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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4669980 times)
G2M
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February 19, 2015, 06:28:48 PM
 #20001

Good question. Probably less than 3.

I'll ask!

Wind picked up: F4BC1F4BC0A2A1C4

banditryandloot goin2mars kbm keyboard-mash theusualstuff

probably a few more that don't matter for much.
GingerAle
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February 19, 2015, 06:32:33 PM
 #20002

Good question. Probably less than 3.

I'll ask!

yeah, I have an account there but no XMR so I couldn't attempt a transfer.

< Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > <<< [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1qomqt/what_a_landmark_legal_case_from_mid1700s_scotland/] What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! @@@@ FUCK ALL THE PROFITEERS! PROOF OF WORK OR ITS A SCAM !!! @@@@
nioc
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February 19, 2015, 06:43:25 PM
 #20003

Last time I withdrew was after the per Kb fees were instituted and their withdrawal fees had remained at 0.1 and the mixin was 1.

Have the fees been increased and if so is it due to an increased mixin?

equipoise
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February 19, 2015, 07:48:15 PM
 #20004

Damn! TX Fee: 0.5 XMR  on poloniex.

Can some dev talk to them to lower the fee?

I doubt they're doing it for profit.

That's what it costs them.

They didn't update for tx fee scaling, and large sized transactions require multiple blocks and multiple transactions of .1 XMR. Apparently that number adds up to .5 XMR, which would mean that they're dealing with an average user taking five transactions to withdraw. Likely the increase in fee is going to be because they're trying to implement a higher mixin withdraw feature.

Are people mining to their exchange addresses?

Also, why don't you just go ahead and ask them to lower the fee? I'll ask too. Not sure if anything will come out of it, but it doesn't hurt to ask them directly.
Mining to poloniex address should be the reason for the 0.5 fee they had to set for mixing of 3. I just took a look at my last withdraw (with the lower fee and mixing of 1 few days ago) and there are a lot of 0.0005 - 0.7 inputs. Some of those could account to poloniex change when sending transactions, but most of it seems to be mining to poloniex. Maybe they could implement an internal procedure to consolidate their hot wallet from time to time and this could lower the fees. They could do the consolidation with mixing of 1 and fees could become even lower.

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[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency: 4AyRmUcxzefB5quumzK3HNE4zmCiGc8vhG6fE1oJpGVyVZF7fvDgSpt3MzgLfQ6Q1719xQhmfkM9Z2u NXgDMqYhjJVmc6KX
G2M
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February 19, 2015, 08:05:04 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2015, 08:16:46 PM by G2M
 #20005

Damn! TX Fee: 0.5 XMR  on poloniex.

Can some dev talk to them to lower the fee?

I doubt they're doing it for profit.

That's what it costs them.

They didn't update for tx fee scaling, and large sized transactions require multiple blocks and multiple transactions of .1 XMR. Apparently that number adds up to .5 XMR, which would mean that they're dealing with an average user taking five transactions to withdraw. Likely the increase in fee is going to be because they're trying to implement a higher mixin withdraw feature.

Are people mining to their exchange addresses?

Also, why don't you just go ahead and ask them to lower the fee? I'll ask too. Not sure if anything will come out of it, but it doesn't hurt to ask them directly.
Mining to poloniex address should be the reason for the 0.5 fee they had to set for mixing of 3. I just took a look at my last withdraw (with the lower fee and mixing of 1 few days ago) and there are a lot of 0.0005 - 0.7 inputs. Some of those could account to poloniex change when sending transactions, but most of it seems to be mining to poloniex. Maybe they could implement an internal procedure to consolidate their hot wallet from time to time and this could lower the fees. They could do the consolidation with mixing of 1 and fees could become even lower.

I would have to agree here .. without even looking at the blockchain, the only reason I can see for having to deal with .5 xmr tx fees is because of mining to the exchange address.

I might consider going the same route that bter did with dust btc deposits - don't credit them until a certain amount.

Only with monero, I wouldn't credit deposits under a certain amount.

If you need someone to hold on to a single penny worth of Monero more than one time a week, then I think it's insane to accomodate these people.

I'd keep any deposits of <1 XMR for myself, which right now is around a quarter, and not even count them toward an accumulation.

What's happening right now is that nobody wants to pay the transaction fees. Pools don't want to pay it, people don't want to pay it, and I'm guessing plx has been footing that bill, and miners aren't setting up and managing their own wallets.

