nakaone
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October 27, 2014, 01:39:17 PM |
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Are there any serious contenders for decentralized anonymous transactions besides the other Cryptonotes?
Not yet. Zerocash maybe in the future, but we will have to see how that is received once it exists. Also, a Cryptonote-like BTC side chain might exist someday. Agree. Apart from Zerocash, nothing. All others coins named "anonymous" are nothing more than a copy of Bitcoin with a mixer. You can use the mixer directly with Bitcoin : https://bitmixer.io/is it just us circlejerking? I can hardly understand why this is not more widely accepted. this is in my opinion the only really existing niche - all other things can probably be done with bitcoin in the future. also that sidechains can offer privacy is only half true - you still have to send them to the sidechain and also have to get them out of the chain.
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smooth
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October 27, 2014, 01:43:31 PM |
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All others coins named "anonymous" are nothing more than a copy of Bitcoin with a mixer. You can use the mixer directly with Bitcoin : https://bitmixer.io/Agree. also that sidechains can offer privacy is only half true - you still have to send them to the sidechain and also have to get them out of the chain.
This is true unless the side chain becomes very popular and has good security. In that case people can routinely use the sidechain without needing to go to/from Bitcoin.
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superresistant
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October 27, 2014, 01:45:08 PM |
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Are there any serious contenders for decentralized anonymous transactions besides the other Cryptonotes?
Not yet. Zerocash maybe in the future, but we will have to see how that is received once it exists. Also, a Cryptonote-like BTC side chain might exist someday. Agree. Apart from Zerocash, nothing. All others coins named "anonymous" are nothing more than a copy of Bitcoin with a mixer. You can use the mixer directly with Bitcoin : https://bitmixer.io/is it just us circlejerking? I can hardly understand why this is not more widely accepted. this is in my opinion the only really existing niche - all other things can probably be done with bitcoin in the future. also that sidechains can offer privacy is only half true - you still have to send them to the sidechain and also have to get them out of the chain. You have to understand that 99% of altcoin are just pump&dump aiming to make some scammer rich. You don't need any tech for that, just a nice logo some technical words in big letters and that's it. As you said, sidechain of Bitcoin are dependent on Bitcoin so it cannot be truly anonymous. If I send X coins on a side chain, I get back X coins. It is the same problem with mixing.
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smooth
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October 27, 2014, 01:45:38 PM |
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Is there an ETA for Zerocash?
Nothing firm. Various dates have been thrown around, some of them already passed. Is Monero development stalled? I last checked in here quite a while ago and we were pining for an official GUI back then same as now.
No it isn't stalled, but some priorities were shifted a bit toward security auditing and hardening. In the second most recent Missives it was explained that GUI development had resumed and a new test builds should be available soon.
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nakaone
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October 27, 2014, 02:21:06 PM |
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Is there an ETA for Zerocash?
Nothing firm. Various dates have been thrown around, some of them already passed. Is Monero development stalled? I last checked in here quite a while ago and we were pining for an official GUI back then same as now.
No it isn't stalled, but some priorities were shifted a bit toward security auditing and hardening. In the second most recent Missives it was explained that GUI development had resumed and a new test builds should be available soon. development for non-techies seems to be slow. I understand little of that but see the complexities. economically a death of xmr does make no sense, no matter what aspect I use.
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ZPserge
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October 27, 2014, 02:22:24 PM |
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Anyone think this is the bottom?
I think about 0.50EUR could be the bottom. I'm buying. this price is already, I think this is the end of this coins ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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coinism
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October 27, 2014, 02:25:57 PM |
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Anyone think this is the bottom?
I think about 0.50EUR could be the bottom. I'm buying. this price is already, I think this is the end of this coins ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) many here might say that this is only the beginning.
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rdnkjdi
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October 27, 2014, 02:29:37 PM |
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Are there any serious contenders for decentralized anonymous transactions besides the other Cryptonotes?
Not yet. Zerocash maybe in the future, but we will have to see how that is received once it exists. Also, a Cryptonote-like BTC side chain might exist someday. Agree. Apart from Zerocash, nothing. All others coins named "anonymous" are nothing more than a copy of Bitcoin with a mixer. You can use the mixer directly with Bitcoin : https://bitmixer.io/is it just us circlejerking? I can hardly understand why this is not more widely accepted. this is in my opinion the only really existing niche - all other things can probably be done with bitcoin in the future. also that sidechains can offer privacy is only half true - you still have to send them to the sidechain and also have to get them out of the chain. it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc). Still think the coin emission is going to hurt more than most people think - but while it's low it's possible to accumulate. IF this turns out to be a legitimate altcoin with litecoin market cap then you're looking at $20 per coin. I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I give it a 1 in 3 chance of happening eventually if someone else doesn't blow the anon PoW market away with a completely new coin.
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bitcoinrocks
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October 27, 2014, 02:36:57 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment.... Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason? Still think the coin emission is going to hurt more than most people think - but while it's low it's possible to accumulate. IF this turns out to be a legitimate altcoin with litecoin market cap then you're looking at $20 per coin. I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I give it a 1 in 3 chance of happening eventually if someone else doesn't blow the anon PoW market away with a completely new coin.
What coin emission issue is this?
