[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[bitwho]

we have consulted with some great devs in the cryptoworld and they all agree Billion coins are not worth for investors.

software developers are not investors nor are they economists. they should not be consulted for investment advice.

the more people talk about changing this crypto coin the more I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies.

Karma is a payment system and a currency, it is not a company and it is not a security.

crypto currency has value because of its utility and because it is to some degree finite.


the biggest selling point of BTC was that there could only ever be 21 million coins. this figure will never change and it is what gives BTC its value and scarcity.

there will only ever be 92 billion (or so) Karma coins... people accepted this fact when they bought into this experiment.

if you change that number, (no matter how you do it), then you send two very strong messages to the market.

Firstly you tell all holders of the coin that their investment is not secure. If you thought you had 100 Karma one day then the next day you could have 1... the day after that you could have 100,000...  all at the whim of a few very vocal self serving investors. (if a coin can be reverse split.. then absolutely nothing stops it from being split again in the future)

Secondly you tell future investors AND users of the currency that the coin is not stable.. if I open up my Karma fruit store on the side of the road selling all kinds of fruit... lets say apples for 50,000 Karma each, oranges for 20,000 karma some day in the future I will have change all of my prices, not only that but when I collect sales tax and then go to pay my quarterly tax obligations I am in a complete mess because someone has decided that half way though the financial year they would chop off a few zeros from every karma that I collected.. so now I have to reconcile two completely different sets of accounting numbers.


There is a reason that currencies are not split and reverse split (ie taking zeroes off and adding zeroes to the end).. and that is because it completely messes up the entire economy from the little grandma on the side of the road selling fruit to the large corporation trying to collect and pay its taxes).

Maybe in countries like Zimbabwe this happens but do you really want Karma to become the zimbabwe dollar of the crypto world?


Yes you can do it with shares on the NYSE no problem this is because shares are not, nor are they intended to be, used as a currency for day to day transactions.

And yes it can be argued that not many people are using Karm at the moment so it doesn't affect many people.. but that is beside the point..a dangerous precedent is being set here. I for one would never have invested in BTC if the developers could just change the numbers whenever it suited them.

If Karma splits then so will I... I'm just about done with people constantly arguing about how to manipulate the price.

This is not what Karma was designed for, this is not the ethos of Karma. If people do not like the idea of a currency which is supposed to used for altruism and education instead of making people rich.. then they should leave rather than try to take over the coin... because a coin that does not stick to its original selling point is pointless.

bitcoin , the highest market cap started introducing sidechain. because they are lacking people using bitcoin to buy goods. bitcoin is stil faily new and they realized they need to adjust. people are holding the coin becuase they think they will be worth 1million each. you can read articles how people are literarly burring the coin to the ground. how can this coin be used healthy when people hold dear to it?

Karma is even younger. we have no other place use this as only few exchanges. such change will not scare anyone grandmother anytime soon. and you are right. we can not go changing the code left and right. But be truthful.. you bought into the "name" and not the code. i don't think anyone went "wow, a scrypt coin. i love it!" but they loved the name and what the coin represent. we are not changing that.

people will hold dear to karma like gold. so lets move the coin up in satoshis. and introduce a color coin as i mention in previous post

karma will not go from $1.5 million cap to $30 million just with reverse split. I am guessing it will adjust at $ 4 mill cap after the initial spike. So basically the same marketcap for now. but we will not risk loosing the btc market and it will give us time to work on project. eventually every single progress will start increasing our marketcap. so doing the split will not mean people 6 months from now missed the train. they still will have time as we will have tons of room for growth

[1714157245]

1714157245

[karmala]

My wife is wearing the new Karmacap from Fabrik! have a look http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,468.0.html

[dinorex]

Why not decrease the number of coins? Can this be an alternative to reverse split?

[jcsc]

My wife is wearing the new Karmacap from Fabrik! have a look http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,468.0.html

This is so cool

[karmala]

Karma and Karmacoin are now our registered trademarks! http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2ad9hk/karma_and_karmacoin_are_now_our_registered/

[raleit2014]

Crypto Analytics reiterates is BUY rating on KARM

for Analysis and Target Price:

http://cryptoanalytics.trade/karm/
@cryptoanalytic

[easteagle13]

About reverse split issue.

I move that this issue be stopped.

