New Official AMT Thread

[rik_khaos]

Is it possible to implement looking for a simple 'I'm alive' signal from the cards for a few seconds to give them a chance to wake up before starting the device present scan? Kinda a reverse PWR_OK function. Or quick & dirty, just delay the scan for a few seconds after power up?

Delay the start of cgminer a few sec to let other background devices come alive first?

Actually, raises the question of how the power-up Vdd voltage is set. Hopefully it is hard wired to start at a safe voltage until told otherwise - right?... What happens if +12v is applied without backplane communications?

 A while ago on BFL's blog it was said the Monarchs start up at Turbo voltages until coms are established. Power input is around 1.5x normal during that time... Dunna know if they addressed that or if the chips just needs a kick in the butt to start up. Sound familiar (kick) from the A1 dev thread ISA?

Voltage does sky rocket. If i remember rightly if you leave out the gpio cable by accident voltages go to 0.92 ish. But as its not mining its ok but you must switch off and put gpio cable back in otherwise i fear it may blow a chip or two from prolonged exposure.
What amt have said previously is what we had done to revive our boards and had the vddc as high as 5.0 voltages crept to 0.87-0.88 max and mined well but tuned back down again to save blowing anything hence why one card seems to under run

I'm not sure how that helps us with hardware that has already blown. It's been well documented, and then used for diagnostics by the guys here to try and figure out whats up.

I mean I know this message will be gone in a second excuse they apparently want to delete anything I post regardless of temperament.

It sucks when you are cordial in your dealings but are essentially blown off. That is what is resulting in bad reputation. The parts issue are completely understandable once communicated.

[rik_khaos]

Mmm. Guess we gave them somethings to chew on for a while

I requested some driver info so I can get these things working. That is my hold up at the moment. I might be able to get it working without the driver info, I am still working at it.

Why do you need a new driver when a couple of folks supposedly don't have a problem running the system?

Because some of us do...

That is like windows saying, why patch windows, it works for a few... xD

That assumes that the hardware is different,  don't we have the same hardware?

The idea here is to make sure the driver picks up and tunes things properly. It was enough for bitmine to do the same and release a version of their firmware as well. However there are components that require detection. Like the backplane is not being picked up in my current iteration. I should be getting similar results running cgminer -DT on the firmware I am building out as I do on the regular firmware. But as I am not I need to figure out what changed in the driver. AMT would have this answer. It would save alot more time than having to reverse engineer the driver. I may go that route anyway.

Bitmine bought up the markets components from the same vendors, resulting in thousands of the sets of the same components on each board. It was the proper way to do it.

Our MFG/SMD fac  bought from different vendors, third parties, and brokers and "where ever we could find them". Claiming it didn't matter. Resulting in different comps from different mfg's on different boards, making some work and some not. "But all the parts are exactly the same value".  Actually no, after a few weeks of analysis we've found several parts from several different lots with substantially different values resulting in anywhere from 20,000 to 40,000 mmf differences. All of this is our fault, we chose the mfg, we're not blaming anyone, just trying to give those of you working on diagnostics and idea as to why the components and comp mfg's/types/sizes  seem to differ somewhat. Our rep is ruined sure, but at least the mfg added the extra 4%-8% on his parts resale margin.

That is a shame. They really should know better than that. I hate seeing people taking advantage of other just to make a quick buck.

[plp]

So whats going to happen AMT ? can we get the boards replaced some how or give us something maybe some hashing power maybe you guy should just mine for us ... or are you guys that's it done not ever going to make it right we made a bad decision in dealing with you guys ?

[FrictionlessCoin]

It is possible to get the driver to do this. It is one reason I am requesting docs on the driver. If it is using the standard A1 driver then I would just need to modify it. But I am largely working blind with the driver side now. I have been reading up a bit on driver coding as its not my strength. But I got enough of a handle on it I think I can make it run a delay just long enough for the hardware to initialize properly.

How much have you read up on the A1's actual chip coms? I see in the pdf on github there are a lot of chip-level detect/response options. Out of my range on the software coding end there but see a lot of possibilities in the command list...

