[ANN] Syscoin - Business on the Blockchain - LAUNCHED!

[slex]

this doesnt make any sense.  why would you want to keep your SYS if the wallet / forks dont get properly fixed?  i guess just dont request a refund, and maybe you can keep them - just not sure why you'd want them if the project is stopped.

Maybe because I don't mind giving more than 48 hours for the devs to resolve issues...  


Edit:  Besides...  Moolah is just providing an escrow service.  If I want my funds released... they should do so.

Our escrow agreement is in relation to the whole package. The agreement did not include any clause in relation to partial release on an investment by investment basis.

[1714676434]

1714676434

[CryptoClub]

this doesnt make any sense.  why would you want to keep your SYS if the wallet / forks dont get properly fixed?  i guess just dont request a refund, and maybe you can keep them - just not sure why you'd want them if the project is stopped.

Maybe because I don't mind giving more than 48 hours for the devs to resolve issues...   

I would rather have a quality coin than some BTC back that will be going sideways at best. Give them a few days, and then be glad with your massive likely win later.

[Yuzu]

Hmmm.  I don't want my money back, but I do believe that those who want a refund should be able to get it now.  I don't believe that an extension of time was in the original agreement.  Just my 2 cents.

[Primitive]

Our escrow agreement is in relation to the whole package. The agreement did not include any clause in relation to partial release on an investment by investment basis.

yes, guys you are wasting your time complaining and appealing for specific remedies.  we all just have to wait. we're all in the same boat, like it or not.

[kelvng105]

Let's say syscoin fixes issues and moolah releases funds and devs abandon coin. Moolah would lose credibility and it would be the official death of mintpal. Your move moolah

If they fix the issues in full, then they have met their side of the bargain. We are not responsible for the long-term stability of the coin; in any way, shape or form. Our role was to be an escrow facilitator, which is what we are doing.

Our plans for MintPal are far greater than a single coin, so yes, we will make our moves as we see fit.

Your answer won't be popular here :-)) and quite understandably why. The 48 hours grace period is based on what, it's your discretion?

Because unlike some people, we are patient; and are giving the Syscoin developers a period of time to fix the issues that have arisen. Had they not made any effort before now, they would not have that grace period. Our agreement with Syscoin includes a window of opportunity for them to fix issues that pop up after launch.

At the end of the day though? Yes, the grace period is at my discretion.

If we end up having to process refunds (either directly, or by throwing up ICO level buy walls), then we will do so accordingly. People need to worry less and stop going "OMG THERE IS ONLY 50 BTC BUY WALL" - that is because we are holding on to the rest.

Now this will mean many would stay away from anything you escrow. And no, I am not the ones who goes "OMG YOU DONE EFFED IT UP". It is what it is. I think it is commendable that you dint bow out so easily and instead gave the devs a chance. But I think 2 days post launch was more than enough 4 days is too much.
And I will ask again, where in the moolah T&C was it mentioned that you could use your discretion when it came to releasing funds?

EDIT: This is to specifically danospehere. You made much noise about how ethereum's T&C condition contained a clause which clearly said people are not going to get their funds even if there is no working code delivered. SYSCOIN was supposed to be different. Given the situation and how moolah is favoring you (and I agree with them to an extent). I think you are worse than ethereum, product delivered or not. You guys have misled people wherein "escrower's" discretion to release funds were not mentioned.

FYI as comparison , Crypti's launched was delayed for weeks and people still haven't complained as much..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654463.0

Bter was much worse than MP ... recent hack. etc.. you should feel safe with Moolah

because they were upfront about the problem and allowed token to be traded? Hell their ICO prices were much lower so anyone not liking the delay can get out cleanly, even at above ICO prices. Not the least, they dint stick a non working wallet and say oh well shit happens.

Yes, but the devs are working on it, give them time! People can give Crypti weeks and can't give SYS team couple days?

[slex]

Our agreement with Syscoin includes a window of opportunity for them to fix issues that pop up after launch.

That will be a surprise to many investors. I am sure you are familiar with the UK commercial law that requires full transparency from the parties when performing escrow type of contracts. It seems to me you failed in that and even the best solicitors won't be able to help you when this case goes to HM Court.

