⚽ UEFA Euro 2024 in Germany ⚽ - Qualifiers➡Group Stage➡1/8➡QF➡HF➡FINAL

[Lucius]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

~snip~
I think it's time to stop underestimating Croatia and to show respect for all that they have achieved recently.

That's what our coach says, and he is certainly the best coach after the great Ciro Blazevic, who won third place with Croatia at the 1998 world championship in France. However, I think that we don't respect ourselves enough, and others see that and that's why they behave that way. Everyone who comes to Croatia and sees our football stadiums is unpleasantly surprised by how bad it looks - and at the same time those who should build them are stealing billions and laughing in everyone's face.

[Sithara007]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

[Daniel91]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

I can agree with this.
Many people do not really follow football too much and do not know much about the players and the strength of individual teams, so they simply play it safe without too much analysis and concrete facts and choose only big and well-known nations as favorites before the upcoming world competitions.
If something is repeated a hundred times, it will not become true just because of the constant repetition of the same thing.
Personally, I found it funny when I read sports predictions before the start of the World Cup in Qatar, when most of the forum members predicted that the current world vice-champion Croatia would not even make it to the knockout stage of the competition and that Croatia will be last in its group. Germany and Belgium were the favorites to win the world championship title in their opinion. So much for those baseless sports predictions 

[Lucius]

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England.

This is not the place for politics, but I will just say that most of Western Europe was against Croatia being an independent country 30+ years ago and they showed it by doing nothing while the barbarians committed terrible crimes against the Croats - they even imposed an embargo on us the import of weapons so that we cannot defend ourselves. These two countries that you mentioned stood out in this regard, and in this we should look for part of the reason why Croatia, as a small nation, is still underestimated in sports circles.

These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

The money that individual nations invest in football and everything that comes with it must somehow be justified, and if small countries disrupt the plans of big ones, then that is not good for "business". I have no doubt that at the next European championship we will talk about refereeing again, just as I have no doubt that they will try to do everything in their power to push the home team as close as possible to the final.

[Ulven]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

I can agree with this.
Many people do not really follow football too much and do not know much about the players and the strength of individual teams, so they simply play it safe without too much analysis and concrete facts and choose only big and well-known nations as favorites before the upcoming world competitions.
If something is repeated a hundred times, it will not become true just because of the constant repetition of the same thing.
Personally, I found it funny when I read sports predictions before the start of the World Cup in Qatar, when most of the forum members predicted that the current world vice-champion Croatia would not even make it to the knockout stage of the competition and that Croatia will be last in its group. Germany and Belgium were the favorites to win the world championship title in their opinion. So much for those baseless sports predictions 

In the world of sports, it is typical for people to make forecasts based on general consensus or without doing much analysis. These forecasts are occasionally affected by the standing or track record of particular teams or players. But as you pointed out, just saying something repeatedly doesn't make it real!!
with the specific example you gave with the World Cup predictions in Qatar, it's important to note that sports forecasts are hypothetical and frequently dependent on individual judgment or analysis. Sports are exciting and unpredictable since the real results can sometimes differ from the expected ones!!!!It's always exciting to observe how things develop and to experience the shocks and upsets that take place in sports. Therefore, even if they can be fun to make and offer fodder for conversation, forecasts shouldn't be taken as gospel. Instead, they should be treated with caution.

[rdluffy]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It makes sense what you said
Speaking from the economic point of view and the interests of FIFA / UEFA, it is not in their interest for Croatia to be a champion for example
We fans really like to see teams that are not favorites, being champions or ending in a good position in championships
But FIFA would make much more money having a champion like Germany, Spain or England, than Croatia.

That's what our coach says, and he is certainly the best coach after the great Ciro Blazevic, who won third place with Croatia at the 1998 world championship in France. However, I think that we don't respect ourselves enough, and others see that and that's why they behave that way. Everyone who comes to Croatia and sees our football stadiums is unpleasantly surprised by how bad it looks - and at the same time those who should build them are stealing billions and laughing in everyone's face.

