Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[DaRude]

There seems to be a wave of celebrations in Crimea with lots of fireworks in the power infrastructure. But Ruzzis need to be more careful with smoke - they seem to have persistent problems with it, they have left half of the peninsula without power for quite a while!

The weather in Moscow is peculiar, some strange type of icy rain has been spotted all around. One could even think that is not ice, but Ukrainian drones that are retaliating. Would that be possible? Would Ukraine now be able to retaliate blow for blow even in Moscow?

According to Ruzzia, all drones have been intercepted, that is such good news that you could even believe it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-shoots-down-20-ukrainian-drones-moscow-attacked-2023-11-26/

Russia says shoots down 24 Ukrainian drones
Russia says Ukraine fired missiles over Sea of Azov
Ukraine reported biggest Russian drone attack on Kyiv
Russian controlled region says energy system struck

There seems to be also a big smoking accident in Chelyabinskyi -  in a tank repair / upgrade factory. Would you think that was Ukraine? It is more than 1000 kilometres away from Ukraine... wow someone might say that is just an accident.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/blast-reported-at-russian-tank-engine-facility-chelyabinsk-tractor-plant-uraltrak/

Ukraine said it shot down 74/75 drones, largest attack and then the next day...  

More than 2,000 settlements in central and southern Ukraine faced power cuts on Monday
...
As of 8 p.m. local time (1800 GMT), 883 settlements remained without power and about
...
Central Kyiv and southern Odesa and Mykolaiv regions were the hardest hit by the power cuts, with 40,000 homes initially affected in Kyiv region, authorities said. By 6:30 p.m, more than 15,000 homes in the region were still without electricity.

So what does your theory say about loss of power if we follow your thought?

If you follow my thought? Well, I am going to make an effort and imagine that you can even start to understand my thought, just as a theoretical exercise of course.

Last winter Ruzzia send a wave a bad=ass missiles that targeted power infrastructure in Ukraine. They cause problems, although obviously Ukraine recovered well, and Ruzzis were very happy about it and nearly untouched.

This year, Ruzzia has sent drones (much cheaper), with not even half of the destructive potential, much easier to intercept with cheap and abundant means. In exchange, the number of smoking incidents in Ruzzian war related installations is every day.

I am not sure if they are as happy as last year... when a bully is  kicked in the balls, tends to reconsider the situation. So.... yeah, my thought is that the Ruzzian army has to understand that smoking kills.

As for the news... 15000 homes without power due to a winter storm, well... I guess the god of rain is into Ukraniophobia like you guys?

Speaking of which... have you seen the fireworks in donesk? https://t.me/ssternenko/22906

You are right, this has absolutely nothing to do with what i said, way beyond my abilities to even start to understand... Or just more parroting of unrelated propaganda about buzzing RF enough so they reconsider the situation and just decide to leave Ukraine. Just another cheap attempt at moral booster

[Branko]

About "meat grinder attacks" and which side employ such tactic:

https://twitter.com/Gulag2030/status/1729375445383049720

Theres literally hundreds of those videos from both sides

Thank you captain obvious for telling obvious thing. There is lot of videos of drones hitting tanks, cars or troops straight line into dugouts, but I haven't see video of such level of precision. Offcourse, probably you would be more impressed if such video would be from Russian side.

https://t.me/vicktop55/18788

https://t.me/vicktop55/18775


[moderator's note: multiple posts have been merged]

[paxmao]

About "meat grinder attacks" and which side employ such tactic:

https://twitter.com/Gulag2030/status/1729375445383049720

Theres literally hundreds of those videos from both sides

Thank you captain obvious for telling obvious thing. There is lot of videos of drones hitting tanks, cars or troops straight line into dugouts, but I haven't see video of such level of precision. Offcourse, probably you would be more impressed if such video would be from Russian side.

https://t.me/vicktop55/18788

https://t.me/vicktop55/18775


[moderator's note: multiple posts have been merged]

I have not yet seen a video from the Ruzzies depicting something like the sea of rusted steel near Avdiivka. Not even the disasters at Vulheldar last year.

RE meatwaves attacks, I have recently seen a document on how Wagner threw the convicts in front. They had the worst equipment, but also were without radio. There was no way they could communicate that they were being hit by friendly fire or retreating. They would not know where the second line was. Thus, any retreat would mean that they would be fired upon by their own (I guess they did not really have "their own").

On this attack the Ukrainians would fire upon them and reveal the positions. Then mortar and artillery fire would be used in the general direction of this positions. Logically, the first line of Ruzzis was very close, so they were as likely to die as the Ukrainians, perhaps more since they were not digged in.

That's Bhakmut, but now the regular army is trying the same technique, but the problem seems to be that at least Wagner had good instructors and good morale in the contractors. The regulars don't, so they just loose the front troops and achieve nothing.

Look, this technique is not that uncommon, the armies use screeners and in the musket age, they had the skirmishers to "protect the main body of the troops" by putting themselves in the middle.

