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Author Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs  (Read 1255341 times)
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jimmothy
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May 06, 2014, 04:35:37 AM
 #1701

Lets put it this way:
Unless you are trying to cool a whole 250kw Tank with Novec and 2-phase immersion cooling, it doesn´t make any financial sense.

The only reason why immersion cooling is cheaper than air cooling ist because of scale. When you put many units into these tanks, less liquid is needed and at some point the liquid becomes cheaper than buying heatsinks and fans for your units.

Why would the cost not scale down? Whats preventing you from having the same gallon/kw ratio with a 10kw tub vs a 250kw tub?
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May 06, 2014, 04:54:35 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2014, 05:10:42 AM by Collider
 #1702

Lets put it this way:
Unless you are trying to cool a whole 250kw Tank with Novec and 2-phase immersion cooling, it doesn´t make any financial sense.

The only reason why immersion cooling is cheaper than air cooling ist because of scale. When you put many units into these tanks, less liquid is needed and at some point the liquid becomes cheaper than buying heatsinks and fans for your units.

Why would the cost not scale down? Whats preventing you from having the same gallon/kw ratio with a 10kw tub vs a 250kw tub?
-Bulk quantities of liquid are way cheaper.

-A small tank is more expensive per volume created than a bigger one

-You need to build a custome lid with air pressure control and access for the water cooled condensers

-You need to build a water cooled chiller and install it in a safe and secure way in your tank.

-The radiator for the chiller needs to be built into an existing structure, i.e. your building in a safe and secure manner and some kind of fan mechanism might be needed
 One time costs of this are far higher per W when only a small radiator is installed.

-A water pump for pumping your water to the outside will need to be installed. Big pumps are way less expensive / waterflow than small ones

-Labor on a small project is far more expensive per kw than on a bigger build.

-Bulk materials purchase is far cheaper per kw cooling in a big build


I could go on. Please admit that building a small immersion cooling rig is far more expensive per kw than a big one.

The whole point behind cheap immersion cooling is to from the start design boards for immersion cooling, which will be cheaper than regular units as you dont need to buy and install heatsinks and fans.
Additionally you can put a higher amount of chips on the boards, as you dont have to think about cooling layout etc.

The savings from board / heatsink / fan costs and the labour installing those is then put into ~200cc fluids per kW, this apparently costs around the same.

Further savings are then achieved by lower maintenance costs, as you can "build" your own custom datacenter by just buying a shipping container for around 700K from Allied Control.
All you then need to do is hook up around 1,4MW of power and you are ready to go. No costs wasted on racks in datacenters etc, only electricity costs and small internet fees.

When it is time to upgrade your gear, the real cost savings come through as liquid and tanks etc. are already installed and you can just switch out the boards.
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May 06, 2014, 05:18:50 AM
 #1703

Lets put it this way:
Unless you are trying to cool a whole 250kw Tank with Novec and 2-phase immersion cooling, it doesn´t make any financial sense.

The only reason why immersion cooling is cheaper than air cooling ist because of scale. When you put many units into these tanks, less liquid is needed and at some point the liquid becomes cheaper than buying heatsinks and fans for your units.

Why would the cost not scale down? Whats preventing you from having the same gallon/kw ratio with a 10kw tub vs a 250kw tub?
-Bulk quantities of liquid are way cheaper. (You get excessive discounts on this stuff if you not only buy 2 gallons, btw one gallon is around 400$ in bulk quantities, if i am not mistaken)

-A small tank is more expensive per volume created than a bigger one

-You need to build a custome lid with air pressure control and access for the water cooled condensers

-You need to build a water cooled chiller and install it in a safe and secure way in your tank.

-The radiator for the chiller needs to be built into an existing structure, i.e. your building in a safe and secure manner and some kind of fan mechanism might be needed
 One time costs of this are far higher per W when only a small radiator is installed.

-A water pump for pumping your water to the outside will need to be installed. Big pumps are way less expensive / waterflow than small ones

-Labor on a small project is far more expensive per kw than on a bigger build.

-Bulk materials purchase is far cheaper per kw cooling in a big build


I could go on. Please admit that building a small immersion cooling rig is far more expensive per kw than a big one.

