the forum and in trust.

[H8bussesNbicycles]

I'm disappointed in the reaction to this post.

thank you Theymos !

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.

I respectfully disagree. While I figured their scheme would never work and that you would blacklist the lot of them if it did, I really don't see it being attempted for any reason other than to scam people, or to help other scammers, hence my feedback. This is way more than just politics, even if they try to make it appear that that's all it is. I stand by my feedback, and invite anyone who disagrees with it to exclude me from their trust lists. It's all right; I've never given negative trust simply for disagreeing with me, and I'm not about to start now.

im not trying to scam anyone or help anyone scam anyone !


the point is REMOVE LAUDA FROM DT
laudas controlling mentality is bad for this forum
very net-negative and dangerous to freedom
tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil


good that lauda rightfully has negative dt marks again to warn others
if you exclude ognasty again im coming for you next too
my next list will include all who include ognasty and ~ all who ~ ognasty if you kick him out again !

[bill gator]

Part of being on DT1 is adding users to DT2. If you're not adding anyone, why would you be on DT1?

That's valid, good point.

You can't force them into it nor would it make much sense anyway, since their lists are empty. You can still make their ratings matter by including them in your list.

I wouldn't want to force anybody into doing something they don't want to do. I hadn't put as much research into it as I would've liked before speaking on it, because you're right.

Not sure about Phil but he's not a fan of DT drama so maybe also opting out.

I can't think of anybody that is a fan of DT drama. It's sad if anybody is bowing away from being a benefit to the community because of it.

I would suggest to review his trust list and include anyone who you think is worthy.

This is probably a good idea to do for anybody you strongly agree with their ratings/network.
Time to go use Loyce's trust-viewer.

[suchmoon]

tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil

Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

[ac2eugenio]

However if he tried to actually "game" the system to his advantage (not saying he did) should THAT be tagged?

With gaming the system I mean influencing DT list for his own sake or agenda and not for legitimate reasons. See Thule et al.

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.

Look at my trust right now,does their feedback appropriate? accused me of conspiracy by distrusting people that i wanted to? looks like they are abusing the trust system..I am not active for months but i logged in everyday and read some useful threads and then by customizing my trustlist gives me a redtrust?

[Thule]

You want me to show you where current DT members got their merit from ?

Maybe you should start reading how they defended their merit from BS posts.

Actually I would be curious if you have some good read for me  

Edit: Am I included in you "current DT"?

No you left a false feedback.Claiming that i have a personal vendetta against all DT members is a simple lie.I have issues with some DT members thats correct but that has nothing to do will all DT members in general.
I'm also coworked with some DT members in the past and never had a problem with them.Its just the small group who basicly turned an ant into an elephant because of their abuse,arrogance and ignorance which i'm trying to change.
However when i see double standards being holden up by DT members i got an issue with that.
As you know german have a very high level of "Gerechtigkeitssinn" and don't tolerate these kind of abuse.

I wanted to know if I am part of his DT merit investigation

No you arent.I have not the time to check everyone.Community would see it if you would abuse it.

 

While it is debatable if my feedback deserves a neg the content of said feedback is 100% accurate.

I highly doubt that
So you claim

defends anyone speaking up against any DT member hoping to fuel his attempt to actually manipulate the system.

You want me to show you tons of threads of members claiming that they have been abused where i didn't participated because i agreed with DT members opinion ?

Also you claim i try to manipulate the system.If theymos gives me voting rights and the right to support people i like and dislike people i don't like why you call it manipulation of the system ?Isn't the system by theymos constructed this way to actually do so ?
I mean Lauda is allowed to promote people he likes and puts everyone in their distrust list they don't like with the comment you don't deserve to be DT1.
So if Lauda is doing so its ok but when i say to Lauda you don't deserve to be DT1 because of your past abuse its a manipulation of the system ?

You seem very young 27 and seeing you are just a single year on that forum it clearly shows me you are missing a lot of experience and knowledge what was before your time on that forum and the history of some DT members.What i can tell you is they don't appreciate your presence and would kick you immedently if they could to choose somebody else.You are just tolarated by them and nothing more.

Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

Why didn't DT member tagged you in June 2018 when buying an legendary account ?No explanation ?

Look at my trust right now,does their feedback appropriate? accused me of conspiracy by distrusting people that i wanted to? looks like they are abusing the trust system..I am not active for months but i logged in everyday and read some useful threads and then by customizing my trustlist gives me a redtrust?

Foxpop would never do so.He clearly said he would never negative tagg someone who has other opinions than him.

[Lauda]

taikuri13
WhiteManWhite

What are these people doing in DT1? Looks like the ruskis have succesfully colluded their way into DT1.

[asche]

defends anyone speaking up against any DT member hoping to fuel his attempt to actually manipulate the system.

In fact you are right. This is kind of an overstatement. And I was pissed off by the fact you were trying to spin the choice of OP around who was ultimately ok with locking the thread and the neutral.

It was not your fight and I still see it as an attempt of getting more traction for your own fight (which I have no stake in again).

I think my feedbacks speak for themselves, and the feedback I left you was based on that + the ongoing unhealthy fight with the part of DT you are familiar with.

And reconsidering it I might also remove it in very near future. (not like you seem to care anyway)

[H8bussesNbicycles]

tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil

Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

stop lying accusing me of being a scammer or I will red trust you for it like you would do to me if i lied about you !

[JayJuanGee]

In order to be on DT1, you need to have at least 10 people on your trust list. It appears that philipma1957 only has seven as of the 3rd. I'm not certain about minerjones.