It's sad to hear this, I don't live in Europe, so there are things that we only learn about via TV or internet
If the conditions are not that good, the whole Croatian team deserves even more for having made it this far

In the last years the team that is most talked about, apart from the ones that are already world champions, is Belgium, but if you analyze the results, Croatia has been better.
And finally, I think Croatia has the best chance at the moment to be Nations League champion. The title is within reach, it is possible to beat Netherlands and it is also possible to beat Spain or Italy.

[bitgolden]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

A lot of people have difficulty accepting that because it is not true? Croatia might be a better "team" than both of them, if we are talking about being a team, like having a team tactic and friendship and chemistry, yes it's true that they have better than anyone else in the world, they built a roster and even while roster is changing at times they are just too friendly with each other and play well together.

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

[Sithara007]

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

This is a strange argument. England and France are home to some of the richest football clubs in this planet and therefore the local players can expect to get good contracts. Croatian players on the other hand doesn't get noticed by these clubs very often. Around half of them play for Croatian clubs, such as Dinamo Zagreb. But that doesn't mean that these players are inferior when compared to players from England or France. And the contract values are not purely based on performance. Fan following also plays its part. England players can demand a higher contract value, since their fanbase is larger.

[Lucius]

It makes sense what you said
Speaking from the economic point of view and the interests of FIFA / UEFA, it is not in their interest for Croatia to be a champion for example
We fans really like to see teams that are not favorites, being champions or ending in a good position in championships
But FIFA would make much more money having a champion like Germany, Spain or England, than Croatia.

Exactly, because the country that has been in the game longer earns more, not only the football association of that country, but also the entire economy of that country, considering how much the fans in those countries spend during the time they support their team.

It's sad to hear this, I don't live in Europe, so there are things that we only learn about via TV or internet
If the conditions are not that good, the whole Croatian team deserves even more for having made it this far.

The president of UEFA was at our main stadium last year and here is what he said:

"We have been talking about this for a long time, with President Kustić, now he is a little more concrete. But governments and local areas must help with that. The stadium is shameful, especially because one of the stands is closed. It is a miracle that Dinamo in such a stadium achieves excellent results. We give all football associations a penny for infrastructure. In Slovenia, for example, UEFA provided 80 percent of the funds for stadiums.

Source

In the last years the team that is most talked about, apart from the ones that are already world champions, is Belgium, but if you analyze the results, Croatia has been better.
And finally, I think Croatia has the best chance at the moment to be Nations League champion. The title is within reach, it is possible to beat Netherlands and it is also possible to beat Spain or Italy.

However, if you look at the odds at most bookmakers, you can see that they (again) gave Croatia the least chance of winning the first place, and they even set the Netherlands as a big favorite in the first game. This is a sample from our local bookmaker.


Source

[slapper]

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

This is a strange argument. England and France are home to some of the richest football clubs in this planet and therefore the local players can expect to get good contracts. Croatian players on the other hand doesn't get noticed by these clubs very often. Around half of them play for Croatian clubs, such as Dinamo Zagreb. But that doesn't mean that these players are inferior when compared to players from England or France. And the contract values are not purely based on performance. Fan following also plays its part. England players can demand a higher contract value, since their fanbase is larger.

Haha. You're hitting the nail, mate! Your contention is as refreshing as a pint of Guinness on a sweltering day – an utter delight! It's not all about the glamour of the club or the grandiosity of the league; it's the prowess on the pitch and the mettle in the player.

Don't misinterpret, I enjoy the spectacle of the Premier League and Ligue 1, but let's remember our Croatian trailblazers lighting the torches at minor clubs. They might lack the dazzling deals or a sea of devotees, but my word, do they radiate intensity on the field! Isn't that the essence of football?

By Jove, let's not pre-judge the book by its cover, or in this context, a player by his contract. So, three cheers for the underrated, the diamonds in the rough, and the unsung heroes of football. Keep pouring your souls on the field, lads, and perhaps, you might be the emerging stars!

