[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[Guy Corem]

...any sort of performance increases or optimizations beyond the expected 5.4th on the SP30?  Is that just a low ball estimate of power and it'll end up being faster, or is that a best case scenario?...

Note that the spec is 5.4 TH/s +- 10%. Current status (3 weeks before tape out) strongly indicate that the final product will be over 5.5 TH/s

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[smooth]

Everything you said about shady and unreliable vendors in the bitcoin mining space is likely true, but that doesn't change the fact that repeatedly making promises without putting anything of substance behind them is cheap talk, and is very different from making a binding and substantial commitment to the customer.

But they did put something of substance behind them. They shipped some SP10 faster than advertised by a couple of days. How can they prove themselves regarding the SP30 if they will receive chips early in July?

"Something of substance" meaning a commitment that binds them to the outcome. Talk is cheap. If they say "it will ship on time and on spec," that's one thing. If they say, "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec," I'm more included to believe it will ship on time and on spec. I don't really want the refund, I just want to know they are willing to put their money where their mouth is on the promised ship date and specs.

[jamesg]

So much BS in one post.

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

[ZiG]

Spondoolies-Tech,...

Let's go back on track...which is :

You are MANUFACTURER...right...?

Have a great product - SP10 ...making about 30-50 units a day...my educated guess...?

Selling @ $4000 each ...dual bundle price = let say $17500 to $200000 per day ...$5-6 mill a month...correct...?

Quick question...:

WHY you don't try to RAMP the production of SP10 as SOON as you can ...let say to 300-400-500 a day ... 10000 to 15000 a month...?

And sell them @ $2999 = 2800 + 193 shipping...? ...YOU WILL SIMPLY KILL the competition in a month...Capisco...? ...and make your 30-45 millions a month...or two = 60-75 mill...why not 100 mill...?

Before answering with references...or blast me of the horizon... I am computer engineer...with 25+ years in production/manufacturing...250,000 units a year...1000 per day...executive level...know exactly what is it...

And don't tell me that logistics etc...Flextronics is your manufacturer...not you...the largest CONTRACT manufacturer in the world...they COULD ramp this in a push of a button...like a week...boards...mechanics...parts...etc...right...?

Except ...let me guess again...you don't have enough CHIPS...192 per machine...rounded to 200...50 a day =  10000 chips * 30 = 3 million chips...you are SHORT on your 1-st gen chips...Correct...?

I know that you have to pay for this...Should have a bank line of credit already...with 30 to 60 days NET terms...paying back quickly...? ...This MEANS the end of pre-orders...Right...?

Any comments/answers are greatly appreciated...

I also know that it is NOT EASY...but sometimes you need a GUTS...to do it...!
And you already have proven to have them too...

ZiG

P.S.  Please, don't take me wrong ...I am not even remotely trying to interfere with your company business...you are the one to run it...Simply questions that I don't have any reasonable answers and would like to know your point of view...Am I missing something...?  

[RoadStress]

Everything you said about shady and unreliable vendors in the bitcoin mining space is likely true, but that doesn't change the fact that repeatedly making promises without putting anything of substance behind them is cheap talk, and is very different from making a binding and substantial commitment to the customer.

But they did put something of substance behind them. They shipped some SP10 faster than advertised by a couple of days. How can they prove themselves regarding the SP30 if they will receive chips early in July?

"Something of substance" meaning a commitment that binds them to the outcome. Talk is cheap. If they say "it will ship on time and on spec," that's one thing. If they say, "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec," I'm more included to believe it will ship on time and on spec. I don't really want the refund, I just want to know they are willing to put their money where their mouth is on the promised ship date and specs.

The commitment is only words. Saying "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec" IS only words if we judge by  what happened with all US fail companies. HashFail promised full BTC refunds and now they told DyslexicZombei that he didn't even purchased units from them when he sued them.

So much BS in one post.

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

They did published gen1 full specs i think and some documents regarding their gen2 too. The whole forum knows that you are in love with Inaba. Go troll some place else.

[seriouscoin]

So much BS in one post.

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

You want transparency? go talk to Josh (for newbies, Josh is the assclown that runs BFL)

Hes very transparent with all the timeline you want.


Does that make you feel any better?

