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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 564663 times)
bitwho
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August 08, 2014, 05:31:10 AM
 #4421

an other great example is Socoban. He took it upon himself to create an Insight-api explorer.

If more and more people help out, we could get a lot of things done. Especially things that remove some pressure on our coders so they could focus on our IPOCOs.


Here is one of our site : http://karmashare.me

This is one of my favorite one. Unfortunately we have no man power to help us improve it at the moment. We have had few people step up and then quietly disappear without helping at all.

A current member now "spitfire" has offered to take a look but not sure if he will put in the time.

I have asked our community for over two months if any one is willing to help improve this site.

Help with up keep , improve it and most importantly help stop fake accounts!

2 people have offered. 1 is no where to find. the other just recently said "maybe"

zero additional work has been put into it.

:/
 

this is the problem with the overall altcoin market.. when people are losing money they are less motivated to help out.
but in order for a coin to grow and for prices to rise it needs ongoing development work.

so its catch 22.

the only thing I would add is that people should consider working on any alt coin project not for the money but for the experience.
almost all the skills you learn developing a crypto coin technologies are transferable to any other crypto coin. So the real winners are those people who stick it out and keep learning/developing because they are at the forefront of an explosive new industry.

remember that knowledge is power.. and it is something that you cannot lose even if you lose your investments.


Yes. Members should fight to be given this golder opportunity that karma is offering. the recognition for the "official karma services"

Look at where Moolah is now with the help of dogecoin. They started as tipbot. made a name. Created a service and the community supported.

Yes, your work will have to be free. But you will be recognized by the whole community and build a name for yourself. If later on in the near future, you venture off to a personal project. Guess what. Karma's got your back! all the karma community will come to support.

Will you need visitors/ consumers? votes? additional help? Karma will support you because you supported them first

Here is how that example play out:
Most recognized name in Karma community now is Kosmost. if he were to make a post tomorrow. Asking us to support his side project. Only $1 per donation. How many member here will send him donations? Tons of us!!

Why ? Because he has been putting his time and personal resources to help us push up. He could have been just like most of karma silent investors in our community right now. The one that just buy Karma and sit tight and wait for the moon.

But he didn't. He started volunteering to help here and there. Until he saw that Karma needed more than that. So he started getting involved, a lot. Up to the point that we all saw we should move out of his way and not hold him back.

Have we paid him? Has anyone actually tipped him personally?  I know we all have donated him coins so he could give to people/donations. Shawn Leary donated 200 mill to him for giveaway or a donation cause.. can't remember correctly!

But i can't recall a time when some one has sent him any tips or Bits as a sign of appreciation.

Either way.. he is here day after day. Helping Karma grow bigger. We all know this. He has indented his name into the coin success so far!  

So , yes! We all would be lining up to support his side projects. I know would. So would the 15 other member of the team.

 
Be the next member to step up and help us out. It will be worth it. Not only will you be helping improve the coin and hence increase the wealth of your investment. But you would build a fan base that you can venture out and have their support!

Don't miss this golden opportunity. You know we will succeed. You know Karmanians will be in millions strong in user base. Make a name for your self!

Go from being an intern of a $2mill cap company into a mufti-million dollar IPOCO's CEO !
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August 08, 2014, 06:55:24 AM
 #4422

Karma's transition to x11 has been incredibly successful. There is a surprisingly low number of people mining Karma on Scrpyt and most sites have updated. If you see any sites that haven't updated please let us know so we can send them a notification or reminder.

It probably isn't a good idea to quote links to the pool just in case. It is only 20 MH/s at the moment. I've messaged him today directly on this forum just to be safe.

Chargin.

Thanks for taking action on this.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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August 08, 2014, 07:04:15 AM
 #4423

an other great example is Socoban. He took it upon himself to create an Insight-api explorer.

If more and more people help out, we could get a lot of things done. Especially things that remove some pressure on our coders so they could focus on our IPOCOs.


Here is one of our site : http://karmashare.me

This is one of my favorite one. Unfortunately we have no man power to help us improve it at the moment. We have had few people step up and then quietly disappear without helping at all.

A current member now "spitfire" has offered to take a look but not sure if he will put in the time.

I have asked our community for over two months if any one is willing to help improve this site.

Help with up keep , improve it and most importantly help stop fake accounts!