We did rewrite the driver a bit, but moreover wrote in an easy to use i2cdetect app which allowed us to try and set all boards to a specific voltage through the trimpot. For what ever reason, our version of the board (could be the trimpot, could be something else that we never figured out) did not allow the settings of the trimpot to be remembered, hence the default voltage ended up resulting in .92-.94. By creating this extra script, we were able to set all boards at once. It was later implemented in bitmines UI update.

command as follows:

amt-setup

amt-setup dpot (5c-64  seems to be the safe zone)  

depending on the board, components used, heatsink. Where bitmine programs all boards right off the line, we didn't have the luxury.

depending on your board - 5c (higher voltage value)  64 (lower voltage value)  63-64 worked best on pb boards.  In an attempt to try anything, we did a few hundred boards with led, hoping for a better solder between the chips.

scale 5a -5b - 5c -5d- 5e 5f - 60 -61 -62 -63 -64

amt-setup dpot 5d

amt-setup apply

(you've just set a new value - prior to hashing, take a dvm place black to ground and red to any cap next to a chip, you'll get the core voltage)

amt-setup mode

amt-setup mode 16000:720000:2000  this is the under clocked default mode which should be in mode 1.  scale ( 0 - 1 -2 )  correlates to (power saver, nominal, turbo)

set a new mode

amt-setup mode 1 16000:720000:2000

amt-setup apply

amt-setup mode 2 16000:760000:4000

amt-setup apply  

The script also allows for redressing boards among a few other tools which came in handy when individually diagnosing/testing each board on different lots which came out. As we discovered the variation in board performance, and couldn't set the voltage directly on the trimpot, this was the only alternative we could come up with. After we implemented this the initial overall board success went from 2 out of 10 to 4-5 out of 10 off the line, the rest resulting in no chip chain detected from the line, and and extra 20-30% of the successful 40%-50% of new boards off the line, resulting in no chip chain after 2-3 minutes of hashing as well. So out of 10 boards produced, 2 survived.

Why didn't we stop running them and figure out the problem?

We had been constantly met with "Our advise is to keep running, we will address the problems and fix the boards as soon as we understand the problem but since some do work, don't you think you should just ship the ones that and get to the bad ones later".  At the time he had a point, it was more important to deliver. Still looking 100's of bad board daily btw. Things like that were followed by promises of fixing bad boards among several other things.

Anyway, for those of you which have a dvm and know what your doing please play around with the amt-setup options. Reggie is an example of someone that it go it to work with those tools.  In general, we didn't publicize that script in such detail because it allows for direct overclocking, and overclocking leads to RMA anyway which you put it.

Quoted for future reference.   

So the dpot setting must be performed every time on startup up?

Does this work for the case were "no chip chain after 2-3 minutes of hashing as well"?

[opieum2]

It is possible to get the driver to do this. It is one reason I am requesting docs on the driver. If it is using the standard A1 driver then I would just need to modify it. But I am largely working blind with the driver side now. I have been reading up a bit on driver coding as its not my strength. But I got enough of a handle on it I think I can make it run a delay just long enough for the hardware to initialize properly.

How much have you read up on the A1's actual chip coms? I see in the pdf on github there are a lot of chip-level detect/response options. Out of my range on the software coding end there but see a lot of possibilities in the command list...

We did rewrite the driver a bit, but moreover wrote in an easy to use i2cdetect app which allowed us to try and set all boards to a specific voltage through the trimpot. For what ever reason, our version of the board (could be the trimpot, could be something else that we never figured out) did not allow the settings of the trimpot to be remembered, hence the default voltage ended up resulting in .92-.94. By creating this extra script, we were able to set all boards at once. It was later implemented in bitmines UI update.

command as follows:

amt-setup

amt-setup dpot (5c-64  seems to be the safe zone)  

depending on the board, components used, heatsink. Where bitmine programs all boards right off the line, we didn't have the luxury.

depending on your board - 5c (higher voltage value)  64 (lower voltage value)  63-64 worked best on pb boards.  In an attempt to try anything, we did a few hundred boards with led, hoping for a better solder between the chips.

