[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Hueristic]

We need to really chalk out a funding plan. Donations are not going to keep the ship sailing

Funny, I just posted this.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=753252.msg10702454#msg10702454

[1715222860]

1715222860

[GingerAle]

We need to really chalk out a funding plan. Donations are not going to keep the ship sailing

define: "funding" . Funds are usually used to pay people to do things. Why does monero need to pay people to do things? Because there is a lot to do? And paying people to do things get them to focus? IMO, monero is more organic than that, but thats a different topic.

But what is there to do?

All outlined here: https://getmonero.org/design-goals/

Now, can you do any of these things? If the answer is yes, then great - you probably already know how to use github and you can go code stuff.

If the answer is no, then one could immediately jump to the conclusion that you must increase funding in order to create incentive for those that can code to go make awesome happen in github.

However, if you believe that time=money and money=time, then you can conclude that "funding" can also occur in the form of "time".

Thus, if you are not a programmer and can't contribute to core development, then one can "fund" monero by doing stuff for core devs that they would have to do if no one else does it, thus taking time away from core development.

Case in point:

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/

currently blank. How does one fill it?

https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/knowledge-base/user-guides

thats the github site for the getmonero.org website, so you can directly make stuff to fill the blank pages.

Also, case in point, we still have yet to find a way to transcribe the monero missives in a timely manner. Because no one stepped up to do it, some of the core-dev team used their time to start transcribing the one last week. This is time that could have spent staring at the crazy cryptonote codebase with pals json and rpi and ipc and whatever.

So literally, you could "fund" monero simply by listening to the podcasts and writing down what you hear.

I started a github for that here:

https://github.com/Gingeropolous/MoneroMissiveTranscribe

So yes - one route to increase the amount of resources available for core development is to increase funding. But in the absence of the capital to do so, another route is to increase the amount of time available for core development by offloading non-core activities.

[Joshuar]

Two broader thoughts that have come up in discussions elsewhere.

1.) Luke-Jr stated the other day that he foresees ring signature functionality being implemented into Bitcoin in 2-3 years. My response was that even if that actually happens, it wouldn't have a mandatory mix-in level, limiting the anonymity capabilities that Bitcoin could offer with it. However, I've heard others state that you actually wouldn't need a mandatory mix-in level for it to impart "good enough" anonymity for it to kill interest in anything else. Regardless of whether this is true or not, it does sound like something that could steal some remaining thunder from the anonymity-niche coins, given that Bitcoin already has a huge market share.

2.) I've had discussions recently with Bitcoin maximalists who claim that anything built on an altchain cannot succeed, because Bitcoin's blockchain will remain by far the longest chain, and any other altcoin based on a PoW altchain that *ever* begins to compete with Bitcoin for market share will cause interested parties to attack it with the magnitudes of greater resources that are behind the Bitcoin network. My thought on this was that given that Monero uses a different hashing algorithm than Bitcoin, the resources behind Bitcoin couldn't be redirected at Monero in any direct sense (especially if the predominant resources behind Bitcoin are ASICs). Now, that isn't to say that there couldn't *still* be enough incentive involved, if Monero ever became more popular, for Bitcoin supporters to attack Monero by devoting fresh resources/energy to attack it. Thoughts?

1) Isn't going to happen for a long list of reasons. That's precisely why the topic of sidechains arouse with some xbt members.

2) Possible, but I doubt it, especially when investing into Monero itself is an "easier" way of ensuring you win no matter what.

[tacotime]

Two broader thoughts that have come up in discussions elsewhere.

1.) Luke-Jr stated the other day that he foresees ring signature functionality being implemented into Bitcoin in 2-3 years. My response was that even if that actually happens, it wouldn't have a mandatory mix-in level, limiting the anonymity capabilities that Bitcoin could offer with it. However, I've heard others state that you actually wouldn't need a mandatory mix-in level for it to impart "good enough" anonymity for it to kill interest in anything else. Regardless of whether this is true or not, it does sound like something that could steal some remaining thunder from the anonymity-niche coins, given that Bitcoin already has a huge market share.

2-3 years is optimistic for a blockchain that's been bickering over the size of blocks for years now. And yes, you do need minimum mixin levels to make the system secure, although there are ways of doing that within a Bitcoin softfork. However, this presents the problem of money going from non-anonymous addresses to anonymous addresses, which makes blacklisting/censorship really easy (CoinBase can see your output entered into a ring signature output and ban you). Blacklisting in Monero will be impossible.

This is exactly why gmaxwell and andytoshi proposed their Bitcoin sidechain, which uses BRS (Bytecoin Ring Signatures), much like Monero, but using Bitcoin. However, it's likely that the majority of Monero will already be distributed by the time this is released (if ever), and at that point channels to and from Bitcoin, along with much better liquidity, should already exist.