Here are the reasons:

1. This issue is against kosmost's own voice that we all have been supporting from the start;

"We will leave it to some of the community to focus on price, while we continue to focus on adding value  
All one needs to do is take a look at our 90-day chart to see a trend forming, especially in the context of our developments."

"We waste too much time on petty nonsense. First we obsessed about price for 20+ pages, now it's this..
Surely we can be more productive  "

"Our coin is healthy, our market is heatlhy. We are still on a path to BTC pairing, and still on track with everything else.
The more our community helps us get there, the better  " etc. etc. along these same lines.

2. It is dividing our small close knit community into PROS, CONS, NEUTRALS.

3. Dropping zero/s by reverse split is actually exchanging what we SURELY have to what we MAY or MAY NOT have.

What real and sure things do we have?                                What we MAY HAVE

* Steadily progressing coin at lowest of 2-3 sats each         *If we drop 1 zero WE MAY have 30 satoshi each but who controls the market price? NO ONE CAN MAKE SURE.
* SMALL Close knit Community with additional values           (For this point its dangerous to gamble)
   we will have more investors.                                        * We MAY HAVE some more investors OR NOT. (For this point it's useless to gamble)
* Trust of the present holders                                         * We MAY HAVE trust of the potential holders OR NOT.
* We have more than enough budget for projects               * We MAY HAVE more budget or LESSER
* We have a more or less good market cap                        * Our market cap is SPECULATED to remain the same IF the market follows with raising price, OR NOT. (why?)
* Without messing with this we can focus on projects         * Everyone is agitated about price because of UNCERTAINTY

4. We know we joined karma community because of it's dependability and stability, because we saw the devs keeping their words, doing things in time. That record will be broken by messing with the coin's number.

5. If we still decide to reverse split and the price plunge what would we do to raise it again? Will we do projects to add value? Why not just do the projects then and continue with the good method we have been doing?

So looking at this at different angles it always raise the flag that it is NOT NEEDED and it is even giving a chance for trouble to happen, which we don't have at the moment.

6. If the small investors that we have been saying we wanted to enter Karma, is having a hard time to buy in now, do we really want to make that 10x, 100x or 1000x harder?

7. please move this issue to the forum cemetary and put a big R.I.P. sign over it.

tl;dr: Stop this.


Please second the motion. http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,463.msg2430.html#msg2430

[ShawnLeary]

we have consulted with some great devs in the cryptoworld and they all agree Billion coins are not worth for investors.

the more people talk about changing this crypto coin the more I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies.

Alphi, I've always enjoyed and respected your posts, but I have to disagree with you on this.  The market cap, the entire value of Karma as a crypto, will not change with a reverse split.  The only thing that changes is its current exchange ratio of KARMA:BITCOIN.  Currently, because of the massive number of outstanding Karma, we are stuck in the low single satoshi range.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, in and of itself.  The motivation of a reverse split is to make an individual Karma more valuable.  Of course we can still divide KARMA to the 8th decimal place, that would not change.  

Me and Kos are well established businessmen.  We do understand economics.  We do also understand what a reverse split is.  The value of a company is based on current and future revenues, capital equipment, cash on hand, employees, intellectual property, etc.  When a company does a reverse split it only limits the number of shares that are outstanding.  The value of the company does not change.  A reverse split is often used to avoid being delisted from stock exchanges.  Once a company is delisted they are forced into the OTC (Over the Counter) market.  This delisting diminishes visibility and respect.  The litoshi paring, a Doge paring, is the OTC market of the crypto world.  Again, there is nothing wrong with it, other than visibility.  For Karma to be better respected and appreciated in a broader market, I feel we need to decrease the total number of outstanding Karma.  Again, this does NOTHING to lower the value Karma as a whole.

The market has spoken and Karma is a continual top 30-40 market cap crypto, even touching the top 20 recently. This will not change if we reduce the number of outstanding Karma.  We have all of our ducks in a row, we just do not want to turn away investment because of the single satoshi levels.  Personally I am in favor of the 1:10.   We would be in the 30 - 40 Satoshi range,.  I think everyone still likes holding Millions in their wallet and with a 1:10 we wouldn't take this away.   Now doing a 1:100 is also something I would consider if others did as well.  

We need to keep KARMA visible and a viable investment vehicle until our algo changes are made and projects get noticed.  