[Branko]

I have not yet seen a video from the Ruzzies depicting something like the sea of rusted steel near Avdiivka. Not even the disasters at Vulheldar last year.

RE meatwaves attacks, I have recently seen a document on how Wagner threw the convicts in front. They had the worst equipment, but also were without radio. There was no way they could communicate that they were being hit by friendly fire or retreating. They would not know where the second line was. Thus, any retreat would mean that they would be fired upon by their own (I guess they did not really have "their own").

On this attack the Ukrainians would fire upon them and reveal the positions. Then mortar and artillery fire would be used in the general direction of this positions. Logically, the first line of Ruzzis was very close, so they were as likely to die as the Ukrainians, perhaps more since they were not digged in.

That's Bhakmut, but now the regular army is trying the same technique, but the problem seems to be that at least Wagner had good instructors and good morale in the contractors. The regulars don't, so they just loose the front troops and achieve nothing.

Look, this technique is not that uncommon, the armies use screeners and in the musket age, they had the skirmishers to "protect the main body of the troops" by putting themselves in the middle.

You got it all wrong about who won Bakhmut battle  

And recent reveal about 1.1m dead Ukrainian soldiers also tells who had
upper hand all this time

https://9gag.com/gag/amAZB2j

[paxmao]

I have not yet seen a video from the Ruzzies depicting something like the sea of rusted steel near Avdiivka. Not even the disasters at Vulheldar last year.

RE meatwaves attacks, I have recently seen a document on how Wagner threw the convicts in front. They had the worst equipment, but also were without radio. There was no way they could communicate that they were being hit by friendly fire or retreating. They would not know where the second line was. Thus, any retreat would mean that they would be fired upon by their own (I guess they did not really have "their own").

On this attack the Ukrainians would fire upon them and reveal the positions. Then mortar and artillery fire would be used in the general direction of this positions. Logically, the first line of Ruzzis was very close, so they were as likely to die as the Ukrainians, perhaps more since they were not digged in.

That's Bhakmut, but now the regular army is trying the same technique, but the problem seems to be that at least Wagner had good instructors and good morale in the contractors. The regulars don't, so they just loose the front troops and achieve nothing.

Look, this technique is not that uncommon, the armies use screeners and in the musket age, they had the skirmishers to "protect the main body of the troops" by putting themselves in the middle.

You got it all wrong about who won Bakhmut battle  

And recent reveal about 1.1m dead Ukrainian soldiers also tells who had
upper hand all this time

<link remove>

Thanks for yet another link at propaganda. The figure you are providing is several multiples out of the even most optimistic Ruzzian hopes.

In Bakhmut, Wagner took the ruins of an empty city previously known as Bakhmut at a cost in lives that may actually exceed the original population of the city - we will not know, but in the tens of thousands it is for sure. Apart from massive shelling, the advances were based on sending forward the most expendable troops in any number needed. I am sure you consider that a Victory and you are right in taking it as such - that is as much of a victory as is going to get for Ruzzia.

The regulars are trying that now, but they just do not have the sauce.

BTW, you think this guy won?



Have you seen the fireworks in the Saky airfield in Crimea? It must be the cold weather that makes the Ruzzis make bonfires? We will have to wait for the next satellite pass to know.

[be.open]

In Bakhmut, Wagner took the ruins of an empty city previously known as Bakhmut at a cost in lives that may actually exceed the original population of the city - we will not know, but in the tens of thousands it is for sure. Apart from massive shelling, the advances were based on sending forward the most expendable troops in any number needed. I am sure you consider that a Victory and you are right in taking it as such - that is as much of a victory as is going to get for Ruzzia.

In Rabotino, the Ukrainian Armed Forces took the ruins of an empty village, formerly known as Rabotino, at a cost of lives that may actually exceed the original population of this village - we will not know, but in the tens of thousands this is certain. Apart from massive shelling, the advance was based on sending forward the most expendable troops in any numbers needed. I am sure that you consider this a Victory, and you are right to perceive it as such - that is as much of a victory as is going to get for Ukraine.

[paxmao]

In Bakhmut, Wagner took the ruins of an empty city previously known as Bakhmut at a cost in lives that may actually exceed the original population of the city - we will not know, but in the tens of thousands it is for sure. Apart from massive shelling, the advances were based on sending forward the most expendable troops in any number needed. I am sure you consider that a Victory and you are right in taking it as such - that is as much of a victory as is going to get for Ruzzia.

In Rabotino, the Ukrainian Armed Forces took the ruins of an empty village, formerly known as Rabotino, at a cost of lives that may actually exceed the original population of this village - we will not know, but in the tens of thousands this is certain. Apart from massive shelling, the advance was based on sending forward the most expendable troops in any numbers needed. I am sure that you consider this a Victory, and you are right to perceive it as such - that is as much of a victory as is going to get for Ukraine.