I'm aware of what is causing them to no longer be part of DT1, but I am thinking about the strict requirements for users that are pretty unanimously agreed upon as solid additions to it. I can't think of a better alternative that would be fair, but it just seems out of place to me personally that these two were removed. It's possible that a user be a good addition to DT1 and not have a proper custom trust list, right?

Having 10 members on your trust list does not seem to be a difficult requirement for any possible DT1 to fulfill.  Seems reasonable, too.  If a possible DT1 cannot come to a conclusion for 10 members on his/her trust list, then that likely shows that member to be insufficiently involved in the forum, so might be less than preferred for DT1, even if meeting all the other requirements.

[suchmoon]

If theymos gives me voting rights and the right to support people i like and dislike people i don't like why you call it manipulation of the system ?

theymos doesn't give you that right, you have to earn it via merits. It stands to reason that if those merits are sent solely for DT voting purposes then you're gaming the system. Personally I don't give a shit because your harebrained scheme is quite pathetic as it is, but if you're whining about it being called manipulation then perhaps you shouldn't participate in it.

You seem very young 27 and seeing you are just a single year on that forum it clearly shows me you are missing a lot of experience and knowledge what was before your time on that forum and the history of some DT members.

Real classy, old man. Fits right in with this.

Why didn't DT member tagged you in June 2018 when buying an legendary account ?No explanation ?

I don't know, ask the "DT member". I don't think I can tag myself.

[Thule]

tman and owlcatz too but lauda is the greatest evil

Let me just say that your wasted effort is greatly appreciated. Any time you spend tilting at those windmills is not spent scamming someone so that's a net positive for the forum. Thank you and keep trying.

stop lying accusing me of being a scammer or I will red trust you for it like you would do to me if i lied about you !

Being also called a scammer by suchmoon each time i represent facts about his abuse and he has no more arguments.

I asked him like 100 times to show me a single person i scammed in my 7 years and still got no answer.

[OgNasty]

if you exclude ognasty again im coming for you next too
my next list will include all who include ognasty and ~ all who ~ ognasty if you kick him out again !

I appreciate the support and I would question anyone's motivations who finds me to be untrustworthy considering my long history of trustworthy actions on this forum.  However, I would urge people to trust no individual blindly, and try to avoid the politics of this new system while trying to create the most accurate representation of your trust possible.

[Thule]

theymos doesn't give you that right, you have to earn it via merits. It stands to reason that if those merits are sent solely for DT voting purposes then you're gaming the system. Personally I don't give a shit because your harebrained scheme is quite pathetic as it is, but if you want to whine about it being called manipulation then perhaps you shouldn't participate in it.

Haven't seen you got issues of DT members sending themself merits on shitposts or even on 2 words post .How does it come ?

just an example
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2829282.0

How many merits did Lauda earned here for opening a bountry thread which is according DT members the shitty part of that forum ?

[KingZee]

If the "gaming" takes the form of strategically sending a lot of merit, creating sockuppets, and stuff like that, then no. That sort of gaming might get me to blacklist people, in fact. But if it looks more like politics, then that's OK, and that's what H8bussesNbicycles's thread looks like to me.

I respectfully disagree. While I figured their scheme would never work and that you would blacklist the lot of them if it did, I really don't see it being attempted for any reason other than to scam people, or to help other scammers, hence my feedback. This is way more than just politics, even if they try to make it appear that that's all it is. I stand by my feedback, and invite anyone who disagrees with it to exclude me from their trust lists. It's all right; I've never given negative trust simply for disagreeing with me, and I'm not about to start now.

I think everyone here is taking the "easy" way out. It's VERY easy to take the side of the one with power rather than a red-trusted newbie.

But imagine if it were OgNasty that made the thread of removing Lauda from DT? It's no surprise that they're both not fond of each other. What would you guys think then? theymos already cleared out that corroborating and vote advocation is allowed, and I think it's mainly because of this biased standard, where people are fine with unilateral trust list manipulation, but frown upon other parties that do it.

I personally would rather have each person care about their own trust list, and keep outside interactions with each others to a minimum, but if theymos is opening the floodgates then so be it, make subjective opinions and let drama collide with each other to then end up with some sort of mutual agreement.

So right now I actually would recommend Og to make that thread about his disagreements with Lauda, and place all his reasons on why he doesn't want her being on DT, (it IS morally allowed by theymoss standards as it stands now). Not that I'd partake in that drama, but since Lauda is already getting users to include this and exclude that, maybe she'll make her own thread, and this one can stop being the drama-fest it is.

[OgNasty]

So right now I actually would recommend Og to make that thread about his disagreements with Lauda, and place all his reasons on why he doesn't want her being on DT, (it IS morally allowed by theymoss standards as it stands now). Not that I'd partake in that drama, but since Lauda is already getting users to include this and exclude that, maybe she'll make her own thread, and this one can stop being the drama-fest it is.

I don't think it matters who makes the thread.  If you still trust Lauda after the extortion of zeroxal for joining a community organization Lauda wanted to see fail, or the non-transparent escrow where he unilaterally decided to release a huge portion of funds to the scammer behind the failed project that cost users millions of dollars, or him constantly promoting one scam after another with his signature, or his removing/replacing feedback on rmcdermott927's profile so it is always at the top to punish him for standing up for what's right, then nothing is going to convince you what he is or all the wrongdoing that has been done.  One thing I'm certain of, this community has lost far more $ as a result of Lauda's activities than any scam attempt he's ever thwarted.

[Lauda]

taikuri13
WhiteManWhite

What are these people doing in DT1? Looks like the ruskis have succesfully colluded their way into DT1.

Moving on:

Gavin Andresen (0)

Sigh. Some people never learn; looks like this is going to be another few days of sorting out the mess.