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Author Topic: ⚽UEFA Europa League Discussion Thread -- 2021/22 Winners: Eintracht Frankfurt!  (Read 34365 times)
Pulsar77
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October 08, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
 #2621

PSV - Monaco could be one of the interesting games on the next match week. These teams both got 1 win and 1 draw so far. PSV were already doing good in their league but Monaco newly started to get satisfying results in the Ligue 1. They have a 3-win streak which should help them perform much better in the coming games. This game is included in those games too. Maybe it will be a tough away game but Monaco can still fight really hard against PSV and get at least a point. It is very likely to see both teams scoring also.

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October 08, 2021, 06:41:45 PM
 #2622

The Europa League can be one of the really interesting tournaments among the international ones. Because every game is open for any kind of surprise all the time. For example, who would have said that Legia would get a win against Leicester? But they did this. So this tournament is like an opportunity for smaller clubs to achieve the best they can. This is fun and boring at the same time. Because I don't see the same competition level as the one in the Champions League.
Usually the teams that play in the European leagues have a balanced strength, so this provides equal opportunities for all teams to be able to win the championship trophy, besides that in my opinion the European League is no less prestigious than the Champions League, although so far the European League competition is often considered the European continent second caste cup.
In addition, for the team that wins the European Cup, of course, they will have the opportunity to win the inter-club world cup later and what is certain is that the European League champion will certainly be an automatically get tickets to play in the Champions League next season.

If you pay attention to UCL too, you will get a more terrible surprise there. Who thought Sheriff Tiraspol would win against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu? I'm sure everyone will choose Madrid to bet whether it's ML, HT/FT, AH bets and many more. Well, I personally still think these two teams might be lucky enough to take advantage of the situation well, because next Legia will play away against Napoli and as we know, Napoli this season are looking very good in Serie A but not so good in this tournament. But with the previous results, of course these two teams will take advantage of each other's weaknesses in every line but I personally believe, both Legia in EL and Sheriff Tiraspol in UCL will end here and in the second leg later, if they can still be consistent then of course that no longer luck.
Yes, I also think that the sheriff victory in the champions league is just luck and I personally am not sure if they will be able to qualify for the next phase, but it looks like the european league will be an alternative for the sheriff to show the quality of their game later, while Napoli, with a schedule which is dense as it is now, I think their main focus is just to win the scudetto and of course with the current Napoli squad they have to be able to choose between the european league or the scudetto.

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.

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October 08, 2021, 08:40:16 PM
 #2623

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.
Here I agree with you just giving all to luck is never been good idea because just with luck you can't win matches against teams like Real Madrid you need some good effort as well. In first match against Shakhtar they were okay as they have 100% record at home so mostly feel it's just good game, and they won but in second game they have conversation rate 100% which help them to win as Read Madrid have 18 shots on goal and just one goal and Sheriff Tiraspol done just 2 shots both works for them here we have no science who can explain about this all just some effort and luck both works.

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October 09, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
 #2624

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.
Here I agree with you just giving all to luck is never been good idea because just with luck you can't win matches against teams like Real Madrid you need some good effort as well. In first match against Shakhtar they were okay as they have 100% record at home so mostly feel it's just good game, and they won but in second game they have conversation rate 100% which help them to win as Read Madrid have 18 shots on goal and just one goal and Sheriff Tiraspol done just 2 shots both works for them here we have no science who can explain about this all just some effort and luck both works.

Yes, you are right. But they also played well with the addition of a little bit of luck I'd say. As they got so much less chance than Real Madrid as they had much less possession but they were able to convert those small amounts of chances which created the difference in the game. As you said that Real took 18 shots and if I'm not wrong they also had about 40 crosses but were not able to convert any. Their only goal came from a penalty. So I'd have to appreciate how well Sheriff played.

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October 09, 2021, 12:59:06 PM
 #2625

The Europa League can be one of the really interesting tournaments among the international ones. Because every game is open for any kind of surprise all the time. For example, who would have said that Legia would get a win against Leicester? But they did this. So this tournament is like an opportunity for smaller clubs to achieve the best they can. This is fun and boring at the same time. Because I don't see the same competition level as the one in the Champions League.
Usually the teams that play in the European leagues have a balanced strength, so this provides equal opportunities for all teams to be able to win the championship trophy, besides that in my opinion the European League is no less prestigious than the Champions League, although so far the European League competition is often considered the European continent second caste cup.
In addition, for the team that wins the European Cup, of course, they will have the opportunity to win the inter-club world cup later and what is certain is that the European League champion will certainly be an automatically get tickets to play in the Champions League next season.