[ILuckyGuyI]

Didier Deschamps is still managing France now. There have been speculations such as Zidane might replace him in the near future. But for now it doesn't seem like France board have any such intention. Deschamps has 3 more years on his current contract and it seems like France want to continue with him for a longer period of time. Besides I don't think that there is any need for a replacement either.

Maybe France were beaten by Argentina in the last World Cup finale. But they won the previous World Cup title. I think that they can still be considered as quite successful. Maybe Deschamps would be under more pressure to win a Euro title though. Because the last time they won it was the Euro 2000. If they fail again then maybe there might be a chance for Zidane to start off with a clean slate there who knows. 

But of course it is still too early to be confident about anything related to this topic.

[sana54210]

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

This is a strange argument. England and France are home to some of the richest football clubs in this planet and therefore the local players can expect to get good contracts. Croatian players on the other hand doesn't get noticed by these clubs very often. Around half of them play for Croatian clubs, such as Dinamo Zagreb. But that doesn't mean that these players are inferior when compared to players from England or France. And the contract values are not purely based on performance. Fan following also plays its part. England players can demand a higher contract value, since their fanbase is larger.

Imagine saying that players who play for Dinamo Zagreb could be better than players who are playing for City or PSG, does that make sense to you? If they were that good, then they would have been at big clubs as well, look at Modric, he is the sole winner of Ballon D'or during the period Messi and Ronaldo dominated the award, was he a bad player? Was he just at local league? Of course not, he was dominating the world at Real Madrid at that time and that is why he won.

So all in all, I can easily say that playing for the domestic league is not a good answer, not all English clubs have English players only, and not all French ones have French players, they hire players from other nations and if Croatia was any good, they would be valued a lot higher and be bought by huge clubs. It is as valid argument as it gets.

[mv1986]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

A lot of people have difficulty accepting that because it is not true? Croatia might be a better "team" than both of them, if we are talking about being a team, like having a team tactic and friendship and chemistry, yes it's true that they have better than anyone else in the world, they built a roster and even while roster is changing at times they are just too friendly with each other and play well together.

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

How is Croatia the same level as France? I am all for everyone to express their opinions, but this is almost too far off to be accepted solely as an opinion. The team that France has right now is incredibly strong if you take their first 13 to 14 players. Croatia can't compete with that, but they can still win a single game of course. I thin it is better to assume that if the two teams were to play against each other 10 times, what would be the outcome? I think it would be something like 6 wins France, 2 draws and 2 wins for Croatia. But claiming that they are the same level is odd.

This is a strange argument. England and France are home to some of the richest football clubs in this planet and therefore the local players can expect to get good contracts. Croatian players on the other hand doesn't get noticed by these clubs very often. Around half of them play for Croatian clubs, such as Dinamo Zagreb. But that doesn't mean that these players are inferior when compared to players from England or France. And the contract values are not purely based on performance. Fan following also plays its part. England players can demand a higher contract value, since their fanbase is larger.

Imagine saying that players who play for Dinamo Zagreb could be better than players who are playing for City or PSG, does that make sense to you? If they were that good, then they would have been at big clubs as well, look at Modric, he is the sole winner of Ballon D'or during the period Messi and Ronaldo dominated the award, was he a bad player? Was he just at local league? Of course not, he was dominating the world at Real Madrid at that time and that is why he won.

So all in all, I can easily say that playing for the domestic league is not a good answer, not all English clubs have English players only, and not all French ones have French players, they hire players from other nations and if Croatia was any good, they would be valued a lot higher and be bought by huge clubs. It is as valid argument as it gets.

When it is said that the fanbase is larger in England for England players, does that refer to "English" players or any players who play in England?

I did a little search and found this:

10. Gareth Bale – 50.2 Million Followers
9. James Rodríguez – 50.5 Million Followers
8. Sergio Ramos – 56.7 Million Followers
7. Paul Pogba – 57.3 Million Followers
6. Zlatan Ibrahimovic – 58.2 Million Followers
5. Marcelo – 62 Million Followers
4. Kylian Mbappe – 98.6 Million Followers
3. Neymar Jr. – 204 Million Followers
2. Lionel Messi – 433 Million Followers
1. Cristiano Ronaldo – 551 Million Followers

Not a single player of those with the largest following is English or playing in England.