There was a failed mechanised attack in Robotyne, not a meatwave, then a successful. Ukraine cannot afford a meatwaves, politically nor in manpower. The objective was not the village, but to generate a breakthrough. While you think it is funny, it is simply not a comparable case.

Anyway, I think that Ukraine is far from having played all cards, while Ruzzia does not seem to generate new strategic nor tactical alternatives to shelling and sending the infantry -  after the shelling or during the shelling, whatever they feel like.

[LTU_btc]

Interesting news about explosions in Severomuysky tunnel deep in Siberia, seems it was another SBU operation.
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-railway-tunnel-china-explosion-sabotage-1848265
It's main railway connection with China for Russia. Now it's only question how serious damage was made

Much worse, Putin again used a secret climate weapon and Ukraine was covered with a storm and heavy snowfalls. Even the flag in Kyiv was torn. 

If that storm was made by Putin, then it wasn't very successful for them because it hit Russia hard too. Especially Sochi, Crimea - destroyed houses, railway washed away.

https://t.me/vicktop55/18788

https://t.me/vicktop55/18775

I'm not really sure what's your point with these videos. It's something that we can see daily from both sides.

[BADecker]

Once in a while Ukrainian commanders and government officials stop propagandizing. Once in a while they tell the truth about what is really going on.


Ukrainian commander laments INACCURACY of U.S.-provided M109 Paladin howitzer


https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-11-30-ukrainian-commander-laments-inaccuracy-m109-paladin-howitzer.html
A commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) has lamented the inaccuracy of the M109A6 Paladin howitzer, which he claims is significantly impacting Ukraine's offensive.

Speaking to journalists from the Spanish newspaper El Pais, a Ukrainian commander codenamed "Ivan" disclosed that his unit is caught between a rock and a hard place. According to Ukrainian sources, AFU forces near Avdiivka in the Donetsk People's Republic are grappling with an alarming deficit of ammunition. It has reached the extent that even the weaponry that uses these munitions is in a declining state, suffering from significantly impaired accuracy.

Ivan attested to this predicament, which contrasted with what the mainstream media has been parroting. The commander of the AFU's Paladin Howitzer 47th Brigade remarked that during the defenses of Bakhmut and Orekhovo, Ukrainian forces discharged between 100 and 150 shells each day. But in Avdiivka, they can only manage to fire 15.

"In the summer, my M109A6 Paladin had an accuracy error of seven meters," Ivan said. "Now, near Avdiivka, it is 70 meters."

He also told El Pais journalists that the casualty count in Avdiivka is disproportionately high. Ivan lost his entire platoon, with all 17 of his comrades either being killed or captured by Russian forces.

According to Ivan, the Russians are tactically digging deeper and wider trenches. They have also gained an upper hand, thanks to the up to 300 drones in their arsenal. "The Eagles [Orlan-10 drones] oversee the situation, while the Lancets launch assaults," he added. This air superiority Moscow has, alongside its prowess in artillery, is severely straining the defense capabilities of AFU troops in Avdiivka.
...

[paxmao]

What happens when you blow up a train carrying tons of jet fuel inside a 19 km long tunnel in Siberia:

a) The tunnel gets badly damaged for a long time.
b) The security services of the Ruzzian Federation look stupid.
c) The main route between China and Ruzzia is halted.
d) Millions in fuel burn.
e) All of the above.

Hint: its (e).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defflT_cN7M

Once in a while Ukrainian commanders and government officials stop propagandizing. Once in a while they tell the truth about what is really going on.


<link to fake information removed>


...

Speaking to journalists from the Spanish newspaper El Pais, a Ukrainian commander codenamed "Ivan" disclosed that his unit is caught between a rock and a hard place....

May I see the link to El Pais or is it fake.

BTW the error on artillery is usually due to either overuse of the barrel or shooting at maximum range.

[BADecker]

What happens when you blow up a train carrying tons of jet fuel inside a 19 km long tunnel in Siberia:

a) The tunnel gets badly damaged for a long time.
b) The security services of the Ruzzian Federation look stupid.
c) The main route between China and Ruzzia is halted.
d) Millions in fuel burn.
e) All of the above.

Hint: its (e).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defflT_cN7M

Once in a while Ukrainian commanders and government officials stop propagandizing. Once in a while they tell the truth about what is really going on.


<link to fake information removed>


...

Speaking to journalists from the Spanish newspaper El Pais, a Ukrainian commander codenamed "Ivan" disclosed that his unit is caught between a rock and a hard place....

May I see the link to El Pais or is it fake.

BTW the error on artillery is usually due to either overuse of the barrel or shooting at maximum range.

If you can't find a link to El Pias, you probably can't see it.

Ukraine artillery over use is what is happening, because the Ukraine military is losing the war, and they are frantic. You need to read between the lines.

However, Ukraine might be getting some help if they can hold out as long as it might take for the article, below, to happen. If it happens, the US military will need to recoup its $billions in losses. So, they will probably give Ukraine to their military people.

