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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4569913 times)
eizh
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May 07, 2014, 07:34:41 AM
 #921

From forum.cryptonote.org:
Quote from: Catherine_Erwin
We really appreciate your interest in CryptoNote and your urge to create something worthwhile.

However, we've been following Bitcointalk discussion of Bitmonero/Monero and we're still undecided whether adding this coin as a CryptoNote implementation would be a proper decision at this time. It took us almost a weak to reach a consensus among the team, so we apologize for the delay. We do believe that the time will come for you to be added, but at the moment there is a couple of questions for you to think about:

1) If CryptoNote supports new technologies and the advent of new technological era, what is the contribution of this coin? How does it make CryptoNote technology prosper? What is that you have created?

2) Why does this coin have 2 websites, 2 official threads, 2 announcements, 2 reps? Was it worthwhile after all to use someone else's work and try to take over the control afterwards and split the community?

As you can see, for example, HoneyPenny coin in another thread on this forum proposes new ideas for the technology. Moreover, they were contacting us before the launch.

We do wish to see more CryptoNote-based coins, but hope that their creators would be more in line with our vision and keep their personal ambitions and greed low.

Please, correct me if we've got anything wrong.
That bolded statement is rich.

They're clearly unhappy but I think in general we should aim to be neutral (or reconcile) with CryptoNote devs as they're very important -- I'm pretty sure at least one of them contributes to BCN and its updates, which we need for continued development. With first mover advantage MRO will probably maintain more hashpower than any other CN coin, if not all of them combined. CryptoNote won't be able to ignore MRO.
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Johnny Mnemonic
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May 07, 2014, 08:22:11 AM
 #922

I go into detailed discussion with tromp in my thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.0

Also you can find some discussion between him and myself in the MemoryCoin 2.0 PoW thread which I linked to upthread.

In short, I don't believe it is CPU only currently, but (and I think we agreed this, but ask him) it might be the appropriate algorithm for mobile later if CPUs move to extremely high number of cores. Our discussion concluded with more testing is needed and I would try to help him get a TileGX in future if I can.

I'm much more interested in your thoughts on HoneyPenny's PoW, as it's claimed to be an improved and future-proofed version of the CryptoNote algo:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.0
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May 07, 2014, 08:49:45 AM
 #923

They're clearly unhappy but I think in general we should aim to be neutral (or reconcile) with CryptoNote devs
...
CryptoNote won't be able to ignore MRO.

Yes, I agree with you. To not even make an attempt at uniting would be a massive error. This also means that their concerns should be addressed correctly and directly:

Quote from: CryptoNote
1) If CryptoNote supports new technologies and the advent of new technological era, what is the contribution of this coin? How does it make CryptoNote technology prosper? What is that you have created?

I see a valid point raised here that I can, in the least, share my thoughts on. First, we have decided to take an open and transparent approach to introducing CryptoNote built on direct and constant communication. Though there may have been both direct and constant communication shared by alternatives, it was not open nor transparent. In fact it was the complete opposite, as we were told to be silent -- a statement that has not been vouched for on the main page despite many members leaving the community.

With the intent of mass adoption -- openness is the major first step. We were placed in a situation where this can only be achieved with a fork in the first place, publicly available and ready to be shared by as representative of a majority as possible. Sitting around and listening to the Rocky theme song all day just doesn't cut it when you're trying to spread the word about something that should otherwise be shifting a paradigm.

Second, CryptoNote technology prospers by putting more minds on it. The more liberal spread of information, despite the threat of impending surveillance, between people fosters an environment that is conducive to building a proper foundation for this technology. Very soon, there will be a functional GUI environment to further the "seep into the mass" as I've read it sickeningly called.

It's not very easy to come up with many ways CryptoNote can directly prosper, because there does not seem to be an environment present that can assist in defining exactly what that philosophy is. Answers can't come days in-between, because MRO is here now and is dynamic -- something I find lacking in this philosophy I'd like further defined.

Lastly, what we have provided is a vessel by which the technology can reach the masses -- something that has been made to appear as both impossible and unwanted by the current standing of the first realization of your philosophy. This vessel will be accompanied by tools which the masses are concerned with -- optimizations, GUI environments, possible GPU adaption in the short term. I am sure beyond doubt there will be others -- but generally utilizing the mass has and will provide innovations on levels that could never be considered or thought of in closed communities.

But, as none of these really exist yet, I feel they are correct in waiting to accept the coin.

Quote from: CryptoNote
2) Why does this coin have 2 websites, 2 official threads, 2 announcements, 2 reps? Was it worthwhile after all to use someone else's work and try to take over the control afterwards and split the community?

This, I feel should be addressed by Tacotime. The short answer is that, in a coin that favors the mass, the mass speaks for the coin. Not one guy who wants to merge mine it with everything and certainly not one person with personal aspirations or greed. If everyone wanted merge mining, there would be one coin rather than two -- an interesting result of development in a dynamic environment rather than a static one.


Quote from: CryptoNote
We do wish to see more CryptoNote-based coins, but hope that their creators would be more in line with our vision and keep their personal ambitions and greed low

I would love this to be explained, because I do not understand what is being said. The comment is rather vague and can be applied to any situation.

