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Author Topic: DefaultTrust changes  (Read 73425 times)
suchmoon
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June 11, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
Merited by yogg (3), JayJuanGee (1)
 #1681

Give us/them [i.e. cryptohunter - suchmoon's note] 1 admin power - a black list button for DT

Apologies to everyone who had this person on ignore but this gem is so brilliant that I couldn't let you miss it Smiley

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nutildah
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June 11, 2019, 05:10:01 PM
 #1682

^^^
I'm not reading all that. Is there any way you could condense your rants into like 100 - 200 words? Furthermore, you're a Jr. Member, and you swear you're not cryptohunter ( Roll Eyes) so why do you think anybody should take anything you have to say seriously? As a Jr Member you haven't been here long enough to understand the complexities of the forum or the way the system works... Can you please stop invading thread that don't concern you?

Give us/them [i.e. cryptohunter - suchmoon's note] 1 admin power - a black list button for DT

Apologies to everyone who had this person on ignore but this gem is so brilliant that I couldn't let you miss it Smiley

Forgot about the ignore button, thanks for the reminder.





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The-One-Above-All
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June 11, 2019, 05:15:50 PM
 #1683

^^^
I'm not reading all that. Is there any way you could condense your rants into like 100 - 200 words? Furthermore, you're a Jr. Member, and you swear you're not cryptohunter ( Roll Eyes) so why do you think anybody should take anything you have to say seriously? As a Jr Member you haven't been here long enough to understand the complexities of the forum or the way the system works... Can you please stop invading thread that don't concern you?

This all seems like some off topic garbage, that does not address the valid points that I have just presented regarding the attempt to break up the strangle hold on DT one factions currently has by hand selecting a 100 "more varied" members from a larger pool of DT's.

Also I could have been lurking here since 2010 as far as you know.

Please increase your attention span to 5 mins or greater so that you can read a very brief post like that which was just posted.

I'm pretty sure that someone could in 1 single day gain an understanding of the mechanisms that determine DT and their implications just by reading cryptohunters very informative thread.

Likely it is  too long for your to take in, but you are welcome to have a crack at it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5088852.0
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June 11, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
 #1684

I was always intending to choose a random subset of 100 once more than 100 became eligible. This creates more people who have a credible threat of retaliation: if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason, if not in this month, then in a future month. I think that it pushes people (without forcing people) toward acting in-line with consensus, so that any retaliation against your sent negative trust always gets the sender excluded definitively.
Or it enables semi-random accounts to permanently keep you tagged because they ran an "election" in some local section. I think you've underestimated how evil your forum members are, given the right opportunity.

A good case:
1) I've excluded a big bulk of people from a "turkish election" (this is not decentralized in any way and if I did something similar, you'd have 10x the gang threads you have right now) here: thread.
2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.
4) A few users have been PM'd about this, some of which are in the exclusion list[1].

[1] I took the opposite path of getting adequate number of exclusions and went straight to the root of the problem. You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.

This election was fair and natural. You know Theymos can see all ip logs but you didn't behave fairly.

Quote
2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.

What a lie. Goraset isn't DT2 and he didn't join the election.
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June 11, 2019, 06:06:00 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #1685

This election was fair and natural. You know Theymos can see all ip logs but you didn't behave fairly.
Nonsense. It is nepotism and has nothing to do with decentralization. This is the exact same response that I got the last time I took down some colluding/abusing pricks from the Turkish section. I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.

Quote
2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.
What a lie. Goraset isn't DT2 and he didn't join the election.
Goraset isn't in DT2 because I kicked him out shortly after posting about it. Your brain isn't advanced enough to keep up.

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.
The post that I just responded to (which I also got as a PM) exactly proved my point. None of these people should be anywhere near DT.

@theymos: There also needs to be a way for the trust list of an inactive/dead account to get automatically de-activated (yet remain where it is in the very odd case that such a user does come back). Given your target numbers, both DT1 and DT2 will have many members primarily due to such accounts/old lists.

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Blacknavy
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June 11, 2019, 06:27:40 PM
 #1686

This election was fair and natural. You know Theymos can see all ip logs but you didn't behave fairly.
Nonsense. It is nepotism and has nothing to do with decentralization. This is the exact same response that I got the last time I took down some colluding/abusing pricks from the Turkish section. I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.

Quote
2) I have been retaliatory tagged by a verified scammer a long time ago: profile.
3) The user seems to find themselves now in DT2 due to his buddies. Quite a trustworthy list indeed.
What a lie. Goraset isn't DT2 and he didn't join the election.
Goraset isn't in DT2 because I kicked him out shortly after posting about it. Your brain isn't advanced enough to keep up.

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.
The post that I just responded to (which I also got as a PM) exactly proved my point. None of these people should be anywhere near DT.

