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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1255316 times)
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April 21, 2014, 04:48:27 AM
 #1281

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

The PSU has one or more small fans as well, though it does sound like that might eventually get quieter with a firmware fix.

Small fans have to spin faster to move air and are therefore almost always much noisier than bigger fans given the same cooling requirement. 1250 watts in 1.25 U is a lot. Cooling that with 40 mm fans will likely always be at least somewhat noisy.


Also correct.

We have fw control on the fans, so with proper ambient temperature, we can reduce the fan noise considerably.
Of course it also depends on the mining mode: "Quiet" / Normal / Turbo

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April 21, 2014, 04:59:26 AM
 #1282

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink
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April 21, 2014, 05:35:05 AM
Last edit: April 21, 2014, 05:49:46 AM by Collider
 #1283

I guess my opinion on this is unpopular, but i for my part think, a small unit size is excellent for any kind of datacenter deployment.

With the 1,25u / 2u for the sp30 respectively it is your choice which datacenter to use.

Got a standard datacenter in mind? Just use only 8 servers per rack.
If you have only a few sp10, most smaller datacenters can offer cheap colocation in shared cabinets by just putting them in racks that are not yet maxed out.

Mine is currently in a very small, low quality datacenter, designed for ~10kw racks however, i only pay for 1,25u + power, so it´s a fair deal for everyone.
Even though my intake temp. is 24-25°C i am still constantly over 1,4th, so nothing to fear there.

Enter deployment in bigger datacenters and you can really get good hosting quotes per kwh for bigger deployments.

I believe i read somewhere that spondoolies will be offering longer term hosting in different locations come summer, passing the bulk discounts on to us.

Keep in mind that while these are marketed to standard consumers, they where designed for datacenter deployment.


I mean before you go to exorbitant amounts of trouble building your own custom datacenter in your basement, run the numbers and datacenter deployment might come cheaper.
While i do understand the fuzzy feeling you get when looking at your units hashing away, you can still go visit them in most datacenters if you really feel the urge to.

Also if you do something wrong, the risk of accidentally burning your house down because you decided to run several 240V power lines yourself isn´t there.
Plus if you live in an environment with frequent brown/blackouts, no such trouble in DCs.
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April 21, 2014, 05:41:45 AM
 #1284

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink

The main noise is not from the psu, it is from the high cfm 40mm fans, and while the noise level is high, the main problem in a home environment is that the sound is very whiny (high pitch).
I can only speculate that the noise will be a lower pitch sound with the sp30s, as they use 80mm fans.

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.

I guess some custom enclosure would also be a solution but you should take care of high enough airflow, as the risk of heat-choking your units in a smaller space is obviously higher.
There are also some directly cooled, closed racks available for sale with 10kw+ cooling per rack already installed. Close the rack door and some noise is already gone.
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April 21, 2014, 05:47:34 AM
 #1285

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.


even better, install it in a relative's garage.  Cheesy what noise? can't hear a thing.

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April 21, 2014, 05:54:15 AM
 #1286

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.


even better, install it in a relative's garage.  Cheesy what noise? can't hear a thing.

Best way of getting back at your mother-in-law  Wink

.. but seriously, most of your noise concerns should be gone when putting it in an adjacent buidling or even a free standing garage.
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April 21, 2014, 05:57:12 AM
 #1287

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.


even better, install it in a relative's garage.  Cheesy what noise? can't hear a thing.

Best way of getting back at your mother-in-law.

also, best way to get the old father interested in mining  Wink
i'm working on him. first thing he says once i got it running (coupla cubes, couple singles, pile of blades and the sp10), was not regarding the noise... it was... 'wow much power' (i'm sure he's been dogeing lol)

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April 21, 2014, 06:14:49 AM
 #1288

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink

The main noise is not from the psu, it is from the high cfm 40mm fans, and while the noise level is high, the main problem in a home environment is that the sound is very whiny (high pitch).
I can only speculate that the noise will be a lower pitch sound with the sp30s, as they use 80mm fans.

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.

I guess some custom enclosure would also be a solution but you should take care of high enough airflow, as the risk of heat-choking your units in a smaller space is obviously higher.
There are also some directly cooled, closed racks available for sale with 10kw+ cooling per rack already installed. Close the rack door and some noise is already gone.

ughhh how about NO?

SP30 will use 2 x 1u PSUs...... did you see the render?