2 people have offered. 1 is no where to find. the other just recently said "maybe"

zero additional work has been put into it.

:/
 

this is the problem with the overall altcoin market.. when people are losing money they are less motivated to help out.
but in order for a coin to grow and for prices to rise it needs ongoing development work.

so its catch 22.

the only thing I would add is that people should consider working on any alt coin project not for the money but for the experience.
almost all the skills you learn developing a crypto coin technologies are transferable to any other crypto coin. So the real winners are those people who stick it out and keep learning/developing because they are at the forefront of an explosive new industry.

remember that knowledge is power.. and it is something that you cannot lose even if you lose your investments.


Yes. Members should fight to be given this golder opportunity that karma is offering. the recognition for the "official karma services"

Look at where Moolah is now with the help of dogecoin. They started as tipbot. made a name. Created a service and the community supported.

Yes, your work will have to be free. But you will be recognized by the whole community and build a name for yourself. If later on in the near future, you venture off to a personal project. Guess what. Karma's got your back! all the karma community will come to support.

Will you need visitors/ consumers? votes? additional help? Karma will support you because you supported them first

Here is how that example play out:
Most recognized name in Karma community now is Kosmost. if he were to make a post tomorrow. Asking us to support his side project. Only $1 per donation. How many member here will send him donations? Tons of us!!

Why ? Because he has been putting his time and personal resources to help us push up. He could have been just like most of karma silent investors in our community right now. The one that just buy Karma and sit tight and wait for the moon.

But he didn't. He started volunteering to help here and there. Until he saw that Karma needed more than that. So he started getting involved, a lot. Up to the point that we all saw we should move out of his way and not hold him back.

Have we paid him? Has anyone actually tipped him personally?  I know we all have donated him coins so he could give to people/donations. Shawn Leary donated 200 mill to him for giveaway or a donation cause.. can't remember correctly!

But i can't recall a time when some one has sent him any tips or Bits as a sign of appreciation.

Either way.. he is here day after day. Helping Karma grow bigger. We all know this. He has indented his name into the coin success so far!  

So , yes! We all would be lining up to support his side projects. I know would. So would the 15 other member of the team.

 
Be the next member to step up and help us out. It will be worth it. Not only will you be helping improve the coin and hence increase the wealth of your investment. But you would build a fan base that you can venture out and have their support!

Don't miss this golden opportunity. You know we will succeed. You know Karmanians will be in millions strong in user base. Make a name for your self!

Go from being an intern of a $2mill cap company into a mufti-million dollar IPOCO's CEO !


No tips or donations needed, but thanks Smiley

This is the most important thing in the history of Karma: http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2cg8kg/we_need_help_with_some_research_and_information/

^now there is something Karma needs desperately. It affects everything we are doing right now. AG Crypto has taken responsibility for the market research, and we all need your help.

That is what everyone can help with. Not sure about how market research is conducted? (I've heard this more than a few times) Go to Lill (or even Google) and search for "how to conduct market reseearch" or "the importance of market research"

(Note: It is the utmost important than we approach this with an open mind. Not "I think our customers are...." but considering who our future users might be. The users we have today will most likely not be the kinds of users we have when we're successful.)

We have products/services (Karma, Lill, sidechain, etc) but do not consider market research to be our #1 priority? We should be ashamed lol. We don't need to do thngs the way other coins are doing things. We need to be successful Smiley

There is already research conducted on Bitcoin, M-PESA, and digital currencies. Cryptocurrencies are older than the internet itself (I think). Let's learn from what has already been done and apply that, rationally, to where Karma is headed in future.

Thanks for your help, and Go Karma!

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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August 08, 2014, 08:42:36 AM
 #4424

this what they are currently doing at mintpal if anyone is interested..

Quote
MintPal will now be the go-to place for divergent altcoin markets with coin based pairings. To start, we will be using BTC as a pairing coin. We will be culling a number of “dead” coins currently on the exchange, and will actively add and remove coins to the platform as required. We are unsure as of yet, as to whether or not we will reintroduce voting to the platform. One thing we are sure of though, is that we will be taking active measures to ensure that “scammy” premine coins will not be introduced to the platform, and will instead be focusing on proven or interesting new markets.

http://blog.moolah.io/2014/07/28/were-taking-over-mintpal-heres-what-you-need-to-know/

they are in the process of chopping a whole bunch of coins.
I believe this, along with the mintpal hack, has spooked the market and it is why volume and prices are down currently.

people do not know which coins will be chopped next so they are reluctant to buy.