scale 5a -5b - 5c -5d- 5e 5f - 60 -61 -62 -63 -64

amt-setup dpot 5d

amt-setup apply

(you've just set a new value - prior to hashing, take a dvm place black to ground and red to any cap next to a chip, you'll get the core voltage)

amt-setup mode

amt-setup mode 16000:720000:2000  this is the under clocked default mode which should be in mode 1.  scale ( 0 - 1 -2 )  correlates to (power saver, nominal, turbo)

set a new mode

amt-setup mode 1 16000:720000:2000

amt-setup apply

amt-setup mode 2 16000:760000:4000

amt-setup apply  

The script also allows for redressing boards among a few other tools which came in handy when individually diagnosing/testing each board on different lots which came out. As we discovered the variation in board performance, and couldn't set the voltage directly on the trimpot, this was the only alternative we could come up with. After we implemented this the initial overall board success went from 2 out of 10 to 4-5 out of 10 off the line, the rest resulting in no chip chain detected from the line, and and extra 20-30% of the successful 40%-50% of new boards off the line, resulting in no chip chain after 2-3 minutes of hashing as well. So out of 10 boards produced, 2 survived.

Why didn't we stop running them and figure out the problem?

We had been constantly met with "Our advise is to keep running, we will address the problems and fix the boards as soon as we understand the problem but since some do work, don't you think you should just ship the ones that and get to the bad ones later".  At the time he had a point, it was more important to deliver. Still looking 100's of bad board daily btw. Things like that were followed by promises of fixing bad boards among several other things.

Anyway, for those of you which have a dvm and know what your doing please play around with the amt-setup options. Reggie is an example of someone that it go it to work with those tools.  In general, we didn't publicize that script in such detail because it allows for direct overclocking, and overclocking leads to RMA anyway which you put it.

Ok this is highly useful info. Thanks And yea those so appear to be safe ranges (the default it started up with was MUCH higher's bitmine settings which is what fried a whole unit on startup apparently for me).

As for the i2cdetect and commands I can incorporate this into the init process at boot well before cgminer turns up. Since pidora uses systemd I will work on a systemd script tonight. If you have any suggested settings that will/have been working just post them or email me directly. I can work around the remembering issue by making sure the cards get the settings on every boot. Adds a couple seconds to boot but better that than fried or unusable hardware.

EDIT: Also I will see if I can work into the driver code these safe ranges by default. It would need to essentially create a variant of the driver. That will be a for a future version though. I think this setup actually will just work as is. If we are going to be seeing new hardware with these issues fixed, is it even worth the effort? I want to make sure that I am not bringing this back to life (if it indeed can be) only to have it replaced by something else with more refined settings.

As for the advice from the assembler, that was terrible advice, and ultimately is what landed you guys in the situation you are in. I have a clearer picture of what happened but at the end of the day you guys own the business and those assemblers work for you. You are a client. But anyway I think that's long past now. I presume that's being dealt with.

[Chazaki]

It's now May 20th. It has been 5 months and still no miner..... Or refund..... Or communication for that matter. I thought AMT wanted to turn things around? Doesn't seem like that's going to happen ever.....

[opieum2]

Well as far as anyone knows they wont discuss that here really as they are barred from talking about orders and all that due to the lawsuit. That much is clear. So all we can do is really wait. At least they are communicating from a technical standpoint which is helpful for those who do have hardware. Sucks for those who don't, but on the bright side the work we are doing here will ultimately help those who get new miners and might have issues.

[opieum2]

With the price of BTC going up this would have been a good time to get our miners going. Least now I have a fire under my ass to make these miners work (if thats possible)

[opieum2]

It is possible to get the driver to do this. It is one reason I am requesting docs on the driver. If it is using the standard A1 driver then I would just need to modify it. But I am largely working blind with the driver side now. I have been reading up a bit on driver coding as its not my strength. But I got enough of a handle on it I think I can make it run a delay just long enough for the hardware to initialize properly.

How much have you read up on the A1's actual chip coms? I see in the pdf on github there are a lot of chip-level detect/response options. Out of my range on the software coding end there but see a lot of possibilities in the command list...