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April 21, 2014, 06:34:11 AM
 #1289

Again, the main source of noise in sp10s is the high cfm 40mm fans.
The PSU fan isn´t that annoying, furthermore this is only 1 fan, and spondoolies has confirmed that it will be slowed by firmware once programmed by them, as it has massive margins for +35°C DCs.

Ofcourse i wont advise anyone to put these into a very sound sensitive environment.

There is always a slower firmware setting available if you are really annoyed by the sound.
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April 21, 2014, 09:11:37 AM
 #1290

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink

The main noise is not from the psu, it is from the high cfm 40mm fans, and while the noise level is high, the main problem in a home environment is that the sound is very whiny (high pitch).
I can only speculate that the noise will be a lower pitch sound with the sp30s, as they use 80mm fans.

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.

I guess some custom enclosure would also be a solution but you should take care of high enough airflow, as the risk of heat-choking your units in a smaller space is obviously higher.
There are also some directly cooled, closed racks available for sale with 10kw+ cooling per rack already installed. Close the rack door and some noise is already gone.

ughhh how about NO?

SP30 will use 2 x 1u PSUs...... did you see the render?



The render may be misleading. SP30 will have 80mm fans

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April 21, 2014, 09:30:57 AM
 #1291

About hosting services, have anyone tried https://hashplex.com/?
They seem to offer really competitive prices (indeed 50% cheaper than SP) but that 1 year minimum makes no sense to me in a world like bitcoin where everything changes in just a month.
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April 21, 2014, 09:35:11 AM
Last edit: April 21, 2014, 10:00:55 AM by Collider
 #1292

About hosting services, have anyone tried https://hashplex.com/?
They seem to offer really competitive prices (indeed 50% cheaper than SP) but that 1 year minimum makes no sense to me in a world like bitcoin where everything changes in just a month.
Are they already set up?
I remember stumbling across them early this year and they were only taking preorders to reserve space, stating that they would be ready in Q2.

Edit: https://hashplex.com/hashplex-opens-its-first-hashcenter/
       http://www.coindesk.com/mining-roundup-multipools-doge-amazon-ec2-11ghs-usb-sticks/
(sorry for the thread-hijacking)
Apparently they are already running 60+Th.

My guess is that the long-term hosting solution by spondoolies will offer a good SLA for any services specifically for your units,
in a professionally built Datacenter (maybe even with some "green" power) that can handle the cooling and power requirements well.

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April 21, 2014, 10:02:25 AM
 #1293

So, point is that these do get hot and for people with 1 or 2 they may not be able to cool it adequately and not everyone wants to host their miners.

I plan to host 3 sp10 and 3 sp30. I will cool it with air from the house (~20°C atm) and when temp will get higher i will buy an AC for the house. I will put it in a very small room but with high air flow. In add off, i don't plan to stock those appliance horizontal but vertically with a big fan on bottom and big extractor on top.
I believe that it will be good for several reason :
- heat goes up
- horizontal fan make less noise
- easier for me to stack it (the room is very tiny)

Here my plan :

The grey part will be stick to the appliances with a hole to make place for power supplies (I plan do to twice shown on picture).
The fan on bottom is... a fan, nothing more Cheesy
The air extractor will be something like this : http://www.cultureindoor.com/1299-extracteur-winflex-vk-100-mm-250-m3-h.html
Notice it's from a growshop, they do great pricing.

My last concern is about the bottom of appliance getting hot. I guess i will put 1/2 cm between each appliance and let the fan/extractor do the rest.

Last but not least, i hate the noise. really, badly, whatever... :@
So, i will isolate the door (got some good experience there) and catch the noise with self-adhesive acoustic foam. Already found some very good foam with an α (alpha Sabine) over 0.80 for frequency over 2kHz.

Of course, I've already installed the smoke detector, just in case off :p

Tell me what you think and, SP-T, please tell me if putting the miners vertically is a problem...

Regards,

PS:i shall be delivered on monday, tuesday, so expect pictures soon Smiley


Hi. Here is a reply from Kobi, our VP operations:

There is no problem to install the SP vertically.
There is one issue he should pay attention too:
 The Air flow and the inlet air opening physical size of the "Extracteur Winflex VK 100 mm 250 m3/h" is sufficient to ~2 SP10 or a single SP30.
Installing more units in a closed room will cause the hot air to be captured inside and to increase it total temp.
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April 21, 2014, 10:08:52 AM
 #1294

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink

The main noise is not from the psu, it is from the high cfm 40mm fans, and while the noise level is high, the main problem in a home environment is that the sound is very whiny (high pitch).
I can only speculate that the noise will be a lower pitch sound with the sp30s, as they use 80mm fans.