I agree that large scale is cheaper per kw than small scale but I don't think the difference is so huge.

I think the only significant factor is the bulk discounts especially on the liquid but the fluid is $200/gallon in bulk not $400.

Pumps ($50), fans ($100), radiators($300), and plastic tubs ($50) are all relatively cheap. I would guess that a pressure control system would require ~$100 worth of parts and pluming maybe another $100. So overall less than $1000 before adding the novec costs.
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May 06, 2014, 07:09:32 AM
 #1704

I recommend this : http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-Single-Zone-Split-Conditioning-System/dp/B0060OU3DO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1399297076&sr=8-3&keywords=mitsubishi+split+air+conditioner

It can be used for home if you no longer mining.

Always get Mitsubishi system, the best split system bar none

Easy to install, and heatpump is outside for best efficiency


It is a nice a/c, but IMHO It is useless to waste energy cooling something that is so energy efficient.
Also, those a/c's are not designed for a 100% duty cycle, as are for home use.

You either decide to send it to a DC, or build a nice polyurethane kiosk and use at least 4x 40w industrial fans with extra filters used for electrical cabinets.
http://www.brenclosures.com.au/pdfs/texa_datasheets/TX-FAN28.pdf

It will do the job and keep also a low energy consumption.

Dude, you compare 2 completely different scenarios. The whole point of using split system is because ..... you dont have ventilation !!!! Gee...

If you can vent air to exchange with the outside then, A/C doesnt help much.

I believe the poster want to use closet. Last time i check my closet doesnt have windows or balcony.


I did not say that 4x SP30 with 12kw heat generated cannot work in a room OR in a closet without having to spend many thousands of dollars to keep it cool and NOT use direct ventilation from outside.

In my opinion, such a case must not work within a house, it should be done outside with direct massive ventilation. That was a reason I suggested to build a small kiosk and let it work OUTSIDE. Not inside a closet within a closed room.

Where do you disagree?

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May 06, 2014, 07:54:38 AM
 #1705

so does anyone have their sp10's a home?
how much heat do they put out?

I was thinking of storing 4 SP30s in rack in a closet and sticking a self contained 12,000 BTU air conditioning system in there.  Do you guys think that will be enough?


4x sp30 will create approximately 12 kw of heat.  

A single ac of 12,000 btu can absorb around 3.5kw of heat.

Noway then.

So what you're saying is that I need something like this??

http://www.amazon.com/TRIPP-LITE-Cooling-Conditioner-SRCOOL33K/dp/B0082PYTWK/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1399258315&sr=8-14&keywords=self+contained+air+conditioner


Yes , that would do the job for sure, but your bill would go high to the sky.
It consumes alone around 3kw.

I would suggest to build a nice small insulated kiosk and use fans with filters to circulate the air.
You can leave it at the balcony.

I can't imagine letting one SP10 running around me. If you put it on your balcony, the neighborhood will hate you.

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May 06, 2014, 10:23:31 AM
 #1706

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a DYI immersion cooling with 3M Novec. Too complex and too dangerous.
Arguably, it might make sense on large scale.

Find cheap hosting deal instead. There are a lot of options available online. Our miners software is suitable for remote management via HTTPS.

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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May 06, 2014, 11:02:26 AM
 #1707

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a DYI immersion cooling with 3M Novec. Too complex and too dangerous.
Arguably, it might make sense on large scale.

Find cheap hosting deal instead. There are a lot of options available online. Our miners software is suitable for remote management via HTTPS.

well i did not get any of these units...in a prev post even with the group order deal and 10 percent off due to prev knc purchases...at 440 usd coin
47% difficulty and 15c kwh elec and the 'hopeful' 6.5Th it essentially broke even...ie I'd get the same coin if I bought vs what I'd get out...not to
mention at 2500 watts likely would have to kick up the 100 amp service in the house to 200 amp..er again this would have been at a $4495 usd price
including shipping

my point is thou it is interesting ..that their hosting of equip is more or less exactly what I would pay (from what i can figure) in Minnesota...

electricity to run the beastie

so anyway if there is a way in the future to justify getting one of these beasts vs just getting coin I will consider it...likely it would have to be

another 'group order' which I've seen none mentioned....

anyway....hosting my equip looks like maybe a wash either way.....same $$$ assuming my 100amp could take 1 2500w 24/7..heh

(er cooling crap i forgot cooling)

still fence sitting but interested

Searing

Try out www.synchro.net An 'Old School' BBS (Bulletin Board System) works on Win /10/8/7 and Linux!
Three-minute install. The last upgrade was Jan 1st, 2019. I think you will be impressed by this project!
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May 06, 2014, 11:26:49 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2014, 01:01:03 PM by Spondoolies-Tech
 #1708

We're working hard to sell all August in advance.