We did rewrite the driver a bit, but moreover wrote in an easy to use i2cdetect app which allowed us to try and set all boards to a specific voltage through the trimpot. For what ever reason, our version of the board (could be the trimpot, could be something else that we never figured out) did not allow the settings of the trimpot to be remembered, hence the default voltage ended up resulting in .92-.94. By creating this extra script, we were able to set all boards at once. It was later implemented in bitmines UI update.

command as follows:

amt-setup

amt-setup dpot (5c-64  seems to be the safe zone)  

depending on the board, components used, heatsink. Where bitmine programs all boards right off the line, we didn't have the luxury.

depending on your board - 5c (higher voltage value)  64 (lower voltage value)  63-64 worked best on pb boards.  In an attempt to try anything, we did a few hundred boards with led, hoping for a better solder between the chips.

scale 5a -5b - 5c -5d- 5e 5f - 60 -61 -62 -63 -64

amt-setup dpot 5d

amt-setup apply

(you've just set a new value - prior to hashing, take a dvm place black to ground and red to any cap next to a chip, you'll get the core voltage)

amt-setup mode

amt-setup mode 16000:720000:2000  this is the under clocked default mode which should be in mode 1.  scale ( 0 - 1 -2 )  correlates to (power saver, nominal, turbo)

set a new mode

amt-setup mode 1 16000:720000:2000

amt-setup apply

amt-setup mode 2 16000:760000:4000

amt-setup apply  

The script also allows for redressing boards among a few other tools which came in handy when individually diagnosing/testing each board on different lots which came out. As we discovered the variation in board performance, and couldn't set the voltage directly on the trimpot, this was the only alternative we could come up with. After we implemented this the initial overall board success went from 2 out of 10 to 4-5 out of 10 off the line, the rest resulting in no chip chain detected from the line, and and extra 20-30% of the successful 40%-50% of new boards off the line, resulting in no chip chain after 2-3 minutes of hashing as well. So out of 10 boards produced, 2 survived.

Why didn't we stop running them and figure out the problem?

We had been constantly met with "Our advise is to keep running, we will address the problems and fix the boards as soon as we understand the problem but since some do work, don't you think you should just ship the ones that and get to the bad ones later".  At the time he had a point, it was more important to deliver. Still looking 100's of bad board daily btw. Things like that were followed by promises of fixing bad boards among several other things.

Anyway, for those of you which have a dvm and know what your doing please play around with the amt-setup options. Reggie is an example of someone that it go it to work with those tools.  In general, we didn't publicize that script in such detail because it allows for direct overclocking, and overclocking leads to RMA anyway which you put it.

Question since you re-wrote the drivers, can you please document (or email me) the changes you made? or just send me the relevant files? Or are they the ones in the current image now? Ideally any updates you made since then would be good to incorporate them in. I made some progress in the detection. I will be adding what you suggested and your scripts into the overall detection on boot tonight and test that out. Might help with getting this up and running. But if there are default changes in the driver, it would be good to know so I can incorporate those changes. At this point I am hoping the cards just come up at all with this. I am going to look for any short points and adjust the cards accordingly (if the shorts are caused by the cage then I will insulate the contact points).

[NotFuzzyWarm]

AMT_Miners, ISAWHIM and anyone else interested in best practices when it comes to pcb layout & EMC issues - here is link to one of the best references I've come across yet. http://www.emcfastpass.com/rightfirsttime/

Not is only how-to but also strong on the WHY.

[FrictionlessCoin]

AMT_Miners, ISAWHIM and anyone else interested in best practices when it comes to pcb layout & EMC issues - here is link to one of the best references I've come across yet. http://www.emcfastpass.com/rightfirsttime/

Not is only how-to but also strong on the WHY.

Do you think you would be able to design a new board using the reference design available from Bitmine?

You just need to increase the number of A1 chips from two to four (or even eight).

[NotFuzzyWarm]

AMT_Miners, ISAWHIM and anyone else interested in best practices when it comes to pcb layout & EMC issues - here is link to one of the best references I've come across yet. http://www.emcfastpass.com/rightfirsttime/

Not is only how-to but also strong on the WHY.