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.

I guess some custom enclosure would also be a solution but you should take care of high enough airflow, as the risk of heat-choking your units in a smaller space is obviously higher.
There are also some directly cooled, closed racks available for sale with 10kw+ cooling per rack already installed. Close the rack door and some noise is already gone.

ughhh how about NO?

SP30 will use 2 x 1u PSUs...... did you see the render?

For setting the record straight, the PSU noise becomes dominant only in quite mode (~1.35). In regular mode (~1.45) our fans create the dominant noise. As Guy said, SP30 will have bigger fans. Also, if Emerson don't fix the noise issue, SP30 will most probably have different PSU.
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April 21, 2014, 10:10:33 AM
Last edit: April 21, 2014, 12:21:03 PM by wanna4fun
 #1295

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.


even better, install it in a relative's garage.  Cheesy what noise? can't hear a thing.

Best way of getting back at your mother-in-law  Wink

.. but seriously, most of your noise concerns should be gone when putting it in an adjacent buidling or even a free standing garage.

not if you live in an apartment at the 4th floor. So you know, the miniDC (i'm gonna call it like that now;D) will be close to my daughter's room.
Already have some experience with sound less engine. I don't think that this low 70db will be a problem.

Btw i'm not using low profile acoustic foam. I'm using professional foam. cost less than 130€ to cover the entire room including the door.


Run them flat, the passive convection won't mean much compared to the airflow from the miners. Also the acoustic foam chimney is a bit of a misnomer, it changes the frequency profile of the noise rather than reducing it (confirmed).

don't have space to run them flat.
and yeah, the foam modify slightly the sound because it breaks the wave, but you have to admit that if you're 3 meters away from the door you won't hear a fly fart.
Do you hear about the alpha sabine factor ? it's the value indicating whether the foam entirely absorb the sound (=1) or entirely reflect it (=0). varies up the frequency.






Hi. Here is a reply from Kobi, our VP operations:

There is no problem to install the SP vertically.
There is one issue he should pay attention too:
 The Air flow and the inlet air opening physical size of the "Extracteur Winflex VK 100 mm 250 m3/h" is sufficient to ~2 SP10 or a single SP30.
Installing more units in a closed room will cause the hot air to be captured inside and to increase it total temp.


Hi zvi, thanks to Kobi Smiley
Do you have specification of the fans 40mm and 80mm ? I want to do the math myself

EDIT : Thanks at Dogie for high quality pics, I've got it for the 40mm: http://www.ystech.com.tw/db/upload/product/p-201111817053-2.pdf

   model            RPM      m3/h   dB
2    FD124028EB-P        16000    44    51.5
3    FD124028EB-P        13000    36.3    49.5
4    FD124028EB-P        11000    32.2      47
5    FD124028EB-P        9500      28.3   41

so now just need the parameters used by the firmware.
now, even the fan are working at their lowest level I would need to extract at least 170m3/h per SP10. Give then fact that this unit has 80-90% efficiency it would mean that I have to extract at least 150m3/h per SP10 and lets say 300m3/h for SP30. I need to extract 450m3/H * 3 batch = 1350 m3/h !!!!!
The room is only 10m3, it mean that i will need renew the air of the room more than twice a minute to keep the temp inside same as outside the room.
This is ridiculous.... Roll Eyes

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April 21, 2014, 01:22:55 PM
 #1296

Quote
The room is only 10m3, it mean that i will need renew the air of the room more than twice a minute to keep the temp inside same as outside the room.
This is ridiculous.... Roll Eyes

Well you are talking about 11,4 KW of cooling capacity, roughly 41000 BTU if i am not mistaken.
Yes, this will take some serious engineering... and maybe a datacenter solution would be more fitting.

I can see this working in a double garage (or even a single one) but in a 10m² space?
I hope your power is cheap so it will be worth the effort.
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April 21, 2014, 02:35:05 PM
 #1297

The render may be misleading. SP30 will have 80mm fans
Is there anything else 'misleading' that we should know about?  The more things the manufacture 'misleads' me on, the more plans I have to discard and start over.  Would any of the other things you are misleading your customers on have the word 'August' in there? 