Having a minimum deposit would economically motivate people to not deposit anything less than a quarter into a live trading account, which is not a bank account, even though it's been used that way.

Imagine walking into your bank and depositing a nickel every few hours.

I'd bet they'd get pretty pissed and probably tell you to shove off and come back when you've got more than a few dollars.

I went with this idea, because there's no way for them to reject the transactions, and no reason not to.

What I don't know is if it's legal for them to instate a minimum deposit that's not cumulative, if they're on that route.

Additionally, the additional wallet management by the miners would add to network security somewhat.

Or, possibly better: Stop subsidizing the same people that brought on the high fees anyways. assuming plx isn't also a mining syndicate, they're just passing all these tx fees right back to the miners who deposit 5 cents at a time anyways. Not bright. Rather than passing these costs onto the rest of the network and standard users, they should increase the trading fee for these types of accounts. If they want to use it as a bank account - charge them like it's a bank account and raise their trading fees up to 1 or 2%, rather than sub 1%. At least then they'd stand to profit. Again, not sure about legality.

Wind picked up: F4BC1F4BC0A2A1C4

banditryandloot goin2mars kbm keyboard-mash theusualstuff

probably a few more that don't matter for much.
smooth
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February 19, 2015, 08:34:45 PM
 #20006

They didn't update for tx fee scaling

If they did update for fee scaling it might cost them even more since their transactions are often so large they get split, which means >20 KB (although if they don't, they will eventually find these large payments taking a very long time to confirm, or not confirming at all)

In all likelihood the only way to get the withdrawal fee lowered is to get them to institute a deposit fee (both shifting some of the costs for small dusty deposits and discouraging them), which might be a hard sell because it would require coding.

forevernoob
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February 19, 2015, 08:46:56 PM
 #20007

There needs to be a decent mixing count in order to increase the anonymity of the network.

Why can't they implement an option where you can choose mixin count yourself?


Personally I have no need for such a high mixin count on Poloniex. Why should I pay extra for increased privacy that I don't need?
If I send XMR to myself via simplewallet I can choose mixin count. Seems logical that Poloniex would allow me to as well.
At least lower it, 3 seems a bit high.

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February 19, 2015, 08:50:12 PM
 #20008

There needs to be a decent mixing count in order to increase the anonymity of the network.

Why can't they implement an option where you can choose mixin count yourself?


Personally I have no need for such a high mixin count on Poloniex. Why should I pay extra for increased privacy that I don't need?
If I send XMR to myself via simplewallet I can choose mixin count. Seems logical that Poloniex would allow me to as well.
At least lower it, 3 seems a bit high.


AFAIK if there are many transactions with a high mixin the overall anon of xmr rises.

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
forevernoob
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February 19, 2015, 08:57:34 PM
 #20009

Personally I have no need for such a high mixin count on Poloniex. Why should I pay extra for increased privacy that I don't need?
If I send XMR to myself via simplewallet I can choose mixin count. Seems logical that Poloniex would allow me to as well.
At least lower it, 3 seems a bit high.


AFAIK if there are many transactions with a high mixin the overall anon of xmr rises.

Yes I understand that.
But it's voluntary to contribute to this added "anon" right? Otherwise what would be the point in allowing people to set mixin 0 in simplewallet?

Maybe Poloniex could allow people to lower it but having a minimum mixin of 1? That would be a good compromise.

onemorebtc
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February 19, 2015, 08:59:48 PM
 #20010

Personally I have no need for such a high mixin count on Poloniex. Why should I pay extra for increased privacy that I don't need?
If I send XMR to myself via simplewallet I can choose mixin count. Seems logical that Poloniex would allow me to as well.
At least lower it, 3 seems a bit high.


AFAIK if there are many transactions with a high mixin the overall anon of xmr rises.

Yes I understand that.
But it's voluntary to contribute to this added "anon" right? Otherwise what would be the point in allowing people to set mixin 0 in simplewallet?

Maybe Poloniex could allow people to lower it but having a minimum mixin of 1? That would be a good compromise.

i see your point, but: no, withdraws from an exchange is not voluntary. remember: you only on coins if you own the privkeys?

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
forevernoob
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February 19, 2015, 09:03:45 PM
 #20011

i see your point, but: no, withdraws from an exchange is not voluntary. remember: you only on coins if you own the privkeys?