Do you think you would be able to design a new board using the reference design available from Bitmine?

You just need to increase the number of A1 chips from two to four (or even eight).

Could I using that as a starting point - and being a reference design that is all it is - certainly. Do I have the time needed - hell no. You are looking at at least 2-3 weeks solid spent checking/specing the parts and then doing board layout. Between Opium, ISAWHIM and me we probably have most everything covered to do it I'd think.

Our company is booked solid until next Feb and part of it involves orders for 3 next-gen system I've designed. Taking things off the bench and starting the 1st prototype of it next week when a few structure parts come in. That and why re-invent the wheel? BMch and AMT have already done what is needed to take the A1 from testbed to a real miner, they just seem to have fallen down on implementing it right. That should be changing.

Being that the ref board on Github is all I have to go on so far it strikes me that at least 1 thing is missing from it - coms to the Vdd regulator for tweaking the voltage. Also, where does 5VMAS that feeds the regulator chip come from? Don't see any 5v lines called out on the I/O connectors...

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Guess while we are on the design end of things, good guide from PCB Universe to choosing cladding thickness and how that affects trace layout. http://www.pcbuniverse.com/pcbu-tech-tips.php?a=4 They also have a good faq on via designs.

For general trace width data this calculator is very handy http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/?p=25/
From same folks but for Vias http://circuitcalculator.com/wordpress/2006/03/12/pcb-via-calculator/

[FrictionlessCoin]

AMT_Miners, ISAWHIM and anyone else interested in best practices when it comes to pcb layout & EMC issues - here is link to one of the best references I've come across yet. http://www.emcfastpass.com/rightfirsttime/

Not is only how-to but also strong on the WHY.

Do you think you would be able to design a new board using the reference design available from Bitmine?

You just need to increase the number of A1 chips from two to four (or even eight).

Could I using that as a starting point - and being a reference design that is all it is - certainly. Do I have the time needed - hell no. You are looking at at least 2-3 weeks solid spent checking/specing the parts and then doing board layout. Between Opium, ISAWHIM and me we probably have most everything covered to do it I'd think.

Our company is booked solid until next Feb and part of it involves orders for 3 next-gen system I've designed. Taking things off the bench and starting the 1st prototype of it next week when a few structure parts come in. That and why re-invent the wheel? BMch and AMT have already done what is needed to take the A1 from testbed to a real miner, they just seem to have fallen down on implementing it right. That should be changing.

Being that the ref board on Github is all I have to go on so far it strikes me that at least 1 thing is missing from it - coms to the Vdd regulator for tweaking the voltage. Also, where does 5VMAS that feeds the regulator chip come from? Don't see any 5v lines called out on the I/O connectors...

Well just a suggestion about creating a new board...  you know that the A2 chip set has identical pin layouts.. so if we want to get serious about mining then we could source our chips directly from Innosilicon and save a bundle.

I inquired with them and a single A1 chips is around $45.   So if you go with your own created boards and maybe a mineral oil (or immerssion)... and then locate yourself beside a hydro-electric damn,  then you have a good chance at being profitiable with Bitcoin mining!

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Well just a suggestion about creating a new board...  you know that the A2 chip set has identical pin layouts.. so if we want to get serious about mining then we could source our chips directly from Innosilicon and save a bundle.

I inquired with them and a single A1 chips is around $45.   So if you go with your own created boards and maybe a mineral oil (or immerssion)... and then locate yourself beside a hydro-electric damn,  then you have a good chance at being profitiable with Bitcoin mining!

Ants, even the power hungry S1's, are very profitable for me. Even without the current rise in BTC value my 9-Ant pharm is 3/4 'paid off' in just under 3 month of running. I used the quotes because tonight I'll be using most of the BTC earned to order a s2 from Bitmine...

[opieum2]

Well just a suggestion about creating a new board...  you know that the A2 chip set has identical pin layouts.. so if we want to get serious about mining then we could source our chips directly from Innosilicon and save a bundle.

