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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4569913 times)
emontmon
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May 07, 2014, 03:28:54 PM
 #961

david

thank you for your reply. I did not mean to bypass you and you have been very helpful.
those are really my thoughts on how it is percieved by outsiders.


I keep saying this but you and others are very well versed. all developers passion is to be commended.
however, items deemed as non relevant or easy are often the source of distress/frustration. reading the thread this is obvious.


the emission curve was initially said to mimic btc. however it does not.  
1. It is good to hear that features will be implemented. I think sooner rather than later. I would recommend discussion of the options posted and reasoning why one was selected over the other.
2. I see the generosity of others in contributing to funds. unlike other coins where developers are asking for money. here developers putting their own coins for development. this is probably why this coin is doing so well. like a ceo buying stocks in his own company.
3. is the goal for this coin to be an asset or a currency. maybe this is what cryptonote was referring to. perhaps keeping it off exchanges is best. in this way value of the coin is independent of btc or physical money(fiat). the demand for exchange so that people can trade is more in line with greed immediate return (not necessarily a bad thing), then the vision of cryptonote to be used as a currency long term.
4. changing from one minute to two minutes for confirmation time is good. 2 minute confirmation was done with thought, changing it to 1 minute was done with out thought. (atleast it was not made obvious)




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There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin Core, which will follow the rules of the network no matter what miners do. Even if every miner decided to create 1000 bitcoins per block, full nodes would stick to the rules and reject those blocks.
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May 07, 2014, 03:31:07 PM
 #962

Quote
Yeah, "no instamine, no arguments".

How do you explain this raise? How do I know you don't secretly mine the coin with ultra-optimized miner. I'd like to see my points answered.

Someone made an optimized miner or started a botnet.  This has no impact on fungibility of the coin later. Artforz mined the shit out of Bitcoin with GPUs before anyone else, and there were numerous botnets on LTC.  Someone is being rewarded for their own work in obtaining a greater hashrate.  I'm not going to point fingers and shout that it's unfair.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 07, 2014, 03:35:59 PM
 #963

I guess if bytecoin guys give a fuck about community and tft actually responded to what people say he wouldnt lose control of a coin so miserably as it seems he deserves.


That's so rude of you, man.


Yes man its rude. I know.  But from the start this was exackly what i saw you doing. Instead of creating a coin that could be great you just wanted to make bytecoin's price rise.
And then when community didnt want merge mining you just disappeared...


I have always thought that cryptocurrency people do their own coins instead of stealing them from others  Wink
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May 07, 2014, 03:38:29 PM
 #964

I guess if bytecoin guys give a fuck about community and tft actually responded to what people say he wouldnt lose control of a coin so miserably as it seems he deserves.


That's so rude of you, man.


Yes man its rude. I know.  But from the start this was exackly what i saw you doing. Instead of creating a coin that could be great you just wanted to make bytecoin's price rise.
And then when community didnt want merge mining you just disappeared...


I have always thought that cryptocurrency people do their own coins instead of stealing them from others  Wink

I thought that open source cryptocurrency is being developed by community Wink
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May 07, 2014, 03:39:08 PM
 #965

Hi emontmon and thanks for your reply,

0. As for the emission curve, as mentionned earlier, it is not something that the current team implemented - we have to live with that and it was not possible to change after without making people unhappy and breaking thing. I know it sounds easy to say "not our fault" but what else could be done?

1. For now, the focus is on the pool. Main issue is that MRO is so much different from other coins (for good reasons) that it is hard to get it right. And the minergate team (the bytecoin's pool with a huge 10% fee, a steal if you ask me) is not willing to help.

2. I hope our policy of putting our money where our mouth is" will continue to be recognized as an evidence of fairness, thanks to highlighting this point Smiley

3. You'll notice on my signature a tacotime' sentence: "Fuck the pump and dumps, we're here to create something with value that people can use". I hope than answer your question Smiley

4. I don't have the required technical skill to answer on this one, but I guess I can say, err... thanks Smiley

david

thank you for your reply. I did not mean to bypass you and you have been very helpful.
those are really my thoughts on how it is percieved by outsiders.