[smooth]

The commitment is only words. Saying "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec" IS only words if we judge by  what happened with all US fail companies. HashFail promised full BTC refunds and now they told DyslexicZombei that he didn't even purchased units from them when he sued them.

If they are going to reneg on the commitment (which I doubt), then it costs them even less. There is no legitimate reason not to make the commitment unless: 1) they aren't as sure the miners will ship on time and on spec as they claim to be, and 2) they believe they would stand behind the commitment if they made it. Draw your own conclusions.

[seriouscoin]

Spondoolies-Tech,...

Let's go back on track...which is :

You are MANUFACTURER...right...?

Have a great product - SP10 ...making about 30-50 units a day...my educated guess...?

Selling @ $4000 each ...dual bundle price = let say $17500 to $200000 per day ...$5-6 mill a month...correct...?

Quick question...:

WHY you don't try to RAMP the production of SP10 as SOON as you can ...let say to 300-400-500 a day ... 10000 to 15000 a month...?

And sell them @ $2999 = 2800 + 193 shipping...? ...YOU WILL SIMPLY KILL the competition in a month...Capisco...? ...and make your 30-45 millions a month...or two = 60-75 mill...why not 100 mill...?

Before answering with references...or blast me of the horizon... I am computer engineer...with 25+ years in production/manufacturing...250,000 units a year...1000 per day...executive level...know exactly what is it...

And don't tell me that logistics etc...Flextronics is your manufacturer...not you...the largest in the world...they COULD ramp this in a push of a button...like a week...boards...mechanics...parts...etc...right...?

Except ...let me guess again...you don't have enough CHIPS...192 per machine...rounded to 200...50 a day =  10000 chips * 30 = 3 million chips...you are SHORT on your 1-st gen chips...Correct...?

I know that you have to pay for this...Should have a bank line of credit already...with 30 to 60 days NET terms...paying back quickly...? ...This MEANS the end of pre-orders...Right...?

Any comments/answers are greatly appreciated...

I also know that it is NOT EASY...but sometimes you need a GUTS...to do it...!
And you already have proven to have them too...

ZiG

P.S.  Please, don't take me wrong ...I am not even remotely trying to interfere with your company business...you are the one to run it...Simply questions that I don't have any reasonable answers and would like to know your point of view...Am I missing something...? 

Maybe you should stick to Engineering and leave Marketing & Sales to expert like Gadi.

Just ramping up production and cutting margin like an idiot does not make a sustainable business. If the demand isnt there then why bother. Spondoolies didnt come out at the prime time like KNC, BFL, Avalon did. We're in bear market trend.

With relatively small team, I'm sure Spondoolies is looking for a future growth. The only way is to stay way above competitors and make a leap. SP30 is the answer.

[ZiG]

Spondoolies-Tech,...

Let's go back on track...which is :

You are MANUFACTURER...right...?

Have a great product - SP10 ...making about 30-50 units a day...my educated guess...?

Selling @ $4000 each ...dual bundle price = let say $17500 to $200000 per day ...$5-6 mill a month...correct...?

Quick question...:

WHY you don't try to RAMP the production of SP10 as SOON as you can ...let say to 300-400-500 a day ... 10000 to 15000 a month...?

And sell them @ $2999 = 2800 + 193 shipping...? ...YOU WILL SIMPLY KILL the competition in a month...Capisco...? ...and make your 30-45 millions a month...or two = 60-75 mill...why not 100 mill...?

Before answering with references...or blast me of the horizon... I am computer engineer...with 25+ years in production/manufacturing...250,000 units a year...1000 per day...executive level...know exactly what is it...

And don't tell me that logistics etc...Flextronics is your manufacturer...not you...the largest in the world...they COULD ramp this in a push of a button...like a week...boards...mechanics...parts...etc...right...?

Except ...let me guess again...you don't have enough CHIPS...192 per machine...rounded to 200...50 a day =  10000 chips * 30 = 3 million chips...you are SHORT on your 1-st gen chips...Correct...?

I know that you have to pay for this...Should have a bank line of credit already...with 30 to 60 days NET terms...paying back quickly...? ...This MEANS the end of pre-orders...Right...?

Any comments/answers are greatly appreciated...

I also know that it is NOT EASY...but sometimes you need a GUTS...to do it...!
And you already have proven to have them too...