I expect that the coins which survive the cull will end up benefiting from this process after it has been completed.

so keep calm and don't panic.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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August 08, 2014, 09:02:39 AM
 #4425

this what they are currently doing at mintpal if anyone is interested..

Quote
MintPal will now be the go-to place for divergent altcoin markets with coin based pairings. To start, we will be using BTC as a pairing coin. We will be culling a number of “dead” coins currently on the exchange, and will actively add and remove coins to the platform as required. We are unsure as of yet, as to whether or not we will reintroduce voting to the platform. One thing we are sure of though, is that we will be taking active measures to ensure that “scammy” premine coins will not be introduced to the platform, and will instead be focusing on proven or interesting new markets.

http://blog.moolah.io/2014/07/28/were-taking-over-mintpal-heres-what-you-need-to-know/

they are in the process of chopping a whole bunch of coins.
I believe this, along with the mintpal hack, has spooked the market and it is why volume and prices are down currently.

people do not know which coins will be chopped next so they are reluctant to buy.

I expect that the coins which survive the cull will end up benefiting from this process after it has been completed.

so keep calm and don't panic.


Thanks for the heads up Alphi.

TIP ME ₭ARMA:  KJeEKJv1LXHM8cYeRgQG3q87BFA4W3sTGg  FOR KARMA TRANSLATION BUDGET SEND TO: KHvkhA7RTFnG8N5RWPB48gs2y8K1od6xF4
OFF. ₭ARMA FB PAGE: https://www.facebook.com/karmacoin.me. http://lill.com
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August 08, 2014, 02:07:01 PM
 #4426

would anyone be so kind to reply to my problem over on this thread regarding the p2pool problem i am having

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=726571
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August 08, 2014, 02:10:23 PM
 #4427

So looking around i found this paper
On The Longest Chain Rule and Programmed Self-Destruction of Crypto Currencies
http://arxiv.org/abs/1405.0534
Talks about network vulnerabilities. You just need to read the abstract to catch the gist of it.
I don't know if some of you guys have heard about distributed oracles to secure the network. Basically, it adds another layer of protection against attacks. It works similar to this: You have your private key, your public key, but to perform a transaction, your output must be approved by 51% of the oracles. This can be considered "necessary" if we look to the paper. It says "Satoshi did not implement a timestamp for bitcoin transactions and the bitcoin software does not attempt to monitor double spending events".
I may or not be right, but it seems quite important to me. If someone were to move a bunch of dollars using any crypto network, it should have a similar structure associated to provide trust. Well, more trust.
So this is what i've been talking about, Orisi, distributed oracles.
https://github.com/orisi/orisi


Nooooow another thing that was itching my mind....
About the sidechain ^^
We can extract new ideas from here!
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August 08, 2014, 02:42:21 PM
 #4428

What happened to the block explorer?

https://whattomine.com - Check what to mine Smiley
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August 08, 2014, 02:52:22 PM
 #4429

When I can see the side chain.. I wait it but there is no notification about this challenge movement

I really want to see more detail information about KarmaX.

There are many people to see this information Huh

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August 08, 2014, 05:01:59 PM
 #4430

would anyone be so kind to reply to my problem over on this thread regarding the p2pool problem i am having

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=726571

fix your intensity  Grin
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August 08, 2014, 05:02:56 PM
 #4431

What happened to the block explorer?

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/2ctsy7/old_karma_block_explorer_is_down_a_new_one_is_in/
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August 08, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
 #4432

Ok guys. As an economist, I would like to point out some things here.
What we have here is a very competitive market place. Many altocoins appear daily.
Low barrier to entry witch means that  it is easy for new players to show up.
Furthermore, our market position is weak. We are not Litecoin, or even Dogecoin.
This reduces our possibilities when acting on the market.
Proposal that Kosmost made is a sound one. Still, there are some problems with it. What we are doing here is rebranding the product.
This means we are operating with the same thing, but changing the quantities. In the end it is the same coin. Now, this might move the price, but most likely, users will realize that there is no change, and the price will stay the same. Since our product is inferior on the market, price will actually decrease, like we see with other altcoins. The way to counter this is by innovating and creating new services. Making a change such as this one, without creating a new content will not make a substantial change. The only influence it will have is a psychological one, but in the end, the price will revert even if it goes up.
My suggestion is to launch this change when we publish a whitepaper and present the public with the new ideas we are planning to implement as a community. Then it will have more meaning.