If you pay attention to UCL too, you will get a more terrible surprise there. Who thought Sheriff Tiraspol would win against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu? I'm sure everyone will choose Madrid to bet whether it's ML, HT/FT, AH bets and many more. Well, I personally still think these two teams might be lucky enough to take advantage of the situation well, because next Legia will play away against Napoli and as we know, Napoli this season are looking very good in Serie A but not so good in this tournament. But with the previous results, of course these two teams will take advantage of each other's weaknesses in every line but I personally believe, both Legia in EL and Sheriff Tiraspol in UCL will end here and in the second leg later, if they can still be consistent then of course that no longer luck.
Yes, I also think that the sheriff victory in the champions league is just luck and I personally am not sure if they will be able to qualify for the next phase, but it looks like the european league will be an alternative for the sheriff to show the quality of their game later, while Napoli, with a schedule which is dense as it is now, I think their main focus is just to win the scudetto and of course with the current Napoli squad they have to be able to choose between the european league or the scudetto.

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.


Real is undoubtedly a better and more experienced team than Sheriff but they played a bad game and completely deservedly lost.
It is obvious that Real is still not playing at the top level and has certain problems in the game which does not diminish the size of the Sheriff's victory.
Sheriff has been playing in European competitions for a long time, as far as I remember they also played in European League groups and their success is not accidental but is the result of long and hard work and investment.
This is a signpost for other, small clubs, how to achieve a good result in European competitions.


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October 09, 2021, 01:11:31 PM
 #2626

Yes, I also think that the sheriff victory in the champions league is just luck and I personally am not sure if they will be able to qualify for the next phase, but it looks like the european league will be an alternative for the sheriff to show the quality of their game later, while Napoli, with a schedule which is dense as it is now, I think their main focus is just to win the scudetto and of course with the current Napoli squad they have to be able to choose between the european league or the scudetto.
I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.
Real is undoubtedly a better and more experienced team than Sheriff but they played a bad game and completely deservedly lost.
It is obvious that Real is still not playing at the top level and has certain problems in the game which does not diminish the size of the Sheriff's victory.
Sheriff has been playing in European competitions for a long time, as far as I remember they also played in European League groups and their success is not accidental but is the result of long and hard work and investment.
This is a signpost for other, small clubs, how to achieve a good result in European competitions.

^^ I won't say that Sheriff's win against Real is totally luck. Yes a bit of luck was there, but they really did play well if you watch the match. They got so much less opportunity to score compared to Real Madrid but they converted each chance they got. Having a 100% conversion rate against Real is always something huge. Also, Real Madrid is having some defensive problems since Ramos and Varane left. But we cannot deny that Sheriff had a great match and they deserved the win.

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October 09, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
 #2627

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.
Here I agree with you just giving all to luck is never been good idea because just with luck you can't win matches against teams like Real Madrid you need some good effort as well. In first match against Shakhtar they were okay as they have 100% record at home so mostly feel it's just good game, and they won but in second game they have conversation rate 100% which help them to win as Read Madrid have 18 shots on goal and just one goal and Sheriff Tiraspol done just 2 shots both works for them here we have no science who can explain about this all just some effort and luck both works.

Yes, you are right. But they also played well with the addition of a little bit of luck I'd say. As they got so much less chance than Real Madrid as they had much less possession but they were able to convert those small amounts of chances which created the difference in the game. As you said that Real took 18 shots and if I'm not wrong they also had about 40 crosses but were not able to convert any. Their only goal came from a penalty. So I'd have to appreciate how well Sheriff played.
Glad you guys understand my point because a football game is not a gambling dice game that is based on luck and for a low-level club like FC Sheriff Tiraspol to win against it takes a lot of hard work and better understanding that they have to make every chances count which is what they used against Real Madrid.


The Europa League can be one of the really interesting tournaments among the international ones. Because every game is open for any kind of surprise all the time. For example, who would have said that Legia would get a win against Leicester? But they did this. So this tournament is like an opportunity for smaller clubs to achieve the best they can. This is fun and boring at the same time. Because I don't see the same competition level as the one in the Champions League.
Usually the teams that play in the European leagues have a balanced strength, so this provides equal opportunities for all teams to be able to win the championship trophy, besides that in my opinion the European League is no less prestigious than the Champions League, although so far the European League competition is often considered the European continent second caste cup.
In addition, for the team that wins the European Cup, of course, they will have the opportunity to win the inter-club world cup later and what is certain is that the European League champion will certainly be an automatically get tickets to play in the Champions League next season.

