DefaultTrust changes

[EcuaMobi]

I have found that it is very difficult to create a good trust list, even if you have only a small number of people on your list.

The recursive implications are so big because people you trust enter on your Depth 0, so you trust them one level deeper than DT1 (assuming you've included DefaultTrust). A way around that would be to add them to an alt-account, and then add just that alt-account to your Trust list.

Having deep set to 2 makes sense if using default trust. However since a few years ago when I set up my own trust list I've been using deep 1. It's much more easy to handle.
So basically I trust feedback left by those I've added to my list and those they've added to theirs, but that's it.

I also have DefaultTrust on my list so as a side effect I only trust DT1 but not DT2. But the solution is adding DT2 users to my list directly if I miss their feedback.

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[Vod]

I have benefited the forum for so many years, and they ruined my account just for a couple of days.

You already explained why in your post - A person can scam millions in a hour, much less a couple days...

[Andrey123]

I have benefited the forum for so many years, and they ruined my account just for a couple of days.

You already explained why in your post - A person can scam millions in a hour, much less a couple days...

It was just an example!
If someone registers with one purpose, to deceive ... then these people do not sit on the forums.
Moreover, do not help other participants.

If you take my situation, I have not done anything bad to anyone.
On the contrary, I try to help and be useful!
So I made a wallet, the developer gave me coins.
Everything works without complaints, this is a photo of my Rapsberry.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2739783.msg50903133#msg50903133

I just do not understand why other participants are so cruel and judge a person by the old posts, when a person was not experienced and did not understand a lot.

It's generally difficult for me to communicate through the Google translator.
Or this attitude to me that I live in Russia ... I do not know ...

[suchmoon]

Or this attitude to me that I live in Russia ... I do not know ...

The reasons for your trust ratings are explained quite well in the ratings themselves and in the references. It has nothing to do with Russia and everything to do with your attempt to get a ridiculously large loan. Please stop polluting unrelated topics with your complaints.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I have benefited the forum for so many years, and they ruined my account just for a couple of days. All that honestly earned, now no one appreciates ....

I checked your trust page, and it isn't exactly filled with years of positive feedback.  In fact all the trusted feedback is negative, with the exception of a neutral from Ecuamobi which he was probably being kind with by not making it a neg.  You have 4 untrusted positives, all from this year and one untrusted negative.  So what's this about "all that honestly earned"?

You had ample warning not to ask for loans without collateral, so your outrage over the tags you received is misplaced.  You should have anticipated that you'd get tagged by DT members.

Or this attitude to me that I live in Russia ... I do not know ...

No, it isn't that.  It's the shady loan requests.

Also, your account isn't ruined.  You can still help people here all you want.  Just because you're red-trusted doesn't mean that people aren't going to listen to what you have to say if you give them some technical advice or whatever.  You just might not be able to get loans very easily.

[El duderino_]

Please review me in ½ year again. I am here to learn and improve.

From what I have seen JanEmil is an active member @collectibles, with trades and honoured them all, also always polite and just a good member with nothing negative attached to his name...

And I like;

Trust don't come from a system but your actions every day.

Cause on this online forum we have to be held accounted till proven wrong...
And if the every day actions are good, polite, contributing etc then I think that means a lot.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

To echo what micG says - The trust system can be deployed how each individual intends it to be. Positive trust doesn’t necessarily have to be for trades only. I’ve done very few trades here but I’ve been here since 2014 & consider myself very, very trustworthy. I’d happily hold a large amount of bitcoin’s for somebody & not even think once about being dishonest.

I think a large part of positive trust here should be from knowing & interacting with people for many years. I’ve left a number of positive trust ratings for people whom I haven’t traded with but I trust.

kenzawak for example, micgoossens, Last of the V8s, I’d send them money first without an escrow.

We’re all responsible for looking after our own custom trust lists & leaving trust ratings that we see suitable. No system will ever be perfect but we have to try our best to make it as good as possible.

[El duderino_]

To echo what micG says - The trust system can be deployed how each individual intends it to be. Positive trust doesn’t necessarily have to be for trades only. I’ve done very few trades here but I’ve been here since 2014 & consider myself very, very trustworthy. I’d happily hold a large amount of bitcoin’s for somebody & not even think once about being dishonest.