Edit: Plus being biased by taking into the interest of only one party as you clearly do is breach of contract. Better to refund it now, you are digging yourself into a big whole here :-))))

I would recommend you go back to your solicitors, they have provided you with inaccurate information. We have been fully transparent, and are now exercising our authority as a 3rd party mediator. You are welcome to try and scare people by throwing comments such as "UK commercial law" and "HM Court" around, but it won't work with us; you are wasting your time. I am sure you are aware of the intricacies of escrow type contracts in relation to multinational agreements where it is purely asset based with no exchange of currency.

If we were biased - we would have released the coins and not given the Syscoin team this ultimatum.

You are more than welcome to have your solicitor contact us, either myself (for the public record, I have a Law degree - though with a primary focus on the psychological aspects of crime) or a member of our legal counsel will be more than happy to give him a free educational lesson.

You really do know how to win people over to your service, don't you?

I read this and think "I want to do business with this person!!!!"

We will protect investors as per the concept of our escrow agreement, but as per our mediation and arbitration role - will give the developers a window of opportunity to fix issues that occur at launch. They currently have 47 hours remaining before we declare the agreement void as a result of their failure to deliver a product in an acceptable timeframe, and proceed with refunding investors / coin holders.

At this stage, I am not trying to win people over - I am trying to make people clearly understand what we are doing.

[slex]

Hmmm.  I don't want my money back, but I do believe that those who want a refund should be able to get it now.  I don't believe that an extension of time was in the original agreement.  Just my 2 cents.

Our agreement was in relation to an "all or nothing" scenario.

Either the developers release a working platform and get the coins, or they don't and investors get refunded. We have now moved in to the arbitration window of our agreement, and have imposed a 48 hour deadline to resolve the current problems. Had they released nothing before now, they would not have this window, the agreement would have been voided before now. The issues occurred after launch, and that is why they have an extension.

[Bitcycle]

Our agreement with Syscoin includes a window of opportunity for them to fix issues that pop up after launch.

That will be a surprise to many investors. I am sure you are familiar with the UK commercial law that requires full transparency from the parties when performing escrow type of contracts. It seems to me you failed in that and even the best solicitors won't be able to help you when this case goes to HM Court.

Edit: Plus being biased by taking into the interest of only one party as you clearly do is breach of contract. Better to refund it now, you are digging yourself into a big whole here :-))))

I would recommend you go back to your solicitors, they have provided you with inaccurate information. We have been fully transparent, and are now exercising our authority as a 3rd party mediator. You are welcome to try and scare people by throwing comments such as "UK commercial law" and "HM Court" around, but it won't work with us; you are wasting your time. I am sure you are aware of the intricacies of escrow type contracts in relation to multinational agreements where it is purely asset based with no exchange of currency.

If we were biased - we would have released the coins and not given the Syscoin team this ultimatum.

You are more than welcome to have your solicitor contact us, either myself (for the public record, I have a Law degree - though with a primary focus on the psychological aspects of crime) or a member of our legal counsel will be more than happy to give him a free educational lesson.

You really do know how to win people over to your service, don't you?

I read this and think "I want to do business with this person!!!!"

We will protect investors as per the concept of our escrow agreement, but as per our mediation and arbitration role - will give the developers a window of opportunity to fix issues that occur at launch. They currently have 47 hours remaining before we declare the agreement void as a result of their failure to deliver a product in an acceptable timeframe, and proceed with refunding investors / coin holders.

At this stage, I am not trying to win people over - I am trying to make people clearly understand what we are doing.

No, what you were doing was being a condescending asshole.

[youseeberkeley]

You know, SYS is at ipo level atm, just wait till you can send and you can get your refund anyways.

[slex]

Our escrow agreement is in relation to the whole package. The agreement did not include any clause in relation to partial release on an investment by investment basis.

 

It means the following.

One of the two things occurs at launch.

1. They release the coin. There is then an inspection window of 72 hours prior to coin release (this is to make sure everything is working). If everything is fine, the coins get released. If there are issues, we enter in to a mediation/arbitration window in order to see if the problems can be resolved. If they can be, great, everybody is happy. If they can't? We move to the refund/buyback stage. The arbitration window was originally scheduled to allow for 7 days, but we have exercised our right to reduce this window, and have done so by 3 days.

2. They fail to release anything. The agreement is invalidated, everybody gets refunded.

At the end of the day, our primary goal is to protect investors. We are not biased towards Syscoin, but we are giving them a window of opportunity to resolve the issues that occurred after launch.