I keep saying this but you and others are very well versed. all developers passion is to be commended.
however, items deemed as non relevant or easy are often the source of distress/frustration. reading the thread this is obvious.


the emission curve was initially said to mimic btc. however it does not.  
1. It is good to hear that features will be implemented. I think sooner rather than later. I would recommend discussion of the options posted and reasoning why one was selected over the other.
2. I see the generosity of others in contributing to funds. unlike other coins where developers are asking for money. here developers putting their own coins for development. this is probably why this coin is doing so well. like a ceo buying stocks in his own company.
3. is the goal for this coin to be an asset or a currency. maybe this is what cryptonote was referring to. perhaps keeping it off exchanges is best. in this way value of the coin is independent of btc or physical money(fiat). the demand for exchange so that people can trade is more in line with greed immediate return (not necessarily a bad thing), then the vision of cryptonote to be used as a currency long term.
4. changing from one minute to two minutes for confirmation time is good. 2 minute confirmation was done with thought, changing it to 1 minute was done with out thought. (atleast it was not made obvious)

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May 07, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
 #966

I guess if bytecoin guys give a fuck about community and tft actually responded to what people say he wouldnt lose control of a coin so miserably as it seems he deserves.


That's so rude of you, man.


Yes man its rude. I know.  But from the start this was exackly what i saw you doing. Instead of creating a coin that could be great you just wanted to make bytecoin's price rise.
And then when community didnt want merge mining you just disappeared...


Edit: I am sorry for being aggresive but i hate premine

In favor of instamine, may I ask? Smiley


Wasnt tft that made the mistake with the curve? I may be wrong here but i think it was tft's mistake that the coin is being mined faster than proposed...And voices were heard that it wasnt a mistake...

And you know what, no i dont like instamine. I prefer it 10 times over premine. Make a coin with no premine and no instamine and i will support it with my full power. Seriously.



There is no instamine. Difficulty adjustment is per block.  Blocks are coming in at almost the same rate they were a few days ago. Instamine refers to setting block reward artificially high or difficulty artificially low at the start of the chain, which has never happened with this coin.

Yes, difficulty adjustment IS per block, but it won't be able to comrehend huge powers fast enough therefore "a guy" or a group of people will gain MUCH more blocks compared to default users. If I can't call it instamine how should I ?

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May 07, 2014, 03:49:34 PM
 #967

Hi emontmon and thanks for your reply,

0. As for the emission curve, as mentionned earlier, it is not something that the current team implemented - we have to live with that and it was not possible to change after without making people unhappy and breaking thing. I know it sounds easy to say "not our fault" but what else could be done?

1. For now, the focus is on the pool. Main issue is that MRO is so much different from other coins (for good reasons) that it is hard to get it right. And the minergate team (the bytecoin's pool with a huge 10% fee, a steal if you ask me) is not willing to help.

2. I hope our policy of putting our money where our mouth is" will continue to be recognized as an evidence of fairness, thanks to highlighting this point Smiley

3. You'll notice on my signature a tacotime' sentence: "Fuck the pump and dumps, we're here to create something with value that people can use". I hope than answer your question Smiley

4. I don't have the required technical skill to answer on this one, but I guess I can say, err... thanks Smiley

I was actually hoping that you were busy writing a reply to my topic. How many times should I ask the question so that you start answering it?

This makes me feel I am very very right on your instamine plan with hyper-optimized miner.

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Someone made an optimized miner or started a botnet.

And my point is this "someone" is NoodleDoodle and his supporters. Most likely, you too.
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May 07, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
 #968

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?

Go mine your fantom coin. If you dont like Monero, dont post here simple

btw calling Monero an instamine is the most stupid thing you can do.
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May 07, 2014, 03:56:29 PM
 #969

I was actually hoping that you were busy writing a reply to my topic. How many times should I ask the question so that you start answering it?
As I said earler: when you will apologize for insulting people (which as nothing to do with agreeing or not with your content), then I will reply. As long as you will be rude, I won't reply.

For all: this holds true to anyone, not just Rias. I don't reply to people resorting to insults - other may, not me.

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May 07, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
 #970

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?

Go mine your fantom coin. If you dont like Monero, dont post here simple

I like BitMonero.  And I want it to be fair. As fair as it was at the beginning: no surprising re-namings, no fishy optimized miners and no games of thrones, when a couple of strangers overthrow the main dev.
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May 07, 2014, 03:58:40 PM
 #971

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?
Usual scare tactics. As old as Sun T'zu (but less sophisticated). This is called FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I works well among newcomers, much less among veterans (it is like the good cop/bad cop scheme; it is actually counter-productive against seasoned criminals)

It doesn't mean it must be ignored, though. You reply to it not for convincing the FUDder, but for convincing the newcomers who will read the FUDder's attack.

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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May 07, 2014, 04:01:24 PM
 #972

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?