In what way will they give Ukraine to them? They will order their military people in there to fight against Russia, formally. Then, if the US military wins, the US will formerly take over Ukraine. If they don't, their military people will. And Ukraine won't be able to do anything about it because Ukraine's military is totally depleted as it is. No Ukraine military left to fight either the US or Russia.

Just a thought.


U.S. servicemen who refused COVID-19 vaccines sue federal government, demand billions of dollars for lost pay


https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-12-01-us-troops-refused-covid19-vaccines-sue-government.html
More than 8,000 active-duty U.S. service members were discharged from the military for refusing to be administered the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine, which was made compulsory by President Joe Biden's government from August 2021 through January 2023. The mandate was revoked by law as the National Defense Authorization Act – making it the first time in U.S. military history that a vaccine requirement was reversed.

Now, some of these men are filing lawsuits against the federal government, demanding billions of dollars worth of lost pay and benefits when they were discharged from the service. Atty. Dale Saran, a retired Marine and one of the lawyers who reportedly brought down the anthrax vaccine with fellow attorneys Andy Meyer and Brandon Johnson, is representing the former troops in three separate lawsuits they plan to turn into a class action lawsuit, independent news site Breitbart reported.

"The amount of money is in the billions," Saran told the outlet. "That's just flat-out. That's what it is in backpay. It's billions of dollars."


According to the legal counsel that represents all service members who were either kicked out or illegally ordered to stop drilling, resulting in loss of pay or benefits, the lawsuits were filed in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, which Saran said is a specialized court where illegal discharges are heard. "The Court of Claims has been around since the Reconstruction Era. It's a very old court and kind of a weird one. But in any event, you can go there if you've got a claim and say, 'Hey, I was illegally discharged, or the military did something to impede my pay,' or whatever. The Court of Claims is where you go," he explained.

...

Army is desperate to win back unvaccinated, "involuntarily separated" troop members
...

[paxmao]

What happens when you blow up a train carrying tons of jet fuel inside a 19 km long tunnel in Siberia:

a) The tunnel gets badly damaged for a long time.
b) The security services of the Ruzzian Federation look stupid.
c) The main route between China and Ruzzia is halted.
d) Millions in fuel burn.
e) All of the above.

Hint: its (e).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defflT_cN7M

Once in a while Ukrainian commanders and government officials stop propagandizing. Once in a while they tell the truth about what is really going on.


<link to fake information removed>


...

Speaking to journalists from the Spanish newspaper El Pais, a Ukrainian commander codenamed "Ivan" disclosed that his unit is caught between a rock and a hard place....

May I see the link to El Pais or is it fake.

BTW the error on artillery is usually due to either overuse of the barrel or shooting at maximum range.

If you can't find a link to El Pias, you probably can't see it.

Ukraine artillery over use is what is happening, because the Ukraine military is losing the war, and they are frantic. You need to read between the lines.

However, Ukraine might be getting some help if they can hold out as long as it might take for the article, below, to happen. If it happens, the US military will need to recoup its $billions in losses. So, they will probably give Ukraine to their military people.

In what way will they give Ukraine to them? They will order their military people in there to fight against Russia, formally. Then, if the US military wins, the US will formerly take over Ukraine. If they don't, their military people will. And Ukraine won't be able to do anything about it because Ukraine's military is totally depleted as it is. No Ukraine military left to fight either the US or Russia.

Just a thought.

You post and source mention a publication by a serious diary ("El Pais", not "El Pias"). May I see the link or is it fake information, as usual?

All your assumptions about the US taking over, Ukraine following orders and the degree of depletion are simply fantasies of an ignorant. The war in Ukraine is the only thing that helps the US have some allies in the world. The rest of the world would rather have the US erased.

[BADecker]

~

If you can't find a link to El Pias, you probably can't see it.

Ukraine artillery over use is what is happening, because the Ukraine military is losing the war, and they are frantic. You need to read between the lines.

However, Ukraine might be getting some help if they can hold out as long as it might take for the article, below, to happen. If it happens, the US military will need to recoup its $billions in losses. So, they will probably give Ukraine to their military people.

In what way will they give Ukraine to them? They will order their military people in there to fight against Russia, formally. Then, if the US military wins, the US will formerly take over Ukraine. If they don't, their military people will. And Ukraine won't be able to do anything about it because Ukraine's military is totally depleted as it is. No Ukraine military left to fight either the US or Russia.

Just a thought.

You post and source mention a publication by a serious diary ("El Pais", not "El Pias"). May I see the link or is it fake information, as usual?

All your assumptions about the US taking over, Ukraine following orders and the degree of depletion are simply fantasies of an ignorant. The war in Ukraine is the only thing that helps the US have some allies in the world. The rest of the world would rather have the US erased.

Since you don't seem to be able to search for and find the link, odds are you wouldn't understand it if you found it.

Since I don't have any assumptions about the US taking over Ukraine, your talk doesn't hold any value. How can you tell? I show links to other people saying what THEY say, and simply repeat a little of it along with logical conclusions.