I think a large part of positive trust here should be from knowing & interacting with people for many years. I’ve left a number of positive trust ratings for people whom I haven’t traded with but I trust.

kenzawak for example, micgoossens, Last of the V8s, I’d send them money first without an escrow.

We’re all responsible for looking after our own custom trust lists & leaving trust ratings that we see suitable. No system will ever be perfect but we have to try our best to make it as good as possible.

I have the same feeling about LFC and a few other members, I do know that with this attitude you will always run into a member with bad intentions, but I can surely say that those LFC writes about, that I would easily trust them and himself instantly for first send transactions with no escrow, @this moment a have made many trades in a short period with not one single escrow (of-course I wouldn't do that with everybody )

I have one time wrote the same words as you there LFC, instantly the pharmacist responded with something like when somebody says he's to be trusted, then he most likely isn't or something like that..... With this what LFC writes I would say I have no doubt trusting that member as he always have helped me out whenever I ask him something and if I can I will surely help him as well if I can.

Still I think there should be a good trust system and would say to everyone take care and watch out who you trade with etc, but I do like to leave a positive trust as for someone being very helpful (spending there own free time to help another member out like over PM or something) and many members have being helped me out this way..... and this probably is much more meaningful as 5 trades involving .0025BTC or something attached to it, what easily could been resold for the same money and is a zero sum transaction but has gained a few positive trust feedbacks for fast payment, no escrow, easy to deal with...

I do think buys and sells that earn positive trust is very useful and we can see who is active and everything, but positive trust should not only be left for members that have had some BTC-hanging on the line .....

[LFC_Bitcoin]

@mic - Some of the people who were supposedly the most trusted people on the forum ended up being the biggest scammers.

Check out TradeFortress’s trust score - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67058

He stole 41,000 bitcoin’s & said it was a ‘hack.

[El duderino_]

@mic - Some of the people who were supposedly the most trusted people on the forum ended up being the biggest scammers.

Check out TradeFortress’s trust score - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67058

He stole 41,000 bitcoin’s & said it was a ‘hack.

Wow indeed 

Still I do realise its very hard to find a perfect system, but a big deal of not succeeding is just the if you are my friend then I trust you, but if you trust him, then I distrust you, or I distrust you cause that member is on you're trust list and so on..., thats the part that make it looks like a child place instead of a grown up peoples place...

Sometimes you would think its best nobody sees who you do or don't trust? 

Small example I know nutildah have trust in me for not being a scammer and for being a "good, contributing" member, I was on his trust list, still he took me off cause I think tmfp or something distrusts me, I never have a bad feeling for these things and understand if one wants to succeed in something then they probably have to chose sides and trust or distrust members for getting on this DT1....

That been said, it would be a far better place thing, to see who trusts who really, whiteout needing to who you can or cannot like to be in favor for someone else...

[nutildah]

Small example I know nutildah have trust in me for not being a scammer and for being a "good, contributing" member, I was on his trust list, still he took me off cause I think tmfp or something distrusts me, I never have a bad feeling for these things and understand if one wants to succeed in something then they probably have to chose sides and trust or distrust members for getting on this DT1...

To be honest with you mic, yes that was part of the reason but also it's because you (at the time) hadn't written any negative trust ratings, and all your positives were for people I'd personally never interacted with.

There seems to be two camps of trust writers: traders and scambusters. I fall more into the latter category and trading doesn't mean as much to me. 

I do find you trustworthy and I think your path to DT1 is unstoppable with or without my vote. I'd personally like to get a better sense of your ratings without trying to encourage you to write more faster.

[LoyceMobile]

Small example I know nutildah have trust in me for not being a scammer and for being a "good, contributing" member, I was on his trust list, still he took me off cause I think tmfp or something distrusts me, I never have a bad feeling for these things

It always makes me so damn curious why someone takes me off their Trust list.
Too much politics involved for my liking.

[El duderino_]

Small example I know nutildah have trust in me for not being a scammer and for being a "good, contributing" member, I was on his trust list, still he took me off cause I think tmfp or something distrusts me, I never have a bad feeling for these things and understand if one wants to succeed in something then they probably have to chose sides and trust or distrust members for getting on this DT1...

To be honest with you mic, yes that was part of the reason but also it's because you (at the time) hadn't written any negative trust ratings, and all your positives were for people I'd personally never interacted with.

There seems to be two camps of trust writers: traders and scambusters. I fall more into the latter category and trading doesn't mean as much to me. 