Go mine your fantom coin. If you dont like Monero, dont post here simple

I like BitMonero.  And I want it to be fair. As fair as it was at the beginning: no surprising re-namings, no fishy optimized miners and no games of thrones, when a couple of strangers overthrow the main dev.


It is Monero now, the main dev does not listen to the community AFAIK. People voted against MM and now we have a new MM fork lol. And now as we have a so called better coin, why are you still wasting time here?

And optimized binaries are available to download for everyone. Increased hashrate is not a surprise
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May 07, 2014, 04:14:05 PM
 #973

Diff became really crazy. I wonder why it's so?

Despite the hr is high after several days mining with new Linux miner, 18H/s and nothing. It seems to be more difficult than bytecoin mining.

As for NoodleDoodle would like to quote Hexah

"I remember times when people refused to mine BCN on MinerGate just because it was closed source. And now you have closed source binaries and are happy with it.
Hypocrisy much? Where did all this “open source” fighters go?"


Indeed, why don't you make it open? I would like to see the code, and, IMO, I'm not the only one.
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May 07, 2014, 04:22:22 PM
 #974

So, considering the present hashrate - Noodle's testing is going really well. Grin When community will gain access to instamine tech?


Ah ah! We would like it to be Noodle, but that's not. That's probably a farm (too fast a rise to be organic growth only).
Also, what's up with the name changing? Bitmonero was okay to my opinion. (I know, should've asked earlier)
Most of us did not like bitmonero and so we voted in the early days on a public IRC session. Among arguments were "more than three syllables" and "this bit part is ugly". Plus, but that's just my opinion, monero is like "people's money", whilst bitmonero is like "some new coin" (it could have been worse; imagine "monerocoin!")

Most of "us"? Who are those "us"?
Why didn't you asked forum community about renaming? You decided not to listen to people's opinion just like TFT, huh?  Wink
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May 07, 2014, 04:23:04 PM
 #975

I think a lot can be learned from all this conversation including from those that are upset.
they see something of value (cpu coins are valuable and I believe the future of cryptocurrency)

an alogrithm that takes advantage of the uniqueness of a cpu will keep it cpu bound. A gpu is not a cpu for a reason. an asic is not a cpu for a reason. those two items would then be cpu if they could do what cpu's do.  probably a very poor example, but windows can not be run on an asic or a gpu.

cryptonote has a unique techonlogy ( I have read but do not understand and in this way I am a sheep). adding to it, to keep it cpu bound should be the goal and for this, I do not think taco is best. His own MC2 (very good coin proposal) is not aimed at being cpu or gpu bound. it seems it will follow any direction technology will bring.

I agree with name change. this is a simple change but the execution was confusing. this made it a community coin not a tft coin. can we implement a proof of stake into this coin and and inflamtion and or a 1 percent transaction fee to miners. or just running the miner per thread generating .25 coin per month. regardless of blocks found. (rambling i hope devs can gleen my meaning)
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May 07, 2014, 04:23:44 PM
 #976

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?

Go mine your fantom coin. If you dont like Monero, dont post here simple

I like BitMonero.  And I want it to be fair. As fair as it was at the beginning: no surprising re-namings, no fishy optimized miners and no games of thrones, when a couple of strangers overthrow the main dev.


It is Monero now, the main dev does not listen to the community AFAIK. People voted against MM and now we have a new MM fork lol. And now as we have a so called better coin, why are you still wasting time here?

And optimized binaries are available to download for everyone. Increased hashrate is not a surprise

I think it was optimized even further since I can't imagine what kind of farm would cause this much increase in hashrate. My i7 is giving me 20-25 h/s - 90000/20 = 4500 i7's - let's face it - it's highly doubtful.

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May 07, 2014, 04:26:25 PM
 #977

WTB 1000 MRO


Post here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=578192.0
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May 07, 2014, 04:26:34 PM
 #978

Funny how these people come up like mushrooms. Jealous much?

Go mine your fantom coin. If you dont like Monero, dont post here simple

I like BitMonero.  And I want it to be fair. As fair as it was at the beginning: no surprising re-namings, no fishy optimized miners and no games of thrones, when a couple of strangers overthrow the main dev.


It is Monero now, the main dev does not listen to the community AFAIK. People voted against MM and now we have a new MM fork lol. And now as we have a so called better coin, why are you still wasting time here?