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April 21, 2014, 02:47:18 PM
 #1298

I mostly meant it as a reply to the guy trying to figure out how to make them quieter in a home environment.  Mod the case and use bigger fans.

Bigger fans have nothing to do with it. I believe it was confirmed that the psu is what makes them so noisy.

Yeah, right...What about standard 80mm fans with higher air-flow @ lower RPM...2U PSU with 80mm too...

Fixes are usually to correct something...which is not right to begin with...usually called "mistakes"... Wink

The main noise is not from the psu, it is from the high cfm 40mm fans, and while the noise level is high, the main problem in a home environment is that the sound is very whiny (high pitch).
I can only speculate that the noise will be a lower pitch sound with the sp30s, as they use 80mm fans.

Why don´t you just install ac in your garage and put the units there,
that should take care of most of the sound problems.

I guess some custom enclosure would also be a solution but you should take care of high enough airflow, as the risk of heat-choking your units in a smaller space is obviously higher.
There are also some directly cooled, closed racks available for sale with 10kw+ cooling per rack already installed. Close the rack door and some noise is already gone.

ughhh how about NO?

SP30 will use 2 x 1u PSUs...... did you see the render?

For setting the record straight, the PSU noise becomes dominant only in quite mode (~1.35). In regular mode (~1.45) our fans create the dominant noise. As Guy said, SP30 will have bigger fans. Also, if Emerson don't fix the noise issue, SP30 will most probably have different PSU.


For the SP30, we'll use two 1200 Watt PSUs. We're evaluating:

Emerson              P/N DS1200-3-002
http://www.artesyn.com/power/power-supplies/websheet/401/DS1200
 
 
Murata                 P/N D1U3CS-W-1200-12-HA4C
http://www.murata-ps.com/en/products/ac-dc-power-supplies/1u-front-end/d1u4-w-1200-12-ha1c-6.html

None of them has the noise issue in low power as the Emerson 1050 we're using in SP10

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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April 21, 2014, 02:54:57 PM
 #1299

The render may be misleading. SP30 will have 80mm fans
Is there anything else 'misleading' that we should know about?  The more things the manufacture 'misleads' me on, the more plans I have to discard and start over.  Would any of the other things you are misleading your customers on have the word 'August' in there?  


RawDog, we never hinted or said that the SP30 is a done product. We've said from the get go that it's under development.
What we're committed to is the spec: 5.4 THs +- 10%, 2500 Watt, 2U rack mounted form factor.
The first SP30s will be shipped to customers in July. This is another commitment.
It's actual look may be a bit different from the SolidWorks rendering in the web site.

The below is not targeted towards RawDog:
Please don't start another cycle of commitment vs terms of sales.

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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April 21, 2014, 03:15:05 PM
 #1300

Quote
The room is only 10m3, it mean that i will need renew the air of the room more than twice a minute to keep the temp inside same as outside the room.
This is ridiculous.... Roll Eyes

Well you are talking about 11,4 KW of cooling capacity, roughly 41000 BTU if i am not mistaken.
Yes, this will take some serious engineering... and maybe a datacenter solution would be more fitting.

I can see this working in a double garage (or even a single one) but in a 10m² space?
I hope your power is cheap so it will be worth the effort.

you got it wrong,it's 10m3 volume, even better Grin
power is at 0.14€/kwh max and will soon cost 0.10-0.12€/kwh

datacenter are way too expensive. when i look for a space most of them refused to add equipment like that or only with fees which cost more per month than all my installation...
btw, any hosting solution annoys me...


The render may be misleading. SP30 will have 80mm fans
Is there anything else 'misleading' that we should know about?  The more things the manufacture 'misleads' me on, the more plans I have to discard and start over.  Would any of the other things you are misleading your customers on have the word 'August' in there? 


RawDog, we never hinted or said that the SP30 is a done product. We've said from the get go that it's under development.
What we're committed to is the spec: 5.4 THs +- 10%, 2500 Watt, 2U rack mounted form factor.
The first SP30s will be shipped to customers in July. This is another commitment.
It's actual look may be a bit different from the SolidWorks rendering in the web site.

The below is not targeted towards RawDog:
Please don't start another cycle of commitment vs terms of sales.
add ToS in signature Smiley

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