[kosmost]

we have consulted with some great devs in the cryptoworld and they all agree Billion coins are not worth for investors.

software developers are not investors nor are they economists. they should not be consulted for investment advice.

the more people talk about changing this crypto coin the more I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies.

Karma is a payment system and a currency, it is not a company and it is not a security.

crypto currency has value because of its utility and because it is to some degree finite.


the biggest selling point of BTC was that there could only ever be 21 million coins. this figure will never change and it is what gives BTC its value and scarcity.

there will only ever be 92 billion (or so) Karma coins... people accepted this fact when they bought into this experiment.

if you change that number, (no matter how you do it), then you send two very strong messages to the market.

Firstly you tell all holders of the coin that their investment is not secure. If you thought you had 100 Karma one day then the next day you could have 1... the day after that you could have 100,000...  all at the whim of a few very vocal self serving investors. (if a coin can be reverse split.. then absolutely nothing stops it from being split again in the future)

Secondly you tell future investors AND users of the currency that the coin is not stable.. if I open up my Karma fruit store on the side of the road selling all kinds of fruit... lets say apples for 50,000 Karma each, oranges for 20,000 karma some day in the future I will have change all of my prices, not only that but when I collect sales tax and then go to pay my quarterly tax obligations I am in a complete mess because someone has decided that half way though the financial year they would chop off a few zeros from every karma that I collected.. so now I have to reconcile two completely different sets of accounting numbers.


There is a reason that currencies are not split and reverse split (ie taking zeroes off and adding zeroes to the end).. and that is because it completely messes up the entire economy from the little grandma on the side of the road selling fruit to the large corporation trying to collect and pay its taxes).

Maybe in countries like Zimbabwe this happens but do you really want Karma to become the zimbabwe dollar of the crypto world?


Yes you can do it with shares on the NYSE no problem this is because shares are not, nor are they intended to be, used as a currency for day to day transactions.

And yes it can be argued that not many people are using Karm at the moment so it doesn't affect many people.. but that is beside the point..a dangerous precedent is being set here. I for one would never have invested in BTC if the developers could just change the numbers whenever it suited them.

If Karma splits then so will I... I'm just about done with people constantly arguing about how to manipulate the price.

This is not what Karma was designed for, this is not the ethos of Karma. If people do not like the idea of a currency which is supposed to used for altruism and education instead of making people rich.. then they should leave rather than try to take over the coin... because a coin that does not stick to its original selling point is pointless.

There are changes with currencies (such as the French Franc), and sometimes splits. It could mean any number of things. However, I would argue the Karma is not a currency until it is used as a currency. Most cryptocurrencies fall under a "speculative tokens" banner, and are traded as such. In order to remove ourselves from some of the affects of our BTC spread being in the double-digits we simply use the tools we have at hand to our advantage. Few may want to buy Karma when the bid/ask is so wide. So, we have some sellers driving the price down.

Ordinarily, I would not care about price. But in this instance price matters to me because it is not attractive to be traded for BTC. And we need BTC in order to grow right now (as in this month).

Karma is not a company. We don't treat is like such, either. (Anyone is welcome to share their opinion on the thread or vote, not just LLC members, of course)

Neither are we a payment system until we are used like one. More than being a "speculative token" that can be traded, we have plans to be used as a mass-market digital currency for microtransactions and regular transactions alike.

But before we get there we need to clean house a bit, get organized, and make some changes in order to secure our future. Karma is not a company, but it did not rise 2,000+ percent just by being Karma. It did this because there are people behind it who are making careful considerations about its future. (Careful and considerate enough to pay for an economist to consult on Karma out of our own pocket, I might add.)

All that we do is for the health of the Karma economy. To say, "I realise that some of the people behind karmashares really do not understand economics or crypto currencies" does not make it true. Further, you are missing that we are all behind Karma. Karma is great because of the work, dedication, opinions, suggestions, etc., of each of us right here. (I'm assuming you meant Karma, not Karmashares.)

[kosmost]

Right now we focus on price, mining, and "what ifs"

In order to become a global digital currency we need to get Karma out of the hands of speculators and into the hands of consumers. Making bold, calculated moves (after careful consideration) is the only way that Karma can be in the top 10.

Consumers don't care about mining any more than they care about Microsoft engineers. They just want Karma to be easy to use and to do something they could not do before (or at least do it in a more attractive way, somehow).

Neither do consumers care about the price of Microsoft equities when they use the software.

