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Author Topic: [ANN] IPO of MaidSafe:  Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet  (Read 533057 times)
poornamelessme
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September 11, 2016, 10:09:03 PM
 #2021



Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.  

Now will people need to buy safecoins to download data from the network? Or just to store data?

If free to download, people may use it in lieu of downloading torrents. The issue then is if anyone would
be willing to pay (in safecoins) to just give away files... what is their incentive?

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zeeman
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September 12, 2016, 08:22:03 AM
 #2022



Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.  

Now will people need to buy safecoins to download data from the network? Or just to store data?

If free to download, people may use it in lieu of downloading torrents. The issue then is if anyone would
be willing to pay (in safecoins) to just give away files... what is their incentive?

Downloading from the network will always be free. You only need to pay when you want an account, register a domain or PUT (upload) data to the network. On BitTorrent nobody get's paid for anything. On SAFE everybody who delivers chunks to the network get's paid. That's the trick, when you deliver chunks out of your Vault to the network, like the real chunks your address in XOR is close to, you Farm some safecoin. These coins are created for you when you Farm. If someone uploads data to the network, they have to pay. The coins are then "un-owned" again so free for future farmers to Farm them again. So coins are recycled when someone uploads to the network. So this is it:

  • Run a Vault (be a "seeder" on the network) and the network pays you. That's a great incentive
  • Run the Client to upload data to the network and you pay the network
  • Run the Client to upload "dynamic data" and you pay the network a bit more
  • Run the Client and register a domain name and you pay the network

due to an incentive for running a Vault, a lot of people will. It's like getting Bitcoins for being a seeder on BitTorrent. And each mb. has at least 3 to 5 seeders. So for a 2000 mb. file we have like 10.000 nodes storing and delivering chunks in the hope to make some money.

So you never pay someone directly for storing data. The network does. And as a user you pay the network (give up the coins so someone else can farm them later on). But as a user you can use Safecoin for whatever you like. Tip someone, pay someone etc. Safecoin transactions are expected to take less than a second. Including all the confirmations.  

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September 12, 2016, 04:23:47 PM
 #2023

But if downloading is free, aren't you just inviting 100% utilization of the available bandwidth?

For instance, if I'm hosting partial data, and Netflix decides to house all their motion pictures for streaming on the service.  That would mean those hosting the data would be delivering that data constantly, and it sounds like potentially multiple times if the file is very popular.  In exchange for a few dollars a month?  The economics of that won't work for most people.  Especially if their Internet is being bogged down by all the requests for data on their services. 

Granted, Netflix isn't realistic, but this is just an example.  The point being that there is no penalty for downloading, so everyone can expect their bandwidth to be 100% eaten once they've acquired the files.  Plus, what's the incentive to hold old files?  If I get paid when new stuff is created, and paid when stuff is uploaded.  Why would I then hold old data?  Wouldn't I be better off clearing that data away to make room for more new data?  Storing and distributing it doesn't appear to benefit me at all.

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September 12, 2016, 06:48:25 PM
 #2024

But if downloading is free, aren't you just inviting 100% utilization of the available bandwidth?

For instance, if I'm hosting partial data, and Netflix decides to house all their motion pictures for streaming on the service.  That would mean those hosting the data would be delivering that data constantly, and it sounds like potentially multiple times if the file is very popular.  In exchange for a few dollars a month?  The economics of that won't work for most people.  Especially if their Internet is being bogged down by all the requests for data on their services.  

Granted, Netflix isn't realistic, but this is just an example.  The point being that there is no penalty for downloading, so everyone can expect their bandwidth to be 100% eaten once they've acquired the files.  Plus, what's the incentive to hold old files?  If I get paid when new stuff is created, and paid when stuff is uploaded.  Why would I then hold old data?  Wouldn't I be better off clearing that data away to make room for more new data?  Storing and distributing it doesn't appear to benefit me at all.