2.) I've had discussions recently with Bitcoin maximalists who claim that anything built on an altchain cannot succeed, because Bitcoin's blockchain will remain by far the longest chain, and any other altcoin based on a PoW altchain that *ever* begins to compete with Bitcoin for market share will cause interested parties to attack it with the magnitudes of greater resources that are behind the Bitcoin network. My thought on this was that given that Monero uses a different hashing algorithm than Bitcoin, the resources behind Bitcoin couldn't be redirected at Monero in any direct sense (especially if the predominant resources behind Bitcoin are ASICs). Now, that isn't to say that there couldn't *still* be enough incentive involved, if Monero ever became more popular, for Bitcoin supporters to attack Monero by devoting fresh resources/energy to attack it. Thoughts?

The Bitcoin shills are always going to say that nothing will be better than Bitcoin, because all their money is in Bitcoin.

Monero is different. Monero is digital cash, whereas Bitcoin is a hybrid equity-wiring service. Bitcoin has a fixed distribution amount and transparency amongst investors. Conversely, Monero inflationary, like real cash, with a small distribution period of approximately five years as basically an "ICO". It can be spent with privacy, like real cash. They're different entities, with a different promise.

[dewdeded]

Sorry for newbie question: Moneroj is the (official?) plural for the term Monero, right?

So Moneroj is the term/word, we should(?) use to mean/describe multiple XMR coins?

Is there an alternative? Maybe Moneros?

I think marketing and explaining Moneroj, will turn out rather difficult. The general public is not used to build plurals with a J (Esperanto-style.)

[nachoig]

Sorry for newbie question: Moneroj is the (official?) plural for the term Monero, right?

So Moneroj is the term/word, we should(?) use to mean/describe multiple XMR coins?

Is there an alternative? Maybe Moneros?

I think marketing and explaining Moneroj, will turn out rather difficult. The general public is not used to build plurals with a J (Esperanto-style.)

Monero is the currency. If you are referring to the currency, the first letter is capitalized. In the plural form, you call it moneroj. You can use moneros if you want. However, in Esperanto's ortographic rules says you should add a "j" in the plural formal, instead of a "s". Personally I prefer to use "moneroj".

This is an interesting case which shows the difference between a planified language and a non-planified language. But the name Monero is great because is more neutral, it removes the Englishism of the coins' names.

PS: looking from this perspective, the address of the new website looks bad.

[smooth]

Conversely, Monero inflationary, like real cash, with a small distribution period of approximately five years as basically an "ICO". It can be spent with privacy, like real cash. They're different entities, with a different promise.

This part isn't much different from Bitcoin. Roughly 90% of the base supply will be distributed in 5 years. Roughly 90% of Bitcoin's supply will be distributed in about 13 years. Both are relatively short periods of time for a currency, especially with Bitcoin being 6 years in at this point already.

[Joshuar]

Sorry for newbie question: Moneroj is the (official?) plural for the term Monero, right?

So Moneroj is the term/word, we should(?) use to mean/describe multiple XMR coins?

Is there an alternative? Maybe Moneros?

I think marketing and explaining Moneroj, will turn out rather difficult. The general public is not used to build plurals with a J (Esperanto-style.)

Monero is the currency. If you are referring to the currency, the first letter is capitalized. In the plural form, you call it moneroj. You can use moneros if you want. However, in Esperanto's ortographic rules says you should add a "j" in the plural formal, instead of a "s". Personally I prefer to use "moneroj".

This is an interesting case which shows the difference between a planified language and a non-planified language. But the name Monero is great because is more neutral, it removes the Englishism of the coins' names.

PS: looking from this perspective, the address of the new website looks bad.

Hmm, I often use "Moneroj" to sort of pay homage to Monero's roots(Being an Esperanto word), plus it looks kinda cool/different.

[fluffypony]

This is an interesting case which shows the difference between a planified language and a non-planified language. But the name Monero is great because is more neutral, it removes the Englishism of the coins' names.

PS: looking from this perspective, the address of the new website looks bad.

We're open to transitioning to something else in future, but you could argue that we will never get away from "Englishisms" on a domain basis. The .com / .net / .org TLDs are all based on English words (company, network, organisation). Even worse - I've been accused by an American of being deceptive by having a South African company own a .com (even though we do business all over the world), because he reckoned that only American companies should own .com TLDs, so weird perceptions definitely exist:)

[Shrikez]

We need to really chalk out a funding plan. Donations are not going to keep the ship sailing

define: "funding" . Funds are usually used to pay people to do things. Why does monero need to pay people to do things? Because there is a lot to do? And paying people to do things get them to focus? IMO, monero is more organic than that, but thats a different topic.

But what is there to do?

All outlined here: https://getmonero.org/design-goals/

Now, can you do any of these things? If the answer is yes, then great - you probably already know how to use github and you can go code stuff.

If the answer is no, then one could immediately jump to the conclusion that you must increase funding in order to create incentive for those that can code to go make awesome happen in github.

However, if you believe that time=money and money=time, then you can conclude that "funding" can also occur in the form of "time".