Do I call the dog greedy for wanting the food? To what extent do personal ambitions cross over into existential ambitions? The comment spurs many more questions than it needed to -- which means it needs to be further defined before I can take any meaning from it (Will prevent myself from entertaining the statement in my mind until it's explained).

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May 07, 2014, 10:11:46 AM
 #924

I assume mining only begins after the whole blockchain is synced?

(still 26 days behind)
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May 07, 2014, 10:13:14 AM
Last edit: May 07, 2014, 10:23:16 AM by pandher
 #925

I assume mining only begins after the whole blockchain is synced?

(still 26 days behind)

Yes, you can download a recent copy of the blockchain from OP
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May 07, 2014, 10:27:44 AM
 #926

Yes, you can download a recent copy of the blockchain from OP

Highly recommended. This is much faster than waiting for the daemon to sync it.
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May 07, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
 #927

From forum.cryptonote.org:
Quote from: Catherine_Erwin
We really appreciate your interest in CryptoNote and your urge to create something worthwhile.

However, we've been following Bitcointalk discussion of Bitmonero/Monero and we're still undecided whether adding this coin as a CryptoNote implementation would be a proper decision at this time. It took us almost a weak to reach a consensus among the team, so we apologize for the delay. We do believe that the time will come for you to be added, but at the moment there is a couple of questions for you to think about:

1) If CryptoNote supports new technologies and the advent of new technological era, what is the contribution of this coin? How does it make CryptoNote technology prosper? What is that you have created?

2) Why does this coin have 2 websites, 2 official threads, 2 announcements, 2 reps? Was it worthwhile after all to use someone else's work and try to take over the control afterwards and split the community?

As you can see, for example, HoneyPenny coin in another thread on this forum proposes new ideas for the technology. Moreover, they were contacting us before the launch.

We do wish to see more CryptoNote-based coins, but hope that their creators would be more in line with our vision and keep their personal ambitions and greed low.

Please, correct me if we've got anything wrong.
That bolded statement is rich.

Yes, next time we should 80% premine instead. That might meet with their approval.




You're on the right way! Instamining is a good start! Grin

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May 07, 2014, 12:06:23 PM
 #928

From forum.cryptonote.org:
Quote from: Catherine_Erwin
We really appreciate your interest in CryptoNote and your urge to create something worthwhile.

However, we've been following Bitcointalk discussion of Bitmonero/Monero and we're still undecided whether adding this coin as a CryptoNote implementation would be a proper decision at this time. It took us almost a weak to reach a consensus among the team, so we apologize for the delay. We do believe that the time will come for you to be added, but at the moment there is a couple of questions for you to think about:

1) If CryptoNote supports new technologies and the advent of new technological era, what is the contribution of this coin? How does it make CryptoNote technology prosper? What is that you have created?

2) Why does this coin have 2 websites, 2 official threads, 2 announcements, 2 reps? Was it worthwhile after all to use someone else's work and try to take over the control afterwards and split the community?

As you can see, for example, HoneyPenny coin in another thread on this forum proposes new ideas for the technology. Moreover, they were contacting us before the launch.

We do wish to see more CryptoNote-based coins, but hope that their creators would be more in line with our vision and keep their personal ambitions and greed low.

Please, correct me if we've got anything wrong.
That bolded statement is rich.

Yes, next time we should 80% premine instead. That might meet with their approval.




You're on the right way! Instamining is a good start! Grin

Yeah, this closed source miner is really becoming a problem. 8m diff - can't go anywhere with my 20 h/s now...
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May 07, 2014, 12:29:49 PM
 #929

this is my favorite alt coin, but have no idea if actually trying to mine it  Cry

in windoes how do u check if actually mining it properly?


(been mining for days and found nothing)

Do show_hr in the daemon window. If it tells you a hash rate (somewhere 10-20 for most computers) then you are mining.

Do hide_hr to make it stop displaying the hash rate (you will still be mining)



When I do "show_hr" in the daemon I get this: "unknown command: show_hr"

Task Manager shows 75 percent CPU usage (6 threads), bitmonerod.exe


Btw how to check the balance the easiest way? (I just love command line, so user friendly)
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May 07, 2014, 12:33:17 PM
 #930

this is my favorite alt coin, but have no idea if actually trying to mine it  Cry

in windoes how do u check if actually mining it properly?


(been mining for days and found nothing)

Do show_hr in the daemon window. If it tells you a hash rate (somewhere 10-20 for most computers) then you are mining.

Do hide_hr to make it stop displaying the hash rate (you will still be mining)



When I do "show_hr" in the daemon I get this: "unknown command: show_hr"

Task Manager shows 75 percent CPU usage (6 threads), bitmonerod.exe


Btw how to check the balance the easiest way? (I just love command line, so user friendly)

show_hr should work. Are you sure you do it on daemon and not on the wallet?

to see balance type refresh on the wallet

btw type help to see more options
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May 07, 2014, 12:33:52 PM
 #931

this is my favorite alt coin, but have no idea if actually trying to mine it  Cry

in windoes how do u check if actually mining it properly?