ZiG

P.S.  Please, don't take me wrong ...I am not even remotely trying to interfere with your company business...you are the one to run it...Simply questions that I don't have any reasonable answers and would like to know your point of view...Am I missing something...?  

Maybe you should stick to Engineering and leave Marketing & Sales to expert like Gadi.

Just ramping up production and cutting margin like an idiot does not make a sustainable business. If the demand isnt there then why bother. Spondoolies didnt come out at the prime time like KNC, BFL, Avalon did. We're in bear market trend.

With relatively small team, I'm sure Spondoolies is looking for a future growth. The only way is to stay way above competitors and make a leap. SP30 is the answer.

@seriouscoin ...:

With all my due respect to Spondoolies-Tech, their team and Gadi and their hard work ...as well as this thread participants ...I am asking questions about production...and in any way NOT imposing or suggesting any Marketing/Sales or other business thoughts to this great company...This is their business...they know better...Read my P.S. above...if you didn't already...

BTW, what is your qualifications/expertise ...and how do you know what is/was my position ...to suggest me to stick with this...or that...and to express 'expert' opinions of production ...ramping...margins...etc...? Have you ever been involved in production...or serious scale business ...excluding that in the restroom...?...  
  

[RoadStress]

The commitment is only words. Saying "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec" IS only words if we judge by  what happened with all US fail companies. HashFail promised full BTC refunds and now they told DyslexicZombei that he didn't even purchased units from them when he sued them.

If they are going to reneg on the commitment (which I doubt), then it costs them even less. There is no legitimate reason not to make the commitment unless: 1) they aren't as sure the miners will ship on time and on spec as they claim to be, and 2) they believe they would stand behind the commitment if they made it. Draw your own conclusions.

Wait until the group buy deadline and then i will have an offer for you. I don't want to mix things up.

With relatively small team, I'm sure Spondoolies is looking for a future growth. The only way is to stay way above competitors and make a leap. SP30 is the answer.

I don't see you in the Group Buy yet

[smooth]

Wait until the group buy deadline and then i will have an offer for you. I don't want to mix things up.

You mean after the deadline? I'm still considering participating, though I am uncomfortable with the manufacturer's unwillingness to credibly stand behind their promises. We'll see though. Not sure what I will do.

[wanna4fun]

Hi everyone,

i'm still waiting for my sp10 to be delivered (still in israel atm ) and i was wondering if there is an option to schedule the power consumption ?
in france we have full hour (0.14€/kwh) and empty hour (0.10€/kwh). I would like to schedule full power during 8 hour and "quiet" during 16 hour.
Already implemented ? add it to the todolist ?

[RoadStress]

Wait until the group buy deadline and then i will have an offer for you. I don't want to mix things up.

You mean after the deadline? I'm still considering participating, though I am uncomfortable with the manufacturer's unwillingness to credibly stand behind their promises. We'll see though. Not sure what I will do.

Yes because people might see it as trying to push more units though. I just like to put my money where my word is. Sometimes that can be used as a bad thing too. See HashFail and their BTC refunds. I say just pull the trigger and you will be a happy panda in August.

Hi everyone,

i'm still waiting for my sp10 to be delivered (still in israel atm ) and i was wondering if there is an option to schedule the power consumption ?
in france we have full hour (0.14€/kwh) and empty hour (0.10€/kwh). I would like to schedule full power during 8 hour and "quiet" during 16 hour.
Already implemented ? add it to the todolist ?

Feel free to contact zvi@spondoolies-tech.com about this.

[raskul]

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

sorry but..
you are an arse. you spill down your fingers on your keyboard and spew out meaningless drivel. If you are not interested in the product without ridiculous terms and conditions which are beneficial only to yourself, then please; go troll away elsewhere.
Yes, utter BS and i'm fed up seeing your face on this thread.
Buy, or Don't Buy, but remember kiddo - don't lay out more than you can afford to lose.
 

[seriouscoin]

Spondoolies-Tech,...

Let's go back on track...which is :

You are MANUFACTURER...right...?

Have a great product - SP10 ...making about 30-50 units a day...my educated guess...?

Selling @ $4000 each ...dual bundle price = let say $17500 to $200000 per day ...$5-6 mill a month...correct...?

