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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4628478 times)
emontmon
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May 07, 2014, 07:08:44 PM
 #1041

Quote
farm/botnet/isntamine is not necessarily what is going on. but rather more users, finally directing their miners to monero.

The global hash increase was way too fast for this IMO.  Large server farm is the most likely explanation, I've seen it happen with other coins in the past.

sure. But miner/cryptocummunity attention can not be ignored as a possibility also.
1. people are sheep in general. they react with emotion. this could be lemming situation.
2. if you were a botnet owner and spent money (a lot I assume), would you direct your botnet to a month old cryptocurrency. Or would you direct it at coins already proven to be valuable with exchanges. Botnet owners I think are more like banks, they care more about short term profits than long term value. such a resource would not be chanced on an extremely speculative coin (more so than the rest). how many new coins come out, and how many are successful. I am sure botnet owners measure and weigh risk and profit differently than small players. It would in my mind an asic developer investing resources now for this coin when it has just come out of the gates.

I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES I HA(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ TABLES I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES
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May 07, 2014, 07:18:17 PM
 #1042

anyone else seeing weird messages like this in the daemon?

Quote
2014-May-07 21:16:59.495151 [P2P0][222.88.234.35:61871 INC]Sync data returned unknown top block: 22599->1202[-21397 blocks(12810238940076062 days) behind]
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May 07, 2014, 07:18:30 PM
 #1043

Quote
farm/botnet/isntamine is not necessarily what is going on. but rather more users, finally directing their miners to monero.

The global hash increase was way too fast for this IMO.  Large server farm is the most likely explanation, I've seen it happen with other coins in the past.

sure. But miner/cryptocummunity attention can not be ignored as a possibility also.
1. people are sheep in general. they react with emotion. this could be lemming situation.
2. if you were a botnet owner and spent money (a lot I assume), would you direct your botnet to a month old cryptocurrency. Or would you direct it at coins already proven to be valuable with exchanges. Botnet owners I think are more like banks, they care more about short term profits than long term value. such a resource would not be chanced on an extremely speculative coin (more so than the rest). how many new coins come out, and how many are successful. I am sure botnet owners measure and weigh risk and profit differently than small players. It would in my mind an asic developer investing resources now for this coin when it has just come out of the gates.



Anybody who has been at this a while can spot a coin that has major future potential easily, people running server farms are generally very good at this too.  If I had a server farm this is where I'd be pointing it at without a doubt in my mind.
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May 07, 2014, 07:21:28 PM
 #1044

Anybody who has been at this a while can spot a coin that has major future potential easily, people running server farms are generally very good at this too.  If I had a server farm this is where I'd be pointing it at without a doubt in my mind.
Exactly. This is an evidence of long term potetnial that som uch people are mining it, trolling it or even trying to relaunch it.

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May 07, 2014, 07:28:42 PM
 #1045

I was actually hoping that you were busy writing a reply to my topic. How many times should I ask the question so that you start answering it?
As I said earler: when you will apologize for insulting people (which as nothing to do with agreeing or not with your content), then I will reply. As long as you will be rude, I won't reply.

For all: this holds true to anyone, not just Rias. I don't reply to people resorting to insults - other may, not me.
Don't see an insult, but ok, we'll make it more corteous:
Good, now we can talk again Smiley
But since things have changed so fast since then, could you sum up the question wihch still make sense for me to answer to?[/quote]

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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May 07, 2014, 07:47:25 PM
 #1046

I don't mind the 'relaunch' or the merge-mining fork or any other new coin at all. It's inevitable that the CryptoNote progresses like scrypt into a giant mess of coins. It's not undesirable or 'wrong'. Clones fighting out among themselves is actually beneficial for Monero. Although one of them is clearly unserious and trolling by choosing the same name.

Anyway, this sudden solidarity with BCN or TFT sure is strange when none of these accounts were around for the discussions that took place 3 weeks ago. Such vested interests with no prior indications. Hmm...? Smiley
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May 07, 2014, 07:54:39 PM
 #1047


Ok. Seems quite lame indeed.