Very good questions that came up in several topics >> https://safenetforum.org/t/free-gets-arent-going-to-fly/5836

The network uses "caching". So you run a Vault and get a request from a Vault you are connected with for chunk "ABC". You ask another Vault for that same chunk as you don't have it. In XOR it will take between 3 to 7 steps until the right Vault with chunk "ABC" is found. So that Vault sends the chunk to the Vault that requested the chunk. So it might take 3 to 7 steps before it ends up at the Vault who requested it. What just happened?? 1 Vault (who stored chunk "ABC") got paid some Safecoin. The other 3 to 7 nodes now have the chunk in cache. So if it's requested by others they can deliver in an instant. So the more popular a file becomes on SAFE the faster it get's downloaded. And if you take a 1000 mb. movie for example. It's spread over at least 3000 nodes. So the load for this movie is balanced by design. So the Vaults always help each other with asking and delivering chunks. 1 moment a Vault in the US farmed some Safecoin, next time it's you. If you only made 3 dollar after a month of running would you still want to be run a Vault?? Nope, you would shut it down. And as more people do this, the Farming Reward goes up. So now you can make 5 or 6 dollar a month. Not enough? Well, don't start your Vault! Wait for good prices. And look at Netflix, they can deliver a lot of GB's for like 8 dollar a month. So I expect a lot of small companies (like design studio's with fast fiber) to run Vaults 24H a day as they can make money on it. BitTorrent isn't making anyone money but still people upload and seed stuff like maniacs. I guess with some coins to be made they even seed more.      

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September 13, 2016, 11:21:15 AM
 #2025



The funding went live yesterday. Here's the link for those interested. These are real shares in Maidsafe the company. Not coins.

MaidSafe funding with Banktothefuture

Enjoy!@!
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September 13, 2016, 05:48:06 PM
 #2026



MaidSafe Dev Update 13th September 2016
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September 13, 2016, 05:57:23 PM
 #2027



The funding went live yesterday. Here's the link for those interested. These are real shares in Maidsafe the company. Not coins.

MaidSafe funding with Banktothefuture

Enjoy!@!

What? Crowdfunding to buy their shares? I prefer coins, cause we can't buy and sell their shares easily, and we can only buy with fiat?? No btc payment?
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September 13, 2016, 06:09:44 PM
 #2028

What? Crowdfunding to buy their shares? I prefer coins, cause we can't buy and sell their shares easily, and we can only buy with fiat?? No btc payment?

Bank to the future allows Bitcoin as a payment method : https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/maidsafe-net


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September 13, 2016, 06:15:14 PM
 #2029

Devs have created an email application. Including a full tutorial for external devs to play with. 



MaidSafe Dev Update 13th September 2016
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September 14, 2016, 04:36:38 PM
 #2030

Any spoiler to share about the incentives for the pitch?

"There are a few additions and announcements being planned to increase awareness as this funding round progresses."
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September 15, 2016, 06:44:54 PM
 #2031




Interview with Maidsafe founder David Irvine on the Alex Podcast


Have fun!
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September 16, 2016, 02:53:58 PM
 #2032

Quote
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server is uniquely and securely identified.
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server can be operated independently or in a network.
Every user is uniquely and securely identified.
Every user can search, retrieve, create and store documents.
Every document can consist of any number of parts each of which may be of any data type.
Every document can contain links of any type including virtual copies ("transclusions") to any other document in the system accessible to its owner.
Links are visible and can be followed from all endpoints.
Permission to link to a document is explicitly granted by the act of publication.
Every document can contain a royalty mechanism at any desired degree of granularity to ensure payment on any portion accessed, including virtual copies ("transclusions") of all or part of the document.
Every document is uniquely and securely identified.
Every document can have secure access controls.
Every document can be rapidly searched, stored and retrieved without user knowledge of where it is physically stored.
Every document is automatically moved to physical storage appropriate to its frequency of access from any given location.
Every document is automatically stored redundantly to maintain availability even in case of a disaster.
Every Xanadu Maidsafe service provider can charge their users at any rate they choose for the storage, retrieval and publishing of documents.
Every transaction is secure and auditable only by the parties to that transaction.
The Xanadu Maidsafe client-server communication protocol is an openly published standard. Third-party software development and integration is encouraged.

http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2009/09/27/DuctTapeProgrammersAndTheCultureOfComplexityInSoftwareProjects.aspx

"In practical terms, Project Xanadu Maidsafe was trying to solve too many complex problems in a v1 product."