Will post this once again: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/growth.png

With current hardware capabilities, the hash-rate growth is slowing down.

New Mimblewimble implementation: https://www.beam.mw
Spondoolies is back with the SPx36: https://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/spx36
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May 06, 2014, 02:11:27 PM
 #1709

http://bitcoin.sipa.be

That first 'moonshot' graph is pretty impressive ...
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May 06, 2014, 02:45:12 PM
 #1710

It is impressive but it's a linear scale which always looks impressive if you plot exponential growth Cheesy

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever.png

This carries much more information and is no less impressive. (Straight line with exponential axis = exponential growth)

Review of the Spondoolies-Tech SP10 „Dawson“ Bitcoin miner (1.4 TH/s)

[22:35] <Vinnie_win> Did anyone get paid yet? | [22:36] <Isokivi> pirate did!
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May 06, 2014, 03:05:52 PM
 #1711

Did I hear somebody say EXPONENTIAL GROWTH ?
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May 06, 2014, 07:47:32 PM
 #1712

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a DYI immersion cooling with 3M Novec. Too complex and too dangerous.
Arguably, it might make sense on large scale.

Find cheap hosting deal instead. There are a lot of options available online. Our miners software is suitable for remote management via HTTPS.

well i did not get any of these units...in a prev post even with the group order deal and 10 percent off due to prev knc purchases...at 440 usd coin
47% difficulty and 15c kwh elec and the 'hopeful' 6.5Th it essentially broke even...ie I'd get the same coin if I bought vs what I'd get out...not to
mention at 2500 watts likely would have to kick up the 100 amp service in the house to 200 amp..er again this would have been at a $4495 usd price
including shipping

my point is thou it is interesting ..that their hosting of equip is more or less exactly what I would pay (from what i can figure) in Minnesota...

electricity to run the beastie

so anyway if there is a way in the future to justify getting one of these beasts vs just getting coin I will consider it...likely it would have to be

another 'group order' which I've seen none mentioned....

anyway....hosting my equip looks like maybe a wash either way.....same $$$ assuming my 100amp could take 1 2500w 24/7..heh

(er cooling crap i forgot cooling)

still fence sitting but interested

Searing


lol another MN miner , i wish it was still winter...
I'm thinking of hosting an sp30 in my basement, seems cool right now , problem is I have to figure out where to put my GPU farm as well

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May 06, 2014, 07:59:50 PM
 #1713

I wouldn't recommend anyone to do a DYI immersion cooling with 3M Novec. Too complex and too dangerous.
Arguably, it might make sense on large scale.

Find cheap hosting deal instead. There are a lot of options available online. Our miners software is suitable for remote management via HTTPS.

well i did not get any of these units...in a prev post even with the group order deal and 10 percent off due to prev knc purchases...at 440 usd coin
47% difficulty and 15c kwh elec and the 'hopeful' 6.5Th it essentially broke even...ie I'd get the same coin if I bought vs what I'd get out...not to
mention at 2500 watts likely would have to kick up the 100 amp service in the house to 200 amp..er again this would have been at a $4495 usd price
including shipping

my point is thou it is interesting ..that their hosting of equip is more or less exactly what I would pay (from what i can figure) in Minnesota...

electricity to run the beastie

so anyway if there is a way in the future to justify getting one of these beasts vs just getting coin I will consider it...likely it would have to be

another 'group order' which I've seen none mentioned....

anyway....hosting my equip looks like maybe a wash either way.....same $$$ assuming my 100amp could take 1 2500w 24/7..heh

(er cooling crap i forgot cooling)

still fence sitting but interested

Searing


lol another MN miner , i wish it was still winter...
I'm thinking of hosting an sp30 in my basement, seems cool right now , problem is I have to figure out where to put my GPU farm as well

GPU farm is easy...put on E-bay... Grin
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May 06, 2014, 08:12:16 PM
 #1714

GPU farm is easy...put on E-bay... Grin

Not so easy... have you seen the prices for GPU's that people are willing to let them go at?  Way too low compared to a few months ago... bleh.