This is an interesting clip from tv show The Wire. It approaches this problem. What happens in the end is still a decline in the demand of the product, since users understand that it is actually the same old product.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDBq-OU1rHo&t=1m35s



To elaborate on the above re exchanges trading Karma against BTC in sets of 1000.

Exchanges: Price Karma in lots of 1,000 in Bitcoin


What does this mean?

Instead of Karma being put on the market as a single Karma it could be sold in sets of 1,000. This still means you can sell units of 0.00001 Karma, just not 0.00000001 Karma.

This is very distinct from decreasing the number of Karma via a hard fork although it has the same advantages and could be done around the same time without actually having to change the amount of Karma in existence.

The 0.00001 Karma (being the minimum tradable fraction) of Karma under the proposed change is worth approximately $0.0000000015USD at today’s market rates.

When I last checked there was an actual minimum limit on Mintpal for Karma sales of around 10,000 Karma however this may be based on price and could be there as a transaction spam / exchange fee avoidance countermeasure.

Basically instead of exchanges listing Karma for sale as follows:
Amount: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Price per Karm: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Total: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)

It would be:
Amount: 0.00000 (limit 5 decimal places)
Price per 1,000 Karma: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Total: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)

Under sell orders/buy orders this would change from:
Price (BTC) / Karm / BTC
To:
Price per 1,000 Karma (BTC) / Karma / BTC

The amount of Karma displayed in accounts should be kept the same.

Why the change?

As at the time of writing this 1 Karma is selling for 0.00000002 to 0.00000003 Bitcoins. The smallest fraction of a Bitcoin is called a Satoshi. Karma is trading at 2 to 3 Satoshi. This means theoretically, on the spread, you can either sell your Karma then rebuy 50% more or you can buy Karma and then sell it for 50% more or similar. This will occur no matter the price of Karma, just as the price goes up the margins will get slimmer as the market becomes more granular, ie the difference between prices is less. Even at 40 to 41 Satoshi there is a margin of 2.5%, roughly 10 times more than the exchanges themselves take.

This isn’t healthy for the market. The only way these orders can work is if the price is stable enough for you to both complete your sell order and your rebuy order.

This encourages people to attempt to lock in Karma between a certain price range and also encourages the creation of wall. This is because some people may be putting up a sale expecting that they can then rebuy at a fraction of the price, which may even be on alternate market, for example a Litecoin market.

When price movement is hampered there is less volume in the markets and less interest in Karma.

Benefits of change, buyers/sellers:
Can buy or sell higher at market rates without having to either “wait in line” or sell at far less than it would cost to buy or vice versa.

Benefits of change for exchanges:
More market activity caused by the change means more turn over and more exchange fees.

As one of the first adopters, your exchange will both have Karma for sale at cheaper rates and people will be able to sell Karma for more. This will increase volume on your market for people that want to trade at market rates and not have to wait “in line” for their trade to be executed a decent price.

Implementing the change may be subsidised by the Karma community.

Limitations to current countermeasures to the problem:
Under the current system alternate markets (primarily Litecoin) are being used to trade Karma at a more granular rate while the price is being locked in on the Bitcoin market.

However, this is considered by many to be an inconvenience and still only offers limited protection against sell and buy walls that form on the Bitcoin market.

Suggested implementation for exchanges:
1. Make the relevant notices to customers;
2. Suspend trading on the Karma/BTC market;
3. Back up data;
4. Make the relevant changes to the displays on the market order page;
5. Cancel all orders on the market;
6. Make changes to the order database if required; and
7. Put the buy/sell orders back onto the market to 5 decimal places instead of 8. This should result in a very small decrease to buy/sell orders on the market.

Other solutions:
Mintpal is the only major exchange for Karma that would have trouble implementing this because they have already opened the Bitcoin/Karma market. New exchanges (or exchanges without Karma markets) could implement this system without having to worry about current orders.


What are your thoughts on exchange pricing per 100 Karma?

I believe this would make each block currently worth about USD 0.001, which would give us some room for growth in price (with a price target of anywhere between 1 cent to 10 cents per Karma block in the next year or so).