@theymos: There also needs to be a way for the trust list of an inactive/dead account to get automatically de-activated (yet remain where it is in the very odd case that such a user does come back). Given your target numbers, both DT1 and DT2 will have many members primarily due to such accounts/old lists.

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.
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June 11, 2019, 06:30:00 PM
 #1687

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.
https://archive.fo/5ERsk#selection-4707.0-4707.55

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.
This was much easier than most cases. Thanks for the threat. Roll Eyes

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The Pharmacist
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June 11, 2019, 06:30:56 PM
 #1688

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

Also I could have been lurking here since 2010 as far as you know.
Nah.  You're cryptohunter and everyone knows it--and why you're using this account now.

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June 11, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
Last edit: June 11, 2019, 08:06:35 PM by Matthias9515
 #1689

Dear attention whore,

You didn't give distrust people who joined the election such as Mindrust, Vispilio and Lydian because they don't speak Turkish. You are racist and you don't have a brain.

But, you know that? We will kick your ass. Don't worry.
https://archive.fo/5ERsk#selection-4707.0-4707.55

You can follow this in order to see how pawns will not behave according to your theory.
This was much easier than most cases. Thanks for the threat. Roll Eyes

Everyone can see what's easy. You're the only easy thing here  Roll Eyes
bones261
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June 11, 2019, 06:34:03 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #1690

Give us/them [i.e. cryptohunter - suchmoon's note] 1 admin power - a black list button for DT

Apologies to everyone who had this person on ignore but this gem is so brilliant that I couldn't let you miss it Smiley

      Cheesy So OAA want the trust system to be centralized and have theymos delegate the responsibilities to "them?" I doubt theymos will even read enough of the post to get to that part, much less consider this. Too bad we can't test this scenario in some sort of sandbox. I'd love to see what the results would be.  Roll Eyes

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.


You are sill on DT2 though. A pretty solid DT2 as well.
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June 11, 2019, 06:48:51 PM
 #1691

Too bad we can't test this scenario in some sort of sandbox. I'd love to see what the results would be.  Roll Eyes

http://loyce.club/trust/2019-06-08_Sat_06.22h/92110.html

You are sill on DT2 though. A pretty solid DT2 as well.

And you can't opt out of it in any feasible way even if you wanted to.

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June 11, 2019, 06:52:54 PM
Merited by Quickseller (1)
 #1692

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

This is just a result of the random selection Theymos just implemented. You will cycle back through next time.

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June 11, 2019, 07:15:49 PM
 #1693

Theymos updated DT1 today. I made a new list of DT1 and DT2 members (unfortunately, DT1 and trust scores are still based on last Saturday's Trust data dump, I will update this next Saturday).
Would this be possible:

A list of former DT2 members who are no longer in DT2 because their "sponsors" got randomly excluded from DT1 (or got banned, which seems to be the second most common cause of departure). Particularly ones that were sponsored by more than one DT1 member. There might be some good people among them who deserve to be considered by other DT1 members.
Of course it's possible Tongue But I didn't keep records of DT2-members. I'll move your suggestion to Vod's "Realish" time DT1 Change Log.

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June 11, 2019, 08:04:30 PM
Last edit: June 11, 2019, 08:22:40 PM by The Pharmacist
 #1694

Oh well, easy come, easy go.  I figured I'd get the boot from DT eventually and I have no hard feelings about it whatsoever.  Things change, and I do thank the people who had me on their trust lists (or still do).  Hopefully everything will work out A-OK from here on out.

This is just a result of the random selection Theymos just implemented. You will cycle back through next time.
A'ight, appreciate the answer.  

I just checked Vod's BPIP 'real-time' DT1 thing, and it says I no longer trust a bunch of people that I still trust, and I have not modified my trust list except to put Yahoo62278 back on it just now.  What in the world is going on?  The world on its ear just pivoted to the other ear and I am the one left with an aching head.  No one else seems affected.

Edit:

It shows DT1-to-DT1 events and since you're no longer in DT1 it thinks you dropped everyone. Vod's working on a fix.
*Whew*

So no need for another MRI of my noodle.  The referring physician of my last one had breath that reeked of hexane and spoiled poon-Tang, though the radiology department was soothing while I was strapped in the tube.  There is nothing wrong with me.  It's all of YOU!

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June 11, 2019, 08:11:02 PM
 #1695

I just checked Vod's BPIP 'real-time' DT1 thing, and it says I no longer trust a bunch of people that I still trust, and I have not modified my trust list except to put Yahoo62278 back on it just now.  What in the world is going on?  The world on its ear just pivoted to the other ear and I am the one left with an aching head.  No one else seems affected.

It shows DT1-to-DT1 events and since you're no longer in DT1 it thinks you dropped everyone. Vod's working on a fix.

