DefaultTrust changes

[mikeywith]

A member can easily just tag a lot of scammy accounts and work their way up to DT in order to pull off a really big scam.

well but that's the case with everyone else, some people trade with DT members just to get positive feedback "trust farming" and you can see many examples of feedback from DT members even for small deals.

escrow agents may also plan a large exist "scam" , people with higher ranks can also use their rank to scam , The risk is there in every corner of the internet.

besides, you do not need to trust a member to trust their feedback, when you buy something of amazon or ebay and you check the feedback, you don't need to trust the reviewers, I trust many people's feedback but probably only 1 or 2 of them with money, and i am sure that's the case with everyone else. so trust and feedback should really be treated separately IMO.

so if a newbie or member rank gets into DT and spend time and effort tagging scammers,and proves himself to be a good DT member, it does not mean one should trust him with money, that's a whole different subject.

[1714529355]

1714529355

[1miau]

What exactly is the opposite of tagging scammers? Is it, being tagged by scammers?

Who knows.  The problem with people getting on DT by way of scam-busting is that it doesn't really prove how honest that person is, and even though that is (I think) the reason I was put on DT, I still believe that.  A member can easily just tag a lot of scammy accounts and work their way up to DT in order to pull off a really big scam.  I don't know if that has actually been done, but it's possible.  At least if you have a history of transactions involving money you could have scammed, there's some real basis for trust.

Depends on how they are getting into DT. If they are only echoing other users negative feedback and are doing no own digging, I would consider them not worthy of being DT. It's somehow a "proof a work" if someone is spending much time for his reports about scams (such like ICOEthics for example).
It would be easier for scammers to get into DT (or at least to receive some positive feedbacks) by just making deals with highly trusted DT members. That would be a fast and low-risk method if they go always first, receive a few green ratings and finally pull their exit-scam when someone else has to go first. Similar to the marcotheminer issue where also trust was tried to build by trading. 

Scammers would most likely choose part two (trading) for their scams because part one (scammer research) takes too much time and effort.

[eddie13]

The problem with people getting on DT by way of scam-busting is that it doesn't really prove how honest that person is

The big point is that it does not prove this person's politics are good either..

Some seem to like the idea of a bunch of new rules so they can tag for more things, limiting users freedom, and some have terrible views on freedom of speech and freedom to be anonymous and have all sorts of crazy ideas to regulate anything they can think of..

I don't care how many scammers someone tags, if they disagree with the main principles of Bitcoin I don't think they should be on DT.
Bitcoin is the opposite of authority, censorship, and regulation.

This is not only voting for what tags show up, this is voting for the government..

[willi9974]

Good Morning all,

at first time a thanks to 1Miau, he has informed me about this post.

I'm sorry that I had so many in my trust list, but I was not aware in detail. In the first step, I cleared up my trust list and will spend more attention to it.

A little info about me
- Crypto is my biggest hobby besides geocacheing
- i organized group buys from china (Bitmaintech)
- Offer a free escrow service (protection against SCAM out of conviction and without profit)
- I was proposed in the German area as a moderator
- a live witout crypto is not possible for me  

I like to support the community and spend a lot of time. For that reason, I would be very happy if you removed the negative trust and some users distrusts (some user add mi als non trusted member).

For questions or further suggestions to my person or my trust list, just come to me and contact me.

PS: Sorry for my English, it's not the best :-)

Finally, I say thank you, that such errors are shown quickly and i have the possibillity to fix that.


Greetings from Bavaria, for me the best place in germany
Willi

[LoyceV]

~and some users distrusts (some user add mi als non trusted member)

Excluding you from a trust list doesn't mean they don't trust you (in trades), it means they don't trust your judgement of other users. You probably had a misunderstanding of how the trust system works.
I'm curious to see your new Trust list, which I'll post tomorrow.

[El duderino_]

~and some users distrusts (some user add mi als non trusted member)

Excluding you from a trust list doesn't mean they don't trust you (in trades), it means they don't trust your judgement of other users. You probably had a misunderstanding of how the trust system works.
I'm curious to see your new Trust list, which I'll post tomorrow.

Yeah, but if one distrusts you, then its just their opinion man, i'm distrusted as well by 2 members, and they will have their own reasons for it....
But I will never ask anyone to ADD or REMOVE me for their trust.... everybody is big enough to make their decisions for theirself.

[OgNasty]

Assuming Satoshi was still around and hadn't scammed anybody, I have no doubt whatsoever that he'd be on DT1.  And under those conditions, he'd deserve to be.  If you can go 10 years without showing evidence of scamming behavior and you actually created bitcoin....yeah, that's DT material IMO.

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

[OgNasty]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

[Qulian]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

[TECSHARE]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

Yes, everyone listen to the obvious sock puppet of another member here without the balls to speak using their main username. This is a perfect demonstration of what he was talking about. People who operate openly and rank up in this system via time and effort are inherently targets of those who manipulate these systems for their own gain. The decent people doing things the right way then have their overt operations and effort used as leverage against them, while the abusers operate in the dark to increase their own control by displacing them. This is again why I advocate for a standard of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws before leaving negative ratings, because without objective substantiation the trust system simply becomes a tool of extortion of the few people left trying to do it the right way.