Good, now we can talk again Smiley
But since things have changed so fast since then, could you sum up the question wihch still make sense for me to answer to?
[/quote]

Good, I'm sorry if it was disproportional.

My main questions were about skyrocket difficulty, a potentially unfair optimized miners, and an unfair take-over-control procedure.

As the miner is open-source now, and the difficulty chart can't be explained anyhow, the only one to ask you is how did it happen with the renaming and cloning the git.
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May 07, 2014, 07:56:26 PM
Last edit: May 07, 2014, 08:08:19 PM by Johnny Mnemonic
 #1048

Rias, I don't think there is any intentional deception on part of the dev team. Most of what you've pointed out was simply the result of hasty decision making. I know this because I was present for much of it. For example, when the coin was renamed, tacotime, smooth, eizh, david, myself and maybe 2 or 3 other people voted on it. You can say we were being "secretive", but at the time we pretty much were the only stakeholders and accounted for the vast majority of MRO's hashrate. Edit: It's also worth noting that a public naming discussion was attempted, but only resulted in a domain race.

I have little reason to defend MRO as I've stated plenty that I think it has long term flaws and some important decisions were hastily made that I personally witnessed on irc. However, I'm pretty certain there is no foul play involved and these folks took a lot of care to make the launch as fair as possible.
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May 07, 2014, 08:11:34 PM
Last edit: May 07, 2014, 08:53:47 PM by eizh
 #1049


Good, I'm sorry if it was disproportional.

My main questions were about skyrocket difficulty, a potentially unfair optimized miners, and an unfair take-over-control procedure.

As the miner is open-source now, and the difficulty chart can't be explained anyhow, the only one to ask you is how did it happen with the renaming and cloning the git.

We honestly have no idea where the hash power increase of the last 24 hours came from. No, it's not Noodle, since he was as surprised as anyone else. There are a lot of people with large amounts of computing power (even legally) and the increase 'only' corresponded to a few thousand CPUs. This community is not very big yet so large percent increases can still happen.

As far as 'take-over' goes, that does happen in altcoins occasionally. >50% of the hashpower was represented in the meetings, which is the closest there is to "shareholders". TFT recently sent myself and a few others a PM saying he regrets not listening to the community more. I don't know how honest that is or isn't but it doesn't matter. There were good reasons for what happened with the way things were going with Bitmonero.

The dev disappeared for days at a time, did not even acknowledge feedback, and the OP still looks like a pre-ANN so newbies have no idea what to do or how to mine. This is much more decentralized and transparent, with bounties raised for the shortcomings of CN coin that affect MRO and BCN alike (GUI, open-source pool). This is what progress looks like to me. And I think that's acknowledged by the fact that even discounting the last 24 hr increase in hashpower, Monero still has the highest number of miners in CryptoNote.
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May 07, 2014, 08:12:16 PM
 #1050

Guys let's chill a bit:

1. The unopimized proof-of-work code had nothing to do with the monero launch or the rename. It was the same code all the way back to the original public release of the cryptonote code. It may or may not be intentional, who knows. As a programmer I can tell you it is easy to do things like that by accident if you are working quickly and once something passes unit tests, moving on to the next part of the code that needs to be implemented. All I can say is thank you to NoodleDoodle for spotting that, but this is how it is supposed to work with open source.

2. Please drop or at least tone down the paranoia about bot nets, huge server farms. Any coin that is as successful as this one (take a look at the price graph) is going to attract a lot intelligent miners. To not mine this coin is foolish, and there are plenty of people who own computers who are not foolish. We are still at around 5000 computers total which is not a "huge" anything.

Let's all work toward building Monero! We're still in the (very) early launch phase here.

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May 07, 2014, 08:23:56 PM
Last edit: May 07, 2014, 08:34:12 PM by trogdorjw73
 #1051



Ok. Seems quite lame indeed....

Good, I'm sorry if it was disproportional.

My main questions were about skyrocket difficulty, a potentially unfair optimized miners, and an unfair take-over-control procedure.