Thus, if you are not a programmer and can't contribute to core development, then one can "fund" monero by doing stuff for core devs that they would have to do if no one else does it, thus taking time away from core development.

Case in point:

https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/user-guides/

currently blank. How does one fill it?

https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/knowledge-base/user-guides

thats the github site for the getmonero.org website, so you can directly make stuff to fill the blank pages.

Also, case in point, we still have yet to find a way to transcribe the monero missives in a timely manner. Because no one stepped up to do it, some of the core-dev team used their time to start transcribing the one last week. This is time that could have spent staring at the crazy cryptonote codebase with pals json and rpi and ipc and whatever.

So literally, you could "fund" monero simply by listening to the podcasts and writing down what you hear.

I started a github for that here:

https://github.com/Gingeropolous/MoneroMissiveTranscribe

So yes - one route to increase the amount of resources available for core development is to increase funding. But in the absence of the capital to do so, another route is to increase the amount of time available for core development by offloading non-core activities.

+100, well said Ginger!

Something along these lines would make a great addition to getmonero.org as well, maybe add a page "How can I contribute to Monero" and outline the different possibilities.

So far I was only able to do lowly footsoldier stuff like creating seed lists in different languages but I am working on acquiring the necessary skills to do more.
My motivation is obviously fueled by my desire to see Monero succeed but it also is an incentive to learn something new.

So don't go and say "this is too hard for me"...dive into it headlong and emerge with new skills!

[dewdeded]

XMR should be at LiteBit.eu (https://www.litebit.eu/), they sell altcoins for FIAT currency (USD, Euro, Pounds).
It's a legal and registered company in the Netherlands.

Two or three people should contact them today (contact field & email) ask friendly. And then we see what they respond and how we can work on this.

[Shrikez]

XMR should be at LiteBit.eu (https://www.litebit.eu/), they sell altcoins for FIAT currency (USD, Euro, Pounds).
It's a legal and registered company in the Netherlands.

Two or three people should contact them today (contact field & email) ask friendly. And then we see what they respond and how we can work on this.

I wrote them a little piece, thanks for the information.

[pa]

Can/should "threshold" signatures be implemented in Monero? (See http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ycfh4/threshold_signatures_for_bitcoin_wallets_are/)

[smooth]

Can/should "threshold" signatures be implemented in Monero? (See http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ycfh4/threshold_signatures_for_bitcoin_wallets_are/)

Yes that's exactly what has been mentioned by tacotime a few times, most recently here:

(7) An implicit, silent multisig implementation centered around Schnorr signatures is being researched and developed (thanks andytoshi/gmaxwell).

[pa]

Can/should "threshold" signatures be implemented in Monero? (See http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ycfh4/threshold_signatures_for_bitcoin_wallets_are/)

Yes that's exactly what has been mentioned by tacotime a few times, most recently here:

(7) An implicit, silent multisig implementation centered around Schnorr signatures is being researched and developed (thanks andytoshi/gmaxwell).

It's great to see the XMR devs working at the cutting edge of crypto-currency engineering.

[smooth]

Can/should "threshold" signatures be implemented in Monero? (See http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ycfh4/threshold_signatures_for_bitcoin_wallets_are/)

Yes that's exactly what has been mentioned by tacotime a few times, most recently here:

(7) An implicit, silent multisig implementation centered around Schnorr signatures is being researched and developed (thanks andytoshi/gmaxwell).

It's great to see the XMR devs working at the cutting edge of crypto-currency engineering.

To be fair the real work is credited above but we are certainly interested in it and following it.

[coomme]

hi

how to upgrade my wallet from Version 0.8.8.1 to Version 0.8.8.6 ??

now, when I open 0.8.8.6 simplewallet, its auto closed....

[NeuroticFish]

hi

how to upgrade my wallet from Version 0.8.8.1 to Version 0.8.8.6 ??

now, when I open 0.8.8.6 simplewallet, its auto closed....

I think that you also have to update the daemon.
After running the latest bitmonerod.exe you should be fine.

[wpalczynski]

+100, well said Ginger!

Something along these lines would make a great addition to getmonero.org as well, maybe add a page "How can I contribute to Monero" and outline the different possibilities.

So far I was only able to do lowly footsoldier stuff like creating seed lists in different languages but I am working on acquiring the necessary skills to do more.
My motivation is obviously fueled by my desire to see Monero succeed but it also is an incentive to learn something new.

So don't go and say "this is too hard for me"...dive into it headlong and emerge with new skills!

Great post and attitude.

[Hueristic]

Can someone explain Tether USD to me? I see it on POLO now so I'm wondering if it's easier/safer/faster for buying xmr with fiat?

Waiting 4 days for coinbase and then transferring to polo then buying is just a real pita.

Any other alternatives without buying private with escrow?

Looking for the easiest fastest and of course safe way to buy. What are you guys using now?

Coinbase is in big brothers pocket now.