If you pay attention to UCL too, you will get a more terrible surprise there. Who thought Sheriff Tiraspol would win against Real Madrid at the Santiago Bernabéu? I'm sure everyone will choose Madrid to bet whether it's ML, HT/FT, AH bets and many more. Well, I personally still think these two teams might be lucky enough to take advantage of the situation well, because next Legia will play away against Napoli and as we know, Napoli this season are looking very good in Serie A but not so good in this tournament. But with the previous results, of course these two teams will take advantage of each other's weaknesses in every line but I personally believe, both Legia in EL and Sheriff Tiraspol in UCL will end here and in the second leg later, if they can still be consistent then of course that no longer luck.
Yes, I also think that the sheriff victory in the champions league is just luck and I personally am not sure if they will be able to qualify for the next phase, but it looks like the european league will be an alternative for the sheriff to show the quality of their game later, while Napoli, with a schedule which is dense as it is now, I think their main focus is just to win the scudetto and of course with the current Napoli squad they have to be able to choose between the european league or the scudetto.

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.


Real is undoubtedly a better and more experienced team than Sheriff but they played a bad game and completely deservedly lost.
It is obvious that Real is still not playing at the top level and has certain problems in the game which does not diminish the size of the Sheriff's victory.
Sheriff has been playing in European competitions for a long time, as far as I remember they also played in European League groups and their success is not accidental but is the result of long and hard work and investment.
This is a signpost for other, small clubs, how to achieve a good result in European competitions.


I agree with you but there's a difference between a football club playing games at the top level and using the chances they get to score goals. An example is Barca during the set of Puyol, Iniesta, Alves, Xavi, Messi etc when they played against Man United in the Champion League final. I don't remember the year.
Barca played a top class football but has a problem in scoring goals.
Concern the Sheriff club, I totally agree with you.

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October 13, 2021, 06:30:15 AM
 #2628

I agree with you but there's a difference between a football club playing games at the top level and using the chances they get to score goals. An example is Barca during the set of Puyol, Iniesta, Alves, Xavi, Messi etc when they played against Man United in the Champion League final. I don't remember the year.
Barca played a top class football but has a problem in scoring goals.
Concern the Sheriff club, I totally agree with you.


Wow I remember that game, really for that time Manchester United was very scary, and Barcelona was beginning to head towards a great future ahead, however, when we take that time into account, they really need to remember those glorious days, because right now they are losing everything. Real Madrid has maintained a respectable level, however the game with the Sheriff was clearly much inferior, and in football you cannot give opportunities, you cannot play so soft because you lose once and for all. I see Real Madrid as superior to Barcelona, I think the only toughest rival in the league is Atlético de Madrid.

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October 13, 2021, 01:48:14 PM
 #2629

I agree with you but there's a difference between a football club playing games at the top level and using the chances they get to score goals. An example is Barca during the set of Puyol, Iniesta, Alves, Xavi, Messi etc when they played against Man United in the Champion League final. I don't remember the year.
Barca played a top class football but has a problem in scoring goals.
Concern the Sheriff club, I totally agree with you.
Wow I remember that game, really for that time Manchester United was very scary, and Barcelona was beginning to head towards a great future ahead, however, when we take that time into account, they really need to remember those glorious days, because right now they are losing everything. Real Madrid has maintained a respectable level, however the game with the Sheriff was clearly much inferior, and in football you cannot give opportunities, you cannot play so soft because you lose once and for all. I see Real Madrid as superior to Barcelona, I think the only toughest rival in the league is Atlético de Madrid.

One thing we can say for sure is that Real Madrid and Barcelona lost the legacy they had for decades now and it will take time for them to get back to the same level they once were. Barca and Real always had two or more iconic players at their squad every time. But now, that barely happens. We just saw Real lose to Sheriff with a full squad which is very unfortunate. Also, Barcelona is having a terrible season after Messi left. So, they can always take some motivation from their glorious past but it is sure that they are not the best clubs in Europe right now.