There was also the point being made in this thread that the FIFA and UEFA are more interested in countries like Germany and England etc. to make it as far as possible in a tournament for financial reasons. thought about that but why would it be worse for the UEFA when an outsider makes it into the final? I doubt that this would significantly impact the total audience on TV. When the final was played in 2004 between Greece and Portugal, there was no single game that had a bigger audience during that tournament with national market share in Germany of close to 70%. I think both has its advantages. When you see a top game between two nations like England and Germany, it can be as interesting if you watch Greece vs. Portugal because it is sensational when a team like Greece wins such a tournament.

[Daniel91]

I can only say that all these bookmakers can only continue to underestimate Croatia, because they have always done so regardless of the results that football team achieved. 2018 second in the world, 2022 third in the world, and in a month they will play the semi-finals of the Nations League  - the only problem is that there are a lot of people for whom such results do not fit into their "plans".

It is very simple actually. A lot of people have difficulty in admitting that Croatia is in the same league as France and England. These same people would rate declining teams such as Germany, Danmark, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden at the same level as France, but somehow they tend to underestimate smaller nations. Anyway, I hope that Euro 2024 will give a good level of clarity on the quality of teams within the UEFA confederation. If Germany is unable to perform, despite being the hosts, then a lot of questions will be raised.

A lot of people have difficulty accepting that because it is not true? Croatia might be a better "team" than both of them, if we are talking about being a team, like having a team tactic and friendship and chemistry, yes it's true that they have better than anyone else in the world, they built a roster and even while roster is changing at times they are just too friendly with each other and play well together.

But when you look at the roster differences, let me put it this way, the roster value of France is 1 billion euros, the same for England? 1.1 billion, now lets take a look at how much Croatia roster worths; 360 million. You can say whatever you want to say for the reason of it, it's just not the same and will never be the same at all.

How is Croatia the same level as France? I am all for everyone to express their opinions, but this is almost too far off to be accepted solely as an opinion. The team that France has right now is incredibly strong if you take their first 13 to 14 players. Croatia can't compete with that, but they can still win a single game of course. I thin it is better to assume that if the two teams were to play against each other 10 times, what would be the outcome? I think it would be something like 6 wins France, 2 draws and 2 wins for Croatia. But claiming that they are the same level is odd.

This is a strange argument. England and France are home to some of the richest football clubs in this planet and therefore the local players can expect to get good contracts. Croatian players on the other hand doesn't get noticed by these clubs very often. Around half of them play for Croatian clubs, such as Dinamo Zagreb. But that doesn't mean that these players are inferior when compared to players from England or France. And the contract values are not purely based on performance. Fan following also plays its part. England players can demand a higher contract value, since their fanbase is larger.

Imagine saying that players who play for Dinamo Zagreb could be better than players who are playing for City or PSG, does that make sense to you? If they were that good, then they would have been at big clubs as well, look at Modric, he is the sole winner of Ballon D'or during the period Messi and Ronaldo dominated the award, was he a bad player? Was he just at local league? Of course not, he was dominating the world at Real Madrid at that time and that is why he won.

So all in all, I can easily say that playing for the domestic league is not a good answer, not all English clubs have English players only, and not all French ones have French players, they hire players from other nations and if Croatia was any good, they would be valued a lot higher and be bought by huge clubs. It is as valid argument as it gets.

When it is said that the fanbase is larger in England for England players, does that refer to "English" players or any players who play in England?