This would, of course, in no way impact users wallets but may make it easier for users to purchase (from a psychological perspective) similar to how pre-paid phone cards or debit cards are re-charged in blocks of units (instead of individual units), You can't re-charge your phone with 1 minute worth of time but perhaps you could with 100 minutes' worth.

When you go to the grocery store to buy meat or fish, pricing may be per 100 grams. The grocery store owner knows that people will buy more when they think of buying multiples or fractions of 100 grams instead of multiples of 1 gram.

I think right now we are just doing what every other coin is doing and not really thinking of how we can be pioneers. Anything different is seen as a "trick". But how about the first grocery store that thought to price their perishables differently?

If change makes sense and has more upside than downside, then I say let's go for it. There will always be people who want to use their horses in an age of the "horseless carriage". But we are leaders, not followers.
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August 08, 2014, 07:08:43 PM
 #4433

Dear altcoingood,

I am sorry you felt attacked by me. I know, my words towards your alt coin explorer were not friendly. But the fact is, I was right. Your explorer does not allow searching. Your explorer requires too heavy hardware to be fully functional. It is not my problem, that you feel personally attacked. You insulted me, you behaved like a god, telling bullshit about how cool are you and how huge experience you have. Smart people does not need to tell how smart they are. Rich people does not have to tell others how rich they are.  Your reaction forced me to play with bitpay insight API, just to prove you are wrong.

So I installed and ported Bitpay insight API to work with KARMA. I was in a hurry, so there are some bugs, like real-time updates are not working properly. So it has synced and is not reading real-time data right now. I will fix it tomorrow, I have other duties right now.
For your note, it is running on 1 GB RAM linux server with 30 GB SSD drive on DigitalOcean droplet. Total costs $10/month. So dream your dream about 16GB RAM server. Here is the link: http://162.243.209.71:3000/

Kosmos&Karma team. I will finish it tomorrow. I need that server for other staff, so if you want this KARMA bitpay insight api, you will have to rent some cheap server, best would be DigitalOcen.com droplet for $10/month. I am not gonna to take care for hosting, I have too much duties and I would stop care about it in the future. And after today you know, such serious service has to be hosted by devs.

Thank you very much for your effort. It is appreciated!

Thank you for this, getting stats from your site as the main explorer is down.

https://whattomine.com - Check what to mine Smiley
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August 08, 2014, 08:37:54 PM
 #4434

Ok guys. As an economist, I would like to point out some things here.
What we have here is a very competitive market place. Many altocoins appear daily.
Low barrier to entry witch means that  it is easy for new players to show up.
Furthermore, our market position is weak. We are not Litecoin, or even Dogecoin.
This reduces our possibilities when acting on the market.
Proposal that Kosmost made is a sound one. Still, there are some problems with it. What we are doing here is rebranding the product.
This means we are operating with the same thing, but changing the quantities. In the end it is the same coin. Now, this might move the price, but most likely, users will realize that there is no change, and the price will stay the same. Since our product is inferior on the market, price will actually decrease, like we see with other altcoins. The way to counter this is by innovating and creating new services. Making a change such as this one, without creating a new content will not make a substantial change. The only influence it will have is a psychological one, but in the end, the price will revert even if it goes up.
My suggestion is to launch this change when we publish a whitepaper and present the public with the new ideas we are planning to implement as a community. Then it will have more meaning.

Totally agree with this.
Imo, Karma has a great potential to increase its value, so we don't have to worry about current price and liquidity.
Let market recognize the value of Karma (e.g. releasing the white paper, developing sidechain, etc.). Then the price will follow.
(I believe that Karma will overtake Doge in market cap. That means 40 satoshi per KARM)
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August 08, 2014, 08:52:09 PM
 #4435

Sent 500K your way socoban.

My small way of saying thank you for your Karma community contribution.
You're welcome to the team if you have the inclination Wink

Wow, I am rich now!!

Explorer is ready,it just need to changing BTC signs to KARM signs, this will take just few minutes. I was trying to port bitcorejs into Karmacore.js to make Coinpunk web wallet functional, and make it part of the explorer. I think, I did the port correctly, but problem is I did it on latest source code and than I found out, Coinpunk is using 1 year old bitcore-js library, which is not compatible. So as a result I decided not to finish coinpunkweb wallet now, since there is big pressure on public trusted explorer.Coinpunk it is not under active developement, so I did a research and found some alternative web wallets which I can port to KARM. Since there is a big demand on working explorer, I will install it on Server owned by Kosmost soon, so he can make it active on some Karma related domain.
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August 08, 2014, 09:00:50 PM
 #4436

Sent 500K your way socoban.