Quick question...:

WHY you don't try to RAMP the production of SP10 as SOON as you can ...let say to 300-400-500 a day ... 10000 to 15000 a month...?

And sell them @ $2999 = 2800 + 193 shipping...? ...YOU WILL SIMPLY KILL the competition in a month...Capisco...? ...and make your 30-45 millions a month...or two = 60-75 mill...why not 100 mill...?

Before answering with references...or blast me of the horizon... I am computer engineer...with 25+ years in production/manufacturing...250,000 units a year...1000 per day...executive level...know exactly what is it...

And don't tell me that logistics etc...Flextronics is your manufacturer...not you...the largest in the world...they COULD ramp this in a push of a button...like a week...boards...mechanics...parts...etc...right...?

Except ...let me guess again...you don't have enough CHIPS...192 per machine...rounded to 200...50 a day =  10000 chips * 30 = 3 million chips...you are SHORT on your 1-st gen chips...Correct...?

I know that you have to pay for this...Should have a bank line of credit already...with 30 to 60 days NET terms...paying back quickly...? ...This MEANS the end of pre-orders...Right...?

Any comments/answers are greatly appreciated...

I also know that it is NOT EASY...but sometimes you need a GUTS...to do it...!
And you already have proven to have them too...

ZiG

P.S.  Please, don't take me wrong ...I am not even remotely trying to interfere with your company business...you are the one to run it...Simply questions that I don't have any reasonable answers and would like to know your point of view...Am I missing something...?  

Maybe you should stick to Engineering and leave Marketing & Sales to expert like Gadi.

Just ramping up production and cutting margin like an idiot does not make a sustainable business. If the demand isnt there then why bother. Spondoolies didnt come out at the prime time like KNC, BFL, Avalon did. We're in bear market trend.

With relatively small team, I'm sure Spondoolies is looking for a future growth. The only way is to stay way above competitors and make a leap. SP30 is the answer.

@seriouscoin ...:

With all my due respect to Spondoolies-Tech, their team and Gadi and their hard work ...as well as this thread participants ...I am asking questions about production...and in any way NOT imposing or suggesting any Marketing/Sales or other business thoughts to this great company...This is their business...they know better...Read my P.S. above...if you didn't already...

BTW, what is your qualifications/expertise ...and how do you know what is/was my position ...to suggest me to stick with this...or that...and to express 'expert' opinions of production ...ramping...margins...etc...? Have you ever been involved in production...or serious scale business ...excluding that in the restroom...?...  
  

I simply have tons of experience dealing with engineers who think they're great at business management.

As i recall the quote of my engineering prof: " It takes 10 great engineers to have 1 successful business man"

[seriouscoin]

Hi everyone,

i'm still waiting for my sp10 to be delivered (still in israel atm ) and i was wondering if there is an option to schedule the power consumption ?
in france we have full hour (0.14€/kwh) and empty hour (0.10€/kwh). I would like to schedule full power during 8 hour and "quiet" during 16 hour.
Already implemented ? add it to the todolist ?

Thats a great suggestion. I think Spondoolies can add this to their next FW.

For now, if you're familiar with Linux, you can make a cron job. Its not too hard as all the tools are available in the current FW.

[seriouscoin]

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

sorry but..
you are an arse. you spill down your fingers on your keyboard and spew out meaningless drivel. If you are not interested in the product without ridiculous terms and conditions which are beneficial only to yourself, then please; go troll away elsewhere.
Yes, utter BS and i'm fed up seeing your face on this thread.
Buy, or Don't Buy, but remember kiddo - don't lay out more than you can afford to lose.
  

I find it funny that he never posted any of this crap in ALL BFL threads.... Right from FPGA all the way to Monarch,..... always over claimed specs.... the same old delay tactics... never EVER ontime and the timelines/transparencies are completely insults to the community.

Where were you James? huh? what made you suddenly looking out for this community?   oh .... right you were busy getting special treatment from Josh .

[raskul]

If I am espousing BS as you claim, then please be transparent and provide timelines, gantt charts and contingency plans to prove you are not planning August as the "we've done this before and everything will go right as rain, trust me path".

You claim to be transparent, please start being more transparent.

sorry but..
you are an arse. you spill down your fingers on your keyboard and spew out meaningless drivel. If you are not interested in the product without ridiculous terms and conditions which are beneficial only to yourself, then please; go troll away elsewhere.
Yes, utter BS and i'm fed up seeing your face on this thread.
Buy, or Don't Buy, but remember kiddo - don't lay out more than you can afford to lose.
  