For those who claim that we don't understand economics, we have 1 economist consulting on Karma + a team member with an  economics background. I continue to talk about everyday people and adding value (as an investor IRL and a former PR guy, among other things).

(If you recall, we said that we would look for an economist when we were talking about Scrypt changes. And so we did.)

Yes, some people complain that there are no technical specifications splashed on the main page of Karmacoin.me. What kind of coin is this? (Neither does Bitcoin or Dogecoin. If you're a coin geek and can't follow the links and don't know where to look then maybe you should take up baking cookies in your spare time, instead.)

We will not become #1 or #2 by focusing on the things we have focused on. We will only get there by focusing on the needs of everyday people. The time for that is now, not 2 or 5 years from now. If we don't do it then some other coin surely will. "Karma" is perfectly suited for the mass market.

We will not get there being traded by speculators and worried about exchanges. A reverse split helps to shift the Karma conversation to real value.

There are only a small handful of us in the community that are truly interested in what Karma's future is. The rest of us are just out to make some profits.

We will continue to be pioneers in the field and watch as other coins copy our methods and strategy. If this ride frightens you, there are plenty of other coins out there. But very, very few will be "safe" investments.

We've only just begun. We can either waste time talking about price, or spend more time talking about value. A "reverse split" is about value, not price.

[mouseman]

Please elaborate if you have a bit of time. A few thoughts would be helpful so we understand along what lines you are thinking a bit better.

We will not get there being traded by speculators and worried about exchanges. A reverse split helps to shift the Karma conversation to real value.

There are only a small handful of us in the community that are truly interested in what Karma's future is. The rest of us are just out to make some profits.

We will continue to be pioneers in the field and watch as other coins copy our methods and strategy. If this ride frightens you, there are plenty of other coins out there. But very, very few will be "safe" investments.

We've only just begun. We can either waste time talking about price, or spend more time talking about value. A "reverse split" is about value, not price.

[Chargin]

Hi! We are the Hitbtc team. Hitbtc is the most advanced exchange. Now everyone can vote for their favorite currency to be added to Hitbtc. You can start voting here: https://hitbtc.com/vote

Among the latest currencies taking part in our vote is Karmacoin. So we invite all of you to take part in voting to add KARM to Hitbtc.
Votes from registered users will be multiplied x10!

If this isn't an invitation I don't know what is. This hasn't only been posted here so lets get cracking.

I encourage everyone to sign up to the site, vote and then vote every day. Approximately every 24 hours I'll post an update here on our progress and remind people to vote.

We don't need the most votes, we just need to show our potential. It is possible with two market makers (https://hitbtc.com/mm), perhaps coupled with a decent number of votes, Karma will be listed on hitbtc. Even if we aren't listed in the next 3 months, your votes over the next 3 months will help us get there in 3 months instead of 4, 5 or 6 months.

Day 8:
Rank 1: NFD Coin 14123 (24 hr gain +86) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 2: GlobalBoost 13007 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 3: BlackCoin 10614 (24 hr gain +24) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 4: Latium 8340 (24 hr gain +394) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 5: Isracoin 7729 (24 hr gain +857) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 6: Mintcoin 3575 (24 hr gain +65) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 7: VirtaCoin 2604 (24 hr gain +161) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 8: RescueCoin 1731 (24 hr gain +1731) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 9: SiameseCoin 1690 (24 hr gain +463) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 10: Bytecoin 1625 (24 hr gain +36) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 11: Vertcoin 1375 (24 hr gain +7) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 12: NEMcoin 1050 (24 hr gain +33) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 13: duckNote 876 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 14: Darkcoin 856 (24 hr gain +7) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 15: Fantomcoin 555 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 16: biebercoin 524 (24 hr gain +0) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 17: KarmaCoin 522 (24 hr gain +27) (last 7 days gain +243) (gain since day 0 +360))
Rank 18: Nascoin 518 (24 hr gain +0) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 19: Primecoin 478 (24 hr gain +1) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 20: Web 2.0 Coin 418 (24 hr gain +4) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))

Sign up to https://hitbtc.com/vote then vote. It just just an email address, password and confirmation link in your email. Make sure you sign in so your vote is worth 10 times as much.

To get 1000 points it only takes 100 people voting for 10 points. To get 2000 points it only takes those same 100 people voting an additional 10 times while signed out. Lets get started.