My small way of saying thank you for your Karma community contribution.
You're welcome to the team if you have the inclination Wink

Wow, I am rich now!!

Explorer is ready,it just need to changing BTC signs to KARM signs, this will take just few minutes. I was trying to port bitcorejs into Karmacore.js to make Coinpunk web wallet functional, and make it part of the explorer. I think, I did the port correctly, but problem is I did it on latest source code and than I found out, Coinpunk is using 1 year old bitcore-js library, which is not compatible. So as a result I decided not to finish coinpunkweb wallet now, since there is big pressure on public trusted explorer.Coinpunk it is not under active developement, so I did a research and found some alternative web wallets which I can port to KARM. Since there is a big demand on working explorer, I will install it on Server owned by Kosmost soon, so he can make it active on some Karma related domain.

Thank you.
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August 08, 2014, 09:07:27 PM
 #4437

Ok guys. As an economist, I would like to point out some things here.
What we have here is a very competitive market place. Many altocoins appear daily.
Low barrier to entry witch means that  it is easy for new players to show up.
Furthermore, our market position is weak. We are not Litecoin, or even Dogecoin.
This reduces our possibilities when acting on the market.
Proposal that Kosmost made is a sound one. Still, there are some problems with it. What we are doing here is rebranding the product.
This means we are operating with the same thing, but changing the quantities. In the end it is the same coin. Now, this might move the price, but most likely, users will realize that there is no change, and the price will stay the same. Since our product is inferior on the market, price will actually decrease, like we see with other altcoins. The way to counter this is by innovating and creating new services. Making a change such as this one, without creating a new content will not make a substantial change. The only influence it will have is a psychological one, but in the end, the price will revert even if it goes up.
My suggestion is to launch this change when we publish a whitepaper and present the public with the new ideas we are planning to implement as a community. Then it will have more meaning.

This is an interesting clip from tv show The Wire. It approaches this problem. What happens in the end is still a decline in the demand of the product, since users understand that it is actually the same old product.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDBq-OU1rHo&t=1m35s



To elaborate on the above re exchanges trading Karma against BTC in sets of 1000.

Exchanges: Price Karma in lots of 1,000 in Bitcoin


What does this mean?

Instead of Karma being put on the market as a single Karma it could be sold in sets of 1,000. This still means you can sell units of 0.00001 Karma, just not 0.00000001 Karma.

This is very distinct from decreasing the number of Karma via a hard fork although it has the same advantages and could be done around the same time without actually having to change the amount of Karma in existence.

The 0.00001 Karma (being the minimum tradable fraction) of Karma under the proposed change is worth approximately $0.0000000015USD at today’s market rates.

When I last checked there was an actual minimum limit on Mintpal for Karma sales of around 10,000 Karma however this may be based on price and could be there as a transaction spam / exchange fee avoidance countermeasure.

Basically instead of exchanges listing Karma for sale as follows:
Amount: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Price per Karm: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Total: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)

It would be:
Amount: 0.00000 (limit 5 decimal places)
Price per 1,000 Karma: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)
Total: 0.00000000 (limit 8 decimal places)

Under sell orders/buy orders this would change from:
Price (BTC) / Karm / BTC
To:
Price per 1,000 Karma (BTC) / Karma / BTC

The amount of Karma displayed in accounts should be kept the same.

Why the change?

As at the time of writing this 1 Karma is selling for 0.00000002 to 0.00000003 Bitcoins. The smallest fraction of a Bitcoin is called a Satoshi. Karma is trading at 2 to 3 Satoshi. This means theoretically, on the spread, you can either sell your Karma then rebuy 50% more or you can buy Karma and then sell it for 50% more or similar. This will occur no matter the price of Karma, just as the price goes up the margins will get slimmer as the market becomes more granular, ie the difference between prices is less. Even at 40 to 41 Satoshi there is a margin of 2.5%, roughly 10 times more than the exchanges themselves take.

This isn’t healthy for the market. The only way these orders can work is if the price is stable enough for you to both complete your sell order and your rebuy order.