I did a little search and found this:

10. Gareth Bale – 50.2 Million Followers
9. James Rodríguez – 50.5 Million Followers
8. Sergio Ramos – 56.7 Million Followers
7. Paul Pogba – 57.3 Million Followers
6. Zlatan Ibrahimovic – 58.2 Million Followers
5. Marcelo – 62 Million Followers
4. Kylian Mbappe – 98.6 Million Followers
3. Neymar Jr. – 204 Million Followers
2. Lionel Messi – 433 Million Followers
1. Cristiano Ronaldo – 551 Million Followers

Not a single player of those with the largest following is English or playing in England.

There was also the point being made in this thread that the FIFA and UEFA are more interested in countries like Germany and England etc. to make it as far as possible in a tournament for financial reasons. thought about that but why would it be worse for the UEFA when an outsider makes it into the final? I doubt that this would significantly impact the total audience on TV. When the final was played in 2004 between Greece and Portugal, there was no single game that had a bigger audience during that tournament with national market share in Germany of close to 70%. I think both has its advantages. When you see a top game between two nations like England and Germany, it can be as interesting if you watch Greece vs. Portugal because it is sensational when a team like Greece wins such a tournament.

We are having a really interesting discussion here about Croatia and whether Croatia is on the same level as France.
Instead of guesses and speculations, let's look at concrete facts.
Croatia and France have played each other 3 times in the last 5 years and once France won, once Croatia and once their match ended in a draw.
Pure luck and coincidence, or a serious indication that Croatia may still be on the same level as France? 
I want to remind you that last year Croatia beat the strongest team in France with Mbappe in Paris 1:0.
In the final of Russia 2018, we lost to France after a very dubious decision by the referee regarding the penalty and after a very unfortunate own goal by Mandjukić, in the first half in which we completely outplayed the French team.
Of course, everyone has the right to their opinion, but in the last 2 world cups, Croatia beat Argentina with Messi, England, Belgium and Brazil in a row. Have we really had crazy luck every time or is it still a matter of the great quality of the Croatian national team and the sad lack of respect for Croatia by others?

[mv1986]

We are having a really interesting discussion here about Croatia and whether Croatia is on the same level as France.
Instead of guesses and speculations, let's look at concrete facts.
Croatia and France have played each other 3 times in the last 5 years and once France won, once Croatia and once their match ended in a draw.
Pure luck and coincidence, or a serious indication that Croatia may still be on the same level as France? 
I want to remind you that last year Croatia beat the strongest team in France with Mbappe in Paris 1:0.
In the final of Russia 2018, we lost to France after a very dubious decision by the referee regarding the penalty and after a very unfortunate own goal by Mandjukić, in the first half in which we completely outplayed the French team.
Of course, everyone has the right to their opinion, but in the last 2 world cups, Croatia beat Argentina with Messi, England, Belgium and Brazil in a row. Have we really had crazy luck every time or is it still a matter of the great quality of the Croatian national team and the sad lack of respect for Croatia by others?

I have a lot of respect for the Croatian national team and I would never say that a game will ever be easy for any team because it is against Croatia. Indeed, Croatia is an unpleasant, extremely tough opponent, but drawing any conclusions based on three or four games lacks a bit of substance. If you take this approach and apply it to Argentina vs. Saudi Arabia, you will get the same result. But that doesn't mean that Argentina and Saudi Arabia are equally strong and I guess you would agree.

The example is extreme and still different from France vs. Croatia, but there are probably not many people who doubt that France is the better team in regards to individual players. But still an outstanding team performance can beat France. When you want to have a look at numbers and then decide which team has been better so far, I think you could compare the number of participations in the final rounds of the World Cup and the UEFA Euro. For France it is 16 WC participations with 2 titles and 10 UEFA Euro participations with 2 titles. For Croatia it is 6 participations in each tournament and the best result was the runner-up in 2018 at the WC and two times quarter finalists at the UEFA Euro with the last one being in 2008.

[Lucius]

~snip~
For France it is 16 WC participations with 2 titles and 10 UEFA Euro participations with 2 titles. For Croatia it is 6 participations in each tournament and the best result was the runner-up in 2018 at the WC and two times quarter finalists at the UEFA Euro with the last one being in 2008.