[Qulian]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

Yes, everyone listen to the obvious sock puppet of another member here without the balls to speak using their main username. This is a perfect demonstration of what he was talking about. People who operate openly and rank up in this system via time and effort are inherently targets of those who manipulate these systems for their own gain. The decent people doing things the right way then have their overt operations and effort used as leverage against them, while the abusers operate in the dark to increase their own control by displacing them. This is again why I advocate for a standard of theft, violation of contractual agreement, or violation of applicable laws before leaving negative ratings, because without objective substantiation the trust system simply becomes a tool of extortion of the few people left trying to do it the right way.

Sure! Everything is a "perfect demonstration" of whatever ognasty or you say 
I just posted something obvious so I really don't need "everyone listen to" me. People can read.

You both should try and come back to the real world instead of convincing each other there's a conspiracy against "the 2 only remaining successful users here". You just embarrass yourselves.

[TECSHARE]

Sure! Everything is a "perfect demonstration" of whatever ognasty or you say 
I just posted something obvious so I really don't need "everyone listen to" me. People can read.

You both should try and come back to the real world instead of convincing each other there's a conspiracy against "the 2 only remaining successful users here". You just embarrass yourselves.

Man, that obvious sock puppet is totes making me feel marginalized right now. You know what is embarrassing? Nutless little turds like you who can't even stand by their own words so they need to use socks.

[Qulian]

Sure! Everything is a "perfect demonstration" of whatever ognasty or you say 
I just posted something obvious so I really don't need "everyone listen to" me. People can read.

You both should try and come back to the real world instead of convincing each other there's a conspiracy against "the 2 only remaining successful users here". You just embarrass yourselves.

Man, that obvious sock puppet is totes making me feel marginalized right now. You know what is embarrassing? Nutless little turds like you who can't even stand by their own words so they need to use socks.

I see you're out of arguments now. Sure. Let's ignore everything because this may not be my main account 
What an overwhelming (and original) reasoning 

[TECSHARE]

Sure! Everything is a "perfect demonstration" of whatever ognasty or you say  
I just posted something obvious so I really don't need "everyone listen to" me. People can read.

You both should try and come back to the real world instead of convincing each other there's a conspiracy against "the 2 only remaining successful users here". You just embarrass yourselves.

Man, that obvious sock puppet is totes making me feel marginalized right now. You know what is embarrassing? Nutless little turds like you who can't even stand by their own words so they need to use socks.

I see you're out of arguments now. Sure. Let's ignore everything because this may not be my main account  
What an overwhelming (and original) reasoning  

I don't need any other arguments because by you appearing here and using your sock to take potshots you are simply reinforcing my point that people who operate openly and honestly simply have their reputations used as leverage against them by sad little turds like you who see this community as a tool of self enrichment rather than something to be protected. I am willing to back my words up with my reputation, you are here only for self enrichment and a compulsive need to control others as you hide in the shadows playing your little nutless games. You like most unscrupulous people mistake your lack of principles for being smart like you invented the lie. You aren't smart you are just willing to fuck people to serve yourself. That is the difference between you and me.

[Quickseller]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

I think OgN speaking out against a certain group of people has made him a target...

[TheNewAnon135246]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

I think OgN speaking out against a certain group of people has made him a target...

I think it might be a mixture of both.

[Quickseller]

I think if he was around he’d be blamed for people losing money in free markets, called a scammer for his holdings, and would be a target for jealous individuals who were unhappy with their own lives. Pretty much the same way every other successful long term member here is treated.  Hence why we’re becoming more and more rare.

Your username really should be eGONasty.

My point exactly.

You were a "target" there for making absurd claims showing your own ego doesn't correspond with reality, not because you're a "successful long term member"

I think OgN speaking out against a certain group of people has made him a target...

I think it might be a mixture of both.

If you operate under the assumption that OgN has an overly inflated ego, or is delusional in terms of his success (I don't agree this is the case, but hypothetically...), I don't see any reason why anyone would want to harm his reputation -- if this was the case, he would do this to himself. However, OgN criticizing a certain group of powerful people does give an incentive to these people to try to discredit him to allow them to maintain power, and ultimately the income derived from said power.

[bones261]

If you operate under the assumption that OgN has an overly inflated ego, or is delusional in terms of his success (I don't agree this is the case, but hypothetically...), I don't see any reason why anyone would want to harm his reputation -- if this was the case, he would do this to himself. However, OgN criticizing a certain group of powerful people does give an incentive to these people to try to discredit him to allow them to maintain power, and ultimately the income derived from said power.

    I didn't realize that OgN should be treated like some saint and be beyond reproach. I thought that spot was reserved for satoshi only. Also, I must be doing it wrong since my stint of being a merit source for over a year and DT for a couple months hasn't earned me 1 satoshi.  Hence why I finally broke down and joined a signature campaign and gave up my hat avatar.  

[TECSHARE]

If you operate under the assumption that OgN has an overly inflated ego, or is delusional in terms of his success (I don't agree this is the case, but hypothetically...), I don't see any reason why anyone would want to harm his reputation -- if this was the case, he would do this to himself. However, OgN criticizing a certain group of powerful people does give an incentive to these people to try to discredit him to allow them to maintain power, and ultimately the income derived from said power.

    I didn't realize that OgN should be treated like some saint and be beyond reproach. I thought that spot was reserved for satoshi only. Also, I must be doing it wrong since my stint of being a merit source for over a year and DT for a couple months hasn't earned me 1 satoshi.  Hence why I finally broke down and joined a signature campaign and gave up my hat avatar.  

Again, Bones I don't know you you keep holding water for these people. You otherwise seem genuine and reasonable most of the time. I think you and I both know your statement is disingenuous and distorting what is actually being said here. This kind of stuff along with some of your inclusions are the only reasons you are not on my list.