And optimized binaries are available to download for everyone. Increased hashrate is not a surprise

I disagree that devs don't listen to community. When I asked politely they answered me.
Although, I am far more willing to mine fantomcoin now as it is easier and not confusing me things as here.I mean 2 official threads and now I can hardly tell who the dev is and responsible for problems with this coin. Looks like there is a group of people who rule here.
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May 07, 2014, 04:26:48 PM
 #979

I was actually hoping that you were busy writing a reply to my topic. How many times should I ask the question so that you start answering it?
As I said earler: when you will apologize for insulting people (which as nothing to do with agreeing or not with your content), then I will reply. As long as you will be rude, I won't reply.

For all: this holds true to anyone, not just Rias. I don't reply to people resorting to insults - other may, not me.

Don't see an insult, but ok, we'll make it more corteous:

I was waiting until I saw this graph, but it tells much much more.



Quote
Thank you for this synthetic list, it helps much for replying. Let me give some precision:

Yes, thank you for the list, it makes the best concentration of the incosistences in this Monero coin. Let me give some precision too.

I am pretty sure that you might be instiming Bitmonero and concealing this.

Quote
1. miner's latest version is closed source because Noodle prefers it to be stable before releasing the source. If will be open-source eventually

You will grant the open-source to your the grander community after what time exactly? How much can be instamined during this phase?

Quote
2. We wanted MRO to be ready before the Bytecoin ninjamine take the lead. In a way, fast release helped fighting premine. Considering the present hashrate, that was the right strategy

You didn't want to do anything, when the coin was created. You always responded as if it was a too early launch, or a creepy-BCN-guys-conspiracy.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6237909#msg6237909

Then when you felt you were left out you decided to overtake the coin and find a way to make a fortune.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.msg6364242#msg6364242

Your sudden shift in attitude is weird. Once you were against Minergate and its closed source, now you're keeping the most important part of the coin for miners private. How do we make sure there is no other super-optimized miner that you are not even talking about?

At that time you were more worried about instamining then now, until the difficulty skyrocketed with super optimized miners, which we'll never see.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582080.msg6364370#msg6364370

Quote
3. not a direct copy, since we changed some parameters, especially related to a flatter curse, for rewarding early adopters less - which means fairer for the greater amount of people. Plus, new features are planned but I prefer to not say which one for the moment. Finally and maybe more importantly: Bytecoin was 80% premined ("ninjamined", as we call it)

You didn't change anything. It was Thakful_for_today who started the coin:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.0

It was you who forked the rep and took over the control overnight starting from the name change to avoid someone cracking on your plans:
https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commits/master

Everything you ever "created" was Instaminer from NoodleDoodle, the rest you took from BMR or BCN code (sorry for the bold)

And you in particular, David, didn't even know how to check your hashrate when the BMR started:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.msg6286721#msg6286721

Quote
4. Consider the monero starter pack. Full of precompiled binaries. Since I am the maintainer, please mention any improvement on it.

Open-source miner.

Quote
5. We apologize for this, we hope this is now getting easier. We asked the Bitcointalk moderators to move the thread, they never answered. Anyway, the more it will go, the more the other Ann will be buried.

You know why they never answered? Because you've created a second topic and decided to steal the control over the coin.


My personal resume on the coin

You never did any thing apart from compiling miner guides (thank you for that), and creating an optimized miner to (I assume) instamine the coin yourself. And yes, you spent hours & hours & hors on this forum just posting irrelevant things, like posting strategy for the dummies above, which will drive more users to your apparently instamined coin.

Congratulations, you've made it! The fair launch was soooo fair!

Disclaimer: I apologize if any of my assumptions insult anybody and would like the self-proclaimed authors to finally clarify on the following points:

1) How exactly did you benefit the community and the coin?
2) When is the open source miner going to be released? Why it wasn't? Please, provide exact technical details on that "unstable code thing".
3) Why did you change your attitude towards closed-source miner?
4) Why did you take over the coin and create a second thread when there was one already there?
5) Why did you change the domain name and forked the rep, while keeping the blockchain that you never started?
6) Why do you keep avoiding this very clear questions.

Thank you.
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May 07, 2014, 04:30:53 PM
 #980

Most of us did not like bitmonero and so we voted in the early days on a public IRC session. Among arguments were "more than three syllables" and "this bit part is ugly". Plus, but that's just my opinion, monero is like "people's money", whilst bitmonero is like "some new coin" (it could have been worse; imagine "monerocoin!")

Most of "us"? Who are those "us"?
Why didn't you asked forum community about renaming? You decided not to listen to people's opinion just like TFT, huh?  Wink[/quote]The one who where on MRO (BMR by this time) on the first week. It been discussed on BTT then voted on IRC, with a votebot. So, yes, we did ask the community and the community participated. Old thread for checking the archive: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.0

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