Definitely no ominous parallels here....   Roll Eyes


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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September 16, 2016, 04:41:04 PM
 #2033

Ontopic please. This is getting boring in a serious topic like this.

Need BadAss Bulletproof VPS or Bulletproof VPN or why not just mail safe with Safe-Mail. We care about your privacy.
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September 16, 2016, 04:46:36 PM
 #2034

Quote
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server is uniquely and securely identified.
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server can be operated independently or in a network.

http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2009/09/27/DuctTapeProgrammersAndTheCultureOfComplexityInSoftwareProjects.aspx

"In practical terms, Project Xanadu Maidsafe was trying to solve too many complex problems in a v1 product."

Definitely no ominous parallels here....   Roll Eyes

So glad SAFE doesn't use servers then  Grin Grin Grin

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September 16, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
 #2035

Quote
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server is uniquely and securely identified.
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server can be operated independently or in a network.

http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2009/09/27/DuctTapeProgrammersAndTheCultureOfComplexityInSoftwareProjects.aspx

"In practical terms, Project Xanadu Maidsafe was trying to solve too many complex problems in a v1 product."

Definitely no ominous parallels here....   Roll Eyes

So glad SAFE doesn't use servers then  Grin Grin Grin


No server, no blockchain, am I correct? If maidsafe will have a beta or official release in next year, the price will be... 0.001 btc. Cheesy

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CryptoTrout
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September 16, 2016, 04:53:46 PM
 #2036

when is the next pump scheduled for?

zeeman
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September 16, 2016, 05:04:26 PM
 #2037

For those interested, we've seen a load of updates today in the Maidsafe repo on GitHub. This is one of the most important ones:



Appendable data is a form of data which can be edited by anyone. So what does this mean? Well let's put it this way. If you work with a server (like websites) you can write a reply, change it afterwards and more. Think of PHP, JAVA and all the great apps we use everyday. As Maidsafe doesn't use any server they had to find a way to make this workable as well. And that's exactly what they did with structured data like appendable data and more. They also created an API for all devs and app-builders to work with. So what could be build with this??

  • Forums
  • Blogs
  • Social Networks
  • "Google docs" where several people can work on the same document
  • Websites that allow replies

It's actually dynamic data without servers on a fully encrypted P2P-network  Tongue. So on the Alpha 1 network everyone can publish a static website. But my guess is in Alpha 2 every devs can create dynamic websites as well like forums, chats and more. The devs also promised a SAFE Email app in the coming days. This will probably use this "structured data" as well.



So lot of great stuff coming.

Here's a list with all the latest repo updates from this friday

Seems the team is on fire with the new hired devs.



 
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September 16, 2016, 05:37:49 PM
 #2038




SAFE Network TEST 9 + SAFE Mail Tutorial


TEST 9 Alive and kicking. Have fun!
zeeman
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September 16, 2016, 07:44:04 PM
 #2039




A video tutorial on youtube about the SAFE Mail App


Enjoy!
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September 17, 2016, 12:22:27 AM
 #2040

Quote
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server is uniquely and securely identified.
Every Xanadu Maidsafe server can be operated independently or in a network.

http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2009/09/27/DuctTapeProgrammersAndTheCultureOfComplexityInSoftwareProjects.aspx

"In practical terms, Project Xanadu Maidsafe was trying to solve too many complex problems in a v1 product."

Definitely no ominous parallels here....   Roll Eyes

So glad SAFE doesn't use servers then  Grin Grin Grin

Data has to be served to users from somewhere.  It won't magically appear from nowhere in the client.

Just because you nitpick about terminology doesn't mean the resemblances to Xanadu are [edit: NOT] uncanny (and damning).

Good luck solving too many complex problems in a v1 product.   Grin


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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