I inquired with them and a single A1 chips is around $45.   So if you go with your own created boards and maybe a mineral oil (or immerssion)... and then locate yourself beside a hydro-electric damn,  then you have a good chance at being profitiable with Bitcoin mining!

Ants, even the power hungry S1's, are very profitable for me. Even without the current rise in BTC value my 9-Ant pharm is 3/4 'paid off' in just under 3 month of running. I used the quotes because tonight I'll be using most of the BTC earned to order a s2 from Bitmine...

Solid hardware those S2s. A few people bitching over the shipping snafus but they are making geniuine attempts to remedy that for shipping. I got mine in pretty good shape just needed to reseat the cards is all. I got one and it hashes at 960-1200Ghs. No OC needed.

[regtable69]

AMT_Miners, ISAWHIM and anyone else interested in best practices when it comes to pcb layout & EMC issues - here is link to one of the best references I've come across yet. http://www.emcfastpass.com/rightfirsttime/

Not is only how-to but also strong on the WHY.

Do you think you would be able to design a new board using the reference design available from Bitmine?

You just need to increase the number of A1 chips from two to four (or even eight).

I got 8 chips on my boards........ My thought would be say modular chip docks like a cpu so one chip frazzles itself you just nip out the chip and swap it for another. Bobs ya uncle back in business. And during test you can have a bank of them in test ditch or put aside dead and low hash chips ship best of batch use the slow/unresponsive chips to test alt settings send out to prospective people to use as reference or build on see what they can do with it.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Well just a suggestion about creating a new board...  you know that the A2 chip set has identical pin layouts.. so if we want to get serious about mining then we could source our chips directly from Innosilicon and save a bundle.

I inquired with them and a single A1 chips is around $45.   So if you go with your own created boards and maybe a mineral oil (or immerssion)... and then locate yourself beside a hydro-electric damn,  then you have a good chance at being profitiable with Bitcoin mining!

Ants, even the power hungry S1's, are very profitable for me. Even without the current rise in BTC value my 9-Ant pharm is 3/4 'paid off' in just under 3 month of running. I used the quotes because tonight I'll be using most of the BTC earned to order a s2 from Bitmine...

Solid hardware those S2s. A few people bitching over the shipping snafus but they are making geniuine attempts to remedy that for shipping. I got mine in pretty good shape just needed to reseat the cards is all. I got one and it hashes at 960-1200Ghs. No OC needed.

You do know that the S2's are running in what on an s1 would be called super-eco mode don't cha? Last I saw clock is 197mHz and software will let you goose up to 400 same as s1's. If you dunk it in liquid and have one helluva psu that is Take a look at /etc/config/asic-freq for the options you have. The one being used is un-rem'ed.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I got 8 chips on my boards........ My thought would be say modular chip docks like a cpu so one chip frazzles itself you just nip out the chip and swap it for another. Bobs ya uncle back in business. And during test you can have a bank of them in test ditch or put aside dead and low hash chips ship best of batch use the slow/unresponsive chips to test alt settings send out to prospective people to use as reference or build on see what they can do with it.

The BGA chips won't let you do that because they require intimate contact with the thermal vias. As in must be soldered. The chip is too fragile to use a pressure plate to press down on it hard enough to run at full power. But - there *is* a low-temp solder made expressly for futzing around... How it would impact later assembly/lifetime don't know but ja, there needs to be some kind of performance binning done with these.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I got 8 chips on my boards........ My thought would be say modular chip docks like a cpu so one chip frazzles itself you just nip out the chip and swap it for another. Bobs ya uncle back in business. And during test you can have a bank of them in test ditch or put aside dead and low hash chips ship best of batch use the slow/unresponsive chips to test alt settings send out to prospective people to use as reference or build on see what they can do with it.

The BGA chips won't let you do that because they require intimate contact with the thermal vias. As in must be soldered. The chip is too fragile to use a pressure plate to press down on it hard enough to run at full power. But - there *is* a low-temp solder made expressly for futzing around... How it would impact later assembly/lifetime don't know but ja, there needs to be some kind of performance binning done with these.

Hmm... can't you design a board that routes the vias to the top of the board so you can place a heatsink?