As the miner is open-source now, and the difficulty chart can't be explained anyhow, the only one to ask you is how did it happen with the renaming and cloning the git.
There's nothing surprising about a skyrocketing difficulty for a CPU-only coin. This EXACT SAME THING happened with Heavycoin (HVC), Darkcoin, Frozencoin, and various others as well. Let me give you a quick bit of math.

Mining on an i7-4770K CPU right now, if you mine DRK you'll earn about $0.15 per day. Mine HIRO (DRK without DarkSend) and you can make $0.30 per day right now. XPM is similar in that it's around $0.27 per day. And then we get to Monero (MRO), which at the current high bid price of 0.0009 BTC per MRO will generate approximately $1.67 per day. Now, you have to give it time, as you're not going to find blocks very frequently with a single i7-4770K, but for example I have enough mining rigs that I'm able to run around 150 H/s and I'm finding a block or two per day. The pay rate for MRO right now is so much higher than any other "CPU only" coin that anyone with access to a bunch of CPUs is going to take notice. Period. End of conspiracy.

TL;DR: You're not the only person mining crypto. Duh.

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May 07, 2014, 08:24:19 PM
 #1052


2. if you were a botnet owner and spent money (a lot I assume), would you direct your botnet to a month old cryptocurrency. Or would you direct it at coins already proven to be valuable with exchanges. Botnet owners I think are more like banks, they care more about short term profits than long term value. such a resource would not be chanced on an extremely speculative coin (more so than the rest). how many new coins come out, and how many are successful. I am sure botnet owners measure and weigh risk and profit differently than small players. It would in my mind an asic developer investing resources now for this coin when it has just come out of the gates.


This point is very often underestimated. Botnets are a limited and valuable resource to their owners and there are far, far more profitable things you can do with them than mine a 3-week-old CPU coin. Since they're eventually detected and destroyed, it makes sense to maximize their utility during their limited lifetime.

By the way, diff is actually falling right now. The farm or whatever it was likely changed its mind.
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May 07, 2014, 08:30:46 PM
 #1053

What is going on with this coin? There is no way it got 10 times as many users as it had last week.

Either someone is GPU mining or there is a botnet.

Both of these issues are horrible for this coin. I do not see a future for this coin unless they can stop both of these things from happening.


I liked this coin but now I have to stop mining because it will take 10 days to find a block... then maybe in 5 days the difficulty doubles... then it'll take 20 days to find a block... etc... and I will never find any more blocks.


It is definitely worth pointing a botnet at this coin. It has a bright future and the person who is abusing this coin is going to make millions.

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May 07, 2014, 08:35:27 PM
 #1054

As the miner is open-source now, and the difficulty chart can't be explained anyhow, the only one to ask you is how did it happen with the renaming and cloning the git.

There was no takeover. The original developer (who himself did a fork of bytecoin and around a dozen lines of code changes) was non-responsive and had disappeared. The original name had been cybersquatted all over the place (since the original developer did not even register any domain name much less create a web site), making it impossible to even create a suitably named web site. A bunch of us who didn't want to see the coin die who represented a huge share of the hash power and ownership of the coin decided to adopt it. We reached out to the original developer to participate in this community effort and he still didn't respond over 24 hours, so we decided to act to save the coin from neglect and actively work toward building the coin.

Eventually the original developer came back and now wants to work with the community. I hope you work with us as well. Let's let this one go and move forward with a great coin.





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May 07, 2014, 10:48:24 PM
 #1055

I don't mind the 'relaunch' or the merge-mining fork or any other new coin at all. It's inevitable that the CryptoNote progresses like scrypt into a giant mess of coins. It's not undesirable or 'wrong'. Clones fighting out among themselves is actually beneficial for Monero. Although one of them is clearly unserious and trolling by choosing the same name.
I share this view.

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May 07, 2014, 11:36:04 PM
Last edit: May 07, 2014, 11:48:06 PM by David Latapie
 #1056

Good, I'm sorry if it was disproportional.
I think we all had a bad day because of this FUD attack.