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October 13, 2021, 03:01:13 PM
 #2630

I agree with you but there's a difference between a football club playing games at the top level and using the chances they get to score goals. An example is Barca during the set of Puyol, Iniesta, Alves, Xavi, Messi etc when they played against Man United in the Champion League final. I don't remember the year.
Barca played a top class football but has a problem in scoring goals.
Concern the Sheriff club, I totally agree with you.
Wow I remember that game, really for that time Manchester United was very scary, and Barcelona was beginning to head towards a great future ahead, however, when we take that time into account, they really need to remember those glorious days, because right now they are losing everything. Real Madrid has maintained a respectable level, however the game with the Sheriff was clearly much inferior, and in football you cannot give opportunities, you cannot play so soft because you lose once and for all. I see Real Madrid as superior to Barcelona, I think the only toughest rival in the league is Atlético de Madrid.

One thing we can say for sure is that Real Madrid and Barcelona lost the legacy they had for decades now and it will take time for them to get back to the same level they once were. Barca and Real always had two or more iconic players at their squad every time. But now, that barely happens. We just saw Real lose to Sheriff with a full squad which is very unfortunate. Also, Barcelona is having a terrible season after Messi left. So, they can always take some motivation from their glorious past but it is sure that they are not the best clubs in Europe right now.
This is actually what you get when one man does majority of the finishes or if a particular formation is used too often so as to suit the style of play specifically for just one player alone. Real Madrid and Barcelona has lots of star players but limited their resources just to feature one star player too often and now they are struggling with meeting up the standard now those icons are gone. All this two teams need is a reformation. Get a new tactics and bounce back to the field
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October 13, 2021, 09:10:03 PM
 #2631

I agree with you but there's a difference between a football club playing games at the top level and using the chances they get to score goals. An example is Barca during the set of Puyol, Iniesta, Alves, Xavi, Messi etc when they played against Man United in the Champion League final. I don't remember the year.
Barca played a top class football but has a problem in scoring goals.
Concern the Sheriff club, I totally agree with you.
Wow I remember that game, really for that time Manchester United was very scary, and Barcelona was beginning to head towards a great future ahead, however, when we take that time into account, they really need to remember those glorious days, because right now they are losing everything. Real Madrid has maintained a respectable level, however the game with the Sheriff was clearly much inferior, and in football you cannot give opportunities, you cannot play so soft because you lose once and for all. I see Real Madrid as superior to Barcelona, I think the only toughest rival in the league is Atlético de Madrid.

One thing we can say for sure is that Real Madrid and Barcelona lost the legacy they had for decades now and it will take time for them to get back to the same level they once were. Barca and Real always had two or more iconic players at their squad every time. But now, that barely happens. We just saw Real lose to Sheriff with a full squad which is very unfortunate. Also, Barcelona is having a terrible season after Messi left. So, they can always take some motivation from their glorious past but it is sure that they are not the best clubs in Europe right now.
This is actually what you get when one man does majority of the finishes or if a particular formation is used too often so as to suit the style of play specifically for just one player alone. Real Madrid and Barcelona has lots of star players but limited their resources just to feature one star player too often and now they are struggling with meeting up the standard now those icons are gone. All this two teams need is a reformation. Get a new tactics and bounce back to the field
@LUCKMCFLY Real Madrid seems superior but if they keep playing the way they played against the Sheriff club they will lose it and for Atletico Madrid, I always respect them cause they understand the game of football.
@BALIK Barcelona and Real Madrid have been one of the most superior teams for decades and i don't see anything bad if they lose now cause they can't hold the position forever for they also need to learn from their mistake at some point.
@dbc23 You are totally right and they are learning their lesson now for believing only some major star players worth playing a certain position. However, the reform needs to do fast or it is the football club we least expect that defeat them.

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October 19, 2021, 03:31:55 PM
 #2632

Totally overlooked that there's one game starting today, Celtic held 0-0 at home at HT right now. Didn't even realise it was playing til I got an alert of HT results. Way to start the game in the afternoon on a working day, huh Europa Wink

Anyway, looks pretty dire for the Scottish team. They need to win this for a chance to qualify, 1 point to the weakest team in the group isn't going to cut it.

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October 19, 2021, 03:56:24 PM
 #2633

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.


I believe in luck but I don't believe luck comes on its own without effort. Likewise with the Sheriffs I'm sure they worked hard to get the win in the previous two games. We just have to see in the remaining matches whether they can still win and qualify from the group stage? If they qualify, it adds to my belief that they are not just a random team that relies on luck alone. But to be honest, I favor Madrid in this group to qualify for the knockout stages.

R


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October 19, 2021, 04:22:29 PM
 #2634

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.


