[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[Trent Russell]

I had an idea about how CLAM with CLAMspeech could be used to have something like a decentralised reddit. It's not fully worked out but here's the idea:

Suppose tx has CLAMspeech of the form [20 byte hash][120 byte message]. The 20 byte hash could indicate the "parent" for the 120 byte message. (The 20 byte hashes would be RIPEMD160 of something.)

In some cases this 20 byte hash would indicate something like the 'subreddit'. For example, if someone wants to look at the latest post in the 'clamcoin' subreddit they would hash the string 'clamcoin' and then look for recent CLAMspeech that start with that hash.

In other cases the 20 byte hash would indicate that the comment is a reply to its parent (either a post or other comment). If an earlier tx was used to post or comment, then the txid can be hashed to give a 20 byte id for the post or comment. If a later CLAMspeech starts with this 20 byte hash then it's interpreted as a reply comment.

Viewing these posts/comments reddit-style could probably be built into the QT UI. It would probably also be good if there were a central website where people could read the posts/comments, but they would need to use clams to participate.

The 120 byte message length is probably too small for such an application. However, it could be liberalised by using 'sibling' hashes in addition to 'parent' hashes. 'Sibling' hashes could allow several CLAMspeech txs to be combined into one longer message.

There would also need to be ways to upvote and downvote, e.g., by sending clams to different addresses.

Do you think there would be much interest in this? I noticed many people were pushing for decentralised forums in the past couple of months due to the Bitcoin XT controversy.

[SaltyBastard]

I cannot figure out how to get the Bootstap.dat file I downloaded to be seen by Clamclient. I placed it in the same file folder as Wallet.dat...But the client didnt react to it

[dooglus]

Regarding the controversial comments, this was SuperClam's request from last week.

Issues concerning Just-Dice, JD rain bots, JD trivia bots, etc. should be taken to the Just-Dice thread.
Issues concerning ClamChecker should be taken to the ClamChecker thread.

Also, a bit of respect in the thread here, please.

Thanks!

I think if one party makes a negative comment about the other party, a good way for the other party to respond while satisfying this request is to post a reply saying something like "my response to this is in X thread" along with a link to the post with the response. This might move the argument out of this thread and also point people to the other relevant threads.

We moved the discussion to the ClamChecker thread, but then, days later, all my posts were deleted by BAC. Somewhat ironically the first post he deleted was me saying how it was cool that he allowed discussion on his thread rather than simply deleting opposing viewpoints.

These are the 4 deleted posts. I don't think any of them are offtopic, inaccurate, or rude: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4

[...]

There would also need to be ways to upvote and downvote, e.g., by sending clams to different addresses.

Do you think there would be much interest in this? I noticed many people were pushing for decentralised forums in the past couple of months due to the Bitcoin XT controversy.

Issue #221 talks about dynamic blocksizes and fees, and I think the idea is to remove the limit on CLAMspeech size, to allow the blockchain to be used to store arbitrary data, for a price.

I don't know how much interest there would be in a decentralised forum. The ad-funded centralised forum concept seems to be what everyone is comfortable using. It's hard to get people to switch, even from one centralised web forum to another.

I cannot figure out how to get the Bootstap.dat file I downloaded to be seen by Clamclient. I placed it in the same file folder as Wallet.dat...But the client didnt react to it

First off, you need to stop and restart the client before it will notice the bootstrap.dat file.

Secondly, take a look at this screenshot. See the "importing blocks" in the lower left corner? That means the client is processing the bootstrap.dat file. Do you see that?

Thirdly, you wrote "Bootstrap.dat". The filename should be all lowercase. I don't know if that actually matters in all operating systems, but it does in Linux. If it isn't being found, try renaming it to be all lowercase then restarting the client.

Finally, I just updated the bootstrap.dat file. See this post for the link. If you use the torrent link you should be able to update your existing bootstrap.dat file to the latest version without having to redownload the whole thing.

I hope that helps.

[Trent Russell]

We moved the discussion to the ClamChecker thread, but then, days later, all my posts were deleted by BAC. Somewhat ironically the first post he deleted was me saying how it was cool that he allowed discussion on his thread rather than simply deleting opposing viewpoints.