TBA means to be advised, I'll introduce this when I have time to set up a system to automate it.
1 day is not 24 hours, it is 1 posting, I'm aiming to post once every 24 hours but sometimes I miss it due to other commitments.

Week 1 results summary:
Karma moved from rank 26 to 17, moving up a total of 9 places.
Karma increased its votes from just 162 to 495, an increase of 333, or we now have 305% of the votes we started with. For future reference, this was all while Karma prices were declining by at least half their value at the start of the weak.

Day 6 results summary:
Karma dropped 1 place today to rank 18 due to the introduction of a new contender.
We are catching up to a lot of cryptocurrencies, if we get a good voter turnout for day 7 we might be able to move up 3 or even 4 places in 1 day.

Day 7 results summary:
Karma moved up 1 place today to rank 17, which is good, however voting turnout was less than usual for Karma.
If we get some good votes tomorrow I wouldn't be surprised if we move up 2 places.

Day 8 results summary:
Karma held its place today at rank 17, we are just 2 votes away from overtaking biebercoin.

Monero is now available on bitbtc with just 1135 votes. This is a market maker addition. I strongly encourage active traders to review this https://hitbtc.com/mm and contact the hitbtc team. Obviously it would be impossible to keep Karma within such a tight range, however larger spreads may be negotiable.

It would appear as if you can only vote once while logged in. You can vote as a guest as many times as you want every 24 hours.

Please keep it up, vote again as a new user or a guest today.

Chargin.

[Chargin]

We've only just begun. We can either waste time talking about price, or spend more time talking about value. A "reverse split" is about value, not price.

Indeed.

[kosmost]

Karma will soon have 6,000,000,000,000,000,000 coins

http://redd.it/2ahnt1

(not really.. but read it anyway)

[pugwilfy]

Hi! We are the Hitbtc team. Hitbtc is the most advanced exchange. Now everyone can vote for their favorite currency to be added to Hitbtc. You can start voting here: https://hitbtc.com/vote

Among the latest currencies taking part in our vote is Karmacoin. So we invite all of you to take part in voting to add KARM to Hitbtc.
Votes from registered users will be multiplied x10!

If this isn't an invitation I don't know what is. This hasn't only been posted here so lets get cracking.

I encourage everyone to sign up to the site, vote and then vote every day. Approximately every 24 hours I'll post an update here on our progress and remind people to vote.

We don't need the most votes, we just need to show our potential. It is possible with two market makers (https://hitbtc.com/mm), perhaps coupled with a decent number of votes, Karma will be listed on hitbtc. Even if we aren't listed in the next 3 months, your votes over the next 3 months will help us get there in 3 months instead of 4, 5 or 6 months.

Day 8:
Rank 1: NFD Coin 14123 (24 hr gain +86) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 2: GlobalBoost 13007 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 3: BlackCoin 10614 (24 hr gain +24) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 4: Latium 8340 (24 hr gain +394) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 5: Isracoin 7729 (24 hr gain +857) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 6: Mintcoin 3575 (24 hr gain +65) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 7: VirtaCoin 2604 (24 hr gain +161) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 8: RescueCoin 1731 (24 hr gain +1731) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 9: SiameseCoin 1690 (24 hr gain +463) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 10: Bytecoin 1625 (24 hr gain +36) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 11: Vertcoin 1375 (24 hr gain +7) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 12: NEMcoin 1050 (24 hr gain +33) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 13: duckNote 876 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 14: Darkcoin 856 (24 hr gain +7) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 15: Fantomcoin 555 (24 hr gain +2) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 16: biebercoin 524 (24 hr gain +0) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 17: KarmaCoin 522 (24 hr gain +27) (last 7 days gain +243) (gain since day 0 +360))
Rank 18: Nascoin 518 (24 hr gain +0) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 19: Primecoin 478 (24 hr gain +1) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))
Rank 20: Web 2.0 Coin 418 (24 hr gain +4) (last 7 days gain +TBA) (gain since day 0 +TBA))

Sign up to https://hitbtc.com/vote then vote. It just just an email address, password and confirmation link in your email. Make sure you sign in so your vote is worth 10 times as much.

To get 1000 points it only takes 100 people voting for 10 points. To get 2000 points it only takes those same 100 people voting an additional 10 times while signed out. Lets get started.

TBA means to be advised, I'll introduce this when I have time to set up a system to automate it.
1 day is not 24 hours, it is 1 posting, I'm aiming to post once every 24 hours but sometimes I miss it due to other commitments.