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June 11, 2019, 08:49:45 PM
Last edit: June 11, 2019, 09:03:16 PM by PHI1618
 #1696

All DT1 members are now aware that there will be months we are excluded, and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
A good safety-net is to follow my trust list as close as possible. New additions of the day:

Quote
~silverfuture
~kroneko
~xyz
~cygan
~2run
~by rallier
~teramit
~Buchi-88
~quasimodo
~mhanbostanci
~Halmater
~Matthias9515
~PHI1618
~sonerbo
~BitcoinTurk
~bobita
~wolwoo
~gorkem19888
~gospodin
~trendcoin
~Bthd
~ziya1453
~Kalemder
~ekiller
~AlyattesLydia
~Asber
~HARDCRACKERS
~jopen
~Leteravian
~ugurum15
~addtelegrams
~goraset

More are probably needed but the list is getting too large too fast to review everyone.


Dear Lauda;
Do you know me? Have you read my messages before? Have we had a long conversation with you before? Have you ever heard of me before?
These questions apply to all members of your distrust.
I think your answer is "no"

But you still don't trust people you don't know by seeing yourself as the security guard of this forum. Adding people you don't know and never see to your distrust list for no reason is nonsense.

The Turkish section needed a DT member. Since the members in the Turkish board did not know the use of the "trust system" very well, Matthias guided them. And theymos have identified a few DT members from our department. If the use of the turst system had been known, the DT members would have already emerged from Turkish board. Matthias has just accomplished what it should be.

But despite all this, you found people to be unreliable because they were only Turkish with all your recklessness. I don't think this is a realistic explanation of what you're doing. We're tired of your racist behavior!
The Turkish section is one of the largest local sections of this forum. And you can't stop it. I hope your racism, one of the biggest humanitarian problems in this world, will come to an end.




By the way, as theymos mentioned, I find you unreliable too and add you to my distrust list.
I'm not a belligerent or vindictive person. I prefer to act with logic. But your irrationality required it. I'm sorry for this.
I was always intending to choose a random subset of 100 once more than 100 became eligible. This creates more people who have a credible threat of retaliation: if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason, if not in this month, then in a future month. I think that it pushes people (without forcing people) toward acting in-line with consensus, so that any retaliation against your sent negative trust always gets the sender excluded definitively.

Next month, maybe I'm off the DT list. Maybe you'il be a DT member again. These are things that can always change.
I hope you get rid of this dangerous mindset. I'm just a member who tries to improve the Turkish board I write. I'm so simple like this.
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June 11, 2019, 08:54:40 PM
Merited by mindrust (1)
 #1697

The random monthly exclusions thing implemented by theymos sucks. It should just be the first 100 people who got included in the new DT1 system & cut it at that.

I don’t like the random in & out proposal at all.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
Not cool imo!

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June 11, 2019, 09:21:54 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), LFC_Bitcoin (1)
 #1698

We're tired of your racist behavior!
-snip-
I hope your racism, one of the biggest humanitarian problems in this world, will come to an end.
Yawn, the Ruskis are smarter than the Turkis in their DT shenanigans. You get caught red-handed, and you get excluded appropriately. Maybe you guys just miss the 100+ accounts I wrecked in Bitmixer. Roll Eyes
I'm just waiting for someone to play the victim/discrimination card again so that I can whoop your asses even further. Predictable and childish play; time to grow up.
The post is more boring than I thought.

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral at best when it comes to their trustworthiness), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's when the real fun begins.

Side note:
It seems that a lot of members think that:
a) being a forum moderator, and/or
b) being a merit source,
warrants someone being in their trust list. This is very wrong.

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June 11, 2019, 09:27:01 PM
 #1699

It’s bull shit tbh, a few really respectable OG members dropped this time for a month, at least?
This is nothing. Wait until the list grows to over the desired 250 people (most of which will be neutral when it comes to their trustworthiness at best), and then a month comes where most old DT members don't get selected. That's then the real fun begins.

It’s going to be an absolute shit show. Scammers are going to lose their red trust rating left by legit DT1 members for a whole month. That opens the door for some pretty shitty possibilities.

There’s way too many DT1 members, it needs to be cut to probably even less than 100 & I don’t even care if I’m on it or not.

Maybe you should be required to have a minimum of 10 DT1 members trusting you to qualify or something.
I foresee troubles ahead. 

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June 11, 2019, 09:29:06 PM
Merited by The-One-Above-All (1)
 #1700

if you give someone negative trust for some stupid reason, you have reason to worry about them or a close friend of theirs negative-trusting you for a similarly stupid reason

That is a great theory, the main issue with the trust system is the misuse of the negative trust in general, only a handful of people stick to the proper use of it , the rest use it for everything they see fit and of course it's always "justifiable" to tag someone you don't like, there is a dozen of "reasons" for anyone to tag anyone for the sake of it.

However, this approach won't solve the problem IMO, some people will keep waiting for next month only to get their "vengeance", the best approach about this is to randomly select 5 members who "give someone negative trust for some stupid reason" and blacklist them from DT forever, then everyone will start using the trust system the way it was intended be used.

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