These are the 4 deleted posts. I don't think any of them are offtopic, inaccurate, or rude: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4

Ah, I didn't know that. Maybe if the issue comes up again, I'll make an unmoderated thread for the topic. Unless someone else does.

[BayAreaCoins]

We moved the discussion to the ClamChecker thread, but then, days later, all my posts were deleted by BAC. Somewhat ironically the first post he deleted was me saying how it was cool that he allowed discussion on his thread rather than simply deleting opposing viewpoints.

These are the 4 deleted posts. I don't think any of them are offtopic, inaccurate, or rude: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4

Ah, I didn't know that. Maybe if the issue comes up again, I'll make an unmoderated thread for the topic. Unless someone else does.

Please absolutely feel free to make a unmoderated thread if y'all want.  I already have a few unmodded threads that are actually outside the altcoin section due to my site dealing with Bitcoin as well.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1177746.0  or  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1177746.0

I removed the one dudes post because his fee % was inaccurate and I had requested he keep it updated or remove it.  

I did leave the accurate troll post on the first page.  The other stuff that I removed was inaccurate %'s and solved issues from me making sure that everyone using the service got what they were expecting.  I want to start my thread off over there on a positive nice vibe with accurate numbers.

Dooglus keep your kudos.  No shits are given on this end of your the computer for your approval.  If I wanted someones approval I'd do Paypal.

I had an idea about how CLAM with CLAMspeech could be used to have something like a decentralised reddit.

I totally love the idea.

[ajareselde]

Hate to break your troll fight here; but does anyone have an idea on the reason why the price dropped like 19% in 48 hours or so ?
Any known event that caused this, or just p&d action as usual ?!

[dooglus]

Hate to break your troll fight here; but does anyone have an idea on the reason why the price dropped like 19% in 48 hours or so ?
Any known event that caused this, or just p&d action as usual ?!

I think a change of subject is a good idea.

The most recent drop (within the last hour) is probably a result of someone winning a record high ~15k CLAMs on Just-Dice and dumping ~3k on the market. The previous drop (over the last few days) is probably the mystery digger, who seems to have stepped up the digging again:

[SerenaL]

Can i import bulk bitcoin addresses with a wallet.aes.json file?

[crazyivan]

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

[romjpn]

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus .
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

[crazyivan]

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus .
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?

[cryptonit]

Price seems to be sinking a bit? Any thoughts why?

2 message above, you have an answer from Dooglus .
Clam is still pretty solid as an alt but is greatly impacted by the "digger".
Anyway, as a "whale" investor (small whale with ~2200 CLAMS now) I'm hodling for the moment.

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?

so in fact clams rolled out to all BTC LTC and DOGE addresses which had above dust amount of coins at date xy 2014

so a exchange with a lot people deposit on lot different addresses would have a shitload clams

by invest some time and scripts u could dig for them in a wallet backup from that timeframe

somehow this create the feeling clams was invented by some exchange owner

[nelisky]

I've been trying out CLAM and while keeping the client always open (on OSX) with an expected reward time of 17~22 hours, I got 3 CLAMs since the 21st, so 7 days ago. The thing is, I got the 3 within 12 hours and haven't got any since. I know variation is expected, but how much of it is normal?

[chilly2k]

I've been trying out CLAM and while keeping the client always open (on OSX) with an expected reward time of 17~22 hours, I got 3 CLAMs since the 21st, so 7 days ago. The thing is, I got the 3 within 12 hours and haven't got any since. I know variation is expected, but how much of it is normal?

   I think it's normal, at least normal for you and I.  I seem to get stakes in spurts.  I'll have very good days, and very bad days, but over the long term it all levels out.  Some days I can get 10 stakes, and other days 0.  So I would think that having less coins would make it more variable. 

   Also I can have 2-3 stakes in an hour then go 24 hours with nothing.   

[dooglus]

It s so strange you all talk about that mysterious whale. What proof do you have of his existence, I m sure there s something since lots of people talk about it.
An address? Anything? What exactly points out this is a single person and not a group or even a market trend?