However, if you search for it, you can find that 3 major US companies have taken over 60% of Ukraine farm land. So, the US taking over Ukraine is a done-deal already, except for the formal announcing of it. This means that the small invasion that Russia has done, is way less than the big US invasion.

Wake up.

[DaRude]

...

Michael von der Schulenburg is a former UN Assistant Secretary-General, who worked for over 34 years for the United Nations

Hajo Funke is Professor Emeritus for political sciences of the Otto-Suhr-Institute/ Freie University Berlin

General (ret.) Harald Kujat was the highest ranging German officer of the Bundeswehr and at NATO
...
Just one month after the start of the Russian military intervention in Ukraine, Ukrainian and Russian negotiators had come very close to an agreement for a ceasefire and to an outline for a comprehensive peace solution to the conflict.
...
Contrary to Western interpretations, Ukraine and Russia agreed at the time that the planned NATO expansion was the reason for the war. They therefore focused their peace negotiations on Ukraine’s neutrality and its renunciation of NATO membership. In return, Ukraine would have retained its territorial integrity except for Crimea.

There is little doubt that these peace negotiations failed due to resistance from NATO and in particular from the USA and the UK. The reasons is that such a peace agreement would have been tantamount to a defeat for NATO, an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and thus an end to the dream of a unipolar world dominated by the USA.
...
The failure of the peace negotiations in March 2022 led to dangerous intensification of the war that has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people...Not only Russia, but also NATO and the West bear a heavy share of the blame for this disaster.

Ukraine’s negotiating position today is far worse than it was in March 2022. Ukraine will now lose large parts of its territory.

The blocking of the peace negotiations at that time has harmed everyone: Russia and Europe – but above all the people of Ukraine, who are paying with their blood the price for the ambitions of the major powers and will probably get nothing in return.
...
However, instead of ending the war through negotiations as Ukrainian President Zelensky and his government appeared to have wanted, he ultimately bowed to pressures from some Western powers to abandon a negotiated solution. Western powers wanted this war to continue in the hope to break Russia.

...In the conversation in the Kremlin, Putin, Bennett [ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER] said, had made some substantial concessions, in particular, he had renounced his original wartime goal of demilitarizing Ukraine. … .In return, the Ukrainian president agreed to renounce joining NATO – a position he also repeated publicly a short time later.
...
In the interview, Bennett explained further: “I had the impression at the time that both sides were very interested in a ceasefire (…). According to Bennett, a cease-fire was within reach at that time, and both sides were prepared to make considerable concessions…. But Britain and the U.S., in particular, wanted this peace process to end and set their sights on a continuation of the war.” (Ibid)
...
Like Bennet, also he [former German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder] came to the conclusion that the reason why these peace negotiations were abandoned was because the Americans obstructed them. He said: “At the peace negotiations in March 2022 in Istanbul with Rustem Umerov (then security advisor to Zelensky, now Ukrainian defense minister), the Ukrainians did not agree to peace because they were not allowed to. They first had to ask the Americans about everything they discussed,” and continued: “But at the end (of the peace negotiations) nothing happened. My impression was that nothing could happen because everything else was decided in Washington. That was fatal.”

The Turkish Foreign Minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, who organized the Istanbul meeting at the time, had previously made similar comments. In an interview with CNN Turk on April 20, 2022, he said: “Some NATO states wanted the Ukraine conflict to continue in order to weaken Russia.”
...
But this initial support quickly turned sour, with NATO opposing any such negotiations before Russia doesn’t withdraws all its troops from Ukrainian territories. This, in fact, killed all negotiations. Michael von der Schulenburg, former UN Assistant Secretary-General (ASG) in UN peace missions, writes that “NATO had already decided at a special summit on March 24, 2022, not to support these peace negotiations (between Ukraine and Russia).” (Cf. Michael von der Schulenburg: UN Charter: Negotiations! In: Emma, March 6, 2023). The US president had flown in especially for this special summit to Brussels. Obviously, peace as negotiated by the Russian and Ukrainian negotiating delegations was not in the interest of some NATO countries.

AT FIRST ZELENSKY STICKS TO THE OUTCOME OF THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS
 
“As late as March 27, 2022, Zelensky had shown the courage to defend the results of the Ukrainian-Russian peace negotiations in public before Russian journalists – and this despite the fact that NATO had already decided at a special summit on March 24, 2022, not to support these peace negotiations.” (Ibid)
...
The Washington Post reported April 5 that in NATO, continuing the war is preferred to a cease-fire and negotiated settlement: “[yellow=red,2,300]For some in NATO, it’s better for Ukrainians to keep fighting and dying[/glow] than to achieve a peace that comes too soon or at too high a price for Kiev and the rest of Europe.” Zelensky, he said, should “keep fighting until Russia is completely defeated.”