I do find you trustworthy and I think your path to DT1 is unstoppable with or without my vote. I'd personally like to get a better sense of your ratings without trying to encourage you to write more faster.

I would think its about the person itself, if one decide to trust another then you would need to trust his judgement of trusting other I know

- I would think the most that I trust are members you're familiar with and my trust feedbacks are all based on my personal experiences with those members or what I witness, thats all whats important to me.
For example, LFC I have had many PM's with involving all kinds of stuff as help as other and based on that I have trust in him and point that out same as with many others of who I send positive feedback...

-Its also members taking there personal free time to do something for 0 cost as XhomerX did for me is something I will not forget and will gain some positive feedback, cause he maybe don't trade, but he for example is a very contributing member and never been seen to have any attempt of scamming anyone, so you have scambusters and give them red-trust, but those that POSITIVE contribute and help out don't they deserve some green-trust, as the scammers deserve red?

-I have made purchases and send +5-6-7K BTC-value whiteout escrow and have received all A+++ I actually have bought more of value and just left it @a members place to become more and send it all @once, so if those things work out well thats a positive feedback worthy IMO.

As I said I understand

-traders, should be pointed out with green and red to see who's dealing correctly and who's not.
-scambusters, are very very useful to tag red where needed.

What I mostly wanna say is, for me the positive feedback that I have been given is all backed by something and are all established members that earns some positive feedback.

As for me if people trust me and I end up DT1 then its so, but its not something i'm after, I would think i'm much more useful to send merit where its due, as I try to become a source...

[nutildah]

-Its also members taking there personal free time to do something for 0 cost as XhomerX did for me is something I will not forget and will gain some positive feedback, cause he maybe don't trade, but he for example is a very contributing member and never been seen to have any attempt of scamming anyone, so you have scambusters and give them red-trust, but those that POSITIVE contribute and help out don't they deserve some green-trust, as the scammers deserve red?

The only problem is someone's ability of willingness to point out scams doesn't necessarily make them trustworthy, that's why there's a lot more red than green in that department. But I do agree with you for the most part about making your decisions based on interactions with members.

As for me if people trust me and I end up DT1 then its so, but its not something i'm after, I would think i'm much more useful to send merit where its due, as I try to become a source...

I'm all but certain you will be favorably considered as a merit source the next time theymos does a new round of issuance.

[suchmoon]

It always makes me so damn curious why someone takes me off their Trust list.
Too much politics involved for my liking.

I'm curious why you're curious  

Doesn't make a difference in how would I conduct myself on the forum and I know there might be a number of causes (political or not) unrelated to me why people do it, so I can't think of a reason why I should care much about being added or removed. Unless they want to discuss it, which is also fine.

[Vod]

He stole 41,000 bitcoin’s & said it was a ‘hack.

Then he shared some of that coin with Quickseller. 

[tmfp]

Small example I know nutildah have trust in me for not being a scammer and for being a "good, contributing" member, I was on his trust list, still he took me off cause I think tmfp or something distrusts me, I never have a bad feeling for these things and understand if one wants to succeed in something then they probably have to chose sides and trust or distrust members for getting on this DT1...

Seeing as you've brought my name up (or something) I'll make my personal position super clear.
I am not part of any "clique" or circle jerk here.
I have nothing to do with "choosing sides", forum politics, doing "trust deals" or scratching backs with nutildah or anyone else.
I explained at the time why I put you on my exclusion list.

You're too nice a guy to be on DT.

I was being a nice guy too.
What I actually meant was I think that your "one of the lads", see-the-best-in-people type nature, however pleasant a drinking partner or reliable a friend it may make you, borders on naivety, which is a quality I personally don't think is desirable on Default Trust. This may be my problem, being over cynical, but it's my honest opinion.
And whilst I'm making enemies of your homies, those are the same reasons I wouldn't support you being a Merit Source either.

[suchmoon]

too nice

I can confirm, it takes a certain type of asshole to be in DT / merit recycling foxhole / etc. But I do believe a nice person can learn the necessary skills too.

Perhaps I'm being too nice now, I tend to mellow on Sundays.

[LoyceMobile]

Emotions are so human, maybe allow only AI on DT?

[Lauda]

Emotions are so human, maybe allow only AI on DT?

All current and foreseeable future AI has emotions built it due to the creator's bias. AI DT would be even worse than the mess that we have today.