Check the CLAM client's debug.log for the word DIG:

Code:

$ tail -c 100k ~/.clam/debug.log | grep DIG
2015-09-28 14:43:29 DIG: 76499c68e6122729f20703e52e3e49407e81e3177b6f821f45d5e33376c2cb09:250 xVafiaGDxPYMQTgkk5K76Mx6Q7MAjHteTA from block 1968
2015-09-28 14:45:54 DIG: 279fd93345e2c4ecd2f7ef57bd9ba7d088c58c4478599ea57fa8f68ce349abf8:124 xDoqb7JWKsfm5XXqUmWcxKgZEGUpJcWnfz from block 799
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:297 xNxA6zvmhVZFZQS4tr8qwxm7DEiTCLHTXz from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:60 xBFnLQwAPdqQ8TrHTATxvgRVgvSQyXbNQ5 from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:129 xPzR94sV24wp2n8pFyfT558PTtEd8sRn9q from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:291 xCoru5MtyB21mLu2yB5bePr7tri8C38gw1 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:330 xL17M6JQoNNQa5M4mw2GWHTMa97dQbQuQH from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:164 xNKc8WbbLq1714QFLTdHbweviBcRUrV4po from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:73 xSEkWmSh2MJiZB3HTMBFMucLjZcgBvnuo1 from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:131 xKv4HZMUnKeT1YCDFpJ24UP8PbJevMeUeu from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:14 xQkY9Woic1ahDE83UY7DTxuUfm8L5McbYo from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:05:50 DIG: 1f9e304d3a9d1ec947d1c9b62d409799cc553412d11cbce2249a7bf80163d6d2:191 xJXMKMxRygjSPe8MUY6D15H3Na1HBSXn3T from block 7624
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:249 xMmUpcEruwApSJEW4zYt4msz1xwkzEtVU4 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:221 xGuiSrLmhShJqoDjt389TEzV239znqG1fV from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:80 xMtjKtozyZSGojPZtDxKj7xhXPY6XoBfvU from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:232 xWVPvxAVhCBCRSbRagvyYVE4bTomKNHnAU from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:85 xR3iTyf5hbFu84PfvW3UUyZKEurMQTg2dn from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:173 xDM4TbQspZiMUYBwd2jRzgVyptwgVsHUJb from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:331 xQCtUxXtiHibfgtcLJrVuL4U12P19ZM2Ek from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:259 xVhZwJKje6U2iKaH7UwhEJbq8KU8qVpQrD from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:253 xDAJfQ1otSRYKtgyqDx2peRUGHFVz3hH2h from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:11:28 DIG: 662039ba06948c60848b683c259d311471c7eb0214f23ba29348a87ce24d08aa:234 xJoQ3UadEg5pzqWr9FPbVXWxvrUrHvkqH5 from block 7623
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:212 x91TLK7rUDaDwvKMtSWPQkLvPFf3MU7Wad from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:349 xL9FVF6h3yrXVKMukJB4Zea1tVaGBsCd9d from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:316 xFUCY3DGDoD3uYKVtR7km1Xr8hHWuMYGyG from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: a17f8fc99ed8ae1e21fffd1a14603722977fc63e6d1eceb76876875a60b465e7:219 xC53XmHBEaVn8JNsrtU2q2SJhRxjYRJKti from block 7621
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:309 xEobw41PNR7BdbCuzZvN8ep7F989wwZyE3 from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:141 xNVSMyQaVs3SRVkJyDeEB9CKZsg12DKW8M from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:256 xCFjXBnBP1383ueWYEnexDo3Qt1H77QC6k from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:299 xRwFbbKod2W6NJvDFeeBDmfvQui1ciPC5c from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:14 x8QHi5JZ6htzC3WhAGnbgyrgfYZ6TnUYL8 from block 7622
2015-09-28 15:16:00 DIG: 89a0ead966fad7b7364bb4fdf1b7f2bdeffaac60d6d7dfa064692ff04fec1fed:45 xJLzcNccAM6MVptJLe8UL5a9knTj9mMzyN from block 7622

Notice the last number on each line. It is the block in which the dug CLAM was created. They are being dug up in order of that number. That makes it impossible that it is a market trend, and almost certain that it is a single person, or at least a very coordinated team of people.