This encourages people to attempt to lock in Karma between a certain price range and also encourages the creation of wall. This is because some people may be putting up a sale expecting that they can then rebuy at a fraction of the price, which may even be on alternate market, for example a Litecoin market.

When price movement is hampered there is less volume in the markets and less interest in Karma.

Benefits of change, buyers/sellers:
Can buy or sell higher at market rates without having to either “wait in line” or sell at far less than it would cost to buy or vice versa.

Benefits of change for exchanges:
More market activity caused by the change means more turn over and more exchange fees.

As one of the first adopters, your exchange will both have Karma for sale at cheaper rates and people will be able to sell Karma for more. This will increase volume on your market for people that want to trade at market rates and not have to wait “in line” for their trade to be executed a decent price.

Implementing the change may be subsidised by the Karma community.

Limitations to current countermeasures to the problem:
Under the current system alternate markets (primarily Litecoin) are being used to trade Karma at a more granular rate while the price is being locked in on the Bitcoin market.

However, this is considered by many to be an inconvenience and still only offers limited protection against sell and buy walls that form on the Bitcoin market.

Suggested implementation for exchanges:
1. Make the relevant notices to customers;
2. Suspend trading on the Karma/BTC market;
3. Back up data;
4. Make the relevant changes to the displays on the market order page;
5. Cancel all orders on the market;
6. Make changes to the order database if required; and
7. Put the buy/sell orders back onto the market to 5 decimal places instead of 8. This should result in a very small decrease to buy/sell orders on the market.

Other solutions:
Mintpal is the only major exchange for Karma that would have trouble implementing this because they have already opened the Bitcoin/Karma market. New exchanges (or exchanges without Karma markets) could implement this system without having to worry about current orders.


What are your thoughts on exchange pricing per 100 Karma?

I believe this would make each block currently worth about USD 0.001, which would give us some room for growth in price (with a price target of anywhere between 1 cent to 10 cents per Karma block in the next year or so).

This would, of course, in no way impact users wallets but may make it easier for users to purchase (from a psychological perspective) similar to how pre-paid phone cards or debit cards are re-charged in blocks of units (instead of individual units), You can't re-charge your phone with 1 minute worth of time but perhaps you could with 100 minutes' worth.

When you go to the grocery store to buy meat or fish, pricing may be per 100 grams. The grocery store owner knows that people will buy more when they think of buying multiples or fractions of 100 grams instead of multiples of 1 gram.

I think right now we are just doing what every other coin is doing and not really thinking of how we can be pioneers. Anything different is seen as a "trick". But how about the first grocery store that thought to price their perishables differently?

If change makes sense and has more upside than downside, then I say let's go for it. There will always be people who want to use their horses in an age of the "horseless carriage". But we are leaders, not followers.

Thanks for your perspective. The idea was proposed and detailed by Chargin. Like any idea (especially those that are detailed) we want to see if it has any legs.  You're right in that it's more of a psychological change and may eventually balance out. We don't have examples in cryptocurrency for this so it's good to speculate about it.

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August 08, 2014, 09:09:03 PM
 #4438

I ported the game to work on browsers.
Now you do not have an excuse for not trying it!!!


http://188.226.237.142/karmagame/

I'm considering making the browser version the main version, because we will be able to target much more users, and it would also be much easier to interface with the Karma wallets of the users to send the coins.

Plase donate KARM or BTC if you like the game, in order to support its development.

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August 08, 2014, 09:10:34 PM
 #4439

[snip]

Nooooow another thing that was itching my mind....
About the sidechain ^^
We can extract new ideas from here!

In the end, I think the cryptocurrency 'format' with the most user-friendly features (as opposed to the most technologically advanced) will win. We see this time and time again in different industries, and ours is probably no different.

We have only to realize that we should begin surveying actual potential users to find out what they want in a digital currency, starting with those who might need it most.

But yes, we will certainly borrow good and useful ideas from digital currencies and cryptocurrencies as well as innovate on our own.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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August 08, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
 #4440

I ported the game to work on browsers.
Now you do not have an excuse for not trying it!!!


http://188.226.237.142/karmagame/

I'm considering making the browser version the main version, because we will be able to target much more users, and it would also be much easier to interface with the Karma wallets of the users to send the coins.

Plase donate KARM or BTC if you like the game, in order to support its development.


good stuff.. Are the instructions also coming?

Thanks, ptman and learnminer!

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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