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May 06, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
 #1715

I recommend this : http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-Single-Zone-Split-Conditioning-System/dp/B0060OU3DO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1399297076&sr=8-3&keywords=mitsubishi+split+air+conditioner

It can be used for home if you no longer mining.

Always get Mitsubishi system, the best split system bar none

Easy to install, and heatpump is outside for best efficiency


It is a nice a/c, but IMHO It is useless to waste energy cooling something that is so energy efficient.
Also, those a/c's are not designed for a 100% duty cycle, as are for home use.

You either decide to send it to a DC, or build a nice polyurethane kiosk and use at least 4x 40w industrial fans with extra filters used for electrical cabinets.
http://www.brenclosures.com.au/pdfs/texa_datasheets/TX-FAN28.pdf

It will do the job and keep also a low energy consumption.

Dude, you compare 2 completely different scenarios. The whole point of using split system is because ..... you dont have ventilation !!!! Gee...

If you can vent air to exchange with the outside then, A/C doesnt help much.

I believe the poster want to use closet. Last time i check my closet doesnt have windows or balcony.


Maybe it is time for you to come out of the closet?

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May 06, 2014, 08:51:08 PM
 #1716

GPU farm is easy...put on E-bay... Grin

Not so easy... have you seen the prices for GPU's that people are willing to let them go at?  Way too low compared to a few months ago... bleh.

yeah no way i am tossing 18-20 gpu's I paid $400-500 for for $300 per.

plus I am still mining alt coins with the hope one or two will blow up in the near future.  I could have made a bundle on WC an AC if I had just sold after POW ended.

Back to the topic , what do you guys thing about hosting a single SP30 in a basement come august?

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May 06, 2014, 09:06:25 PM
 #1717

Hey Spondoolies,

I have funds for single SP10 but I want a pair. I noticed the May batch has an offer for a pair. Is there a similar deal for the June batch?

Additionally, if we have already pre-ordered a SP30, any chance of getting a further 10% discount?

I just need a little more motivation to withdraw more funds for a second June SP10s (on top of the SP30) and it's also a toss up between SP10 and Habanero.

Cheers,
QG

Bitcoin is at the tippity top of the mountain...but it's really only half way up.. Wink
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May 07, 2014, 12:15:49 AM
 #1718

Hey Spondoolies,

I have funds for single SP10 but I want a pair. I noticed the May batch has an offer for a pair. Is there a similar deal for the June batch?

Additionally, if we have already pre-ordered a SP30, any chance of getting a further 10% discount?

I just need a little more motivation to withdraw more funds for a second June SP10s (on top of the SP30) and it's also a toss up between SP10 and Habanero.

Cheers,
QG

How about joining my new GB: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=598502.0 1 SP10 for $3,200!

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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May 07, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
 #1719


I can't imagine letting one SP10 running around me. If you put it on your balcony, the neighborhood will hate you.

can anybody post decibel reading of SP-10 at 1.4-1.5 th/s within a feet or so? There are free android and apple apps that do it.
I am just trying to see how noisy (or not) it is in comparison with S1.

What ambient temperature would Sp-10 tolerate?
i have an extra room, but when i put 3 S1 there and closed the door, temp rose to ~35 degree celsius, so I had to open the door. obviously, if SP10 is like a rock band, it would be difficult.
I figure that heat-wise 1 SP10=3 S1 (with much higher productivity for Sp-10, of course)
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May 07, 2014, 01:05:40 AM
 #1720

What ambient temperature would Sp-10 tolerate?
Up to 35°C

Review of the Spondoolies-Tech SP10 „Dawson“ Bitcoin miner (1.4 TH/s)

[22:35] <Vinnie_win> Did anyone get paid yet? | [22:36] <Isokivi> pirate did!
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