[marketorder]

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year? I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year

[dooglus]

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year?

Right now, if I run "clamd getinfo" it tells me:

    "moneysupply" : 15332791.13048927,
    "digsupply" : 441211.87080348,
    "stakesupply" : 558389.72641731,
    "activesupply" : 999601.59722079,

The initial distribution sent 4.60545574 CLAM to each of 3,208,032 addresses, making an initial total distribution of:

    >>> 4.60545574 * 3208032
    14774449.38850368

ie. 14.8 million, of which only 441k have so far been dug up.

Since then, 558389.72641731 CLAM was created by staking, making a total money supply of:

    >>> 14774449.38850368 + 558389.72641731
    15332839.11492099

That's 48 CLAMs higher than the reported money supply:

    >>> 15332839.11492099 - 15332791.13048927
    47.98443172

I don't quite understand why - but maybe it's related to how the developers burned staking rewards which were generated when getting the blockchain started.

Anyway, in summary, there are over 14 million CLAMs still waiting to be dug up. It's theoretically possible (although very unlikely) that the vast majority of them could all be dug up today and enter the active supply.

I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year

It depends what you mean by the "available supply".

The total money supply, currently a little over 15 million, will go up by 1 CLAM each time a block is found, or about 525k per year.

The "active" money supply, currently just under 1 million, and defined as the "dig supply" plus the "stake supply" goes up by 4.6 CLAMs every time one of the initial distribution outputs is moved for the first time, and that is quite unpredictable.

Here's a chart showing the 'digsupply' and 'stakesupply' since launch, with annotations:



I may have some of the details wrong, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who remembers better.

[marketorder]

When I say Available Supply I'm referring to activesupply

Since I bought some Clams to buy and hold the Available Supply as shown on Coinmarketcap greatly effects the current market price of Clams, that's why I have an interest in the Available Supply in the near future 

I have a few question about the total supply of Clams. Now is there 15 million coins already waiting to be claimed and will that be added on top of the 500,000 coins to be mined per year? How much will the available supply of Clams go up per year?

Right now, if I run "clamd getinfo" it tells me:

    "moneysupply" : 15332791.13048927,
    "digsupply" : 441211.87080348,
    "stakesupply" : 558389.72641731,
    "activesupply" : 999601.59722079,

The initial distribution sent 4.60545574 CLAM to each of 3,208,032 addresses, making an initial total distribution of:

    >>> 4.60545574 * 3208032
    14774449.38850368

ie. 14.8 million, of which only 441k have so far been dug up.

Since then, 558389.72641731 CLAM was created by staking, making a total money supply of:

    >>> 14774449.38850368 + 558389.72641731
    15332839.11492099

That's 48 CLAMs higher than the reported money supply:

    >>> 15332839.11492099 - 15332791.13048927
    47.98443172

I don't quite understand why - but maybe it's related to how the developers burned staking rewards which were generated when getting the blockchain started.

Anyway, in summary, there are over 14 million CLAMs still waiting to be dug up. It's theoretically possible (although very unlikely) that the vast majority of them could all be dug up today and enter the active supply.

I just want to make sure if I buy clams the Available supply wont go up by millions in 1 year

It depends what you mean by the "available supply".

The total money supply, currently a little over 15 million, will go up by 1 CLAM each time a block is found, or about 525k per year.

The "active" money supply, currently just under 1 million, and defined as the "dig supply" plus the "stake supply" goes up by 4.6 CLAMs every time one of the initial distribution outputs is moved for the first time, and that is quite unpredictable.

Here's a chart showing the 'digsupply' and 'stakesupply' since launch, with annotations:



I may have some of the details wrong, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who remembers better.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

Is just-dice the only CLAM casino out there? If not then can somebody point me to a list of CLAM casinos. Thanks.

[beepboopbeep]

I'm about to dig up some clams as soon as the blockchain updates for me. Do you guys think I should hold or sell?