I find it funny that he never posted any of this crap in ALL BFL threads.... Right from FPGA all the way to Monarch,..... always over claimed specs.... the same old delay tactics... never EVER ontime and the timelines/transparencies are completely insults to the community.

Where were you James? huh? what made you suddenly looking out for this community?   oh .... right you were busy getting special treatment from Josh .

he's just used to getting his own way and when he found out he wasn't going to get his own way with preferential treatment from Spondoolies-Tech, he began to cry like a baby. i think that about sums it up; and, i'll reiterate - more money than sense.

[Bicknellski]

It is not BS that the buyer is assuming all risks. <snip>

The customers (buyer) is the one that must assume all the risk. If you are going into a purchase of a machine that mines bitcoin thinking it should be relatively safe or risk free then all the years of bad deals bad players and ups and downs of BTC is never going to dissuade people from buying what amounts to to a HUGE risk. You can't reasonably trust anything or anyone, all deference to Spondoolies who I personally think are very reputable players so far, in bitcoin and even if they provide stellar 100% service you are dealing with an larger number of failure points from chip, to board to supply chain etc. You do your research. Arguing with a manufacturer about how they sell or price is valid. I would say that if you are not happy with the explanation they provide WALK AWAY AND DON'T BUY. Simple. I don't see how it is productive to hound them into changing policy if they are making a determination they do things a certain way. You won't be getting them to change. Point out their limits, ask them why they do it that way then walk away and don't look back. That is something I wish 1000s had done in the BFL, KnC, Black Arrow, Bitmine or HF or Cointerra or Avalon Batch 3 / Group chip buys.

Given what has happened so far we can see the Spondoolies is doing it's best to resolve any confusion and help customers with questions. Very responsive at this stage there are few others delivering on time and to spec like Spondoolies but again if you don't like the price or the terms walk away and don't buy after you point it out to everyone. That is fair. My take on this is they are reasonable people. They are doing what they can to produce miners and chips and getting them to the public in an open way. Which given the recent move by many fabricators to sell to the deepest pockets Spondoolies is different. At some point in the near future individual home miners are doomed to collectivise anyhow so pooling resources will mean larger and larger orders and CONTRACTS. NEVER TRUST ANYONE IN BITCOINLAND... DO YOUR RESEARCH. YOU ASSUME ALL THE RISK EVERY TIME AND NO ONE IS TO BLAME BUT YOU WHEN YOU LOSE IT ALL. NEVER ONLY RISK WHAT YOU CAN'T CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. That is the bottomline to all the posts about the terms of sale in any miner fabricator thread.

There is a reason for this stickied post from a long time Moderator and Hash Fast victim Gmaxwell READ IT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=504530.0

And a reason for rating companies here from Dogie READ IT: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691

Can we let the people who are interested in asking questions about the terms and price and other aspects because they want to buy talk? I get you want to push the agenda that buying any miner is foolish. You might have a point again that is why the sticky is there and a reason why Dogie took the time to rate the companies selling miners. Let the thread mature so that people with valid questions about the product or orders can do just that. This is why all fabricators should start self-moderated threads. Asked and answered. If you got more concerns EMAIL them. They will be glad to explain it in detail without cluttering the thread with 100s of posts that will be repeated 100's of times over the next 12 to 18 months.

[s1gs3gv]

The commitment is only words. Saying "you can get a refund if it doesn't ship on time and on spec" IS only words if we judge by  what happened with all US fail companies. HashFail promised full BTC refunds and now they told DyslexicZombei that he didn't even purchased units from them when he sued them.

If they are going to reneg on the commitment (which I doubt), then it costs them even less. There is no legitimate reason not to make the commitment unless: 1) they aren't as sure the miners will ship on time and on spec as they claim to be, and 2) they believe they would stand behind the commitment if they made it. Draw your own conclusions.

It seems pretty obvious to me that they know they could not stand behind the commitment if they made it and therefore don't want to make it. So its a glass half full or half empty situation. Kudos for not making a commitment they know they could not keep, no kudos for not admitting that there is more delivery uncertainty than there is.