[nomoreheroes7]

slex, just wanted to post that I agree with everything you've done so far. These measures are necessary to protect the investors, the devs, and the longterm health of the coin. Anyone demanding otherwise really doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

[kelvng105]

slex, just wanted to post that I agree with everything you've done so far. These measures are necessary to protect the investors, the devs, and the longterm health of the coin. Anyone demanding otherwise really doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

second this. .Thanks for posting nomoreheroes7

[slex]

Our agreement was in relation to an "all or nothing" scenario.

Either the developers release a working platform and get the coins, or they don't and investors get refunded. We have now moved in to the arbitration window of our agreement, and have imposed a 48 hour deadline to resolve the current problems. Had they released nothing before now, they would not have this window, the agreement would have been voided before now. The issues occurred after launch, and that is why they have an extension.

What if the people asking for refunds are less than the ones willing to wait for the devs to resolve issues past the 48 hours? 

In that scenario, we would have to seek legal counsel (and are planning to do so tomorrow) to see if the agreement can be amended while active, to allow for a partial refund policy based on investor demand.

[discodancer]

Any escrow process has a 3rd party that will arbitrarily decide the final outcome of the funds. That is our role in this scenario, we are the 3rd party with that power. That is where our discretion comes from, and based on general public sentiment across a wide range of social media; people seem very happy with this. That is the point of us. We make the final decision. If anything, 4 days is too short - but due to community outcry, this is the timeframe we are offering.

To be frank, if we were to stick to normal escrow terms - they would get 10 days. We are offering them 48 hours in light of what has happened so far, and their ongoing attempts to resolve these issues. We are not favoring anybody however, so please refrain from spreading false and inaccurate information.

Now this is getting tiring. I praise you actually not pulling the trigger and instead question me for spreading false information?

Lets do this the third time again with the frustration which has been part of this coin:

Where in the T&C does it mention 2-4-10 days of escrow mentioned in the T&C. A simple section number so and so would have sufficed. Given that you cant answer this straight up, I am sure there is no mention of it. Is there? Just pulling numbers out of your ass.
So stop with the bullshit about normal escrow terms. It is not like an unwritten samurai code which is followed but not written.

Our terms of service in relation to escrow services are not a matter of public record, they are done on a case by case basis with each party we enter in to an agreement with.

We decided on an arbitration window of 96 hours, in order to give the team to fix issues that popped up at launch in relation to the forking, etc. The original planned timeframe was 7 days, after discussions with the Syscoin team. We have reduced this window by exercising our right to do so.

This is our final say on this matter.

Let me get this straight. So what you are saying is if I were to ask you to escrow a deal for me to setup an ICO, you wouldn't share the T&C with all parties concerned? Specially if it concerns the general public? Well to that I can only say WOW!!! So there is no trust when it comes to general public buying anything from you, is there?

You really have a law degree or just making shit up? I don't believe there is any law which will support what you just said - escrow details not being shared with all parties.

GOD and here I was bashing danospehere alone. You guys are doing a great job. I hope no one even thinks of escrowing (or rather screwing others with you).

@Others - Read above and then sell if you are hoping any kind of fair arbitration from moolah. I am sure if things don't work out in 48hrs, they are going to pull another condition out of their "international arbitration" ass.

[welchy8764]

My experience in the software business tells me there needs to be time to resolve the issues. The process as well as code are broken. Everything related to this coins needs to halt and a fix to the process as well as code need to be done and tested. QA needs to occur with pools in order for the mining to begin without another issue. One more failure of this launch will be the last.
Most failed projects occur because process failed not software. Everyone wants this idea to succeed, so whats a day or 2? This should not be investor driven it should be process driven. Investors took a risk so they will have to wait and see if their reward will occur or not. I have not made profit on every investment i made. Matter of fact the crypto world is a very risky place to invest these days.

Hope it all works out(Which it will in the end). Its all the crap that happens while they are trying to concentrate on fixing the issue or issues that is a distraction. If I were them I would be ignoring all these forums and communicating to the people who are important to fixing this issue.

[awais3344]

After testing the other decentralized exchanges, the design they have does not work well for business, average users anyway, far too easy to make a mistake and lose money. I would never have an employee use one of their platforms, and if i ever do again, I will be much more careful with it.