My main questions were about skyrocket difficulty, a potentially unfair optimized miners, and an unfair take-over-control procedure.

As the miner is open-source now, and the difficulty chart can't be explained anyhow, the only one to ask you is how did it happen with the renaming and cloning the git.
Skyrocketing difficulty: it was not us, but none of us (us = the habitués of IRC, the "team") cannot give evidence that it was not us. So this all about trust. Notice the difficulty dropped not long after Noodle released the code. <conspiracy>Of course, we can imagine that Noodle release a different code than the one he was actually using and is just pretending to be the nice guy.</conspiracy>. More believable assumption is that someone else noticed the correction and corrected them but did not say it (à la ArtForz).

Unfair optimized miner: Well, now the code is release, this is passé (I am not implying it was unfair at any moment, save for Noodle testing - I just say that since the code is release, this is not worth debatting it anymore). Notice though that for a long time, the Windows code was twice slower than the Unix one.

Unfair take-over procedure. Public announcement on the forum hours in advances, public voting on IRC with a votebot. Sure, a lot of people who are in monero now were not there at the moment, but this is inevitable, especially for a renaming. If it was for something recurring, like election, there would other opportunities, but here there is not. I dont like the word "bitcoin" but well, it will "grow on me" (the CEO of Nike did not like the Nike logo when it was proposed - but it grew on him).

I hope my answers address your question. If not, don't hesitate to ask more.

Rias, I don't think there is any intentional deception on part of the dev team. Most of what you've pointed out was simply the result of hasty decision making. I know this because I was present for much of it. For example, when the coin was renamed, tacotime, smooth, eizh, david, myself and maybe 2 or 3 other people voted on it. You can say we were being "secretive", but at the time we pretty much were the only stakeholders and accounted for the vast majority of MRO's hashrate. Edit: It's also worth noting that a public naming discussion was attempted, but only resulted in a domain race.:
Yes, this actually what convinced me to do it on the forum. Someone just registered bitmonero(.org or .com, I don't remember) and bitmone.ro.

I have little reason to defend MRO as I've stated plenty that I think it has long term flaws and some important decisions were hastily made that I personally witnessed on irc. However, I'm pretty certain there is no foul play involved and these folks took a lot of care to make the launch as fair as possible.

As Wikipedia says: "assume good faith" Smiley

Could you remind me of these flaws you perceived? I honestly don't remember.

and the OP still looks like a pre-ANN so newbies have no idea what to do or how to mine
Original complaint for information.

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May 07, 2014, 11:47:55 PM
 #1057

It's not completely pointless, the tx_extra field with low fee blockchain can allow you to upload information. They can do things like Mastercoin w/ colored coins.

I won't be supporting it, but it's not totally pointless -- competition will make the best of us all.
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May 07, 2014, 11:52:07 PM
 #1058

I liked this coin but now I have to stop mining because it will take 10 days to find a block... then maybe in 5 days the difficulty doubles... then it'll take 20 days to find a block... etc... and I will never find any more blocks.
You can 1) be patient 2) mine another coin until the pool delivers (should not be long) 3) buy MRO.

These options are not mutually exclusive (especially if you have several computers).

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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May 07, 2014, 11:58:16 PM
 #1059

A checkpoint has been added

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/b27f060815a5fc3dde224f42d5ba9c6f2db5d2c0

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 08, 2014, 12:01:04 AM
 #1060

Code:
Error: refresh failed: daemon is busy. Please try later. Blocks received: 0

Are you as tired of it as I am? I finally found the solution (after losing around three days of mining):

Mine from the daemon, even on your local machine! (the one with the wallet).

Don't mine from the wallet, only use it for checking your balance. Plus, by forgetting about wallet mining altogether, people have less thing to remember => easier learning.

(Unix)
Code:
./bitmonerod <MRO_address> <number_of_threads>
(Windows)
Code:
bitmonerod.exe <MRO_address> <number_of_threads>

If you can confirm it works for you (enter refresh on your wallet and you don't have the dreaded red message anymore), then I will update the http://monero.cc/getting-started.

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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