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superresistant
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October 27, 2014, 02:38:44 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment.... Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?
It's been debated a lot already. Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that. All the people claiming that they have nothing to hide are ALL LYING. Hundred of experiments have proven that people behave submissively and are much more easy to control when feeling being watched. Start with this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc3%2F1984first.jpg%2F220px-1984first.jpg&t=665&c=xxN8T2SVpjFSzA)
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nakaone
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October 27, 2014, 02:52:51 PM |
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fungibility is also a serious issue. besides that:
I live in the western world in one of the most sophisticated democracies with very high standards regarding rule of law etc. - we probably never need btc or xmr.
BUT
If you live in a corrupt state where the state is confiscating without serious reasoning maybe the citizens should get the possibility for something which is not that easy to link or to confiscate.
With the recent development of bitcoin I think it will not be bitcoin which solves this niche, it will get regulated, controlled and transparent - that is all fine for me but it is obvious that it can be abused by corrupt governments if you do not live in a great country like I do.
I had long discussion with friends about the privacy issue regarding moral doubts:
I came to the following conclusion: if an individual does something bad he will get his punishment by the constitutional state - but who punishes a (constitutional) state which behaves badly? Despotism can only be fought by peoples who have the freedom to choose.
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rdnkjdi
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October 27, 2014, 02:53:24 PM |
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Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that.
Democracy & freedom are actually at odds with each other on a certain level. I *think* transparency lends itself to democracy more than freedom in allowing the masses to take away the rights of the individual.
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coinism
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October 27, 2014, 02:58:02 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment.... Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?
It's been debated a lot already. Without privacy there is no democracy nor freedom. Simple as that. All the people claiming that they have nothing to hide are ALL LYING. Hundred of experiments have proven that people behave submissively and are much more easy to control when feeling being watched. Start with this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fc3%2F1984first.jpg%2F220px-1984first.jpg&t=665&c=xxN8T2SVpjFSzA) people who think that privacy doesn't matter are misinformed/ignorant and don't fully understand the whole spectrum of the issue. "I've got nothing to hide" is a dangerous mantra that contradicts itself as people who use it are still walking with their clothes on and use doors in their house, keys etc.. Privacy is the very essence of capitalism!
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dEBRUYNE
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October 27, 2014, 02:59:28 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment.... Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?Still think the coin emission is going to hurt more than most people think - but while it's low it's possible to accumulate. IF this turns out to be a legitimate altcoin with litecoin market cap then you're looking at $20 per coin. I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I give it a 1 in 3 chance of happening eventually if someone else doesn't blow the anon PoW market away with a completely new coin.
What coin emission issue is this? There was a great post about it on reddit, but I can't find it anymore. A few things that I can remember are: -Suppose you get a pay raise, every other employee of the company could see this with a transparant chain. On top of that, most people are not comfortable with revealing there salary. With a transparant chain this would be easy to look up. -Everyone gets to see where (if your adress is known) how much you spend on which things. There were some other things there, but can't exactly remember it. Maybe some people could extend this topic a bit more. A transparant chain would be good for monitoring government expenditures, but for normal people a non-transparant chain would be much better. It is basicly like cash. Y A bit relevant as well: http://www.ted.com/talks/glenn_greenwald_why_privacy_matters
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smooth
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October 27, 2014, 03:08:05 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?
Please post your bank and credit card statements.
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smooth
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October 27, 2014, 03:12:01 PM |
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it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc).
(Almost) all the alts that aren't privacy centered have been taking a massive beating lately too, and Bitcoin too. Crypto bear market.
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mmortal03
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October 27, 2014, 03:13:14 PM Last edit: October 27, 2014, 04:30:14 PM by mmortal03 |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?
Please post your bank and credit card statements. Exactly. Btw, conversations on this topic are great, and need to somehow be more emphasized to the average person, regarding why they might want to use Monero over (or alongside) Bitcoin.
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papa_lazzarou
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October 27, 2014, 03:26:10 PM |
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If I may play devil's advocate for a moment....
Why should anyone besides criminals care about a non-transparent blockchain? I can imagine that a big holder wouldn't want their big holdings potentially traced back to them whenever they send coins. Any other (practical, non-philosophical) reason?
Please post your bank and credit card statements. I was going to say that my life is none of your business. But this drives the point home even better. Touché!
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shojayxt
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October 27, 2014, 03:31:11 PM |
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it's worth taking into account that all of the alts that are privacy centered have taken a massive beating lately (dark, bbr, btcd, etc).
(Almost) all the alts that aren't privacy centered have been taking a massive beating lately too, and Bitcoin too. Crypto bear market.That pretty much sums it up. If you look at other coin threads you'll see the same talk about price. However, this latest decline in XMR price has been pretty substantial compared to other coins. There is a significant amount of buy support, 364 btc on Poloniex but XMR will need to go down further to reach it. If you look at most coins none of them are anywhere near their all time highs. Monero's chart is similar to other coins that steadily declined from their peak. There was too much hype surrounding Monero and cryptonote coins in general. The price was artificially inflated and driven up by many not wanting to miss out.
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silencesilence
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October 27, 2014, 03:36:27 PM |
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I feel major WAR today.... after Monero Monday Missive!
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