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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4666803 times)
rpietila
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October 25, 2014, 07:31:25 PM
 #16101

All I'm saying is that you have a window of opportunity and it's much less than three years.

We are on the same page here. That's why when something brilliant comes up, it must be executed swiftly, and fluently.

Eg. We have spent months to form consensus that the emission must be cut. Once the vote affirms that there actually is a consensus (you never know until ballots are counted), we will not wait another month for execution.

But pricewise, anyone who cannot concentrate on the (technical and economic) development for 3 years and totally forget the price, no matter if it goes to zero meanwhile or not, as long as it will succeed in the end, is in a "wrong place" Smiley

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October 25, 2014, 07:32:19 PM
 #16102

Price is lowest in history of Monero.

No its not. I sold 100 coins for 0.005 (price = 0.00005)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577296.0

L'OL

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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October 25, 2014, 07:32:53 PM
 #16103

Price is lowest in history of Monero.

No its not. I sold 100 coins for 0.005 (price = 0.00005)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577296.0
Ha I remember a time when someone was buying BCN for MRO. Price was like 100BCN = 1 MRO. I made a huge mistake in sticking to Bytecoin...

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October 25, 2014, 07:34:16 PM
 #16104

He's saying that he got involved at the top of the market and Bitcoin certainly hasn't "delivered" what he is looking for which is high and increasing prices. So that would be 0/69 at this point.

Get involved at the top of any market and things will look bleak later from that perspective. Quite understandable.

I see, sometimes I drink too much cheap rum and misunderstand things Cheesy

In which case, I highly suggest grabbing a cheap bottle of rum on this beautiful  fall saturday (NE USA for me), have fun and not worry about whether the money's going to have the same non-existant purchasing power it did a year or six months ago!

It sucks to see value go, but the absolutely violent and quick re-emergence of it will be a sight to see. I'd consider that an accomplishment, even if I kept this in the back of my mind for years to come. Sometimes, timeframes are just too narrow I guess.

People just don't churn out new protocols every day.

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
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October 25, 2014, 07:46:05 PM
 #16105

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

Monero is currently almost exclusively owned by people with a horizon of 3 years or more, as was Bitcoin 3 years ago.

Last time the owners were richly rewarded, let's see this time.

I agree with you
Now I can spend a few thousand dollars, while after three years I might have a few million in my pocket.

Several thousand dollars today are nothing to some people

Let's stop people sell their coins and the price will start to grow with every day
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October 25, 2014, 07:47:48 PM
 #16106

 What worked for bitcoin or the history of bitcoin will never be repeated.  But good luck.


you may not have read enough history

History always repeats ... Always
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October 25, 2014, 07:49:16 PM
 #16107

When I first got involved in crypto there were 69 currencies listed on coinmarketcap with a total market cap of $ 13,890,378,655  https://web.archive.org/web/20140104141936/http://coinmarketcap.com/

There are now 545 currencies with a market cap of $ 5,192,835,057.

789% more currencies worth 37% of what 69 were worth January 8th 2014.

All of these currencies offered the moon but delivered nothing.  Why should people think any different of Monero or any other coin?  One thing is for sure, nobody's going to wait three years.






Is it rational to expect the moon though, when only one out of 69 currencies, and now only one out of >545 currencies and a few assets has actually delivered?

Even at the time you started, 1 out of 69 isn't the greatest odds when you're led to believe that everyone is offering only the moon.

Now, at 1 in 545, the chances of offering the moon are much less, if you were to randomly throw money at these things.

When bitcoin started, it offered a cryptocurrency. Investors saw the moon. Chances back then were likely 1 in 1, or even 1 in 5, and the ticket was cheap.

With the complete disregard for the technical offerings of some of these things, and incessant talks about the moon, I have only been left with the thought that everyone here is absolutely irrational. I say irrational, because >99% is basically everyone.

Especially when they're offering, for the most part, something you already have, or think you have, in your bank account .. and tend to think very very little about what it is or where it came from .. just that you need it to live and you need more of it to make more of it.

I mean, there's very few moons out there. Earth has one, Saturn has (62?) moons. So the idea that we're even talking about potentially legitimate alternative cryptocurrencies offering the moon means most of us are on another damn planet in regards to where our heads are at.

With that in mind, I must admit that I likely would have had to pay to be on another planet, as I'm pretty sure I started on earth. so my fee paid is in grabbing a rational amount of just about anything that pokes out of bitcoins shadow and seeing what they did.

I like this one, because the developers were there when I had questions, and have been there when I've had more questions. I'm convinced that they'll continue to be here when I have even more questions. That's important .. that they're here and responsive and helpful, because they've convinced me that they'll likely always be here. That's just as important as innovation, of which they have also provided. Electrum seeds, i2p development, GUI development, core protocol development, seeding a community, there's lists of things that have been provided. Not many of these things were available for the US dollar for a few hundred years, save for seeding a community, so I think we're pretty on track here.

Worst comes to worst, it's just tulips Cheesy

Warning, only fun follows.

Forget about the Earth's Moon, we are talking about Pluto!

The New Horizons spacecraft will be at it's closest on July 14, 2015.  It went into it's last hibernation on Aug. 29th and will wake up on Dec 9. 