(been mining for days and found nothing)

Do show_hr in the daemon window. If it tells you a hash rate (somewhere 10-20 for most computers) then you are mining.

Do hide_hr to make it stop displaying the hash rate (you will still be mining)



When I do "show_hr" in the daemon I get this: "unknown command: show_hr"

Task Manager shows 75 percent CPU usage (6 threads), bitmonerod.exe


Btw how to check the balance the easiest way? (I just love command line, so user friendly)

just use refresh in the wallet to see your balance.

if your doing show_hr in the daemon and not in the wallet im not sure why that wouldnt work
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May 07, 2014, 12:36:27 PM
 #932

When you put it like that I guess I'm not in the right place.

http://tinypic.com/r/xf516d/8
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May 07, 2014, 12:37:46 PM
 #933

It is also case sensitive so "Show_hr" won't work - make sure you're entering "show_hr" no spaces/tabs or anything like that.

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May 07, 2014, 12:38:57 PM
 #934

Ugh, nevermind. Stupidity from me. Was in the wallet ofcourse.

Hashrate: 17.3 (i7-2600K 3.4ghz)
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May 07, 2014, 12:39:06 PM
 #935

When you put it like that I guess I'm not in the right place.

http://tinypic.com/r/xf516d/8

But it clearly says wallet! You are in the wrong place. You must type show_hr on bitmonerod
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May 07, 2014, 12:40:19 PM
 #936

When you put it like that I guess I'm not in the right place.

http://tinypic.com/r/xf516d/8

But it clearly says wallet! You are in the wrong place. You must type show_hr on bitmonerod

Sorry, it's almost chinese to me.
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May 07, 2014, 12:48:18 PM
 #937

Hmm so how exactly its more anon than most coins. Can someone post more detailed explanation how multiple signatures are implemented with POW? Usually 1 key controls x amount of coins. By simply adding mixer? Cheesy
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May 07, 2014, 01:00:17 PM
 #938

hi,

I really like cryptonotes input. taco, smooth and ezih have been very heplpful. But as an outsider, this is very confusing.
negatives:
1. miner that is closed source by noodle ( is noodle part of the development team). not consistent with fairness, cooperation and being open. more in line with greed. ( I dont think greed is always bad)
2. hasty launch without testing...first to market goal and associated confusion
3. direct copy of bytecoin ( no new features or implementations )
4. mega downloads not working.
5. multiple threads very confusing to new members
6. emission curve not what was originally promised


positives:
1. overall compared to other coins very fair. perhapse another coin would have been implemented that would have been more greedy. ala darkcoin (from what I have read. second hand stuff)
2. smooth, ezih and taco constant presence and patience
3. percieved fairness is demonstrated by increasing HR and community growth.
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May 07, 2014, 01:50:53 PM
 #939

Hmm so how exactly its more anon than most coins. Can someone post more detailed explanation how multiple signatures are implemented with POW? Usually 1 key controls x amount of coins. By simply adding mixer? Cheesy

Stealth addressing and ring signatures that obscure the signer of accounts.  It also has automated denominations.

See: https://bytecoin.org/whitepaper.pdf

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 07, 2014, 02:04:14 PM
 #940

hi,

I really like cryptonotes input. taco, smooth and ezih have been very heplpful. But as an outsider, this is very confusing.
negatives:
1. miner that is closed source by noodle ( is noodle part of the development team). not consistent with fairness, cooperation and being open. more in line with greed. ( I dont think greed is always bad)
2. hasty launch without testing...first to market goal and associated confusion
3. direct copy of bytecoin ( no new features or implementations )
4. mega downloads not working.
5. multiple threads very confusing to new members
6. emission curve not what was originally promised


positives:
1. overall compared to other coins very fair. perhapse another coin would have been implemented that would have been more greedy. ala darkcoin (from what I have read. second hand stuff)
2. smooth, ezih and taco constant presence and patience
3. percieved fairness is demonstrated by increasing HR and community growth.
Hi

Thank you for this synthetic list, it helps much for replying. Let me give some precision:

Negative
1. miner's latest version is closed source because Noodle prefers it to be stable before releasing the source. If will be open-source eventually
2. We wanted MRO to be ready before the Bytecoin ninjamine take the lead. In a way, fast release helped fighting premine. Considering the present hashrate, that was the right strategy
3. not a direct copy, since we changed some parameters, especially related to a flatter curse, for rewarding early adopters less - which means fairer for the greater amount of people. Plus, new features are planned but I prefer to not say which one for the moment. Finally and maybe more importantly: Bytecoin was 80% premined ("ninjamined", as we call it)
4. Consider the monero starter pack. Full of precompiled binaries. Since I am the maintainer, please mention any improvement on it.
5. We apologize for this, we hope this is now getting easier. We asked the Bitcointalk moderators to move the thread, they never answered. Anyway, the more it will go, the more the other Ann will be buried.
6. Can you extrapolate on this one?

Positive
2. Well, I am there too, especially on the freenode IRC channel #monero Smiley

Keep going with such high SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) posts, I like it Smiley

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