I believe in luck but I don't believe luck comes on its own without effort. Likewise with the Sheriffs I'm sure they worked hard to get the win in the previous two games. We just have to see in the remaining matches whether they can still win and qualify from the group stage? If they qualify, it adds to my belief that they are not just a random team that relies on luck alone. But to be honest, I favor Madrid in this group to qualify for the knockout stages.

Lucky or not, but I think the sheriff has shown how a small team can destroy a team that excels in the champions league, I personally see the sheriff really win because of their hard work who never gives up despite facing big club like real madrid, apart from that, of course the luck factor might also be on their side, because they faced madrid when the current form of madrid was deteriorating, but if the sheriffs faced madrid last season the result course would have been very different in my opinion.

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Bohdan820
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October 19, 2021, 04:36:54 PM
Last edit: October 19, 2021, 05:04:59 PM by Bohdan820
 #2635

As for me, today the most interesting match is Atletico - Liverpool the intrigue is whether Liverpool can get revenge on Atlético for last year's departure or not as in previous matches in these i believe that Liverpool will win judging by the championship the guys are doing well.
Today Real must take revenge over the past year and not take care of itself in anticipation of the classico.

mistake...
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October 19, 2021, 04:38:39 PM
 #2636

I don't agree with you guys about the FC Sheriff Tiraspol winning against Real Madrid to be luck because everything done through some effort that produces a good result is not a piece of luck but determination. Besides, in the match stats show that they make 70% accurate passes, 4 shots, and 3 on target which means they use well every chance they had.
Meanwhile, this is a result of their preparation for the Champion League after defeat in their first Champion league appearance in the year 2010–11.
I believe in luck but I don't believe luck comes on its own without effort. Likewise with the Sheriffs I'm sure they worked hard to get the win in the previous two games. We just have to see in the remaining matches whether they can still win and qualify from the group stage? If they qualify, it adds to my belief that they are not just a random team that relies on luck alone. But to be honest, I favor Madrid in this group to qualify for the knockout stages.

Right, Sheriff played very well against Real Madrid in that match with the addition of a bit of luck. Because for example, Real took more than 15 shots and got more than 30 crosses but were hardly able to convert any. Their only goal came from Benzema from a spot kick. But Sheriff were able to convert their chances into goals.

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October 19, 2021, 04:52:11 PM
 #2637

As for me, today the most interesting match is Atletico - Liverpool the intrigue is whether Liverpool can get revenge on Atlético for last year's departure or not as in previous matches in these i believe that Liverpool will win judging by the championship the guys are doing well.
Today Real must take revenge over the past year and not take care of itself in anticipation of the classico.
You mistaken Champions League topic with Europa League one Wink
Here is the right one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163249.0

Totally overlooked that there's one game starting today, Celtic held 0-0 at home at HT right now. Didn't even realise it was playing til I got an alert of HT results. Way to start the game in the afternoon on a working day, huh Europa Wink

Anyway, looks pretty dire for the Scottish team. They need to win this for a chance to qualify, 1 point to the weakest team in the group isn't going to cut it.
I thought it is CL games turn today but apparently we have also another game tomorrow between Spartak and Leicester. For Celtic they won with 2 goals to 0.

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October 19, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
 #2638

Celtic defeated Frençvaros 2-0 in the European league matches that started today. Other important matches of the week are Spartak Moscow-Leicester, Real Betis-Leverkusen, Lazio-Marseille. I think Leicester, Betis and Lazio will win these matches.

R


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October 19, 2021, 06:56:42 PM
 #2639

I don't understand Tuesday and Wednesday matches in Europa League, it used to be Thursday only as far as I remember.
Today Celtic was favorite at home and they finally got three points, now they'll wait other matches. I'm sure they will beat Ferencváros in second game as well and make six points. If Leverkusen and Real Betis draw in their matches then Celtic have a fairly good chance. The other option would be Leverkusen to win their games and finish the group at top. Celtic can beat Betis at home in second match and they can pass them to get second place for EL play-off. They are still in the game.

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October 20, 2021, 12:09:34 PM
 #2640

Leicester City will play against Spartak Moscow today. In the first match of the Europa League, Leicester City drew with Napoli and in the 2nd match they lost to Leiga Warsaw. However, Leicester's performance against Manchester United in the previous match of the Premier League has fascinated everyone. Leicester had a great 4-2 win. If Leicester can play with their full strength in today's match, I believe they can still win today.

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