Now look at the charts.  Monero was at a high on Aug 29th and it's been downhill from there.  Coincidence?, I think not.  Therefore we can expect an upswing to start on Dec. 9th.  There will be a record high on July 14, 2015 but I'm unsure what it will be.  Happy Bastille Day!
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October 25, 2014, 07:55:56 PM
 #16108

is there someone who can mining monero any profit at these prices

I was already it profitable to buy than to mining

My the electricity is expensive on the number of coins that I get for 1 month

______
I officially stopped mining  Angry
_______

burnbabyburn71
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October 25, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
 #16109

is there someone who can mining monero any profit at these prices

I was already it profitable to buy than to mining

My the electricity is expensive on the number of coins that I get for 1 month

______
I officially stopped mining  Angry
_______



Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

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October 25, 2014, 08:03:02 PM
 #16110

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!
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October 25, 2014, 08:04:52 PM
 #16111

When I first got involved in crypto there were 69 currencies listed on coinmarketcap with a total market cap of $ 13,890,378,655  https://web.archive.org/web/20140104141936/http://coinmarketcap.com/

Is it rational to expect the moon though, when only one out of 69 currencies, and now only one out of >545 currencies and a few assets has actually delivered?

He's saying that he got involved at the top of the market and Bitcoin certainly hasn't "delivered" what he is looking for which is high and increasing prices. So that would be 0/69 at this point.

Get involved at the top of any market and things will look bleak later from that perspective. Quite understandable.


I may have gotten in at the top of the market but I never put anything into it.  I got extremely lucky with some of the coins I mined early.  Most notably Darkcoin and then Bitmonero.  So even in a shrinking market I have done extremely well.  

My point in posting those figures for the growth in currencies while the market cap shrunk was to show the amount of money that has left crypto even though there was an explosion of altcoins offering everything anyone could ever want.  It had nothing to do with my expectations because I didn't have any.
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October 25, 2014, 08:06:10 PM
 #16112

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs (and generally botnets give a lot of CPU power without the host noticing). Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

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October 25, 2014, 08:08:54 PM
 #16113

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
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October 25, 2014, 08:11:13 PM
 #16114

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets

They can't do anything.

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October 25, 2014, 08:15:28 PM
 #16115

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if there are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

and no, there isn't any way for the devs to stop botnets. However they can reduce the emission rate, which would decrease sell pressure causing a more stable and higher price.

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October 25, 2014, 08:17:10 PM
 #16116

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if their are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

why do you think botnet owners would sell immediatly?
i think the opposit is true: a normal miner has to cover costs: he has to sell. a botnet owner get them nearly for free (just a little risk and maybe some cost to buy the botnet in the first lace)

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
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October 25, 2014, 08:19:48 PM
 #16117

Warning, only fun follows.

Forget about the Earth's Moon, we are talking about Pluto!

The New Horizons spacecraft will be at it's closest on July 14, 2015.  It went into it's last hibernation on Aug. 29th and will wake up on Dec 9. 

Now look at the charts.  Monero was at a high on Aug 29th and it's been downhill from there.  Coincidence?, I think not.  Therefore we can expect an upswing to start on Dec. 9th.  There will be a record high on July 14, 2015 but I'm unsure what it will be.  Happy Bastille Day!

LOL Cheesy

Imagine if something like that happens within three days of the 9th!

is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
They can't do anything.

Some people feel that they can, for example people on the Bytecoin thread people have said, and the darknote developers themselves have made the point that the fast emission style creates a situation where botnets are mostly subverted.

Your personal opinion on that, is up to you though.

My personal feeling is that I would rather buy a coin at a higher price from a botnet, than ever buy it at a lower price from the developers and extremely early adopters from having to burden them with distributing the coin cheaply, because I feel that it yields a better distribution method.

Just a personal taste issue I guess, I don't have the capacity to understand why I feel that way. Possibly because they don't either, or at least haven't come here to debate the issue.

And it's only at the end of fall, that we discover it was naught but the wind that knew when one particular leaf was to fall from one particular tree, only to land in one distinct spot .. to be left for an eternity, and waste its time in a wait sublime. C0A2A1C4
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October 25, 2014, 08:21:41 PM
 #16118

Botnet operators don't need to pay for electricity

could you explain a little more?!

A large portion of the Monero global hash rate is made up of botnets. A botnet is "a network of private computers infected with malicious software and controlled as a group without the owners' knowledge,". In this case the botnet operators are using the computers to mine Monero, since Monero is quite profitable to mine with CPUs. Obviously the botnet operators don't need to pay for the electricity, so they will be making a profit no matter what.

this is terrible, by this logic, they can bring the price down to 1 Satoshi


is there a way for developers to prevent this - Botnets
Not really, it doesn't effect the amount of Monero being mined per day. I suppose most of the botnet operators would sell their Monero as soon as they receive it though, which could cause problems. Really it shouldn't be a problem if their are enough people buying. However due to the very high emission rate (the amount of coins mined per day set by the network), there selling pressure is starting to out weight the buying pressure causing the price to decrease a bit.

why do you think botnet owners would sell immediatly?
i think the opposit is true: a normal miner has to cover costs: he has to sell. a botnet owner get them nearly for free (just a little risk and maybe some cost to buy the botnet in the first lace)

Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

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October 25, 2014, 08:24:27 PM
 #16119

Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

miners must maintain their network too and they have additional electricity costs to pay.

would be interesting to see a botnet owner speak up what he pays effective per xmr Wink

but anyhow: i dont think botnets are bad... people need to learn to secure their computers. and people tend to learn better the hard way

transfer 3 onemorebtc.k1024.de 1
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October 25, 2014, 08:24:34 PM
 #16120


Lately the XMR price seems to be in decline anyway, so they sell what they can. Botnet owners still need to maintain their network, which takes time and effort.

and what they do on the issue / large manufacturers of antivirus software /

is there a way largest manufacturers of anti-virus software to work with Monero developers to prevent this Botnet


This for me is a big hole in each operating system - Linux, Apple, Windows and ...
they must have a mechanism to automatically prevent Botnet,
otherwise they are Botnet
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