If you are already going into history, then it should be mentioned that the modern Croatian state was created in a bloody defensive war in 1991, and during that period it won third place at the world championship in France (1998), second place in Russia (2018), and third place in Qatar (2022). Therefore, Croatia, as a country of only 3.8 inhabitants that has existed for just over 30 years, has historically achieved fantastic results at world championships, and mostly with domestic players with the exception of one Brazilian (Eduardo da Silva), while France mainly relies on players who come from colonized countries, and it was never clear to me why they don't play for their homelands, which every player should do if they have chance.

[Daniel91]

We are having a really interesting discussion here about Croatia and whether Croatia is on the same level as France.
Instead of guesses and speculations, let's look at concrete facts.
Croatia and France have played each other 3 times in the last 5 years and once France won, once Croatia and once their match ended in a draw.
Pure luck and coincidence, or a serious indication that Croatia may still be on the same level as France? 
I want to remind you that last year Croatia beat the strongest team in France with Mbappe in Paris 1:0.
In the final of Russia 2018, we lost to France after a very dubious decision by the referee regarding the penalty and after a very unfortunate own goal by Mandjukić, in the first half in which we completely outplayed the French team.
Of course, everyone has the right to their opinion, but in the last 2 world cups, Croatia beat Argentina with Messi, England, Belgium and Brazil in a row. Have we really had crazy luck every time or is it still a matter of the great quality of the Croatian national team and the sad lack of respect for Croatia by others?

I have a lot of respect for the Croatian national team and I would never say that a game will ever be easy for any team because it is against Croatia. Indeed, Croatia is an unpleasant, extremely tough opponent, but drawing any conclusions based on three or four games lacks a bit of substance. If you take this approach and apply it to Argentina vs. Saudi Arabia, you will get the same result. But that doesn't mean that Argentina and Saudi Arabia are equally strong and I guess you would agree.

The example is extreme and still different from France vs. Croatia, but there are probably not many people who doubt that France is the better team in regards to individual players. But still an outstanding team performance can beat France. When you want to have a look at numbers and then decide which team has been better so far, I think you could compare the number of participations in the final rounds of the World Cup and the UEFA Euro. For France it is 16 WC participations with 2 titles and 10 UEFA Euro participations with 2 titles. For Croatia it is 6 participations in each tournament and the best result was the runner-up in 2018 at the WC and two times quarter finalists at the UEFA Euro with the last one being in 2008.

I'm not comparing just a few games, but all the games at the last 2 world cups, on a sample of 14 games.
When we look at the results of all national teams at the last 2 world cups, Croatia is the second most successful national team in the world, after France.
We can go further into the past and look at all the world cups from 1998 until today and we will understand that Croatia participated in 6 world cups and won a medal in 3 world cups, in every second world cup in which it participated. No national team in the world can boast of such great success.
Before 1998, there is no point in comparing because Croatia did not exist as an independent state.
At all those world cups, Croatia defeated very strong national teams such as Germany, the Netherlands, Italy, Argentina, England, Belgium, Brazil... so I find it really funny the claims that Croatia is not at the level of those national teams, as well as the claims that all its successes in the last 6 world cups, it was the result of some crazy luck and not the enormous quality of the Croatian national team. Please show respect to Croatia and stop underestimating the Croatian national team.

[mv1986]

~snip~
For France it is 16 WC participations with 2 titles and 10 UEFA Euro participations with 2 titles. For Croatia it is 6 participations in each tournament and the best result was the runner-up in 2018 at the WC and two times quarter finalists at the UEFA Euro with the last one being in 2008.

If you are already going into history, then it should be mentioned that the modern Croatian state was created in a bloody defensive war in 1991, and during that period it won third place at the world championship in France (1998), second place in Russia (2018), and third place in Qatar (2022). Therefore, Croatia, as a country of only 3.8 inhabitants that has existed for just over 30 years, has historically achieved fantastic results at world championships, and mostly with domestic players with the exception of one Brazilian (Eduardo da Silva), while France mainly relies on players who come from colonized countries, and it was never clear to me why they don't play for their homelands, which every player should do if they have chance.