BORIS JOHNSON’S MESSAGE TO UKRAINIANS ON APRIL 9, 2022: WE MUST CONTINUE THE WAR

On April 9, 2022, Boris Johnson arrived unannounced in Kiev and told the Ukrainian president that the West was not ready to end the war. According to Britain’s Guardian on April 28, PM Johnson had “instructed” Ukrainian President Zelensky “not to make any concessions to Putin”:
...
Johnson brought two simple messages with him to Kiev. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. The second is that even if Ukraine is willing to sign some agreements with Putin on guarantees, but that the collective West is not.
...
Johnson took the position that the collective West, which as recently as February had suggested that Zelensky should surrender and flee, now feels that Putin is not really as powerful as they had previously imagined. Moreover, there is an opportunity to put pressure on him. And the West wants to take it.”

...
The Neue Züricher Zeitung (NZZ) reported on April 12 that the British government under Johnson is counting on a Ukrainian military victory. Conservative Member of the House of Commons Alicia Kearns said, “We’d rather arm the Ukrainians to the teeth than give Putin a success.” British Foreign Secretary (and later Prime Minister) Liz Truss professed in a keynote speech that “victory for Ukraine (…) is a strategic imperative for us all and therefore military support must be massively expanded”. Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins warned: “Liz Truss risks inflaming the war in Ukraine for her own ambitions.”
...
Following his second visit to Kiev on April 25, 2022, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said the U.S. wants to use the opportunity to permanently weaken Russia militarily and economically in the wake of the Ukraine war. According to the New York Times, the U.S. government is no longer concerned with a fight over control of Ukraine, but with a fight against Moscow in the wake of a new Cold War.
...
In his announcement of the partial mobilization, Putin stated on September 21, 2022:

“I would like to make this public for the first time today. After the start of the special military operation, especially after the talks in Istanbul, the Kiev representatives expressed quite positive views on our proposals. These proposals were mainly about ensuring Russia’s security and interests. But a peaceful solution obviously did not suit the West, which is why Kiev, after agreeing on some compromises, was actually ordered to nullify all these agreements.”
...
This makes the Western intervention, which prevented an early end to the war, even more disastrous for Ukraine. Russia’s responsibility for the attack, which was contrary to international law, is not relativized by the fact that responsibility for the grave consequences that Ukraine’s Western supporters that ensued must also be attributed to the states that demanded the continuation of the war.

I know it's too long and most won't read but i feel it's very important to get to the root cause of the conflict and read the whole thing. Also published here https://michael-von-der-schulenburg.com/how-the-chance-was-lost-for-a-peace-settlement-of-the-ukraine-war/

It's like creating a monster that gets out of your control. US seems to now want to backtrack and find a way out of this, but its Ukrainians who have been brainwashed a bit too much, now are the ones who are not ready to stop the bloodshed. Aren't you still interested in weakening Russia, cause we all are totally ready to die for that   how do you stop that

So first Putin was saying that agreement was almost reached with Ukraine at the start of the war, but west blocked it and told Ukraine to fight instead, but it was dismissed as propaganda, ok, fair enough. Then UN Assistant Secretary-General pretty much confirmed it, which was harder to dismiss. And now head of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's political party, who was present at peace negotiations, pretty much confirmed it too. West didn't provide guarantees and told Ukraine to fight instead.

Russia offered to end Moscow's invasion of Ukraine in the spring of 2022 if Ukraine agreed to drop its ambitions to join NATO, according to the head of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's political party, who was present at peace negotiations.
...
According to Arakhamia, however, there was a drafted peace agreement between Ukrainian and Russian negotiators early in the war. Arakhamia said that Moscow pledged to end the fighting if Ukraine's agreed to remain neutral and forego its bid to join NATO.
...
"They were ready to end the war if we took...neutrality and made commitments that we would not join NATO. This was the key point," the Ukrainian official added.
...
Russian officials have warned that fighting would only escalate if Ukraine was admitted into NATO, which would solidify Kyiv's alliances with Western countries like the United States and the United Kingdom.
...
Elsewhere in the interview, Arakhamia brought up former U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson's surprise visit to Kyiv in April 2022. He said Johnson encouraged Ukraine to not "sign anything" with Russia and "just fight."

Since Ukraine's top military general Zaluzhnyi said that Ukraine is now in a stalemate, Zelenskiy sacked one of Zaluzhnyi's assistant, and another one received a grenade on his birthday and now  Some in Zelenskyy’s party want to oust Zaluzhnyi..Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is trying to shift the responsibility for failures during the war onto Zaluzhnyi and MP from Zelensky's party slams commander-in-chief, calls for his dismissal

And now, ex-president of Ukraine is not allowed to leave Ukraine Poroshenko barred from leaving Ukraine over planned meeting with Orban and The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) has accused former President Poroshenko of conspiring with Orbán on behalf of the Kremlin.