The integrated marketplace for Syscoin appears the best "idiot proof" design, NXT is the worst and insta creates new accounts with any errors - insane! I bought more SYS after actually testing and seeing how problematic the others were. "Business on the Blockchain" has to be simple. This appears, to me, the best option for the moment, for having a chance to move beyond just a speculative tool for trading other speculative investments.

As for time it takes to get it right, if they can make it a huge success I can wait a few days.

+1

NXT, XCP and XCH look great on paper, but are fiddly at best, unusable for 99% of people (non-techies). This wallet uses a familiar codebase, and provides features that people will be far more comfortable using. Anybody complaining that they haven't fixed some international systemic issues within 48 hours of release of so much totally new code has quite obviously never released a large project on a very limited budget before... Anybody who claims that they have a huge budget is paying no attention to the fact that Moolah still hold their funds!

thefun thing with this one is that someon could setup a website where people's products that are listed on blockchain woul appear. and people can pay on page. next thing that syscoin developers discussed was ratings and eedbacks on blockchain. but i dont see it anywhere in the wallet yet

[slex]

Any escrow process has a 3rd party that will arbitrarily decide the final outcome of the funds. That is our role in this scenario, we are the 3rd party with that power. That is where our discretion comes from, and based on general public sentiment across a wide range of social media; people seem very happy with this. That is the point of us. We make the final decision. If anything, 4 days is too short - but due to community outcry, this is the timeframe we are offering.

To be frank, if we were to stick to normal escrow terms - they would get 10 days. We are offering them 48 hours in light of what has happened so far, and their ongoing attempts to resolve these issues. We are not favoring anybody however, so please refrain from spreading false and inaccurate information.

Now this is getting tiring. I praise you actually not pulling the trigger and instead question me for spreading false information?

Lets do this the third time again with the frustration which has been part of this coin:

Where in the T&C does it mention 2-4-10 days of escrow mentioned in the T&C. A simple section number so and so would have sufficed. Given that you cant answer this straight up, I am sure there is no mention of it. Is there? Just pulling numbers out of your ass.
So stop with the bullshit about normal escrow terms. It is not like an unwritten samurai code which is followed but not written.

Our terms of service in relation to escrow services are not a matter of public record, they are done on a case by case basis with each party we enter in to an agreement with.

We decided on an arbitration window of 96 hours, in order to give the team to fix issues that popped up at launch in relation to the forking, etc. The original planned timeframe was 7 days, after discussions with the Syscoin team. We have reduced this window by exercising our right to do so.

This is our final say on this matter.

Let me get this straight. So what you are saying is if I were to ask you to escrow a deal for me to setup an ICO, you wouldn't share the T&C with all parties concerned? Specially if it concerns the general public? Well to that I can only say WOW!!! So there is no trust when it comes to general public buying anything from you, is there?

You really have a law degree or just making shit up? I don't believe there is any law which will support what you just said - escrow details not being shared with all parties.

GOD and here I was bashing danospehere alone. You guys are doing a great job. I hope no one even thinks of escrowing (or rather screwing others with you).

@Others - Read above and then sell if you are hoping any kind of fair arbitration from moolah. I am sure if things don't work out in 48hrs, they are going to pull another condition out of their "international arbitration" ass.

Any escrow deal includes a mediation and arbitration period. We are currently in that period.

Our conditions in this window are final, there are no more extensions. Either they deliver, or we refund. It is that simple. That is a matter of public record. Investors can rest happy that no matter what happens, they will get back ICO value for their coins in the event of total failure.

[MickGhee]

so this is over?

what a shame

not a surprise just a shame

[discodancer]

Yes, but the devs are working on it, give them time! People can give Crypti weeks and can't give SYS team couple days?

You are missing the point. Crypti dint stick a non-working wallet to everyone and then disappeared for 12hrs. Its better to delay the product than to release a non working one. I for one would have been happier if that had been the case. Would I have moaned and bitched about it? Sure. But being unable to get out of a position which I dont want (read the wallets are still not working fine) is not something I want the syscoin developer to decide.

[CryptoJohn]

Stop cying for a refund!

If you marry a hot babe, and she turns out to have a few flaws would you cry for a divorce? NO.

Have some patience, things will work out. Go do some promotion instead, and let the devs work!

Says a guy who has never been married