Regrettably, you snipped the part where I said that I have a lot of respect for the Croatian team and you gave some reasons why. Everything you said is true and it is definitely worth a discussion, but it is different from the assessment as to which is the better team playing under a certain national flag. Croatia is a great soccer team and I follow their games at the big tournaments with a lot of excitement. Generally, I have a lot of respect for smaller nations competing well at international tournaments. Or countries that are not at all favorites like Morocco eliminating Spain and Portugal at the World Cup in Qatar. I am all for surprises like that.

But when it comes to a comparison, I can only consider the facts that are relevant to the game itself. Whether those facts are based on shortcomings or injustices isn't relevant for that question alone. Take as an example Qatar at the handball World Cup in 2015 when they naturalized players from abroad in order for those players to become part of the Qatar handball team. That is ridiculous. But when someone asked me whether I think that "Qatar" is going to beat team X, I have to accept the fact that some names on the Qatar squad are there, even if they shouldn't be under normal or fair circumstances.

If I had to choose the team that is better in my opinion, I would choose France over Croatia and I am not saying that France is like vastly superior and the odds are 90:10 in favor of France in any game. But I would say that France is stronger and in a long term battle would probably win more games than they tie or lose against Croatia.


@Daniel91 who said that Croatia's successes were based on some crazy luck? I didn't. I am not surprised that Croatia is a successful team because they are damn good. But in my opinion France is damn damn good, which is > damn good.

[LUCKMCFLY]

I also want to believe in Belgium to do a nice work at least in the qualifiers. They have a Lukaku who has been in great shape recently. His latest performance in the qualifiers was also very impressive. Maybe he was disappointing in the latest World Cup and maintained this bad look for a while later on too. But now it seems like he has found his rhythm. His scoring contribution is so valuable for this team now.

I have also heard about the arguments between some players. But this team shouldn't just be the victim of this kind of mutual problems. There are great players like Lukaku, De Bruyne and many more in the squad. This combination deserves to play for a title indeed. Chemistry is everything for a team so they need to keep their chemistry level as high as possible.

funny that in the past i questioned myself why belgium was at the top of the world ranking of the national teams, i just didn't accept the way the national teams were, then the world cup came and clearly showed how many teams in the ranking didn't deserve to be in certain positions, now I see that argentina is at the top, then comes france, then comes brazil in position 3, and once again to my surprise i see belgium in position 4, it is unbelievable that england is in position 5 and croatia in position 7. i wonder where is belgium better than england? I just don't see Belgium being better than England

in the world cup belgium had a bad performance, so we'll see if they can make it to the euro and how far they will be able to get in the euro, in my opinion lukaku is not as good as he was in the past before he returned to play for chelsea , I agree that De Bruyne is undoubtedly a great player for Manchester City and that he creates many problems for opponents, but a team needs many other players to be playing well to have good results and in my opinion I don't see Belgium getting very far in the euro and I can't even understand why the hell they are in position number 4 in the fifa ranking

The Red Devils of Belgium I think they need to vindicate themselves, because first they don't have a bad team, they have great players, for me it is a golden generation, and they cannot take advantage of it, for me the error is not in the players, for me here The only one that must change quickly is the Belgium coach who did not know how to handle these stars, with only 1 player of these in another team they always make a difference, so it is not possible for them to play together to make boring games and have the worst performance that they have hated to imagine, I think that if they fix the coach things can change for Belgium and yes, I can see them better Positioned.

[Zackgeno96]

Belgium had a golden generation, but it has receded into the background. They have had the momentum in 2018, where they could have become world champions. It's a pity that it didn't work out there then, but maybe we'll see another attempt at the European Championships next year. They have a new generation, with many talented football players supplemented with big names such as Lukaku and de Bruyne. I therefore think that we should certainly not underestimate Belgium, but Germany seems to me to be the favorite with France. Germany of course has a huge advantage because all matches are played in Germany.