Also, the other player Klitschko who was in opposition and from the infamous leak Nuland: Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea. now says this Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko has told Der Spiegel that Ukraine is moving towards authoritarianism, seemingly making a veiled criticism of President Volodymyr Zelensky...Despite being the mayor of Ukraine's capital, Klitschko said he hasn't talked to Zelensky since the full-scale invasion began.  

Now to the west, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg warned that the Western military alliance should be ready for bad news from the Ukrainian front as Kyiv continues to defend against Russia's all-out invasion..."We should also be prepared for bad news,” Stoltenberg added, without being more specific. and Brown [US’s top general, Charles Q. Brown Jr chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff ]also said the US is working to shape the outcome of the war in Ukraine by providing aid to Kyiv, but said that military means alone won’t decide the outcome. “With any military conflict, you don’t solve it completely with military means,” he said. “It ends up with a diplomatic solution.”

So at first pretty much all sides confirmed that west stopped Ukraine from signing the peace agreement with Russia. (West wouldn't provide guarantees and told Ukraine to just fight) now that it's starting to effect the "west" they started to send even less weapons to Ukraine and telling it to find a diplomatic solution. Guess no one really cares how to sell it to Ukrainian population now, not sure how you could put a positive spin on that, go ahead now you can sign the new agreement at even worse terms but your losses weren't in vain because you protected NATO   (even though NATO was fine in 2013)

[suchmoon]

[...]

[...]
not sure how you could put a positive spin on that, go ahead now you can sign the new agreement at even worse terms but your losses weren't in vain because you protected NATO   (even though NATO was fine in 2013)

Not sure how to tell you this, but you're arguing with yourself here. Sorry about your mental illness, perhaps taking a break from the internet would be beneficial for you.

[paxmao]

...

Michael von der Schulenburg is a former UN Assistant Secretary-General, who worked for over 34 years for the United Nations

Hajo Funke is Professor Emeritus for political sciences of the Otto-Suhr-Institute/ Freie University Berlin

General (ret.) Harald Kujat was the highest ranging German officer of the Bundeswehr and at NATO
...
Just one month after the start of the Russian military intervention in Ukraine, Ukrainian and Russian negotiators had come very close to an agreement for a ceasefire and to an outline for a comprehensive peace solution to the conflict.
...
Contrary to Western interpretations, Ukraine and Russia agreed at the time that the planned NATO expansion was the reason for the war. They therefore focused their peace negotiations on Ukraine’s neutrality and its renunciation of NATO membership. In return, Ukraine would have retained its territorial integrity except for Crimea. [...]
...
The Washington Post reported April 5 that in NATO, continuing the war is preferred to a cease-fire and negotiated settlement: “[yellow=red,2,300]For some in NATO, it’s better for Ukrainians to keep fighting and dying[/glow] than to achieve a peace that comes too soon or at too high a price for Kiev and the rest of Europe.” Zelensky, he said, should “keep fighting until Russia is completely defeated.”

BORIS JOHNSON’S MESSAGE TO UKRAINIANS ON APRIL 9, 2022: WE MUST CONTINUE THE WAR

On April 9, 2022, Boris Johnson arrived unannounced in Kiev and told the Ukrainian president that the West was not ready to end the war. According to Britain’s Guardian on April 28, PM Johnson had “instructed” Ukrainian President Zelensky “not to make any concessions to Putin”:
...
Johnson brought two simple messages with him to Kiev. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. The second is that even if Ukraine is willing to sign some agreements with Putin on guarantees, but that the collective West is not.
...[...]

[...]

You need to learn to summarize. Putin demand was that Ukraine would not join NATO and Ruzzia would keep the illegally acquired territory - something difficult to see as a "win-win". And on top of that he also wants to impose conditions on NATO and the European countries. That's not a plan is a threat.

What is another obvious problem with this "plan"? There is nothing preventing Putin for annexing more land at will. The "West" cannot provide guarantees to a country that is effectively prevented from having the means to defend itself and from getting the protection of an alliance.

What type of deal is that then? What would prevent Putin from toppling the government of Ukraine at will or take new territories? Again, not a plan but a threat -"do as I say or else it will be worse"

The answer is "since Ukraine has to either fight or be under Moscow control, we fight and we s do it ASAP". Sorry if this was not the answer Putin was expecting, sorry if he thought the European Union would not help, US not get involved and the Ukrainians not willing to fight. A head of state that makes such as errors in judgement should not be in charge of a country. Well... except Ruzzia.

It does not resist even the most elementary analysis.

[Branko]

You need to learn to summarize. Putin demand was that Ukraine would not join NATO and Ruzzia would keep the illegally acquired territory - something difficult to see as a "win-win". And on top of that he also wants to impose conditions on NATO and the European countries. That's not a plan is a threat.

What is another obvious problem with this "plan"? There is nothing preventing Putin for annexing more land at will. The "West" cannot provide guarantees to a country that is effectively prevented from having the means to defend itself and from getting the protection of an alliance.