Week 1 results summary:
Karma moved from rank 26 to 17, moving up a total of 9 places.
Karma increased its votes from just 162 to 495, an increase of 333, or we now have 305% of the votes we started with. For future reference, this was all while Karma prices were declining by at least half their value at the start of the weak.

Day 6 results summary:
Karma dropped 1 place today to rank 18 due to the introduction of a new contender.
We are catching up to a lot of cryptocurrencies, if we get a good voter turnout for day 7 we might be able to move up 3 or even 4 places in 1 day.

Day 7 results summary:
Karma moved up 1 place today to rank 17, which is good, however voting turnout was less than usual for Karma.
If we get some good votes tomorrow I wouldn't be surprised if we move up 2 places.

Day 8 results summary:
Karma held its place today at rank 17, we are just 2 votes away from overtaking biebercoin.

Monero is now available on bitbtc with just 1135 votes. This is a market maker addition. I strongly encourage active traders to review this https://hitbtc.com/mm and contact the hitbtc team. Obviously it would be impossible to keep Karma within such a tight range, however larger spreads may be negotiable.

It would appear as if you can only vote once while logged in. You can vote as a guest as many times as you want every 24 hours.

Please keep it up, vote again as a new user or a guest today.

Chargin.

Just to clarify that 10 votes for being logged in is a one time thing and you will only be allowed to vote again if you log out, I've been pressing vote while logged in and didn't realise it wasn't going through

[Chargin]

Just to clarify that 10 votes for being logged in is a one time thing and you will only be allowed to vote again if you log out, I've been pressing vote while logged in and didn't realise it wasn't going through

That's correct. We would be moving up a lot faster if you could vote more than once while logged in.

[Khaoimon]

My low opinion on a reverse split is simple(and a please don't): 90bil is not a lot if you consider world wide usage.  Long term if even 10% of the population used it, with an even split that's 90 coins each (maybe double, I haven't looked up the world pop in a while--probably closer to 6bil than 10bil).  

Without that, it's simply psychology.  If you reduce the number to 10%, say 9bil, and the price goes from 1 sat to 10 sat you think "oh, this makes the market better," but if trading at 1sat worth of ltc or 10 sat, it is still the same thing.  Imo, psychologically, people getting into the idea behind karma will like the idea of giving to people.  Giving someone .001 is a joke to the average person and they wont bother.  Giving 10, 100, 1000, etc seems like it is something regardless of if the value of all of those is the same.  I think part of the pain for btc to move forward is its high value.  No one, not really understanding bitcoin, wants to spend $200 on .3 of something or gift their friend .001.  If they were buying 30, it seems like something and when the price moves they can interpret it better.  

In the end its the same thing, different numbers, and changing it just to stay on the satoshi wagon is a waste imo.  I personally think the strength is in the amount, long term specially.  I think the feeling and psychology behind that is a strong strong point for adoption.  The other side is people selling it don't want to sell 1mil for .x btc, selling smaller amounts feels less like a waste to them.  But its the same thing either way.  Raising the individual value of karma, imo, goes against the idea of people using it for its purpose and is just traders wanting their way and people excited about it wanting to see it worth something.

A good example is the tipping app.  People toss around 1k-50k of a coin and its like 'wow, look what they gave out'  If they were tossing out 1 and 2, its just meh--I might not know anything about either coin, but I notice to big numbers and don't think twice about the small.  That is personally why I always bought into the size of karma. When I see something great I want to say, "here is 50k for awesomeness," not "here, take my meager .5"--even if they equal the same thing.  With the proposed ratios that would be an extreme example but its the same idea.  If you are interesting in this coin and believe in its long term, wide, adoption I think changing the amount is a temporary bandage and a waste of potential--and also quite risky if the market doesn't move to meet the new size.

[Chargin]

Karma will soon have 6,000,000,000,000,000,000 coins

http://redd.it/2ahnt1

Most people can't comprehend such big numbers, people get stuck in the billions if not before. Most people can understand what 100 million is. 1 Bitcoin is 100 million Satoshi. That is relatively simple.

Don't start saying there are 6 quintillion Karma, it will freak people out.

Having a currency to 8 decimal places makes sense, you can always add more decimals if needed.

Don't try to change the definition of Karma from 1 unit of Karma to 0.00000001.