Yeah you are right about that. Poloniex can do whatever they want. But it would good for business if they implemented an option where you could change the mixin count.
Otherwise they might lose customers.

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February 19, 2015, 09:12:20 PM
 #20012

i see your point, but: no, withdraws from an exchange is not voluntary. remember: you only on coins if you own the privkeys?

Yeah you are right about that. Poloniex can do whatever they want. But it would good for business if they implemented an option where you could change the mixin count.
Otherwise they might lose customers.


When everyone was given the option to chose their mix-in, most were using the lowest which was dragging the anonymity of everyone, so I'm happy with decision. AFAIK the devs asked them to change it and the gui is being set with a similar base setting. Somone please correct me if I am mistaken; I like having the facts set correctly in my mind.

smooth
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February 19, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
 #20013

All of these mixin/anonymity issues are discussed in MRL-0001 but the math might be a bit much if you aren't so inclined. The tldr is that mixin=0 and mixin=1 cause problems with anonymity on the network (not just for that particular transaction), are discouraged, and will eventually be prohibited (except under very narrow conditions to ensure that coins can't become unspendable).
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February 19, 2015, 09:57:02 PM
 #20014

mixin=0 and mixin=1 cause problems with anonymity on the network (not just for that particular transaction), are discouraged, and will eventually be prohibited

Is that 0 and 1 in chainradar terms ? That is, mixin 0 (no signatures from outputs you're not actually spending) in simplewallet terms would still be accepted ?
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February 19, 2015, 09:59:34 PM
 #20015

mixin=0 and mixin=1 cause problems with anonymity on the network (not just for that particular transaction), are discouraged, and will eventually be prohibited

Is that 0 and 1 in chainradar terms ? That is, mixin 0 (no signatures from outputs you're not actually spending) in simplewallet terms would still be accepted ?

chainradar uses 1 and 2 for what simplwallet calls 0 and 1. I'm using the simplewallet terminology.

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February 19, 2015, 10:02:19 PM
 #20016

mixin=0 and mixin=1 cause problems with anonymity on the network (not just for that particular transaction), are discouraged, and will eventually be prohibited

Is that 0 and 1 in chainradar terms ? That is, mixin 0 (no signatures from outputs you're not actually spending) in simplewallet terms would still be accepted ?

chainradar uses 1 and 2 for what simplwallet calls 0 and 1. I'm using the simplewallet terminology.



Chainradar needs to cut that out.
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February 19, 2015, 10:02:33 PM
 #20017

What would be great is a "send btc using xmr.to" option in mymonero.
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February 19, 2015, 10:08:36 PM
 #20018

Before the long term solution explained by smooth is deployed, we could find a shorter term one. Currently the reason for people to choose mixin less than 3 is that it's cheaper. What if it was not? Fees in that case would be based on kb, but also on the fact that it's a little privacy cost to everyone.

Monero's privacy and therefore fungibility are MUCH stronger than Bitcoin's. 
This makes Monero a better candidate to deserve the term "digital cash".
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February 19, 2015, 10:08:42 PM
 #20019

Coming from someone that has way more Monero than the 20 btc necessary to drop the order book 50% and keep it there, you guys have no idea what you are talking about.

You guys collectively barely have enough bitcoin to buy Monero at firesale prices if I chose to do that, the auto dumping miners would simply hop in front of the remaining parts of my gigantic sell order at .0005btc and keep this downtrend going, while somebody makes an off hand comment about emission schedule

And lets not forget about the upside, anybody want to form a syndicate and get the price back up with a stabilizing bid? PM me

Its about 200k xmr to 0.0005. Feel free to dump at any Time.

Please dump, so i can buy at that price. Grin

noooo this uptrend makes me feel good  Cheesy

Same, uptrend is making me feel good as well since my BTC is gone and i cannot accumulate any more, I might sell a tiny bit XMR on spikes and buy back cheaper.
MoneroMooo
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February 19, 2015, 10:09:24 PM
 #20020

chainradar uses 1 and 2 for what simplwallet calls 0 and 1. I'm using the simplewallet terminology.

I thought mixin 0 was deemed a good thing to have, for transactions that one wants to be unambiguous in terms of inputs used. Was that wrong then, or is it just deemed not worth the drawbacks ?
How would non ambiguous txes be done then ? Supply the one time key to whoever you want to see it ?
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