What type of deal is that then? What would prevent Putin from toppling the government of Ukraine at will or take new territories? Again, not a plan but a threat -"do as I say or else it will be worse"

The answer is "since Ukraine has to either fight or be under Moscow control, we fight and we s do it ASAP". Sorry if this was not the answer Putin was expecting, sorry if he thought the European Union would not help, US not get involved and the Ukrainians not willing to fight. A head of state that makes such as errors in judgement should not be in charge of a country. Well... except Ruzzia.

It does not resist even the most elementary analysis.

Even Ukrainians see it more clear now than you do 

"Ukrainian telegram channel Ze Rada: "Hero of Russia Boris Johnson.  It was Boris Johnson who convinced Kiev to withdraw from all negotiations on June 20, 2022.
 At the moment when the Russian Federation made a critical mistake, deciding that a police operation (now the beginning of the SMO is assessed in this way) could persuade Kiev to compromise, at the moment of weakness of the elites, ready to record a historical defeat by signing the “Shameful World 2.0”, the “shaggy one” came to the rescue.  A man who held a position in which the fight against Russia never stops.  When it seemed: “that’s it record the actual defeat of Russia, write textbooks about it, create a movie, blow up the country from the inside with “patriots,” but Boris decided that the main thing was not to lose his place in London intrigues, and to please his personal desire to remain in  chair, convinced the second such tyrant to “put the squeeze” on Russia.

 And Russia resisted, as it has resisted many times in history.  People suddenly returned from African missions who knew how to fight in a new way, specific instructions came down from above, and a new paradigm was explained to the elites.  The opposition left on its own, purges of generals and officials began, billions were invested in the military-industrial complex.  Russia showed exactly that “long will” that Arestovich spoke about: slowly and ponderously, with mistakes and obstacles, but they began to change the country.  And then Xi arrived and said: “We’ll stand a little behind and won’t let you fall.”  90% of the sanctioned goods went through the PRC, increasing the production of drones, Shaheds arrived from Iran, a million shells arrived from the DPRK, but that was all later, and at the most difficult moment, Boris was the first to help Russia.

 And you called Trump an agent of Russia..."

[paxmao]

You need to learn to summarize. Putin demand was that Ukraine would not join NATO and Ruzzia would keep the illegally acquired territory - something difficult to see as a "win-win". And on top of that he also wants to impose conditions on NATO and the European countries. That's not a plan is a threat.

What is another obvious problem with this "plan"? There is nothing preventing Putin for annexing more land at will. The "West" cannot provide guarantees to a country that is effectively prevented from having the means to defend itself and from getting the protection of an alliance.

What type of deal is that then? What would prevent Putin from toppling the government of Ukraine at will or take new territories? Again, not a plan but a threat -"do as I say or else it will be worse"

The answer is "since Ukraine has to either fight or be under Moscow control, we fight and we s do it ASAP". Sorry if this was not the answer Putin was expecting, sorry if he thought the European Union would not help, US not get involved and the Ukrainians not willing to fight. A head of state that makes such as errors in judgement should not be in charge of a country. Well... except Ruzzia.

It does not resist even the most elementary analysis.

Even Ukrainians see it more clear now than you do 

"Ukrainian telegram channel Ze Rada: "Hero of Russia Boris Johnson.  It was Boris Johnson who convinced Kiev to withdraw from all negotiations on June 20, 2022.
 At the moment when the Russian Federation made a critical mistake, deciding that a police operation (now the beginning of the SMO is assessed in this way) could persuade Kiev to compromise,[...]

 And Russia resisted, as it has resisted many times in history.[...]

 And you called Trump an agent of Russia..."

I think has strong links to Ruzzia yes. Either that or he cannot tell allies from enemies. He has stated many times that "he would end the war in a day" - which regardless of being another hyperbole, there is only one way to achieve that result - giving Ruzzia whatever they want. But let's no always make all about Trump, it is boring.

I do not see how the propaganda you have put in here changes in any way the fact that the deal offered to Ukraine (with impositions on "the West" as a side dish) was less of a bogus, one sided, meant to be broken, unfeasible in regards to guarantees and a threat by the Ruzzia mafia state rather than a deal.

If anything you argument confirms that Ruzzia is about threats. Bullies do not give up until they get a punch in the nose.

As for sanctions, they are as effective as "freezing Europe". As for Ruzzia resisting...

[Branko]

Lets see what Germans say, then

https://twitter.com/Glenn_Diesen/status/1731246434492531130

[paxmao]

Lets see what Germans say, then

[link to propaganda removed]

Because the Germans speak with one voice, and you just happen to have found the guy who speaks for them? And it happens that the origin of the comment is a Norwegian guy, involved in propaganda activities from Ruzzia.

I any case, again, irrelevant, the deal was a bogus, it imposed conditions on western democracies and it would only last until Putin felt like taking more land.

Economically, Putin should fail. If the US citizens are convinced that they should "do nothing" then is likely Ruzzia will have some type of success. Europe is one of the few allies of the US in the world, if US fails to support the price to pay would be felt for generations.