The only reason to change Karma is because Karma is being traded in the world's most highly denominated currency, the Bitcoin and even at 8 Decimal places Karma is still valued too low to be traded in it in a meaningful way.

The total number of Karma is fine, it is the price of Karma compared to Bitcoin that is the problem. Karma will be traded in Bitcoin, we can't ignore it, we need to make it so we can be traded in Bitcoin in a more granular way, which I believe is required.

All we need to do is create a new denomination of Karma. KKarma (K=1000). We then ask exchanges to remove listings of Karma and list Karma as KKarm.

1,000 Karma is 1 KiloKarma (KKarma).

To go the other way all you need to do is this:
1 Karma = 100 CentiKarma (CKarma)
1 Karma = 1,000,000 MicroKarma (MKarma), 10,000 MicroKarma is 1 CentiKarma
1 Karma = 1,000,000,000 NanoKarma (NKarma), 1,000 NanoKarma is 1 MicroKarma

"I bought 1,000 KiloKarma on an exchange for 1.03 Bitcoin, that's 1,000,000 Karma"

"I bought an apple for 1 Karma and 14 CentiKarma". This will be shortened to "I bought an apple for 1 Karma and 14 Cents"

"I bought a bead for 10 MicroKarma, I could have bought 1,000 for a CentiKarma."

If you aren't sure where I'm getting these from, it's the metric system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix

I think we should try this before actually changing Karma. Mintpal is the largest Karma exchange and have worked with us previously. Karma will be traded mostly on whatever Bitcoin market does this with us. If Mintpal isn't willing to I'm sure we can find an exchange to and then make it the "Official" exchange for Karma.

Alternatively just ask for Karma to be traded in lots of 1,000.

If not I'm in favour of the 1:100 split.

Chargin.

[ShawnLeary]

Karma will soon have 6,000,000,000,000,000,000 coins

http://redd.it/2ahnt1

This is perfectly stated by Kos, we are not limiting the value of Karma by shifting a decimal place once of twice or three times.  It will just have an effect on how it's paired with bitcoin. 

[bondi]

Without that, it's simply psychology.  If you reduce the number to 10%, say 9bil, and the price goes from 1 sat to 10 sat you think "oh, this makes the market better," but if trading at 1sat worth of ltc or 10 sat, it is still the same thing.  Imo, psychologically, people getting into the idea behind karma will like the idea of giving to people.  Giving someone .001 is a joke to the average person and they wont bother.  Giving 10, 100, 1000, etc seems like it is something regardless of if the value of all of those is the same.  I think part of the pain for btc to move forward is its high value.  No one, not really understanding bitcoin, wants to spend $200 on .3 of something or gift their friend .001.  If they were buying 30, it seems like something and when the price moves they can interpret it better.  

In the end its the same thing, different numbers, and changing it just to stay on the satoshi wagon is a waste imo.  I personally think the strength is in the amount, long term specially.  I think the feeling and psychology behind that is a strong strong point for adoption.  The other side is people selling it don't want to sell 1mil for .x btc, selling smaller amounts feels less like a waste to them.  But its the same thing either way.  Raising the individual value of karma, imo, goes against the idea of people using it for its purpose and is just traders wanting their way and people excited about it wanting to see it worth something.

A good example is the tipping app.  People toss around 1k-50k of a coin and its like 'wow, look what they gave out'  If they were tossing out 1 and 2, its just meh--I might not know anything about either coin, but I notice to big numbers and don't think twice about the small.  That is personally why I always bought into the size of karma. When I see something great I want to say, "here is 50k for awesomeness," not "here, take my meager .5"--even if they equal the same thing.  With the proposed ratios that would be an extreme example but its the same idea.  If you are interesting in this coin and believe in its long term, wide, adoption I think changing the amount is a temporary bandage and a waste of potential--and also quite risky if the market doesn't move to meet the new size.

I agree with this post.
I think psychology is a very important aspect when dealing with this.

Another thing that worries me is the growth potential / reward / expectations after the reverse split.
I keep reading about attracting investors so what can we expect from an investor point of view?
One thing is for certain, the investor will want his capital back plus some.
This means if the investors don't see a high growth potential, they will simply not invest.
So if we take for instance 1:1000 split wouldn't this hurt us more because then people would have to buy more to reach their initial growth expectation? I don't think people will start doing it...
Just my 2 karma cents....